Bryston or Krell for 802D?

[Karma]

I trust that no one is confusing this talk about an amplifier's potential drive ability with its sound character. The specification is simply another uselful tool to aid in the search for an amplifier that is properly fitted to its impending load.

HI Reb,
Well said. And I hope you noticed that I said the same thing. I'm old enough to remember when the major hi fi publications said nothing about the sound of amps in their reviews relying almost strictly on the measured performance. That was the before the term "High End" was coined.

J. Gordon Holt changed all that when he started Stereophile whch reported no measurements at all. His was a lone voice in the woods when he insisted that amps that measured the same sound different. He started a revolution that we are now living in. He deserves a shrine.

Pavell,
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the measurements? If so, well, they look good, very good. And Stereophile's John Atkinson certainly knows how to run a correct test series. After all he is an electronics engineer and understands the testing protocol. I don't question that at all.

What we should all question is the correlation of the tests to the sound. And that's where our critical listening skills come into play. We must use the best test equipment available; OUR EARS. As Reb knows, this is my constant mantra which I keep pounding into thread after thread after thread......

Sparky

[PavelL]

How did you arrive at that?

James, that was said in response to Sparky's comment

...It is true that lower end amps play the power game... Here, the tests are manipulated to give higher apparent power. But the high end folks don't do this. They can't get away with it.

and should be considered only in context of what Sparky said. I gave links with measurements that show that both Mcintosh and Classe are of the "rated conservatively type"... I did NOT want to start a debate of wether the above-mentioned brands are "high-end" enough Neither did I want to end that exchange in a "pow pow :a> manner. We're no firing squad So my point again - most amps are spec'ed conservatively thus give to a novice an impression of being good.
Let me quote Sparky

What we should all question is the correlation of the tests to the sound. And that's where our critical listening skills come into play. We must use the best test equipment available; OUR EARS. As Reb knows, this is my constant mantra which I keep pounding into thread after thread after thread......

Sparky

[Relentless]

has anyone demoed a Krell EVO yet?
and while we are on the subject of amp comparisons.... does anyone here use an Electrocompaniet Nemo or a Pass Labs X600.5 with there 800D or 802D's? I would love to hear what an owner has to say because I only read what the people who are selling them say and bias always comes in play with those reviews.

[DL86]

I have heard the evo 402 amp and krell evo pre amp and cd player together powering a pair of focal grand utopia Be in a properly treated room. What can I say? Never heard anything like it. The system had everything zero faults. Extremely detailed and textured.

[Pedro]

DL86,

What about comparing the EVOs with old Classe A Krells? Do you think the new series got more airy and sweet highs (less fatiguing)???

[Guy]

has anyone demoed a Krell EVO yet?
and while we are on the subject of amp comparisons.... does anyone here use an Electrocompaniet Nemo or a Pass Labs X600.5 with there 800D or 802D's? I would love to hear what an owner has to say because I only read what the people who are selling them say and bias always comes in play with those reviews.

I have the Electrocompaniet AW400s powering my 802Ds. The AW400s are the model just below the Nemos. This combo is absolutely awesome.

I tried the Mac501s however I prefered the Electrocompaniet AW400s.

[peter clarke]

evo + 800D

has anyone demoed a Krell EVO yet?
and while we are on the subject of amp comparisons.... does anyone here use an Electrocompaniet Nemo or a Pass Labs X600.5 with there 800D or 802D's? I would love to hear what an owner has to say because I only read what the people who are selling them say and bias always comes in play with those reviews.

I have auditioned krell 402 and electrocompaniet nemo with 800 D's, the krell with minimal noise floor and detail a little bright, preferred the nemos of the two brands but purchased VTL 7.5/S-400, hard-core bass and a real 'life" feeling to vocals.

[Relentless]

I have auditioned krell 402 and electrocompaniet nemo with 800 D's, the krell with minimal noise floor and detail a little bright, preferred the nemos of the two brands but purchased VTL 7.5/S-400, hard-core bass and a real 'life" feeling to vocals.

do you recall the differences of the bass between the 402 and Nemo?

[colinjohnson]

The BW 801D was tested using Electrocompaniet NEMO.

I've heard 801D using just 1 (one) CAM400 for each speaker and the performance wasnt good for me. Using 2 CAM400, could be great deal, but for me a Krell or Electrocompaniet is a better choice

Electrocompaniet Nemo was designed to command the Nautilus... it's true

[colinjohnson]

b&w uses classe to test their speakers i heard somewhere, so why not? at the abby road studio, where some of the best rock music is produced i believe they use classe with 801d speakers.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=1621

I think Classe and B&W are the same company... or one owns the other.. not sure which.

[colinjohnson]

I prefer Mac.. but the truth is all the afore mentioned amps are good

[peter clarke]

evo 402 bass

Lou, krell 402 bass tight and forceful the outstanding feature of this amp the nemos up there but more tube-like in vocals, couldn't demo the evo 600 or 900 [ none at my dealer ] the choice between them probably dependant on type of music you prefer all contenders at this level

[Relentless]

I went with the EVO 400 mono's. After they burn in a bit(Krell had to make them for me because they didn't stock the Black ones?) I will give a comparison between them and the 4BSST I was using on the 800D's.

[DeepEndX]

I have demoed Classe 400M with Krell 750mcx with 800D. Both are amazing amps with different characteristics. I bought the Krell 750mcx. I listen to rock/hip hop (most people call it trash) majority of the time and my friends call it a waste . Krell has a much stronger thump in the bass, extremely detailed, unbelievable power, and a little sharp on the highs, which may cause fatigue. The Classe is a lot smoother and airy. If I can own both amps, I would tailor Classe to orchestra music/jazz/musical and Krell to rock/hip hop. Once in a while I would listen to orchestra music/jazz/musical in my Krell’s and I do find it fatiguing after long hours of listening.

Few months back I have demo Evo I and Evo II, which improved the original Krell fatigue factor drastically. It retained the strong Krell bass and the music is a lot warmer and the sound stage is amazing. I just purchased a set (2nd hand of course) and now I have to eat ramen for rest of the year.

I don’t’ have any experience with Bryston so I can’t help you in that field. Good luck!

[Pedro]

Relentless

I´m very anxious to read your full impressions about EVO 400. From your Bryston 4B sst will be indeed a huge improvement.

[Pedro]

DeepEndx

Good to hear your thoughts. I think the same as you, Krell is that amazing for bass demanding music like rock, metal etc... I will listen probably in the next days the 803D with EVO 222, and EVO 402. Ive heard 803D before with KCT and 400CX the sound was still amazing and not so fatiguing for my music taste. As you have noticed i expect a more airy and same bass with the Evolution combo.

What speakers have you listened with the Evolutions?

[DeepEndX]

I have the 800D's. The reasons I chose Krell’s, not Classe or Macs, are sheer power (like a bull), detailed, extraordinary bass, in your face sound stage. Krell's Evo is a significant upgrade compare to the previous models, MCX..etc with a steep price. I thought KCT and 750MCX were too fatiguing for all around listening as a combo so I used Conrad Johnson tube as my preamp (I know it’s a really weird combo.) After I listened to the Krell Evo I, and Evo II, I upgraded my pre and power amps. In my opinion, the Evo solved most of the brightness and coldness of the older models. You should ask your dealer to perform blind test for you between Mac’s, Classe, and Krell, you should be able to tell the differences between the amps due to different personalities. Each brand has its uniqueness. You should even tell your dealer to perform blind tests between the older Krell’s and the Evo’s due to the steep price. If you can’t tell the differences, you should go for the cheaper combos (consider yourself blessed.)

[Pedro]

Thanks Deepend!

So to your ears the Evolution 1+2 sounds better than Conrad+750MCX in any direction?

[DeepEndX]

Yes. Evolution Combo is a better match. The character between CJ and Krell is a little contradictory. Cj is warm, not as detailed, soft, and slow. Krell is power, detailed, bright. The Evolution combo is a better complement. Enjoy your audition.

[Relentless]

4B SST vrs. Evo 400

Well it is not fair to compare $20000 vrs. $3200 but here is a brief comparison.

The Bryston is good with the 800D at low to medium volume but when you turn it up the bass of the Bryston gets compressed and the highs get bright and edgy. If you look at the measurements of the Bryston you can see 8ohms= 325w, 4ohms=500w and 2ohms= 300w, this may be the reason that it has a hard time driving the 800D which likes to dip down to 2ohms.

The very first thing I noticed is that the Krell has a lower noise floor. The Krell is amazing!! The bass is tight and powerful, never lacking. The highs are accurate but doesn't have the edginess the Bryston has. The Krell draws you into the music and makes me want to listen to my music collection again. The Bryston changes the music as you pass the mid point volume wise but the Krell sounds the same from low to loud to very loud.

I am out of time at the moment but will give some more impressions as I continue to listen.

[Pedro]

wow, amazing notes. What preamp are you using with the EVO 400s?

I think Krells is making one of the best amps at market with the new EVOs. Best bass, and probably the best mid/highs

[wettou]

I have the Electrocompaniet AW400s powering my 802Ds. The AW400s are the model just below the Nemos. This combo is absolutely awesome.

I tried the Mac501s however I prefered the Electrocompaniet AW400s.

Were you able to get a good deal for the Electrocompaniet, I agree that the Electrocompaniet Nemo are outstanding amps and a match made in heaven for the 802D.

I wished I had the money I would buy three of them to drive my three front channels 802D.

[Guy]

Were you able to get a good deal for the Electrocompaniet, I agree that the Electrocompaniet Nemo are outstanding amps and a match made in heaven for the 802D.

I wished I had the money I would buy three of them to drive my three front channels 802D.

I got 10% off which was a fair deal.

Yes the Electrocompaniet & 800 series B&W go well together. Takes longer to learn how to spell the name than to break in the amps .

[DM3000 Owner]

Well it is not fair to compare $20000 vrs. $3200 but here is a brief comparison.

The Bryston is good with the 800D at low to medium volume but when you turn it up the bass of the Bryston gets compressed and the highs get bright and edgy. If you look at the measurements of the Bryston you can see 8ohms= 325w, 4ohms=500w and 2ohms= 300w, this may be the reason that it has a hard time driving the 800D which likes to dip down to 2ohms.

The very first thing I noticed is that the Krell has a lower noise floor. The Krell is amazing!! The bass is tight and powerful, never lacking. The highs are accurate but doesn't have the edginess the Bryston has. The Krell draws you into the music and makes me want to listen to my music collection again. The Bryston changes the music as you pass the mid point volume wise but the Krell sounds the same from low to loud to very loud.

I am out of time at the moment but will give some more impressions as I continue to listen.

This really is not fair. Are you comparing the amps at lower volumes? The 4b really cannot be expected to drive 800's very loud. You mentioned that they change the music after passing the midway point on volume. Did they perform poorly below that volume point?

I'm not sure if the 4b's work the same way, but Bryston monoblocks can be run in paralel or series depending on the load presented. If you chose the right configuration, the output is higher at lower impedence.

[Relentless]

This really is not fair. Are you comparing the amps at lower volumes? The 4b really cannot be expected to drive 800's very loud. You mentioned that they change the music after passing the midway point on volume. Did they perform poorly below that volume point?

I'm not sure if the 4b's work the same way, but Bryston monoblocks can be run in paralel or series depending on the load presented. If you chose the right configuration, the output is higher at lower impedence.

No, the bryston was fine at low volumes it is at loud volumes is where it shows fault on the 800D. I was looking at the 28B sst mono's and they have the same drop at 2 ohms. 8/1000w-4/1800w-2/1000w.

I am not knocking the Bryston amp, it ran the mains I was using before the B&W's great. I just didn't find it a great match for the 800D's.

[Pedro]

Agree with Relentless.

It's important an amp that works well in 2ohms then B&Ws always will output its deep bass

[Relentless]

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