Welp.. Had to pick my fathers jaw off the ground tonight (more 685 awesomeness)

**ShadowZA** · 13 July 2009, 02:26 Monday

Awesome! That is what's great about this hobby. You experiment a bit and come up with improvements. You might also want to play around with room acoustic treatments such as bass traps in the corners & stuff like that ... could be in for some more good surprises.

Keep on enjoyng. :T

**emig5m** · 14 July 2009, 21:32 Tuesday

FST midrange wins hands down.

Well I borrowed some stands for the 685's from my local B&W dealer today because the other night I just sat the 685's on top of the 683 and we where listening to the 685's standing up and not sitting in a chair. I wanted to get the proper stands and try listening seated and compare back and forth to the 683. Well I spent at least three hours comparing them and every time the 683 beat out the 685 - both where crossed over at 80Hz to a Sunfire Signature EQ. The FST mids make all the difference and the difference is easily noticeable swapping back and forth in the same listening session. Both sounded seamlessly integrated with the sub - the 685 only took one click down in level on the pre-amp to match (they must be slightly less efficient.)

I think the 685's just catch you by surprise because they're so small and so un-intimidating looking but the clarity takes you most of the way and unless you compare back and forth in the same listening session you might be fooled that they're just as good. But I'm glad I spent a fair amount of time comparing back and forth - the difference in the mids is so easily noticeable. The FST is much more clear and open. The bass problem I was talking about where I thought that the 685 cured it was actually me running the sub just a little too hot because when I initially plugged in the 685's with the new sub and heard the bass was too loud out of the sub that made me go through and recalibrate the sub.

But anyhow, if I have the ability to easily hear the difference between the mid driver in the 685/684 and the 683 I wonder if I could hear a difference from the aluminum dome tweeter to the diamond in the 803D? Actually I'd really like to at least try the 804S in home to hear if there's another noticeable jump in performance from the 600 to 800, but that's a different story, heh. :E

**Tweir** · 14 July 2009, 22:25 Tuesday

Off topic a little but the CM-1's do that for a lot people unfamiliar with the brand.
They can not believe the sound coming out of that little speaker.

**Glenee** · 15 July 2009, 08:45 Wednesday

I lived with a set of 805s and a Jl Audio F112 for quite a while after the sale of my 802D's. I worked very hard at making them sound as good as possible. That was one wonderful set-up. I could of been very happy with that set-up for a very long time. $ for $ I thought it was one of the best Audio set-up's I have ever had and I have had a few since 1969. I also ended up with the Sub in a slightly Off center position.

**kmcheng** · 15 July 2009, 14:50 Wednesday

Originally posted by emig5m

But anyhow, if I have the ability to easily hear the difference between the mid driver in the 685/684 and the 683 I wonder if I could hear a difference from the aluminum dome tweeter to the diamond in the 803D? Actually I'd really like to at least try the 804S in home to hear if there's another noticeable jump in performance from the 600 to 800, but that's a different story, heh. :E

You will absolutely hear a difference. At the very least, you will absolutely think that you hear a difference.

The jump from 685 to 805s surprised me. The 805 sounds open, effortless and has a lot of depth.

The jump from 805S to 803D was less dramatic. There are more bass authority, the dialogs are clearer from the 803D. However, there was a lot of bass from the 805S already, and the dialogs were also crystal clear on the 805S. I am also using two subs. I think the advantages of the 803D are more apparent when you play soprano-heavy materials. The hi's sound more natural and more life-like with the diamond tweeters.

The problem with all these is that once you are down the path of the 800-series, it becomes very tempting to slip down the numbers: 805S -> 804S -> 803S -> 803D -> 802D etc. So you may as well just pick your end point and get there on your first jump. It will be more economical that way.

**emig5m** · 15 July 2009, 19:27 Wednesday

Originally posted by kmcheng

You will absolutely hear a difference. At the very least, you will absolutely think that you hear a difference.

The jump from 685 to 805s surprised me. The 805 sounds open, effortless and has a lot of depth.

The jump from 805S to 803D was less dramatic. There are more bass authority, the dialogs are clearer from the 803D. However, there was a lot of bass from the 805S already, and the dialogs were also crystal clear on the 805S. I am also using two subs. I think the advantages of the 803D are more apparent when you play soprano-heavy materials. The hi's sound more natural and more life-like with the diamond tweeters.

The problem with all these is that once you are down the path of the 800-series, it becomes very tempting to slip down the numbers: 805S -> 804S -> 803S -> 803D -> 802D etc. So you may as well just pick your end point and get there on your first jump. It will be more economical that way.

Well with the 685/683 the difference in the mids is definitely not "thinking" there is a difference, heh. The jump from a non-FST speaker to one with the FST in the 800 isn't that much difference? My end point would probably be a used set of 804S's. Although the deal I can get on a used set of 803D's locally ($5500) is quite tempting, heh. But the line has to be drawn somewhere and I only feel comfortable letting go of the cash amount of a used set of 804S's even though I have the cash for the 803D.

**Glenee** · 16 July 2009, 07:37 Thursday

Buy the 803D's at that price and LAFF a little at all of us that wish we could of started there. In my thinking this is a No Brainer. You may never have that chance again. Do It, Do It, Do It, Do It. If you don't buy the 803D's at that price, I can guarantee you will spend much more money down the line just to get to the point you have the opprotunity to get to now.

**ray5** · 16 July 2009, 09:17 Thursday

Originally posted by Glenee

Buy the 803D's at that price and LAFF a little at all of us that wish we could of started there. In my thinking this is a No Brainer. You may never have that chance again. Do It, Do It, Do It, Do It. If you don't buy the 803D's at that price, I can guarantee you will spend much more money down the line just to get to the point you have the opprotunity to get to now.

I agree. I started the same place but eventually got the 802D. Now I don't feel I need to upgrade(at least not yet!). I know for a fact that had I gone for something else I would have been looking already. So if you can swing it go for it. They are without a doubt awesome speakers.
Ray

**emig5m** · 20 July 2009, 01:19 Monday

Originally posted by Glenee

Buy the 803D's at that price and LAFF a little at all of us that wish we could of started there. In my thinking this is a No Brainer. You may never have that chance again. Do It, Do It, Do It, Do It. If you don't buy the 803D's at that price, I can guarantee you will spend much more money down the line just to get to the point you have the opprotunity to get to now.

The guy emailed me today and said I could have them for $5000 becuase he want's to avoid dealing with shipping. Well I drove a 4 hour round trip today to get the 803D with cash in hand and walked away because I didn't like the sound of them. My 600 series system sounds way better. How the hell a $1500 speaker could beat out a $9000 one I don't know, but it was poor enough sound to walk away even with the amazing deal I was offered. I'm really in utter disappointment.

I was really psyched to get the 800 series Diamond in immaculate condition like brand new for such a amazing price....what happened here?

I don't know what was going on, maybe room/speaker positioning? He allowed me to play with EQ and setup on the electronics side and pick any CD's he had and put the bass plugs in but refused to move the speakers around. They sounded very unbalanced to me. Too much bass energy that clouded the mid and high detail (like my past experience with the Legacy Focus with too many bass drivers IMO) and the mids where too laid back.

I'm glad I got it off my mind though... But still I'm in utter disappointment. The fine detail and clarity that I can get out of my 685's totally mops the floor of this guys 803D with a Classe amp pushing it? Wow...

I really wish I could of played with speaker placement as they where directly up against the back wall....

**Glenee** · 20 July 2009, 07:21 Monday

Your answer is in the last statement "directly up against the back wall". Barring any problems with the speakers themselves, which I have no reason to suspect being that new would of been fixed under warranty. It was purely enviromental.

**tim916** · 20 July 2009, 08:42 Monday

Sounds like the guy has serious room issues, and that your poor impression of the speakers is no fault of the speakers themselves. Did you try adjusting your listening position at all? Did he say why he was selling them? When auditioning speakers (or any component) it is important to remember that at least 50% of what you are hearing is the room itself.

**Natural1** · 20 July 2009, 16:03 Monday

Originally posted by emig5m

Well I spent at least three hours comparing them and every time the 683 beat out the 685 - both where crossed over at 80Hz to a Sunfire Signature EQ. The FST mids make all the difference and the difference is easily noticeable swapping back and forth in the same listening session.

I am actually glad to hear this as I'm planning to go from 685 to 683 for the fronts sometime in the not-too-distant future. Now I'm really looking forward to the upgrade, but at the same time I agree the 685 is very good speaker! I do a lot of 2 channel listening and will definitely be somewhat sad to see them move to the rear.

Thanks for the info/opinions!

**emig5m** · 20 July 2009, 19:40 Monday

Originally posted by tim916

Sounds like the guy has serious room issues, and that your poor impression of the speakers is no fault of the speakers themselves. Did you try adjusting your listening position at all?

Yea, I tried adjusting listening position all around. I moved out of the chair and stood and squatted at various positions and heights. Which reminds me of one thing I don't think I could live with the 803D is that when seated the tweeters are way above ear level and the mids are at ear level.

The room was a dry-walled basement with thin carpet and a few chairs and not much else. One speaker was near a large opening into the room and the other directly in a corner - both up against the back wall. I badly wanted to move the speakers out into the room, even if only a foot or so, but he declined to allow me to move them around (which I couldn't blame him, they're not cheap god forbid I tipped one over and broke the diamond tweeter.)

There was no 3D imaging like mine. No illusion of a center channel playing from 2-channel music like mine. No in your ear fine detail like you can so easily hear from decent headphones. There was no comparison - my system that cost mere pennies totally mops the floor of it. And I told him that honestly my much cheaper system sounded way better that I'd have to pass on buying them. My rinky dink 685's with the Sunfire sub would put his system to shame.

Originally posted by tim916

Did he say why he was selling them?

He said he just wants to get rid of the entire system and that he never uses it (as mediocre as it sounds for $18,000 for a pair of speakers and a amp I not only would not want to use the system either, but probably take a gun and kill myself for spending that much for Best Buy level sound, lol.) He was also doing a lot of remodeling to the house that he said he wanted the money for.

Yea I know, room and setup is everything... the guy also said that it was his room, but I still couldn't force myself to drop five grand cash for something that didn't even match my "entry level" stuff and impress me. It was actually an eye opening experience that you can take entry level stuff and have jaw dropping sound quality. I literally would have paid him $500 to let me take the speakers home for a non-restrictive in home demo. I pay him in full for the speakers, I don't like them I bring them back and he keeps $500 of the money I paid.

Regardless, anymore I just don't like huge speakers and the 803D are pretty hefty.

: A little too tall for me - I want my tweeter ear level. I wouldn't of been happy with them either way I don't think. I'm still interested in the 804S since it's the same size as my 683's and I'm still curious to hear what the 800 series have over the 600 - I'm extremely skeptical now that there will be much difference to justify the price once in the same room/setup.

Originally posted by Natural1

I am actually glad to hear this as I'm planning to go from 685 to 683 for the fronts sometime in the not-too-distant future. Now I'm really looking forward to the upgrade, but at the same time I agree the 685 is very good speaker! I do a lot of 2 channel listening and will definitely be somewhat sad to see them move to the rear.

Thanks for the info/opinions!

Once you get the 683 don't forget they'll need to break in. I originally had dealer demo's and returned them to buy new and the new ones out of the box didn't sound quite as good. Metallica to the break-in rescue, heh. Once you break them in good if you have stands for the 685's don't forget to have some "fun" comparing them to each other as front mains. :T

**Natural1** · 20 July 2009, 20:15 Monday

Originally posted by emig5m

Once you break them in good if you have stands for the 685's don't forget to have some "fun" comparing them to each other as front mains. :T

Most definitely!

I'm in the middle of the house buying process right now so it may be 2010 before I do the upgrade, but I'm certainly looking forward to it!

**audioqueso** · 21 July 2009, 01:14 Tuesday

Originally posted by emig5m

I'm still interested in the 804S since it's the same size as my 683's and I'm still curious to hear what the 800 series have over the 600 -

Why???? Why in the world would you ponder over the 804, when you've heard the 803D, and concluded that you didn't like it. :B :B Granted, I think most will agree that it was more the rooms fault as oppose to the speaker itself. However, the 804S is not better than the 803D... and the height of the 804S is not going to make it any better than the 803D. You're apparently very happy with your 683. Stay away from this forum for a while... I think hanging around here and reading all this is giving you upgradities... ha ha ha. But honestly, all joking aside, you seem really happy with your 683. So why ponder any further? It sounds like you've done an excellent job at setting up your room properly, speaker position, etc to get the most out of the 683.

Originally posted by emig5m

I'm extremely skeptical now that there will be much difference to justify the price once in the same room/setup.

With the proper setup, there's a big difference. But also keep in mind that the 600 series has a different sound compared to the 800 series. Maybe the 803D was had a horrible setup in that room. Or maybe it wasn't, and it's just that you may like the 600 signature sound more than the 800 series.

Just FYI, though not the same scenerio, I've listened to my 805's and 600 S3 on a ESOTERIC CD player matched with a McIntosh 200watt integrated amp. Both sounded really good, but both really carried a different sound with components of that caliber. While at the same time, back when I first received my 805's, using a basic receiver, they did not sound night and day better compared to my 601 S3 back then. Just for what it's worth.

**Opus007** · 21 July 2009, 01:37 Tuesday

Enjoy your 683's .They are a amazing speaker.

**emig5m** · 21 July 2009, 11:25 Tuesday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Why???? Why in the world would you ponder over the 804, when you've heard the 803D, and concluded that you didn't like it. :B :B Granted, I think most will agree that it was more the rooms fault as oppose to the speaker itself. However, the 804S is not better than the 803D... and the height of the 804S is not going to make it any better than the 803D. You're apparently very happy with your 683. Stay away from this forum for a while... I think hanging around here and reading all this is giving you upgradities... ha ha ha. But honestly, all joking aside, you seem really happy with your 683. So why ponder any further? It sounds like you've done an excellent job at setting up your room properly, speaker position, etc to get the most out of the 683.

With the proper setup, there's a big difference. But also keep in mind that the 600 series has a different sound compared to the 800 series. Maybe the 803D was had a horrible setup in that room. Or maybe it wasn't, and it's just that you may like the 600 signature sound more than the 800 series.

Just FYI, though not the same scenerio, I've listened to my 805's and 600 S3 on a ESOTERIC CD player matched with a McIntosh 200watt integrated amp. Both sounded really good, but both really carried a different sound with components of that caliber. While at the same time, back when I first received my 805's, using a basic receiver, they did not sound night and day better compared to my 601 S3 back then. Just for what it's worth.

I don't think it was "the sound signature" of one series vs the other. There was no focus, 3D imaging, no clarity and in your face ultra fine detail. When I sit down to listen to just one song on my system I literally can't peel myself away from it and spend hours and hours listening to it it's so clear. Everyone that's heard my system has been thoroughly impressed with the amazing clarity. You say that the 804S isn't better than the 803D but say if you needed a smaller and leaner in the bass speaker due to room size wouldn't that make the 804S better for your "specific needs?" I also have this weird idea that a narrower cabinet will image a little better in the midrange.

I think a smaller in the line speaker can be better than the next one up if the end-result works better with your room. I'd really like to remove the 683 and plop down the 804S directly in the same spot, same setup.... so curious in what the difference is, heh. And if I can notice the better performing midrange from the 685/684 to the 683 in the same room/setup then if there's anything significantly better from the 600 series to the 800 series I should be able to tell right away, no? If it was a dealer with a return policy I would of took the 803D without worry of buying them on faith alone that they would be much better on my system or a waste of time and money. What a ear opening experience that money alone doesn't take you there, heh. :E

**kmcheng** · 21 July 2009, 12:25 Tuesday

I am not disputing your findings. However, I just want to point out that another missing comparison here is to put the 683 in the seller's home and see how those perform in that room. Of course, given the circumstances around your deal, that is probably not an option.

In any case, have fun with the 683. There is no reason to change/upgrade them if you cannot find a better speaker for your tastes.

**emig5m** · 21 July 2009, 12:48 Tuesday

Originally posted by kmcheng

I am not disputing your findings. However, I just want to point out that another missing comparison here is to put the 683 in the seller's home and see how those perform in that room. Of course, given the circumstances around your deal, that is probably not an option.

The guy said something along the same lines. I'm sure he would let me bring my speakers over, he seemed cool like that, especially if it meant making the sale. But for me to drive another 4 hour round trip and lug my speakers over there just to see that mine also perform like crap dropping them in same spot as his 803's still wouldn't seal the deal. Thinking about it, to drop that kind of money would probably require a thorough in-home demo....

**kmcheng** · 21 July 2009, 13:26 Tuesday

Originally posted by emig5m

Thinking about it, to drop that kind of money would probably require a thorough in-home demo....

Personally, I think that is why B&W dealers are still in business. If I spend that kind of money, I would like to have the option of bringing the speakers back if I find out that the speakers do not work in my home within, say, 30 days. I know there are costs associated with having such an option, and I am willing to share those costs.

In addition to money, you also spent a lot of time on labor, research, settings etc. to make your 683 work for your room. Chances are you will have to spend at least the same amount of time and efforts to make the 803D work for your room after you get them. You may like the end results from the 803D better, or you may not. However, you will surely lose at least a couple days sweating over your various components and room treatments. These all take away from your actual enjoyment of music/movie.

**audioqueso** · 21 July 2009, 18:26 Tuesday

Originally posted by emig5m

When I sit down to listen to just one song on my system I literally can't peel myself away from it and spend hours and hours listening to it it's so clear.

...if you can make a comment like this about your setup now, why bother?

Originally posted by emig5m

You say that the 804S isn't better than the 803D but say if you needed a smaller and leaner in the bass speaker due to room size wouldn't that make the 804S better for your "specific needs?" I also have this weird idea that a narrower cabinet will image a little better in the midrange.

Sure, if the room is too small where a bigger speaker is producing too much bass for it. But all in all, you sound like you are psyching yourself and want to believe in this. I'm just saying, you didn't like the 803. You didn't hear it in your room, but your trying to give reason to the 804 against the 803... when you've never actually heard the 803 in your room to say that the 804 would be better. I'm not saying don't do it or anything. By all means, give it a try... and let us know how it goes. You know everyone loves that kind of stuff. But what I'm saying is, if you can say "When I sit down to listen to just one song on my system I literally can't peel myself away from it and spend hours and hours listening to it..."... why look elsewhere?

Originally posted by emig5m

If it was a dealer with a return policy I would of took the 803D without worry of buying them on faith alone that they would be much better on my system or a waste of time and money. What a ear opening experience that money alone doesn't take you there, heh. :E

Doesn't hurt to try. That's what I just did a few months ago at home with a pair of 805's and a pair of 600 S3.

**emig5m** · 21 July 2009, 19:17 Tuesday

Originally posted by audioqueso

But what I'm saying is, if you can say "When I sit down to listen to just one song on my system I literally can't peel myself away from it and spend hours and hours listening to it..."... why look elsewhere?

That's a very good question. I was asking myself that same question on the way to pickup the 803D, heh. But well, the main reason is simply curiosity. If you don't try something out for yourself, you'll never know. I wanna know myself from first hand experience what the performance differences actually are. I wanna keep it as fair of a comparison as possible hence why I want to compare the 804S to the 683 since they're basically the same size/similar design but one is the entry/value level and the other is from the flagship lineup. I also admit I like the looks of the 800 series too. Now that I've had a great experience with B&W's entry lineup I'm willing to go for the flagship lineup and think it would be nice to have the looks to go along with the sound!

Yea, prestige of having a model in the flagship lineup is also playing a 'small' role here.

What attracted me to the 803D was the price I could get them for in pristine condition barely used compared to the price that you would pay out the door with taxes at a dealer. What I'm really after is a thorough in-home demo of the 804S on the same system and doing a direct comparison to the equivalent 600 series speaker.

Maybe I'll finally get the 804S home on the same system and be like WOW this is even more clear and more detailed with better imaging and look tons better and opt to purchase a pair or... get them home and be like- the sound really isn't all that much different and even though I adore the looks of them, the price difference just for the looks alone isn't worth it to me. hehe.

Either way it will be a fun and learning experience and I'll bet there's a few people on here who are going to enjoy my review of a direct comparison of the 683 vs the 804S. I'm hoping to have a set of 804S's at home as early as this weekend if I can find any on the floor in a drivable distance and a dealer willing let me do a in-home demo as long as I pay for the speakers up front.

**audioqueso** · 21 July 2009, 19:50 Tuesday

Sounds good. I'll be looking forward to it.

I know you have it posted up here somewhere, but what are your components?

**emig5m** · 21 July 2009, 20:43 Tuesday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Sounds good. I'll be looking forward to it.

I know you have it posted up here somewhere, but what are your components?

Yamaha RX-663
Emotiva XPA-5
Digitally bitstreaming flac lossless from a home theater PC (my pc also can bitstream HD BluRay audio since I have the Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 HDMI soundcard).

**Purple_and_Gold** · 22 July 2009, 23:56 Wednesday

Upgraditis is a terrible "disease" that is difficult to overcome once you head down that path. The $ to Wow factor is not linear if you don't know already. Like the previous posters had already indicated, my own experience (DM-7x-8xS-8xD) tells me different B&W models (___X) of speakers have (slightly) different sound quality. The differences are more pronounced between different classes (X___Y). (I am skipping the subjective Amp comparisons entirely.)

Two other things you must consider: room acoustic and speaker placement are equally important. You really can't make a definitive judgment until you have established an identical control environment with known variables.

If you are happy with current set up and equipment, enjoy the music and be happy. :-)

**bigburner** · 23 July 2009, 00:23 Thursday

Originally posted by Purple_and_Gold

If you are happy with current set up and equipment, enjoy the music and be happy. :-)

Exactly.

The desire to upgrade constantly signals one's dissatisfaction with the equipment, which must surely degrade the enjoyment of the music.

I also question whether more expensive means better. To a lot of people it means different, which may not necessarily mean better.

Nigel.

**Glenee** · 23 July 2009, 08:16 Thursday

[QUOTE=emig5m]Yamaha RX-663
Emotiva XPA-5
Digitally bitstreaming flac lossless from a home theater PC (my pc also can bitstream HD BluRay audio since I have the Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 HDMI soundcard).[/QUOTE
The Yamaha RX-863 with the XPA-5 is the electronics that I was running the 805S with, that I though was one of the most enjoyable combo's I had ever assembled.The warmth of the Yamaha reminded me of McIntosh sound only a little hot "er. Almost Perfect.

**1oldguy** · 23 July 2009, 08:48 Thursday

Originally posted by bigburner

Exactly.

The desire to upgrade constantly signals one's dissatisfaction with the equipment, which must surely degrade the enjoyment of the music.

I also question whether more expensive means better. To a lot of people it means different, which may not necessarily mean better.

Nigel.

I agree 1000%.

**emig5m** · 23 July 2009, 19:52 Thursday

Originally posted by bigburner

The desire to upgrade constantly signals one's dissatisfaction with the equipment, which must surely degrade the enjoyment of the music.

I'm definitely not dissatisfied with my system, actually extremely happy with it. Especially after hearing $18,000 in equipment that couldn't hold a candle to it. Like I said above, I go to listen to one song and wind up playing music for hours in amazement of the clarity and wanting to hear a CD or song for the first time that I haven't played yet since I build the system last year. Like I said, it's mainly curiosity for me. Everyone says the 800 series easily outperforms the 600's and I wanna see/hear exactly what that difference is. That curiosity wont go away until I finally try it out for myself. Maybe I'll like them enough to purchase them, or maybe not.

I really like the looks of the 800 series, I'm sold there, but I wanna see how they perform back-to-back against my 600 series in the same room/system. I had a lot of "fun" comparing the 685/684/683 to one and the other. The 683 vs 804s should be the most fun yet.

Originally posted by Glenee

The Yamaha RX-863 with the XPA-5 is the electronics that I was running the 805S with, that I though was one of the most enjoyable combo's I had ever assembled.The warmth of the Yamaha reminded me of McIntosh sound only a little hot "er. Almost Perfect.

Ya, I was pretty impressed with the Yamaha. I had low expectations considering it was half the price of my previous Sony that was so horrible sounding for 2-channel music compared to my previous 2-channel Carver system that it actually made me stop listening to music altogether and was only used for movie playback. Sony and two-channel music playback = :gah:

**ak77** · 24 July 2009, 04:04 Friday

I have 685 running via Rotel RA-05 in my bedroom and have 803S running via Classe CAP-2100 in my lounge. I enjoy both of these systems thoroughtly and listen to same CD's on both of them for comparisons. Although the rooms are different and obviously dynamics will play their part, but I definitley enjoy my 803 speakers more than 685.

I dont think the sound is comparable in a way. 685 although very good speakers sound like a very accomplished child singing as compared to 803s which is more like a mature adult. Both the speakers give amazing details but 803s sound bigger/larger in comparison. There is obvious maturity in the sound and it takes slightly higher volume to sound at their best.

685 (or even 683/684 in my previous experience) catch your attnetion quickly as they produce a bit tinny/sharper sound maybe because of their size or other design features. So 800 series speakers might sound a bit subdued when compared directly with 600's. However after a while of listening, 800's more enjoyable as they offer same or even better dynamics, a bit rounded top end which does not catch your attention, but does not also loose any detail.

I can understand why 685 or other 600's speaker might be better for show off as people can catch the high end and low end quickly, so they might feel that - wow nice speakers, good boom boom and good clarity (by virtue of sharper sound), but at the end 800's speakers offer better/mature/heavier sound which might take a bit longer for people to catch and appreciate.

In defence of my 685, there are some CD's which I enjoy more on 685 than 803. The most recent example is Kings of Leon, vocals of Caleb Followill get a different character on 685 which I enjoy more :T

Andy

Welp.. Had to pick my fathers jaw off the ground tonight (more 685 awesomeness)

Welp.. Had to pick my fathers jaw off the ground tonight (more 685 awesomeness)

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