703 vs 805 vs 805 + Sub vs 803S

[specialized]

In this moment at my place i have 703 and 805 and Zoran from this forum would bring his 803s as well.. So we would try to check how it sounds in normal not threated living room (u know my room from pictures i posted), and to find if it's worth to pay extra for 803s or maybe 805+sub (relatively cheap sub Mordaung Short Avanti 309i, but still we would have idea how it sound and if 805s+ sub is route to go, im thinking to get PV1 or maybe even two of them..) is ok, or maybe 703 is not that behind 800 series...Or..803 is 803 , specialy if i get the price for 805s+PV1+PV1.. But.. Let's wait for friday, and we will share our opinions..


We would try to have blind tests, and to be honest what we like and what we dont like...


greetings

Darko

p.s. Any combination i pick, at least im sure for rears.. I picked CM1

[wgriel]

Sounds like fun!

Looking forward to reading about your impressions.

[Allegiance]

This has been weighing on my mind for a while now. I am anticipating your response! :B

[utkinpol]

In this moment at my place i have 703 and 805 and Zoran from this forum would bring his 803s as well.. So we would try to check how it sounds in normal not threated living room (u know my room from pictures i posted), and to find if it's worth to pay extra for 803s or maybe 805+sub (relatively cheap sub Mordaung Short Avanti 309i, but still we would have idea how it sound and if 805s+ sub is route to go, im thinking to get PV1 or maybe even two of them..) is ok, or maybe 703 is not that behind 800 series...Or..803 is 803 , specialy if i get the price for 805s+PV1+PV1.. But.. Let's wait for friday, and we will share our opinions..


We would try to have blind tests, and to be honest what we like and what we dont like...


greetings

Darko

p.s. Any combination i pick, at least im sure for rears.. I picked CM1

I suspect you may be very dissapointed in Avanti 309i. It is not up to 805s at all. I currently run JBL L8400P and it is also not quite in par, but considering budget restrictions I can live with it ($400 area from Ebay). It has 12" driver, 600W, closed box.
I cannot says it does drums as good as they should be, I get used to it while in room but if I go to symphony hall I can hear difference right away. In local shop I listened to some other subs and as I can hear quite good ones start somewhere from $3K area. But it is too much for me to spend on bass unit.

Good subs are very expensive unfortunately and cheap subs ruin music, so good compromise here is very difficult to find. But 309i still IMHO does not have enough power and sharpness to do what it has to do well.

[specialized]

I suspect you may be very dissapointed in Avanti 309i. It is not up to 805s at all. I currently run JBL L8400P and it is also not quite in par, but considering budget restrictions I can live with it ($400 area from Ebay). It has 12" driver, 600W, closed box.
I cannot says it does drums as good as they should be, I get used to it while in room but if I go to symphony hall I can hear difference right away. In local shop I listened to some other subs and as I can hear quite good ones start somewhere from $3K area. But it is too much for me to spend on bass unit.

Good subs are very expensive unfortunately and cheap subs ruin music, so good compromise here is very difficult to find. But 309i still IMHO does not have enough power and sharpness to do what it has to do well.

I definitly agree with u.. But becouse in this moment i dont have any other sub, Avanti is here just to check what sub do to 805s.. If Avanti make sound better then just 805s, then PV1 would definitly make it much better..

Still i'm thinking ig it's more clever to get 805s + PV1 and eventualy another PV1, or becouse that cost almost the same price as 803s, to go with 803s and to forget everything else..

At least i definitly find out that 805s is very good speaker but for my opinion it's up to 15 square meters room.. For bigger room sub is must


Darko

[utkinpol]

I definitly agree with u.. But becouse in this moment i dont have any other sub, Avanti is here just to check what sub do to 805s.. If Avanti make sound better then just 805s, then PV1 would definitly make it much better..

Still i'm thinking ig it's more clever to get 805s + PV1 and eventualy another PV1, or becouse that cost almost the same price as 803s, to go with 803s and to forget everything else..

At least i definitly find out that 805s is very good speaker but for my opinion it's up to 15 square meters room.. For bigger room sub is must


Darko

Well, sub or no sub is quite an interesting topic, many people just object it as a concept. I do not find it to be so controversial, I like to have some coverage in extra-low frequencies. As of what particular sub to choose, I m not quite sure B&W makes best of them. But it is probably more a question of a personal choice, plus I am not a big specialist in subs anyway.

I would vote for Velodyne DD, DD-12, probably. DD15 may be too much for a small/medium room, but, again, it is a personal matter.

[specialized]

Well, sub or no sub is quite an interesting topic, many people just object it as a concept. I do not find it to be so controversial, I like to have some coverage in extra-low frequencies. As of what particular sub to choose, I m not quite sure B&W makes best of them. But it is probably more a question of a personal choice, plus I am not a big specialist in subs anyway.

I would vote for Velodyne DD, DD-12, probably. DD15 may be too much for a small/medium room, but, again, it is a personal matter.

When is listen some jazz music, the sub make to feel the emotion of the playing or singing.. Not to override music, just to put some magic ... So that's why i think in my room 805s play better with sub...


Darko

p.s. For 703 there is not a need of sub for music, but they are more harsh (they are still new, so dont know if they become softer after few more hours)

[kmcheng]

Still i'm thinking ig it's more clever to get 805s + PV1 and eventualy another PV1, or becouse that cost almost the same price as 803s, to go with 803s and to forget everything else..

I have two PV1's with two 805S, and am absolutely loving it. It did take me a very long time to adjust the settings on the PV1, but in the end I think they blend in very nicely with my 805S. The bass production of the PV1 is very responsive and tight, but not overwhelming, and I think that characteristic makes it a good match with the 805S. However, I also think that there should be other subs, at possibly lower prices, that would complement the 805S very well.

I should also point out that there are some non-sound-related considerations that you may want to think about. I chose the PV1 partly because of its looks, and partly because I got a package discount at the dealer. I also prefer the 805S + PV1 combination over the 803S mostly because of the flexibility the combo would give me. Besides, the combination looks less imposing than the 803S would in my living room.

Aside from its bass output, the 803S does have something that the 805S does not have: the FST. I never A/B the 803S with the 805S, so I could not really tell how much better the FST makes the 803S superior to the 805S in the mid-range. But when I compared the 804S (with FST) and the 805S I preferred the 805S: the bookshelf sounded more open and effortless than the floorstander on the same electronics.

I am very much looking forward to the results from your 803S vs. 805S comparison. Please keep us updated.

[specialized]

I have two PV1's with two 805S, and am absolutely loving it. It did take me a very long time to adjust the settings on the PV1, but in the end I think they blend in very nicely with my 805S. The bass production of the PV1 is very responsive and tight, but not overwhelming, and I think that characteristic makes it a good match with the 805S. However, I also think that there should be other subs, at possibly lower prices, that would complement the 805S very well.

I should also point out that there are some non-sound-related considerations that you may want to think about. I chose the PV1 partly because of its looks, and partly because I got a package discount at the dealer. I also prefer the 805S + PV1 combination over the 803S mostly because of the flexibility the combo would give me. Besides, the combination looks less imposing than the 803S would in my living room.

Aside from its bass output, the 803S does have something that the 805S does not have: the FST. I never A/B the 803S with the 805S, so I could not really tell how much better the FST makes the 803S superior to the 805S in the mid-range. But when I compared the 804S (with FST) and the 805S I preferred the 805S: the bookshelf sounded more open and effortless than the floorstander on the same electronics.

I am very much looking forward to the results from your 803S vs. 805S comparison. Please keep us updated.

Seem that we think similar way.. In moment when i type this i play Bebel Gilberto album Momento, and in this moment 805s are playing.. Before this i was listening 703 for few hours.. I really like the bass on 703, but when i switched to this 805s+sub combination the sound is like more open and more tight.. 703 play like there is some chaotic in the sound, that sound a bit harsh... Seem that 805s are more relaxed... Also few months ago i compared 804s to 703 and to 805s, and on 804s i really like the bass, the sound was nice, but without soundstage.. Only raw line. No depth.. 703 made much bigger soundstage then 804, and i was very suprised when i found out that i'm getting also very wide and big soundstage with 805s as well. 805s with sub could be very nice combination becouse is very flexible (u can put 805s in smaller room as well, and in combination with sub definitly require not high end electronics as bigger brothers from 800 series..) So tommorow if i found out that there is not such a difference between 805s+sub vs 803s, i'll definitly go the 805s route.. But if 803s are much more impresive, then i'll forgot about flexibility and get 803..


So talk to u tommorow...


Darko

[beden1]

Seem that we think similar way.. In moment when i type this i play Bebel Gilberto album Momento, and in this moment 805s are playing.. Before this i was listening 703 for few hours.. I really like the bass on 703, but when i switched to this 805s+sub combination the sound is like more open and more tight.. 703 play like there is some chaotic in the sound, that sound a bit harsh... Seem that 805s are more relaxed... Also few months ago i compared 804s to 703 and to 805s, and on 804s i really like the bass, the sound was nice, but without soundstage.. Only raw line. No depth.. 703 made much bigger soundstage then 804, and i was very suprised when i found out that i'm getting also very wide and big soundstage with 805s as well. 805s with sub could be very nice combination becouse is very flexible (u can put 805s in smaller room as well, and in combination with sub definitly require not high end electronics as bigger brothers from 800 series..) So tommorow if i found out that there is not such a difference between 805s+sub vs 803s, i'll definitly go the 805s route.. But if 803s are much more impresive, then i'll forgot about flexibility and get 803..


So talk to u tommorow...


Darko

My 703s sounded bright and a bit on the harsh side when I first got them, and got easier to listen to for long periods after they got some playing time.

But, when I powered them through a Classe amp as opposed to a Pioneer Elite receiver, the 703s became very nice to listen to in the mids and highs, and the bass tones really woke up. The 703s are an excellent speaker if the right equipment is used. I guess this is true with most of their speakers.

[specialized]

My 703s sounded bright and a bit on the harsh side when I first got them, and got easier to listen to for long periods after they got some playing time.

But, when I powered them through a Classe amp as opposed to a Pioneer Elite receiver, the 703s became very nice to listen to in the mids and highs, and the bass tones really woke up. The 703s are an excellent speaker if the right equipment is used. I guess this is true with most of their speakers.

I tried them with same equipment, and im talking relative to equipment i use..
Denon 3808 as a Pre/Pro + Rotel 1080 and Rotel 1072 CD Player.

Greetings

Darko

p.s. Did u compare some other speakers with 703 on same equipment and same enviroment?

[Allegiance]

Might be worth going for the cheaper option in terms of speakers and doing something about that Rotel 1080...

[beden1]

I tried them with same equipment, and im talking relative to equipment i use..
Denon 3808 as a Pre/Pro + Rotel 1080 and Rotel 1072 CD Player.

Greetings

Darko

p.s. Did u compare some other speakers with 703 on same equipment and same enviroment?

I also have 803D's now as my main speakers, and moved the 703s to the surrounds.

The 803D's never sounded bright or harsh with the Pioneer Elite receiver powering them. They sounded dull, however. It was like they were underpowered, and I was feeling like I made a mistake getting the 803Ds. The diamond tweeters just did not have much clarity and there was no excitement.

With my replacement amps, the 803Ds really sound great and I'm now very happy with them. The only mistake I made was to audition the 800Ds a couple of months ago, and I'm trying very hard to keep myself from going for them. The 803D's with the HTM2D is a very balanced set, and if I can manage some self control, I'll probably stay with this set-up.

For two channel, I now have a Classe CP-500 pre-amp and two mono Classe CAM-350s powering the 803Ds. For HT, I also have a Classe CAV-150 (6 channels x 150 amps) bi-amped for each speaker, and powering an HTM2D center and the 703 surrounds (plus two 15" Velodyne subs). I still have the Pioneer Elite receiver, but I'm in the process of deciding to replace it with either the Classe SSP-800 or the new Denon AVP.

When you get your friend's 803S's over at your house, spend some time listening to them. If you can swing the extra money, I think you'll find that these are excellent speakers, that may also demand less from electronics.

[specialized]

I also have 803D's now as my main speakers, and moved the 703s to the surrounds.

The 803D's never sounded bright or harsh with the Pioneer Elite receiver powering them. They sounded dull, however. It was like they were underpowered, and I was feeling like I made a mistake getting the 803Ds. The diamond tweeters just did not have much clarity and there was no excitement.

With my replacement amps, the 803Ds really sound great and I'm now very happy with them. The only mistake I made was to audition the 800Ds a couple of months ago, and I'm trying very hard to keep myself from going for them. The 803D's with the HTM2D is a very balanced set, and if I can manage some self control, I'll probably stay with this set-up.

For two channel, I now have a Classe CP-500 pre-amp and two mono Classe CAM-350s powering the 803Ds. For HT, I also have a Classe CAV-150 (6 channels x 150 amps) bi-amped for each speaker, and powering an HTM2D center and the 703 surrounds (plus two 15" Velodyne subs). I still have the Pioneer Elite receiver, but I'm in the process of deciding to replace it with either the Classe SSP-800 or the new Denon AVP.

When you get your friend's 803S's over at your house, spend some time listening to them. If you can swing the extra money, I think you'll find that these are excellent speakers, that may also demand less from electronics.

I think 803s are maximum that i can put in my living room at all.. 803D are definitly too big for my room size,and maybe too much bass for the space i can give to them.. Also i think 803S can work very nice even with Rotel 1080, while for 803D definitly is needed something better.. So that's why in this living place, my maximum is 803S.. Still i have to decide with combination would sound best, also becouse it's still a living room, it's important how it would be blend in the room (not just with sound).

So I'll definitly keep u dated what we found...


Darko

[Briz vegas]

I agree with Allegiance. If you are thinking 803s you need to factor in a better amplifier. The humble 1080 is a great amp but I think you need to aim for a balanced system. As a stepping stone to a better overall system the 1080 will have the power to run the 803s but it will not bring out the best in that system.

My speakers are less than a third of my 2 channel systems value. I bought the speakers first then upgraded everything downstream over about 6 steps. I still have one step to go as my speaker cable needs another upgrade (maybe next year), not that it is lacking anything now, its just that I have heard how more natural the system can sound with speaker cable closer to the quality of my interconnects.

[specialized]

After many hours of testing (we have play different combination for maybe 8-10 hours), and after few months of testing i can give u my opinion about B&W speakers in my room.

As u maybe know i had a HT system with 602/600/601 and i wanted to upgrade... I had chance to test many different speakers in my living room, for few days or at least few hours... So what i found.

First idea was to get 683 specialy after reading so many good reviews in magazines and on the net... I thought that's the win combination.. Almost same drivers from more expensive series, a perfect match in centar speaker and cheap for what u got.. So i was almost sure that's it.. All the testing i done was comparing front speakers, becouse i listen 90% stereo,10% HT, and if i'm satisfied with the fronts, then it's easy for the rest...
So i bring 683 few months ago, in same time i had CM7 and 703..

1. 683 was playing loud but after few hours of listening i didnt get the feeling that i enjoy what i heard (i have the same feeling at dealer room as well). The sound is not tight, not good controled and a lot of boomy bass..
The kind of speaker that u want for a party where is not important at all about sound stage, or to find details in the music..
Definitly i think they are over rated.. Also i dont like the finish.. If u analize how the front rubber panel is bolter, u can see that is not exactly centered.. It's like more on one side then other.. And also u have a feeling that they very cheap. So that chaotic and boomy sound made me to start thinking to go in CM line. I thought for just a little more money, i'm going in some real class...
2. CM7.. Very nice looking in my living room (5.5mx3.8x2.5m), and as first i like the sound.. At least the sound was not aggressive as 683,and u can listen them without beeing iritated as 683.. Same not that good controled character of the sound,but softer and more gentle.. Not good imaging as well, and very laid back.. This is not a proper floorstander and in same time it's definitly a book shelf.. I think this is not audiophile speaker, it's more like designer speaker.. THe kind of speaker when someone who is not in music that much, like to rebuild house, and to replace all the furniture, and the kind of speaker that it would look nice in everyone's living room.. And in same time owner which is not that much informed would be very happy that he have something very high end Or if u leave to designer who build ur place to pick
The biggest negative to CM7 is their colour sound, and missing bass, and weak dinamics.. Still if i have to choose between CM7 and 683, i'll pick the CM7.. At least they dont make me feel that i want to turn them off..

Also while i still have 602 at home, after few days of listening 683 and CM7, i reconect 602 again.. I was a bit dissapointed to find that the difference was not that big, and i like 602 more then 683, and maybe a little weaker then CM7...
In CM series i really like CM1.. For a such a small speaker they are wonderfull, with plenty of bass, clear sounding, but they are too small for my room.. If i have to pick a cheap bookshelf which i can listen and listen is CM1.. So that's why i definitly got one pair to serve as rears, or in the worst case to put them in my working room..Definitly the speaker that u like..If u are interested something more about them , i'll post it more detailed things..

Too bad that i had a chance to have 703 in same time...

When i connect them, the difference was definitly much much bigger.. Different class..

3.703 - We like the huuge soundstage, the sound was much tighter and much better controlled, deep bass (a little bit boomy, but not that boomy as 683). It's strange that i have a chance to have two different pairs of 703.. One pair i have few months ago (the same time with 683 and CM7), and now i have a brand new pair, and i think i remember a bit difference in the bass. With previous pair the bass was too much a boomy (i put the foam plugs inside), and with this new pair the bass it's tight and not boomy.. Strange..Or maybe becouse this is totaly brand new pair (only few hours of music).. Also on previous highs was a bit harsh, and the second pair highs are not that agressive.. I always had a feeling that sound is better if they are played. Not oposite.. Or maybe the difference made coffe table that i put in center of room in meanwhile.. Anyway, i would talk about 703 compared with pair that i prefer more (it's not just my opinion about this, becouse i have friends who was interested to listen, and also opinion from my gf, who was singing in choir for many years, and she definitly dont read reviews or magazines, to have influence from that.. She give totaly honest emotional opinion ).
So to continue.. 703 is definitly real delight.. U realize how image is important, how details are important, controlled tight bass (on second pair i have that feeling)...
Also their energy and dinamics are totaly amazing.. It's speaker that push air in u'r chest.. Also they are very front (which i like).. But..
There is always but.. We realized that on music when there is much more highs, there is a muss with high sound.. Almost like hissssssssssss or it's not tsh tsh tsh it's tshhhhhhhh if u understund what i say.. Also the sound sometimes it's not that clear It's a bit muddy sometimes.. It's definitly different legue from 683/CM7, but still we found that's is not the real choice...Also i realized that 703 play like they need bigger and softer room then mine.. There was echo happening, which made a bit chaotic sound.. And after longer listening i found that they can be tiresome.. Still, If i hade to pick between all below, and even between 804s, i'll get the 703.

Which made me to get and test 804s...

4. 804s. Much softer highs then 703, and i think more detailed
This speaker i have a chance to compare with 703 only few hours (i had to bring it back 703), but still... So much softer highs more detailed, tighter sound without echo, tight bass (but not deep at all), and what i didnt like..
Not a soundstage.. I got the imaging only left-right. But there was not depth of scene at all.. Also they played a bit laid back, and back (703 play like u are on in the first raw, and 804, like u are in the last).Also they was miss some dinamics as well.. So for some smooth jazz or female vocals i think are better then 703, but 703 give u more emotion...

5. 805s.. I got a chance to try them as well.. And i got totaly amazed from the imaging of these speakers.. wonderfulll.. U cant say that sound come from this speakers. The kind of sound make u want to listen music all the time, very sweet taste. But for my room bass was missing, which made them to dont play all the information.. I think this is the best speaker for up to 15 square meters room.. Still becouse i like them so much, i give them a chance.. I compare them with 804s, and i found that i like 805 more.. Bigger soundstage (more depth). 804s have more bass, but still i prefer 805 definitly. Maybe i didnt listen 804s properly, becouse i'm still suprised that they was playing a bit week, and without that depth of soundstage..
Still, i decide to get 805 or 703...

So Since i have 805 at home, and second pair of 703 came, now i had a chance to check them for a few days..

805s have sweeter and more detailed highs then 703, the tighter sound (there is not a echoing and chaos), but.. WIthout sub bass is missing, and they miss energy and dinamic sometimes.. So sub made them much better speaker.. After few days comparing, i found that 805s make definitly better feeling then 703.. Let's say like this.. U would pick 703 if u listen a lot of R'N'R music, percussion.. 805s is more jazzy speaker, sweet vocals...

So as u can see in all speakers until now we was able to find a negative things..

I always thought that my room is too small to get somethig bigger.. But..
My friend Zoran (he is on this forum as well, and specialy famouse with his review about 803s two years ago), bring his 803s pair at my place (im very very thankfull to him), and we have a chance to compare 805s vs 805s with sub vs 703 vs 803.

I wanted to compare them with my cables (nothing expensive too much), my Rotel 1072, Denon 3808 pre/pro and Rotel 1080.
So nothing spectacular.

As first we was playing 703 vs 805.. We all agreed that 805s+sub play better and more controled then 703..
So we finnaly put 803s.. I wanted to listen them in worst condition.. Like 10-20 cm from the wall.. When we compare 703 and 803..

803 have the same huuge soundstage as 703, totaly controled bass (even weaker in my opinion then 703), but more controlled, and totaly enough.. Also they play front, but they are not tiresome, non agressive.. Seem that for first time, i couldnt find a negative side..

Tight very controlled and detailed sound, smooth highs, still detailed, and deep enough and controlled and fast bass.. I think only on one CD i start thinking that 703 maybe play better, but after a while i find out that i thought that i like 703 becouse of their agressive character (it was like afro beat blues/jazz kind of music, and after a while i definitly realized that i like 803 more).

To make things more interesting, we decided now to compare 805s + sub vs 803s..

We found that 803s have clear and more crystal and detailed sound then 805s, much bigger soundstage, same soft highs, and the bass totaly controled.. So for first time this few months, i found a speaker that sound in the way that i cant say any negative thing..

805s + sub offer more flexibility, but when u compare the price of 805+sub, it's almost in 803 price class, but still 803 is more completed speaker... More balanced and more natural sound.. I didnt consider 803s at all, becouse i thought it would produce boomy bass and boomy sound, and still it's playing a bit big, but satisfied and very nice...

So the winner from all this test is 803s, and i think that i would stop my quest for perfect sound.. Seem that i finnaly found the perfect choice..

I dont even think to compare 803D becouse i feel it would produce too much bass in my room (i have opninion that 803D need much bigger room), and also i think 803D need much better aplification.. I got very suprised to find out that 803s play totaly nice even with my Rotel 1080.

So sorry for such a long post, but i hope i help to many of u that have dilemma, and dont have the oportunity to try them all at living room..
If u have some questions, i'll be glad to try to help..

Greetings

Darko

So the winner from all this is 803s

[Orb]

Nice writeup Darko.
Enjoyable to read and thanks for sharing your experience

Cheers
Orb

[audioqueso]

Great great great review and/or roundup of these B&W speakers! The great thing is that you got the opinions of others as well. Greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[Zoran]

Well, as one of participants of the event... I'd say that definitely room interaction plays the crucial role in evaluating of the whole sound. I basicaly share Darko's impressions, but want to add a few points more:

- I found Darko's room may be the biggest culprit which is pushing him ahead in pursuing his quest... Naked wooden base, flat hard walls, the same type of ceiling... Reverberations in midrange/presence beyond average critical treshold of tolerance, IMO. Personally, I could not listen music in such a room, but Darko seems to be well aware of this stuff, intending to keep deliberately this style for years to come... He's fairly maturated guy and I truly respect his choice to sacrifice the sound in favor of other normal daily purposes...

- I was pleasently surprised how well the 803S coped with the host(ile) room. Well, mid reverberations/sustains were taking its share all the time, but bass was thoroughly superior over other contenders, playing significantly better than in my room, even pushed by fairly lesser electronics overhere...

- There was no contest between the 803S and 703... Naturally, the lesser emerged inferior in all aspects. Frankly, I found the 703 almost unlistenable with some of Darko's favorite music. Wild, uncultivated, rush-like sound all over, bass boomy and out of control, no focus..., but I'd blame rather the room than the speaker itself...

- In my room the 805S plays reasonably well, with superior imaging/focus etc over the bigger brother 803S. But... I listen fairly nearfield - from 2,5 or max 3 meters, and this is what pays off with mini monitors. From that distance I cannot hear the 803S in their best, I am fully aware of this... But at Darko's place (4 metres or slightly more distance) obviously the 803S takes his shining hour - much wider stage, incredibly well shaped taking into account the reverberations. 803S plays stunningly louder than the 805S - another surprise for me, even I was aware about their 90db sensitivity vs only 88db at the 805S. Men, that was difference..!!!

Verdict? 803S, by a wide margin, no contest...

But if one intends to use such a big speaker in rooms bellow 30 square meters or have set the listening chair at less than 12 feet, my recommendation is very simple. Avoid big guys like the 803S. Take the 805S. Or better them choosing the Focal Utopia Micro Be. Or reward yourself with the best: Dynaudio Confidence C1...

Cheers!

[beden1]

Darko

Excellent critique, and I agree with your conclusions about the 703, 803S, and the 805S. I have not heard the other speakers you reviewed.

This will be a very helpful review for those looking to to add speakers in these ranges.

The 703's play to their potential in a dampened room, and may be more sensitive to electronics.

The 803S's may be more forgiving of electronics and room difficiencies, and are extemely well balanced speakers.

If you go with the 803S, and you decide to build a balanced surround system down the road, the HTM3S, or the HTM1 (the now discontinued model that you can find used on Audiogon or Ebay) would be excellent center channel speakers. Your surrounds could be the 805S.

[specialized]

Darko

Excellent critique, and I agree with your conclusions about the 703, 803S, and the 805S. I have not heard the other speakers you reviewed.

This will be a very helpful review for those looking to to add speakers in these ranges.

The 703's play to their potential in a dampened room, and may be more sensitive to electronics.

The 803S's may be more forgiving of electronics and room difficiencies, and are extemely well balanced speakers.

If you go with the 803S, and you decide to build a balanced surround system down the road, the HTM3S, or the HTM1 (the now discontinued model that you can find used on Audiogon or Ebay) would be excellent center channel speakers. Your surrounds could be the 805S.

Forgot to tell that for HT another thing is important.. Centar channel speaker..

For 683 there is pefecetly matched Center with fst, but i share the same opinion.. It's just overrated if u ask me..
For 703 there is a center channel, but it's designed for 705..So there is not a perfect center for 703.. I tested 703 with HTM61 (center for 683 speakers), but found out that still the HTM7 is better center even without fst.. For CM series there is perfect center only if u use CM1, and not for CM7.. And for 800 series there is wide range of proper centers.. If i decided to go with 805s, i'll use htm4, with 804 and 803 definitly htm3.

For rears in any combination i allready got CM1, and i think if there is no need for multichannel music, rears are not that important for HT...I still think Cm would do nice job (but im still not sure about this, becouse i still have not test the rears properly , maybe that would be next i'll try to find out).

Greetings

Darko

[specialized]

Well, as one of participants of the event... I'd say that definitely room interaction plays the crucial role in evaluating the whole sound. I basicaly share Darko's impressions, but want to add a few points more:

- I found Darko's room may be the biggest culprit which is pushing him ahead in his quest... Naked wooden base, flat hard walls, the same type of ceiling... Reverberations in midrange/presence beyond average critical treshold of tolerance, IMO. Personally, I could not listen music in such a room, but Darko seems to be well aware of this stuff, intending to keep deliberately this style for years to come... He's fairly maturated guy and I truly respect his choice to sacrifice the sound for other normal purposes...

- I was pleasently surprised how well the 803S coped with the the host(ile) room. Well, mid reverberations/sustains were taking its share all the time, but bass was thoroughly superior over other contenders, playing significantly better than in my room, even pushed by fairly lesser electronics...

- There was no contest between the 803S and 703... Naturally, the lesser emerged inferior in all respects. Frankly, I found the 703 almost unlistenable with some favorite Darko's music. Wild, uncultivated, rush-like sound all over, bass boomy and out of control, no focus..., but I'de blame rather the room than the speaker itself...

- In my room the 805S plays reasonably well, with superior imaging/focus etc over the bigger brother 803S. But... I listen fairly nearfield - from 2,5 or max 3 meters, and this is what pays off with mini monitors. From that distance I cannot hear the 803S in their best, I am fully aware of this... But at Darko's place (4 metres or slightly more distance) obviously the 803S takes his shining hour - much wider stage, incredibly well shaped taking into account the reverberations. 803S plays stunningly louder than the 805S - another surprise for me, even I was aware about their 90db sensitivity vs only 88db at the 805S. Men, that was difference..!!!

Verdict? 803S, by a wide margin, no contest...

But if one intend to use such a big speaker in rooms bellow 30 square meters or have set the listening chair at less than 12 feet, my recommendation is very simple. Avoid big guys like the 803S. Take the 805S. Or better them choosing the Focal Utopia Micro Be. Or reward yourself with the best: Dynaudio Confidence C1...

Cheers!

My room is 21 square meters plus opening of 6-7 meters.. So i got idea that we all agreed 803 was sound best comared with others.. Also compared with 805s.. We found that 805s are a bit laid back, and the vocal was very behind, like in the other room.. I did not feel the 803 like too big sound, and even i get them like smaller then 703 (if i close the eyes).
Also important thing is complete volume of the room..

We both have similar sized rooms, but what i found out:

1. U'r room is 5 x 5 = 25 (the worst combination if the sides are same specialy for bass)

My is 5.45 x 3.85 + opening 2.93m x 2.55m meters (it's still volume of the room, and one speakers if even positioned in this part of the room.

2. Celling at my place is 2.55 at u'r place as i read in last discusion is 2.35

So u'r volume is: 58.75 cubic meters.

My volume is 53.5 + 19 = 72.5 cubic meters

3. Listening position.. My speakers are 2.70 meters between them..
And i listen from 4.5 meters measured from center between speakers and distance from speaker to center of sweet spot where i listen is 4.80 meters, ur listening position is like 2.5 if im right?


So i still think it's very important what kind of room we have, listening position, and the complete volume of the room

One thing that i'm a bit afraid.. Between 803s there would be 2.7 or 3.0 meters.. So if i put HTM3, maybe it would be too close to speakers left and right (70 or 80 cm between htm 3 and left and right speaker)

What do u think about this? (To everybody )


Darko

[Zoran]

Being entirely/forever fundamentalistic two-channel guy, out of any mind content relating HT issues, I simply cannot comment the center speakers - I simply don't know anything about...

[specialized]

Being entirely/forever fundamentalistic two-channel guy, out of any mind content relating HT issues, I simply cannot comment the center speakers - I simply don't know anything about...

Simple.. Center is very important for HT and multichannel.. Hint for the center is to be as more similar sounding as possible as left right.. Ideal combination woul be the exactly same speaker.. But becouse it's hard to put verticaly big speakers centers are as similar as possible in timbre match, it's horizontal, and it's magnet shielded (it's not important any more with plasma and lcd)..

Darko

[beden1]

Simple.. Center is very important for HT and multichannel.. Hint for the center is to be as more similar sounding as possible as left right.. Ideal combination woul be the exactly same speaker.. But becouse it's hard to put verticaly big speakers centers are as similar as possible in timbre match, it's horizontal, and it's magnet shielded (it's not important any more with plasma and lcd)..

Darko

For my 703's when I used them as front L/R, I first used an HTM7 that did not work well for these speakers. I bought a used HTM1 and this was a terrific match. You could save some money buying used, and I bet the HTM1 is also great with the 803S.

[dknightd]

specialized, thanks for your summary. I'm sure you will like your 803s.

I know that now you say you do not want to use room treatments. But it
might be something to consider later.

[specialized]

specialized, thanks for your summary. I'm sure you will like your 803s.

I know that now you say you do not want to use room treatments. But it
might be something to consider later.

I got this point as well.. In this bad condition (bad room acoustic and not that high end electronics), 803s sound best.. Im also sure that they would get most from all speakers i tested if i upgrade something (room or electronic)..

So im very satisfied with sound quality with this conditions, but also a lot of potential for future .. I'm loosing the most money when i upgrade equipment.. With those speakers im sure i wont like to upgrade them again...

About room threatment.. Beside my Hi Fi hobby i have some others. Before i arange my room, i have read a lot about design, about architecture.. So After few years of reading and trying to understund the point of things (i like to be analitical and logical ), i doscover which is my style.. What i like, what really make me feel nice.. So the room in this way, get some of audio emotions (audio is still very high end sounding), but it getting back that emotion with style that i like... So that's why for now i wont do anything in my room (except small minimalistic carpets), and just enjoy the things.. If i ever have dedicated room for HT/Stereo, then i'll forgot the compromises and ill do everthing as perfect as possible in term of acoustic

I'll send u some pictures of test sessions that we have..

Greetings

Darko

[dknightd]

So, the next adventure is trying to fit room acoustics into the style you like.

[beden1]

So, the next adventure is trying to fit room acoustics into the style you like.

That's what I've been trying to figure out for two years now.