700 versus 600 series

[ray5]

Hi! I am new to this forum and could really use some help. After a lot of search I have narrowed my search for HT speakers to the B&W line. But am undecided about which one. My choices are:

Option #1
Fronts: 683
Surrounds: 685's
CTR: HTM 61
Sub: ASW 610XP

Option#2
Fronts: 703
Surrounds: 705
Ctr: HTM 7
Sub: ASW 610XP

Questions:
-5.1 or 7.1? I have enough space and since most recordings are still encoded in 5.1 should I go for 2 sides also? If I skip the sides it saves me money with which I can go to the 700 series! Is it a problem to add side speakers at a later date?
-the 700 series is being discontinued, is that a problem buying them now knowing that?

Which receiver:
Rotel 1560
Integra 8.9 or
Pioneer Elite SC-05

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[newguy987]

If you have the money, it's a no brainer to go with the 700 series. If you're looking at blueray you'll want to get geared up for 7.1, to benefit from the new audio they have. You could always buy for 5.1 and upgrade later. Use the extra money-if you have any left to buy the best amp/receiver you can afford. The big question would be to go with a receiver, or to buy separates. If I was to do it over again I would have gone with the separates, however it is a lot more expensive. Most people seem to like the Rotel set up. definately better than pioneer, yamaha, denon etc. It would help if you gave a little more detail. What's your budget? How much do you listen to music vs movies? Room size? Hope this helps a bit

[ray5]

The room is 24 by 21 but the back is half open and leads into the kitchen , so far from ideal for HT. The budget including Universal Remote and installation is no more than 8-10G. I am tempted by the 700 series but the installer thought it was overkill but I want to get something that will be somewhat future proof(though I know that does not exist in the electronics world!). Though he did say it was a significant step-up. Movies-music 75%-25%. As I look into more it's so overwhelming and confusing to research. I am reasonably handy, but is it difficult to install and particularly calibrate? Thanks for your answer.

[PewterTA]

To be honest. If you want to save yourself money... do option one and silver solder the connections to the drivers. They will sound as good if not better than the 700 series. :T

Go with the Integra or Rotel receivers in my opinion.

[emig5m]

To be honest. If you want to save yourself money... do option one and silver solder the connections to the drivers. They will sound as good if not better than the 700 series. :T

Go with the Integra or Rotel receivers in my opinion.

So just silver soldering is required and not replacing the entire wiring like you did? It really makes a worthwhile difference? And to the OP, If you have the money for the 700 series might as well just go 800 series? I know if/when I upgrade from the 600 I'm going directly to the 800 or not at all.

[ray5]

Well, I am not skillful enough(read scared) to do the soldering myself. As, to upgrade to the 800 series, I don't think with the same budget I could. WHat would you suggest in the 800's?

[Ken49r]

I think you will like the 704 better with the HTM7 and 705...They all mate together as 2 way speakers. The 703 has a different midrange.
Since your going HT you will probably use multichannel music as well and really notice the matching. Try the 703 with the HTM7 in multichannel and if it sounds good to you thats all that matters.
I had the 704 and loved it.

[Ken49r]

I think with the 700's your music listening will increase as you hear how good music sounds again compared to what your probably useing now.
The 704 in 2 channel sing very nicely. :T

Also if you decide to upgrade electronics down the line the 700 will give you a nice reward. I've heard the 700 series on McIntosh and they really sounded good.

[PewterTA]

So just silver soldering is required and not replacing the entire wiring like you did? It really makes a worthwhile difference? And to the OP, If you have the money for the 700 series might as well just go 800 series? I know if/when I upgrade from the 600 I'm going directly to the 800 or not at all.

Well the wiring helps... in my opinion, but if people don't have better copper wire laying around, at least do the soldering. That helps more than replacing the wire. But if one HAS the wire, then while you're in the speaker, might as well change it out to get the most of your speakers. The biggest (and hardest) part is pulling the plugs from the tweeter connector and soldering the wire to them. Then plugging them back into the tweeter. If I could figure out a better way to directly connect them to the tweeter, I'd love to do that and see what that does.

For some reason people are afraid of replacing the wiring...but will tend to solder the connections do the drivers.

Ray5, where you located, if you're by me I'll do it for you for free. It's easy, just take a little bit of time.

[ray5]

Thanks PewterTA,
I am up here in New Hampshire. To use the 704 instead of the 703 is a good suggestion. My concern, which may not be anything but should I be wary to get into the 700 series knowing that it is being phased out? They are likely available through January only.
Also please tell me the difference between the 704(2 way) and 703 (3 way) ?

[beden1]

I had the 703s with the HTM7, and later swapped for a used HTM1. The HTM1 is a great center channel speaker with the 703s. The HTM7 did not match very well IMO.

[emig5m]

Also please tell me the difference between the 704(2 way) and 703 (3 way) ?

Well I can give you my observation from the 600 series since I've had everyone in my home except the 686. When playing the 684 (2 1/2 way) and 685 (2 way) they both sounded fantastic with great clarity, good bass for their sizes, no complaints from either - I could easily be happy with either one. I had almost thought they sounded identical to the 683 above the lower bass (well they do tonally) and maybe it would of been better to buy 685's all the way around and have perfect matching channels.

But when I A/B'd them to the 683 the full three way with the FST mid playing 2-channel music which is most important to me, first thing I noticed was the clearer and more open and detailed midrange. Easily noticeable when comparing back and forth relaxing in your own home without a salesman breathing down your back or other distractions you might run into at a store (reason I only demo speakers at home). Since I listen more critically to 2-channel music, the 683 was a no brainer so I went over my max budget I set of the 684 and got the better speaker. I couldn't be happier with my purchase!

Still, if you have the money to buy the 700 series then my personal opinion is you care enough about sound (and possibly the higher quality look) to spend that much money might as well go 800 series even if you have to buy it in steps and pieces (basically what I did with my 600 series - started out with mains and sub, used my old speakers interim, then upgraded the rest as I saved money for them). When/if I upgrade my 600 series, I wont consider anything but going to the 800's. :T

A pair of 703's are say around $3,300 a pair, 804's similar size speaker of the 800 series is around $4,500. I know I know your own personal budget is your own personal budget, but I just can't see going that far and not going all the way! :E Heck with it, buy your front end now, and use whatever for rears until you have the money to get 800 series rears.

So I say 600's or 800's. The 700's are a lot of money and too close not to go all the way to the 800's. :righton:

[Ken49r]

My concern, which may not be anything but should I be wary to get into the 700 series knowing that it is being phased out? They are likely available through January only.

Good question. That would depend if you are buying all the speakers at one time or are you piecing it together. If your not going to get all the 700 speakers at one time I would scratch it and go with the new CM series.

Honestly the CM series gives you better pairing than the 700's today and would be my choice if I were you. The CM give you great sound and a very stylish look with their veneer or piano black and shiny hardware, and you know the dust covers are magnetic because you will probably like to look at them a lot with the covers off.

Also please tell me the difference between the 704(2 way) and 703 (3 way) ?

Your center channel should pair with the L/R ch. The HTM7 is the only center available in 700 series and it pairs with the 704 and 705 up front better than the 703.
The 703 being a 3 way speaker means it has separate drivers for highs, mid, lows. The 704 being a 2 1/2 way matches the HTM7, 705, because they all use the same midrange driver that also produces the lows. The 704 does have an extra bass driver that works in conjunction with the bass from the mid driver which is why it is a 2 1/2 way.

Hope that helps.

[Allegiance]

I would suggest you have a look at the new CM range as well. CM9's look nice on paper but I am very eager to see them in person.

If not, maybe look at 805's for fronts to begin with, then when you get a bit more cash get 804's and move that 805's to the surround duties. Or you could get a nice matching system with 805's as the fronts and using the following speakers:

805S - Fronts
HTM4S - Centre
SCMS - Surrounds

They all nicely complement the 805's since they practically are 805's in a different form: P

[Allegiance]

Also one more thing I wanted to add, I would try to focus more of your budget on getting a nice set of speakers rather than electronics.

Whilst electronics are important, a good set of speakers can last you years whereas electronics don't last as long because they change so often and upgrades are required :twisted: .

[george_k]

Another option might be to start with two 800-series speakers (e.g. 805's or 804's) and slowly incorporate additional units as funding becomes available.

[wettou]

Also one more thing I wanted to add, I would try to focus more of your budget on getting a nice set of speakers rather than electronics. Whilst electronics are important, a good set of speakers can last you years whereas electronics don't last as long because they change so often and upgrades are required :twisted: .

Very true, so spend 60% on speakers, amps are also a good investment as they don't change often, 20% on amps, 10% on pre/pro and the rest on the source and cables :T

[ray5]

You guys are awesome! I feel like a total novice at this. It is tempting to go for the 800 series but just can't afford them! My dealer is also pushing the Snell D7 line on me. I am quite certain about the B&W's though. SHould I consider the new NAD's or just go for the Rotel 1560 as the receiver? If I decide on the 704 as fronts, 705 as rears HTM 7 as Center and ASW 610 as sub can I later come and add some sides from say the 600 series as by that time the 700's would be gone? Also in my room which is 24 by 21 with the back wall being half and then the rest opens into the kitchen is one big sub better or two small ones?

[PewterTA]

The 600 series used as rears/sides would work pretty good. You might notice a slight timbre (tonal) mismatch with some sounds, but all in all you'd really have to do a lot of critical listening to notice any real big difference.

I will tell you to make sure you hear the 700 series as I listened to them and they sounded good, but they definitely have a different sound to them over the 600 and 800 series. Just "sounds different." Not in a good or bad way, but it's a different sound than the other series.

[NMG]

I'd also suggest trying to get an audition of the 704's with the HTM7 and the 703's with the HTM7 to see how those combo's sound to you. Personally, I don't find the HTM7 to be THAT bad of a match to the 703's in a HT setting. The posts about it not having the FST midrange are true, however, I haven't seen it as a significant liability. In fact, on good material the 703 & HTM7 combo can sound simply amazing. I'm thinking stuff like Iron Man on Blu-ray for example.

If you don't mind the 703's with the HTM7, the real benefit to going that route (at least IMHO) would be with 2 channel. I think the 703's are a much nicer speaker for music than the 704's. I see that your mix is 25% music and 75% HT so that may certainly impact your decision. For me, the additional benefit the 703's would yield for music would easily offset any potential issue of integration between then amd the HTM7.

Good luck. You'll be getting a damn fine system regardless of which way you go :T

[N2siast]

If you're in no rush for speakers I'll suggest you wait for the CM-9 to come out late Dec early Jan.

[Ken49r]

Ray,
Glad to see you are not caving into all the 800 series talk. It's easy for us to say what we would do, but then we don't have to flip the bill either. :P

SHould I consider the new NAD's or just go for the Rotel 1560 as the receiver?

B&W own's Rotel....Which do you think will sound better.

If I decide on the 704 as fronts, 705 as rears HTM 7 as Center and ASW 610 as sub can I later come and add some sides from say the 600 series as by that time the 700's would be gone? Also in my room which is 24 by 21 with the back wall being half and then the rest opens into the kitchen is one big sub better or two small ones?

Why not use a 700 sub?
There are lot's of surround options. When you go 7.1 you will want the 705 on the side and the back surrounds can be DS7, 705, Custom series (in-walls), lot's of options there. The side surrounds in 7.1 are more important than the back surrounds.

BTW the 1560 will be OK for the 704's but you will need more amp if you go 703. I'm really suprised the CM series doesn't turn you on.....They are sexy!

You chose B&W so you can't go wrong with any series you go with. :T

[Briz vegas]

703, 804 and even 683 are harder to drive speakers and really need a power amp in addition to a receiver as others on this forum regularly suggest. If you are sticking with a receiver then the 805 can be had for 703 money. On that basis for the finest in sound quality within the budget I would be tempted to go with 805, HTM4 up front and something like 685 at the rear.

- you get a stunning and seemless front end where most of the action takes place in films
- you surrounds are good quality and you can add the extra side ones at a later time without breaking the bank
- A receiver can happily power this setup without running out of juice
- You will not get the urge to upgrade for many many years to come
- Its the most classy looking setup available and does not visually overpower the room like some options

Our B&W dealer has comment on just how great 805s can sound with a good NAD receiver - he has walked away from some installs amazed at what they can do. Best of all with the 805 you will fall in love with your music.

704 & htm7 would be my second pick, but the 805 setup would be sublime and I am pretty sure would still fit your budget.

[Russ L]

Its true that the 703 has always been a hard sell because for a $1000 more you can get the 804s. But $1000 is $1000. The 704 is great value for the money (best in the whole lineup IMO) and I like the sound better than the CM or 600 series. The tweeter on top is the reason. The cabinets are much better as well. My vote is 704, htm7, and 705s or 685s for rear(to save cash)
Don't worry about 700 series being discontinued as B&W is very reputable and should have enough parts put aside to honour their 5 year warranty

[ray5]

703, 804 and even 683 are harder to drive speakers and really need a power amp in addition to a receiver as others on this forum regularly suggest. If you are sticking with a receiver then the 805 can be had for 703 money. On that basis for the finest in sound quality within the budget I would be tempted to go with 805, HTM4 up front and something like 685 at the rear.

- you get a stunning and seemless front end where most of the action takes place in films
- you surrounds are good quality and you can add the extra side ones at a later time without breaking the bank
- A receiver can happily power this setup without running out of juice
- You will not get the urge to upgrade for many many years to come
- Its the most classy looking setup available and does not visually overpower the room like some options

Our B&W dealer has comment on just how great 805s can sound with a good NAD receiver - he has walked away from some installs amazed at what they can do. Best of all with the 805 you will fall in love with your music.

704 & htm7 would be my second pick, but the 805 setup would be sublime and I am pretty sure would still fit your budget.

Is that really true? That the 683,703 and 804's are hard to drive even with the Rotel 1560?

[ray5]

Also, I am tending to lean towards 704, htm7, and 705s or 685s for rears. Can I use the sub from the 600 series and not from the 700 series though for another 300 dollars I could go from the AWS 610XP to the ASW 700.

[beden1]

Also, I am tending to lean towards 704, htm7, and 705s or 685s for rears. Can I use the sub from the 600 series and not from the 700 series though for another 300 dollars I could go from the AWS 610XP to the ASW 700.

I had the ASW 750 with my 703s and it blended very well for music. It is a very good sounding sub woofer, but may lack some slam for HT, IMO.

[Antus]

I always feel B&W full range speaker need at least 150 to 200W to perform it's best. Rotel can only do 100W, which is more suitable for bookshelf size speakers.

maybe i will suggest 805s front, 685 rear, and 825/CM/750 sub. Rotel 100w should drive 805s just fine. u can add htm4 later if it's over ur current budget.

700 series are at the end of it's life already. although it's still a great speaker, when the new one out, (and i expect one very soon) you will have hard time selling your old speakers should you decide to upgrade later. 800 series over time usually hold their value very well regardless of model.

[ray5]

I always feel B&W full range speaker need at least 150 to 200W to perform it's best. Rotel can only do 100W, which is more suitable for bookshelf size speakers.

maybe i will suggest 805s front, 685 rear, and 825/CM/750 sub. Rotel 100w should drive 805s just fine. u can add htm4 later if it's over ur current budget.

700 series are at the end of it's life already. although it's still a great speaker, when the new one out, (and i expect one very soon) you will have hard time selling your old speakers should you decide to upgrade later. 800 series over time usually hold their value very well regardless of model.

Actually the 700's will not come back in any form. They are extending the CM series and doing away with the 700's.
I understand the point of the Rotel not having enough power, should I consider more powerful NAD's?

[beden1]

Actually the 700's will not come back in any form. They are extending the CM series and doing away with the 700's.
I understand the point of the Rotel not having enough power, should I consider more powerful NAD's?

Instead of thinking ample power, you may be better off thinking more in the lines of quality power. My 703s turned into great speakers when I hooked them up to a used Classe amp (CAV-150) that outputs 150 watts per channel. You can find many good buys on used Classe amps on Audiogon.

[hifiguymi]

Actually the 700's will not come back in any form. They are extending the CM series and doing away with the 700's.

The 700 Series won't be back at a similar price point, but the name very well could come back. B&W could move the 700 Series up in the line and narrow the 800 Series to just diamond product. This is all speculation of course but I don't think they will abandon the 700 Series totally.

I understand the point of the Rotel not having enough power, should I consider more powerful NAD's?

The Rotel has enough power. It may not be what you want in terms of performance but it does have enough power. The best thing is to listen before you decide.

Eric

[dknightd]

It is all a personal decision. All we can give you are things to think about, so here is my contribution. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Listen to as many speakers as you can. Spend more time with the ones you like and think you can afford. All speakers are a compromise, only you can decide which is the best compromise for you. Try to listen to them with the amps or receivers you are considering. You might notice a difference, you might not. Based on my experience
the 703 and similar b&w 3-way floor standing speakers benefit from an amp that can deliver current was needed - most receivers cannot deliver this, but perhaps some can. Make sure you buy a receiver that has preamp ouputs, that way you can always upgrade the amp if you see the need.
I would not worry too much about what might be being discontinued, or what might be coming next, unless you want to keep waiting and seeing. No matter what you buy something will come along later that is "better". If you are worried about resale value, then you should be buying used. Better IMO is to spend your time deciding which of the currently available products you like the best. If it happens to be something that might be discontinued you might be able to use that information to get a reduced price on a new, or floor demo - but nobody really knows for sure what might happen - kind of like the stock market. If you buy something you like you will keep it for awhile no matter what happens - if it gets discontinued, or replaced, who cares? You still have something you like that suited you the best at the time you bought it.

Got to go- dinner time - I'm sure I had something else to say, and a proofread might have been nice, but here it is for what it is worth

[Ken49r]

B&W could move the 700 Series up in the line and narrow the 800 Series to just diamond product. This is all speculation of course but I don't think they will abandon the 700 Series totally.

I could see this happening too. The 805D is coming so why not seperate the S and D series altogether and rebuild the 700's.

[beden1]

I could see this happening too. The 805D is coming so why not seperate the S and D series altogether and rebuild the 700's.

Where did you hear for sure that B&W is coming out with the 805D? I'm asking, as I would really like to get a pair for my surrounds if it does happen.

[Ken49r]

Where did you hear for sure that B&W is coming out with the 805D? I'm asking, as I would really like to get a pair for my surrounds if it does happen.

A pretty good source told me, but made it sound as though it was at least a year away before we will see it. Makes sence since last year B&W upgraded the 600 series. This year its the CM line. What's next?

[joetama]

Interesting thread... I think I've seen something similar to it before.


My input would be that I personally prefer the 703 to the 600 and the 804S. My dad has the 804S and they sound amazing, but I just prefer the sound of the 703. One reasons is I don't really hear $1,000 worth of improvement in the 804S. My honest suggestion to you is to listen to whatever you can afford and pick what sounds best to your own ears. You're going to be the one that listens to them not us.

Also, the 703 & 804S do like power headroom. I've run 50 Watts to 400 Watts @ 8 Ohms on my 703 & 804S and they sound much tighter, cleaner, and have worlds more dynamic range with the higher wattage. I wouldn't suggest anything less than 150 Watts @ 8 Ohms. You also need to make sure the amplifier can drive the current to support the low impedance swings of the B&W speakers. My 703 low point is 3.1 ohms @ 115 Hz IIRC.

Anyway, I would defiantly give the CM a listen if you can, but let your ears do the purchasing. I'll always be a fan of the 700 Series, but I am a bit biased just like a good majority of the responses, even if they won't admit it.

[Briz vegas]

I'm biased as well. Just as well I am always right.

eh-hem! You can run the 3 way speakers with a reciever, but with 110w rating I found the sound a little fragile (not alot of grip). I strongly suspect it was a lack of current. Even a 100 power amp took enough weight of the receiver to provide a good improvement.

[Russ L]

Actually the 700's will not come back in any form. They are extending the CM series and doing away with the 700's.

Exactly. Thats why the 700 series is such a good buy right now. They are being replaced by the CMs which are less costly to produce. But the 704 is only a few $100 more than the CM7. So don't wait too long! :W

I use a high current amp (Moon, Classe, Creek are some suggestions in different price ranges) for my 2 channel listening and I also have a receiver for Home Theater. You need to set it up for home theater bypass.

All the B&W speakers are great products and thats the reason there is such diversity of opinions. :T

[joetama]

I hate to say it on this forum and because of my own love of the brand, but have you check out speakers from other manufactures?

I've been impressed with Dali, Thiel, PMC, and a few others. Might be worth a look.

[Iggurk]

Hi,

I've 703, 705 and HTM7 setup for quite a few years and I'm now pretty happy with my system (after months of setup and modds).

I sometimes think I should have bought a full 805s setup with a good sub.

Today I'll also perhaps opt for CM and modd them.

My recommendation is to take some times to listen to the 2-3 options you hesitate for with the CDs you know/like the most.

[ray5]

It seems lots of folks just love the 800 series. I am guessing that is because of performance and that they are the top of the lline. The limiting factor is the cost.
How do the 805S compare with the 804S? If indeed I take the plunge with getting some from this series can I use the 805S all around and the HTM4S as the ctr and one of the subs? Or should I do 804S fronts and 805S rears with the same ctr and sub and later when I have money add the sides in the form of two more 805S?
I am very green about this, can someone explain the concept of using pre-amps and amps and what is the configuration between the sourceand speakers when you use this versus just using a receiver?
Will I needto shelve the receiver and get the others if I get the 800 series?

[Briz vegas]

Alot of people on this forum like the 800 series because they are obsessive types who have to own the best.

I get the feeling alot of other folks don't post because they feel they are not in the 800 club, but that is just my hunch. In my book anyone who owns or is planning to purchase B&Ws is already in a pretty rare group of people prepared to spend a bit of cash on audio quality.

I only suggested 805 as I felt it would provide the highest quality within your budget and you would be able to get great results without having to go with high current, and typically more expensive separates (preamp/processor and power amp).

A receiver is a pre-amp, surround sound processor, power amp (with 5 or more channels of amplification) plus a radio all in one box. The digital signal from the DVD player goes to the surround processor section first to be converted to an analogue signal, it then goes through a preamp that boosts that signal a little bit (this is where your volume knob is attached so the amount of amplification is varied while the signal is still still relatively weak). After that the signal goes to the power amp stage which does the dumb muscle work and boosts the signal to a level suitable for your speakers.

Most receivers have the capacity to bypass some or all of the power amplifier channels so that you can run a separate power amp or amps. Power amps come in 1(monoblock), 2, 3, 5 and 7 or more channel versions. One channel per speaker.

If you google you will find many better explanations that the one above.

[Briz vegas]

And the only way to pick which speaker in your budget best suits you is to spend an afternoon trying them all. Generally the more you spend with B&W the better it gets, where the price is about the same the compromises in the design differ. 703 is harder to drive but has better bass, 805 is more refined top to bottom but with less bass, 804 has both refinement and bass,and so on up the price list.

[specialized]

It seems lots of folks just love the 800 series. I am guessing that is because of performance and that they are the top of the lline. The limiting factor is the cost.
How do the 805S compare with the 804S? If indeed I take the plunge with getting some from this series can I use the 805S all around and the HTM4S as the ctr and one of the subs? Or should I do 804S fronts and 805S rears with the same ctr and sub and later when I have money add the sides in the form of two more 805S?
I am very green about this, can someone explain the concept of using pre-amps and amps and what is the configuration between the sourceand speakers when you use this versus just using a receiver?
Will I needto shelve the receiver and get the others if I get the 800 series?

After many hours of testing, i prefered 805s over 804s. Better imaging, and i prefered the sound.. Jump 804s , and get 805s, or 803s.

For 800 series there would be difference if u use power amp over receiver (at least in my case Rotel RB-1080 vs Denon 3808)

Darko

p.s. Now i use Denon as Pre/Pro

[ray5]

Thanks a lot guys. After a lot of thought I am considering the following:
1pr of 703 front speakers
1 HTM7 center ,
2prs of 705s with stands
and the ASW700 sub . Integra DTR 7.9 or 8.9 receiver or Rotel 1560
However some people thought that it is not powerful enough to drive the 703's and thus am thinking of the Emotiva XPA3 for the fronts. What do you guys feel? Or should I go for a XPA 5 and a XPA2 for all around amplification. I personally feel that that maybe an overkill but please let me know what you feel. Thanks.