Originally posted by SPACEMANRICK
New B&W serie 800 !!!
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Originally posted by wettouIs it worth upgrading!
It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.
In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.
Since I am stuck with very few options for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs possible, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously providing any gains for the effort."Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."- Bottom
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Originally posted by RebelManIt is to early to tell but I know that I will not be making any changes to my system whatsoever. It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.
In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.
Since I am stuck with very few possibilities for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously seeing any gains for the effort.
I acquired one and could not be happier :TFarming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
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Originally posted by RebelManIt is to early to tell but I know that I will not be making any changes to my system whatsoever.
It may not be readily apparent but B&W is implicitly going back to their roots with the new series. The 800s were never intended to entertain the Home Theater (HT) enthusiast.
In the early to mid 90's market trends and demanding consumers pushed B&W into the high performance HT market. At the time B&W didn't have a dedicated system in the pipeline so they adapted the existing series to fill in the gap. Since then B&W has had time to learn what it was going to take to make a high-end HT system work well. They also had time to learn how to adapt to various domestically tranquil environments without incurring significant disruptions to making good sound. These motivations are what encouraged B&W to breath life into what has now become the CT and CI series of HT products. While not the top of the line 800s these dedicated HT products are now more capable than ever of providing decent 2CH performance without breaking the bank and/or ones lifestyle. The new 800 series is really only intended for the most discriminating listeners that want to milk the best from their stereo systems. That’s how it was intended from the start and is becoming more so once again.
Since I am stuck with very few options for integrating a high performance 2CH and MCH/HT system into the same space with the fewest tradeoffs possible, there is just no way the new series can be adapted to my environment while simultaneously providing any gains for the effort.
It seems that for us users of the HTM1D there is no upgrade path offered if you care that is. I mean changing my 800Ds would result in an unmatched HTM1D that would be nice if B&W offered new drivers and crossover but yeah....dream on.- Bottom
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i remembered i read it somewhere that the chief desigher went to Japan and saw a lot of the Japanese user took off the plastic bullet and replaced them with a solid copper CNC machined bullet. Those copper bullet was not cheap, but Japanese people were sware by them.
the designer found it interesting and bought couple of them back to UK, and found there were indeed some sounic improvement. it reduce the turbulance air sound of midrange. plus, the sound is more focused and more solid.
b&w then include a solid bullet in avery new (and now old) D series.
the signnature diamond goes even further with air chanber at the bottom of the bullet to help guiding away the air. plus, it is longer with a polished apperance.
Originally posted by 1oldguyIs that an aluminum bullet in the mid-range?Wondering if it is, would B&W sell them for those desiring them?It's about the only thing I like of the new revision.
I read in a post that B&W admitted that the aluminum bullet did improve the midrange sound.But couldn't explain why.- Bottom
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i would think HTM4 Diamond match better with Signature Diamond. both are 2 way speaker. with similier sensibility.
have you try DB1 sub? I haven't heard one yet, but i would think it is a better match for Signature Diamond and 800 series.
Originally posted by ljs1228Hi there and Happy New Year to Everyone!
I have a set of Signature Diamond Speakers and am purchasing another set for my surrounds. I was intending on using this as a 4.1 system but am wondering now, with the addition of the gloss black finish, if the HTM2D would not be a welcome addition for a 5.1 system? The finish of my Signature Diamond is the wakame. Do you think that the HTM2D would look/sound good ?
Thanks
ljs1228
P.S. My sub is a PV1 and I am also considering getting a second one of those as well. The pictures of my system are in the B and W site on page 58 or so.- Bottom
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I'm curious about the quad-mag tweeter, considering that field strength is inversely proportional to squaring of the distance differential. Especially since tweeters only have a 3mm coil length space to work with.
I'm not liking the smaller circular flowport all that much.
Looks like they reduced the size of the dustcap on the woofers, to reduce the mass?
The metal rings look good in black, but in wood finish it just doesn't mix IMO.
The metal phase-plug should be a polished-alu/chromed/etc design like the Sig-Di.
What I was hoping for... :B
1) A return of some new hand-painted Signature finishes.
2) Tri-woofers for the 904D
3) A tri-wiring option for all floorstanders
4) 4-way design for 903D, 902D with mid-bass and woofer combo, silver-coated neodymium phase plugs
5) A true piston-mid for the 900D with Nautilus tube, and external defeatable cross-overs with XLR & unbalanced filter-package option.- Bottom
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Originally posted by dan87951I really like the new rosenut finish. Reminds me of the red cherry finish that was offered for the Nautilus line!
And Rebelman also clearified this.
Originally posted by RebelManAs I have stated previously the veneers are procured from IDENTICAL sources and only one factory moved. The other remained.
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Originally posted by Antusi would think HTM4 Diamond match better with Signature Diamond. both are 2 way speaker. with similier sensibility.
have you try DB1 sub? I haven't heard one yet, but i would think it is a better match for Signature Diamond and 800 series.
The reason I am suggesting it will be a nightmare is that the sensitivity measurement is not that accurate, because sensitivity is averaged from the whole frequency range 20hz to 20khz, and the way it is averaged is not ideally done.
One of the magazines last year covered this subject and thankfully or funny enough they used the Signature diamond as their primary example.
The difference from say 10khz to 15khz and 1khz to 4khz is in region of 3db to 5db for the Sig diamond, even then this is not smooth and has many peaks and troughs through the whole frequency range.
It is more than likely this sensitivity varies a fair bit between Sig diamonds and the various 800 series.
ljs1228, you could email B&W support and see what they come back with as the best solution.
Cheers
Orb- Bottom
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I am loving the new 800 series...for silver rings, silver/chrome plated plugs, new air flow port...Bowers&Wilkins name insted of B&W in the bottom. the whole package is very nice. Keeping price out of consideration for now...they are extremely desirable..more than the current range I would say .. assuming they at least sound the same or better than the current series.
802D.... :drool:
AndySystem 1: B&W: 803S; Classe CAP-2100, CDP-102, Chord: Anthem 2 interconnect, Epic super twin cables
System 2: B&W: 685, Rotel: RA-05; Denon 3910; Denon DAB 1800 tuner; Merlin Choppin & Atlas Equator MKII interconnects.- Bottom
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I did ask the B&W rep why they did not offer an active crossover option on the 800 series. He said that it ultimately came down to catering to the lowest common denominator - even at the 800 Diamond price range. Those are my words, not his.I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...- Bottom
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For the massive price increase and to help attract current 804 owners (N and S) that still care to have a smaller footprint and to provide more of an upgrade to the speaker, this is what the 804D should of looked like IMO:
Keep the nice small and skinny footprint (don't base it off the 803S - too close to the 803D footprint) and add another woofer for three per cabinet just like the 803D had over the 803S. That would of made the 804S to 804D more worthwhile IMO. I think for people like me with the N804 or 804S would want more of an upgrade to the speaker than just adding the diamond domes considering the dramatic price increase of the model...
I know, kinda moot for some people who just crossover to their powered sub(s) anyway (which I do). But for the price increase they could, and should of, provided a little more of an upgrade inline with how the 803S was to the 803D model to give a little more ooomph for total 2-channel purists who just want a simple high performance 2-channel/2 speaker system in a small footprint. Just tell me my photoshopped mini 803D doesn't look sharp? lean, and mean. :twisted:- Bottom
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Picked up the HTM1D today and I talked to my dealer about what he thinks about the new line. He is not thrilled, they will make small changes and now the dealers have to liquidate there stock of the old series and repurchase the line again. I told him sorry I don't feel the need to up grade my 800D's and he replied of coarse not how much better can the new ones sound. I can see why he is a little harsh with the way business is going for luxury items like high end audio.I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at death...
Lou- Bottom
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I think at the end of the day it's about our perception.Which is that the newest is the greatest.Those new woofers certainly don't make feel all warm and giddy.The out going series of the 800 line has a much more robust look.OF course they would have the new woofers designed ever so slightly different.It's just got to be better right?Then it only makes sense to change the number of screws or placement so it can't be a straight retrofit for existing speakers.IMHO it's more smoke and mirrors so you feel what you have isn't good enough anymore,so buy more.Think about it.
As for me I'm not buying it and I'm not buying into it.A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.- Bottom
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Originally posted by 1oldguyI think at the end of the day it's about our perception.Which is that the newest is the greatest.Those new woofers certainly don't make feel all warm and giddy.The out going series of the 800 line has a much more robust look.OF course they would have the new woofers designed ever so slightly different.It's just got to be better right?Then it only makes sense to change the number of screws or placement so it can't be a straight retrofit for existing speakers.IMHO it's more smoke and mirrors so you feel what you have isn't good enough anymore,so buy more.Think about it. As for me I'm not buying it and I'm not buying into it.Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
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Curious, I am not liking the piano black. I would like to upgrade my fronts and center but there is no black ash. Wonder if Rosenut for fronts and center would look ok with black ash sub and other speakers (rear and surrounds). Thoughts?- Bottom
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I think that would look fine...Rosenut works best with the black ash imho...I had black 805s as rears and it let them actually blend in more...- Bottom
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Originally posted by KahunaCanuckI think that would look fine...I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive safely at death...
Lou- Bottom
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This may be some dumb questions but want to confirm as I am considering buying new 802 diamonds before I have heard them (I guess no one has heard them at this point though). I also have the opportunity to buy a current 802D as well. So I am trying to decide which way to go.
Cost is not an issue as I am wanting the best speaker. Four questions:
- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?
I realize that B&W would only be putting out a speaker they considered better, but I am wondering if they have ever missed the mark from the consumers perspective....- Bottom
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Originally posted by KahunaCanuck5.1 B&W 800Ds,HTM2D, 803Ds, SVS PC13 Subs x2, SVS AS EQ1, Classe SSP800, Mc501s x 2, MC303, Denon BD3800, JVC RS2 PJ, Dalite 119" Screen, Cat Cables throughout.
2.1 B&W 805s, REL 305 Sub, Musical Fidelity KW500 Int, KW25 Transport & DAC, Marantz TT15S1, Wadia 170 Ipod Dock, Cat Cables.- Bottom
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Originally posted by HighrollerCurious, I am not liking the piano black. I would like to upgrade my fronts and center but there is no black ash. Wonder if Rosenut for fronts and center would look ok with black ash sub and other speakers (rear and surrounds). Thoughts?I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...- Bottom
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Originally posted by HighrollerThis may be some dumb questions but want to confirm as I am considering buying new 802 diamonds before I have heard them (I guess no one has heard them at this point though). I also have the opportunity to buy a current 802D as well. So I am trying to decide which way to go.
Cost is not an issue as I am wanting the best speaker. Four questions:
- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?
I realize that B&W would only be putting out a speaker they considered better, but I am wondering if they have ever missed the mark from the consumers perspective....
Overall, I think if you haven't invested in the "D" line, then there is little reason why you shouldn't consider the "Diamonds". The 802 Diamond is only $1K more than the 802D, so price isn't really the issue. Unless you really dislike the silver rings, wanted black ash, or perhaps wanted a perfect timbre-match with the HTM1D, I would say the 802 Diamond would be a safe bet, and would probably hold its resale value a bit better given that it's a brand-new model.
That said, we really won't know until we've HEARD the 802 Diamond. Who knows, it could be the "changes" are not to everyone's liking or there has been some fundamental modifications to the sound. The safest route for you would be to listen to them first, ideally in an A/B test with the 802Ds, and make your decision from there. I'm assuming A/B testing won't be difficult in the coming months when the dealers still have the 802Ds in stock.
One other issue is whether you are building a stereo or multi-channel system. The Diamond range has far less options for centers and surrounds, and the minimum you will be spending for a pair of surrounds has now increased to $5K. Maybe not an issue for you, but something to consider nevertheless.- Bottom
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Originally posted by Highroller- If the prices for the current 802D and the new 802 Diamond were exactly the same (theoretically) would there ever be a reason to buy the current 802D over the new 802 Diamond?
- Has there ever been a speaker upgrade with B&W that was viewed as not as good as the previous model?
- Is there any possibility the new 802 Diamond would not sound better than the current 802D?
- Is it better to go with the current 802D that has the strong track record, or the new 802 Diamond that hasn't been heard?Kal Rubinson
_______________________________
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round- Bottom
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Originally posted by Kal RubinsonUntil we have heard the new ones for a while, no one can really answer your questions.
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond
I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
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Originally posted by wettouKal, When are you getting your evaluation speakers
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond
I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?- Bottom
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My overall thoughts so far.
Love the new grill design, getting rid of the small grill holes in the cabinet, as minute as that is, IMO its HUGE for the looks of the speaker.
I like the cleaner look of the new mounting holes of the speakers, however I like the "beafier" look of the older dust caps.
I like how the port area is "cleaned up" looks a bit nicer for the price of the speaker. I always thought the "tear drop" looked cheap. Too much plastic on speakers that cost over 1k each.
Silver rings. 50/50. Could live with em, could live without them. Dont really care either way. I think they look good, and would still look good without them.
No B&W "tag" on the front. Hrm.. I kinda like the B&W, simple, classic. Not trying to be "classy" like it looks now. But dont hate the way it is now.
Piano Black option? YES! Love the OPTION to have it. Many have been asking about it for years and its finally here! There have been a few threads about it in the past, "wish they offered it" etc. Glad they do! I think piano black looks GREAT! Sure keeping them looking good is more work, yea it wont be for everyone or every situation, but when its done right it doesnt look bad. This isnt a "cheap" piano black like the box store sell, I am sure it looks just as good as the marlan heads of the Nautilus series.
Price increase? If its anywhere near what people are saying, I say boo! 20k 802s. Thats kinda crazy IMO. The good thing? I suppose it helps keep market value of the older lines.
Anytime there is a change made to a loved line in anything, you wont please everyone, but yet I am suprised to read about alot of the nitpiking that is going on.
Of course, all the above is my opinion. As expected, yours will vary.Last edited by Race Car Driver; 14 January 2010, 03:58 Thursday.B&W- Bottom
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Originally posted by wettouKal, When are you getting your evaluation speakers
- 802 Diamond,
- 800 Diamond
I was always curious about the fact that you evaluated 800D and 802D and bought 802Ds ?Kal Rubinson
_______________________________
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round- Bottom
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Originally posted by Race Car DriverLove the new grill design, getting rid of the small grill holes in the cabinet, as minute as that is, IMO its HUGE for the looks of the speaker.
I like the cleaner look of the new mounting holes of the speakers, however I like the "beafier" look of the older dust caps.
I like how the port area is "cleaned up" looks a bit nicer for the price of the speaker. I always thought the "tear drop" looked cheap. Too much plastic on speakers that cost over 1k each.
Silver rings. 50/50. Could live with em, could live without them. Dont really care either way. I think they look good, and would still look good without them.
No B&W "tag" on the front. Hrm.. I kinda like the B&W, simple, classic. Not trying to be "classy" like it looks now. But dont hate the way it is now.
Piano Black option? YES! Love the OPTION to have it. Many have been asking about it for years and its finally here! There have been a few threads about it in the past, "wish they offered it" etc. Glad they do! I think piano black looks GREAT! Sure keeping them looking good is more work, yea it wont be for everyone or every situation, but when its done right it doesnt look bad. This isnt a "cheap" piano black like the box store sell, I am sure it looks just as good as the marlan heads of the Nautilus series.
Price increase? If its anywhere near what people are saying, I say boo! 20k 802s. Thats kinda crazy IMO. The good thing? I suppose it helps keep market value of the older lines.
Anytime there is a change made to a loved line in anything, you wont please everyone, but yet I am suprised to read about alot of the nitpiking that is going on.
Of course, all the above is my opinion. As expected, yours will vary.
I do believe, however, that I will continue to enjoy my current setup even more now...glad I was able to 'complete' it before the new line (and substantial cost increase) was introduced. FYI, my setup includes the 805S, HTM4S, and SCMS -- all in Natural Cherry.Brad- Bottom
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For those who play guitar/bass there is usually two types of coatings applied.One is nitrocellulose the other polyurethane.While some others are bare wood.
The two types of plastics used do indeed change the character of the tone.Which is why some go bare wood so the sound inst hampered.
My concern if I were interested in the new 800 series covered in piano black(in other words plastic) would be the effect however slightly,would make in the listening experience.I'm sure it would be a small departure from sound in it's purity, but none the less the motto of B&W is,"to loose the least" isn't being strictly adhered to.
Based on the use of this shinny plastic I would have to go either rosenut or cherry if I were buying at this point,based on puriety of sound.Not going to happen,but wanted to throw it out there for those who are the verge of making a new purchase.A Man should never Gamble more than he can stand to loose.- Bottom
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Just talked to my dealer here i Denmark. He said Piano and Rosewood finishes would be available in march, and cherry in may. May is a looong looong way awayB&W 800 Diamond, B&W805S, B&W DB1, Classe SSP 800, DIY Icepower ASX2 600W monos, Ayre QB9, JPlay.- Bottom
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I am really glad I also snatched a pair of SCMS just before they disappear since this was the only speaker in the 800 series that is suitable for Dolby Prologic IIz or height channel use in general.
Right now as someone else pointed out there is not surround speaker in the line and even if one does not care about the cost of 805D, still they are not suitable for wall mounting.
Should I suppose that B&W does not care for HT anymore? I am not space limited and I use 803Ds (4X) as my surrounds but if someone needs wall mounted speakers?- Bottom
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Originally posted by JargonGRI am not space limited and I use 803Ds (4X) as my surrounds but if someone needs wall mounted speakers?Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
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Originally posted by 1oldguyFor those who play guitar/bass there is usually two types of coatings applied.One is nitrocellulose the other polyurethane.While some others are bare wood.
The two types of plastics used do indeed change the character of the tone.Which is why some go bare wood so the sound inst hampered.
My concern if I were interested in the new 800 series covered in piano black(in other words plastic) would be the effect however slightly,would make in the listening experience.I'm sure it would be a small departure from sound in it's purity, but none the less the motto of B&W is,"to loose the least" isn't being strictly adhered to.
these speakers however are designed not to resonate at all as resonation will color the sound taking away from its purity. if the new coating were to have any effect other then aesthetics witch I highly doubt it does, it would be for the better assuming it added damping to the enclosure.- Bottom
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Originally posted by JargonGRHehe yes the HTM1D and I love. I am using a projector and I didn't want the screen that high as to allow for an 800D hence the HTM1D. Nonetheless, I think I am done with speakers for some years to come.Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower- Bottom
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Originally posted by WelshOneIs there any info on the new sub at all please?
KalKal Rubinson
_______________________________
"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round- Bottom
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Originally posted by WelshOneIs there any info on the new sub at all please?
An idea on UK pricing would be great?
Thanks- Bottom
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Originally posted by Mark-n-bI emailed B&W some weeks ago asking that very question (and UK availability), and would you believe I have lost the email! However I *think* they said it would be about £3,500.Panasonic TC-P65VT30
Onkyo Pro PR-SC5508 | M2Tech Young DAC | Emotiva XPA-1 (x3), XPA-2
Oppo BDP-93 | DirecTV HR23-700 HD-DVR | Pioneer PL-670 Turntable
Sony Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii | Apple TV 2, Mac Mini (iTunes Server), iPad
B&W 804S, HTM3S, CWM DS8 | SVS PB12-NSD | Denon AH-D2000 Headphones
Tripp Lite HT1210ISOCTR Power Conditioner, SMART1000LCD UPS System
My Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Setup
Next Upgrade: Cables- Bottom
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