Classe, Krell or Bryston for my 802d and htm2d

[rik71]

which is the best amplifier(three channels), between the classe ca3200 and the krell kav3250 or the bryston 6b?
thanks

[GregLett]

which is the best amplifier(three channels), between the classe ca3200 and the krell kav3250 or the bryston 6b?
thanks

They are all good amps. The best one is the one you like. Try to get an audition of all three if you can.

[htsteve]

They are all good amps. The best one is the one you like. Try to get an audition of all three if you can.

I agree with this. Your ears will determine which amp to buy. I have my 802D's and the HTM2D driven by McIntosh. I would suggest adding them to your audition.

[misterdoggy]

I have the same speakers and have tried Krell, Levinson, Pass Labs, McIntosh, Rotel and out of that list ended up with McIntosh, both for the looks and the soft warm sound.

Pass Labs was great sound didn't care for the looks, Levinson was sweet lots of detail and Krell lots of punch and the best Bass.

All rounder was the McIntosh 501's.

[owl1]

How about the arcam P1? I never see this mentioned here but had terrific thoughts when I hooked up ARcam 350 avr to my 803S's. Very musical if not quite as airy as some expensive contenders. The P1 on paper should be a lot better than the reciever and compete with just about any of the high end names on paper. I'll know more this week as I won a single mono P1 that I'm going to try on the HTM3S and see if it's the real deal and pick up 6 more of them.

[skuzzyb]

rik71, I think the varied answers you are seeing just about sums it up. You will get a lot of different combinations and only when you listen to them all and decide will you feel better about the decision. I too have listened to all of the above and found the Classe right for me, I use the CA2200 for my fronts and the CA3200 for my centre and rears. Did not care much for the Macs. There is one other option that I would recommend listening to and that is the Audio Research. Great warm sound and excellent dynamics, worth a listen if you can find them.

[RebelMan]

FWIW, I spoke to a B&W dealer (owner/manager) the other day that sells both Classe' and McIntosh. He said he prefered the look of the McIntosh but prefered the sound of the Classe' with the B&W's. He also went on to say that of all the big name brands that they carried the Classe' and the McIntosh synergized best with the B&W's.

I happen to prefer the look and sound of Classe' but I do think the McIntosh is cool, as in Harley Davidson cool.

[scanido]

Mcintosh and Classe can be thought of like Coke and Pepsi. Pretty much which taste do you prefer!?!

I've owned a bryston (3BST) and the sound was neutral and it did not give that much emotion. I can vouch for the McIntosh setup on the "S" tweeters. The smooth Mac sound tames them just enough so that they are not forward sounding and not bright as others may say. THey may be too laid back for the "D" tweeters, but others have said they work just as well so you may want to look into the Macs.

[rcg412]

I disagree with your dealer. He is pushing Classe and Mac b/c he sells it. Classe is always pushed b/c it is owned by B&W. IMHO, Krell matches the best with B&W and was the most "synergistic" brand paired with B&W until B&W purchased Classe.

Classe is a great brand, very warm sounding - and given the musical nature of B&W think it pairs nicely with a more forward, punchy amp.

Which leads me to Krell. I would echo Misterdoggys comments, that Krell with B&W has a very forward, rich, sound... a very musical combination. The Bass is tight, and punchy. I run 802Ds with Krell FPB-300, also tried it with my KAV-3250 (which powers an HTM2D and rear speakers)... it sounded fantastic and was a great combo, but the edge slightly went to the FPB-300 (However, the price diff is huge). I would imagine it sounds amazing with the EVO amps.

I am not a Macintosh fan. I think Macintosh sounds dull, lacks clarity... midfi sounding.

Hope this helps... Ross

[Pedro]

I would imagine it sounds amazing with the EVO amps.

I´m waiting to hear the EVOs with 803D. People are saying that the EVOs achieve the warmest sound of Krell at the topend, and keeping the bass punchy. If that´s true, could be the best electronic. The only problem is the price

[Pedro]

To me Krell, Classe and McIntosgh are exactly at the same level with diferent sounds.

Bryston isnt at the same level of them, IMO

[RebelMan]

I disagree with your dealer. He is pushing Classe and Mac b/c he sells it. Classe is always pushed b/c it is owned by B&W.

You are free to disagree but you don’t have all the facts.

The dealer hasn’t carried Classe’ nearly as long as Krell, Linn, Mark Levinson and Meridian and they only recently began carrying McIntosh. If they “pushed” any brand it was Linn. Most Classe’ dealers are privileged which means they had to earned the right to merchandise the brand. If the dealership “had” to sell Classe’ because they carried B&W no prior stipulations would have applied, but they did.

The dealer carried other speaker brands too like Dynaudio but there wasn’t nearly the interest as there was in B&W’s. Most consumers were interested in hifi sound at midfi prices and B&W catered to those crowds whereas the other esoteric name brands (that they, the dealer, carried) didn’t and for the most part still don’t.

As people’s tastes improved and funds allowed it was a natural progression for them to move up the B&W line and into higher-end electronics. Unfortunately, the other electronic brands didn’t sell well with B&W’s despite the dealer's attempts to promote them. Furthermore, the lack of sales from the other speaker brands that did pair well with non-Classe’ electronics didn’t help the situation for those brands and they began to loose their footing with the dealership.

Consumer demand enabled the dealer into picking up another brand, that being McIntosh. It wasn’t like the dealer hadn’t tried before. They always saw B&W and McIntosh as complimentary pairs but they couldn’t get approval to carry the brand. Another premiere McIntosh dealer in the area fought every attempt they made. Last year they finally won the manufacturer over and got the license. Needless to say, the premier dealer wasn’t too happy about that decision.

When I asked the dealer about Classe’ vs McIntosh sales I found the answer quite interesting. People coming into the dealership looking at McIntosh equipment for their B&W’s were mostly Home Theater aficionados not two-channel audio enthusiasts. He said critical audiophiles would spend most of their time listening to Classe’.

I see Classe' as a fine wine and McIntosh as a great beer.

[moonlightdrive21]

FWIW, I spoke to a B&W dealer (owner/manager) the other day that sells both Classe' and McIntosh. He said he prefered the look of the McIntosh but prefered the sound of the Classe' with the B&W's. He also went on to say that of all the big name brands that they carried the Classe' and the McIntosh synergized best with the B&W's.

I happen to prefer the look and sound of Classe' but I do think the McIntosh is cool, as in Harley Davidson cool.

I had the same exact experience with a dealer where he carried both, but preferred the Classe's sound.

After my own very long audition of Mcintosh amps vs. the Classe Delta Series amps (on 802D's) using various CD's and music types, I found the Classes to be superior for my taste.

Don't get me wrong, the Mcintosh's were also great and are also attractive looking if that kind of thing matters a lot to you. The bass, resolution and high end sound were notably better with the Classe amps for me. They both were comparable as far as being smooth and musical and providing a great soundstage.

The softness of the Mcintosh sound made them a little boring for me when listening to rock, jazz and anything lively. The Classes were punchier without a hint of harshness or brightness (the Mcs also did not have any hint of brightness). And with ballads, the Classes had superior detail. The 802D tweeters and Classe amps are a match made in heaven!

Good luck !!

[wettou]

I would agree after auditioning 802D on Krell, Levison, Bryston, Rotel, McIntosh and BelCanto amps.

I finally bought Classé as I thought the sound was very close to real instruments. Also they were awsome on both music SACDs and Movies.

I called both Classé and B&W in the UK and they told me that the new delta serie and Nautilus had been developed together to have perfect matching!

I have heard the B&W 802D with Electrocompaniet NEMo (AW600) Monaural Class A Reference Amplifier and that was the best of all!

Unfortunately a bit out of my price range, $15,000 an amp.

[Pedro]

Wettou, what Krells have you auditioned?

[wettou]

Pedro, I audition the KAV-2250

[Pedro]

OK. In this case Classe is better

[wettou]

Any one tried these sorry if you saw my question somewhere else

http://seymourav.com/amps.asp

[Relentless]

I have heard the B&W 802D with Electrocompaniet NEMo (AW600) Monaural Class A Reference Amplifier and that was the best of all!

Unfortunately a bit out of my price range, $15,000 an amp.

Keep an eye on Audiogon for some Nemo's. I see them go for $8000 a pair.

to the OP..... I would give Krell Evo's a listen. You can pick up a 402 for $10000 on Audiogon.

I know that is expensive but getting the right amp is important part to getting the most out of your 802D's.

[wettou]

That is much more reasonable, but I am thinking going digital more energy efficient

[style]

Hallo,

krell, Bryston,Classè, Mc, all famous And good "Labels" Every good in your
mode.


For me go with Classè. But this is my opinion.

Is not easy, make your choice.


good luck.

Omar

[rcg412]

to the OP..... I would give Krell Evo's a listen. You can pick up a 402 for $10000 on Audiogon.

Have you heard the 402 with 802Ds? Is it a big step up? (As compared to the FPB or CX series)

[dmccombs]

I hear the Pass LAbs amps are very nice, but they don't have a 3-CH amp.

Has the OP considered some older Classe Monoblocks blocks like the CAM-350s? I have heard they have better bass than the 3200, but the 3200 has cleaner mids and highs. They would be similar in price, so I guess ti would just be personal preference.

[rcg412]

You are free to disagree but you don’t have all the facts.

The dealer hasn’t carried Classe’ nearly as long as Krell, Linn, Mark Levinson and Meridian and they only recently began carrying McIntosh. If they “pushed” any brand it was Linn. Most Classe’ dealers are privileged which means they had to earned the right to merchandise the brand. If the dealership “had” to sell Classe’ because they carried B&W no prior stipulations would have applied, but they did.

The dealer carried other speaker brands too like Dynaudio but there wasn’t nearly the interest as there was in B&W’s. Most consumers were interested in hifi sound at midfi prices and B&W catered to those crowds whereas the other esoteric name brands (that they, the dealer, carried) didn’t and for the most part still don’t.

As people’s tastes improved and funds allowed it was a natural progression for them to move up the B&W line and into higher-end electronics. Unfortunately, the other electronic brands didn’t sell well with B&W’s despite the dealer's attempts to promote them. Furthermore, the lack of sales from the other speaker brands that did pair well with non-Classe’ electronics didn’t help the situation for those brands and they began to loose their footing with the dealership.

Consumer demand enabled the dealer into picking up another brand, that being McIntosh. It wasn’t like the dealer hadn’t tried before. They always saw B&W and McIntosh as complimentary pairs but they couldn’t get approval to carry the brand. Another premiere McIntosh dealer in the area fought every attempt they made. Last year they finally won the manufacturer over and got the license. Needless to say, the premier dealer wasn’t too happy about that decision.

When I asked the dealer about Classe’ vs McIntosh sales I found the answer quite interesting. People coming into the dealership looking at McIntosh equipment for their B&W’s were mostly Home Theater aficionados not two-channel audio enthusiasts. He said critical audiophiles would spend most of their time listening to Classe’.

I see Classe' as a fine wine and McIntosh as a great beer.

Personally I think your dealer is 100% spinning you with the brands they sell, the line: "Critical audiophiles would spend most of their time listening to Classe" is, in my mind, pure marketing. Classe is a great amplifier... but I would argue that its golden age has passed since the small Canadian boutique was gobbled up by B&W. The sound that was previously very warm, full and sounded as close to tubes, but not being tubes, has somewhat dissapeared... also think the build quality is not what it used to be (but neither is Krells, Accuphase, etc...). Most dealers that I have been to never pair the upper range of B&Ws (802Ds and above) with Classe...

Regarding McIntosh, its a very easy product to sell, and makes sense that home theatre folks eat it up... they are likely not listening as critically as 2 channel audiophiles. And McIntosh definitely has more sex appeal than Classe.

I noticed you are running all Classe gear (with amazing speakers ;x( ). Have you heard B&Ws with Krell, Mark Levinson, Accuphase or other high end amplifiers/components? I have seldom found synergy between the same Make.

I am definitely interested to hear strengths/weaknesses of your system in 2-channel.

[wettou]

Personally I think your dealer is 100% spinning you with the brands they sell, the line: "Critical audiophiles would spend most of their time listening to Classe" is, in my mind, pure marketing. Classe is a great amplifier... but I would argue that its golden age has passed since the small Canadian boutique was gobbled up by B&W. The sound that was previously very warm, full and sounded as close to tubes, but not being tubes, has somewhat disappeared... also think the build quality is not what it used to be (but neither is Krells, Accuphase, etc...). Most dealers that I have been to never pair the upper range of B&Ws (802Ds and above) with Classe.

Ok I am not a Classé rep or have any connections with the firm but you should educate yourself:

Places like Abbey Road Studios has upgraded all of its reference systems with both the new 800 Series and Classé CA-M400 amplifiers. "Immediately on hearing the new 800D's we decided to equip all of Abbey Road's control rooms that have surround monitoring. They are all biamplified by the excellent Classé CA-M400's and used in combination with the mighty new ASW855 sub." "New reference systems featuring no fewer than 33 Classé CA-M400 mono power amplifiers and 40 loudspeakers from the new B&W 800 Series"

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1621

In addition Studios around the world, B&W's 800 Series loudspeakers are reference standard loudspeakers that are currently used in recording studios around the world in combination with Classé in places such as Skywalker Sound, Sony Music Studios - NYC, among others. They are also used by classical music labels such as Philips and Decca in their studios to monitor recordings.

"The Classé CA-M400 and B&W 800D can already be appreciated through the superb sonics of early projects completed using it, including the recording and mixing of the musical scores to Star Wars, Episode III—Revenge of the Sith, and the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory"

Regarding McIntosh, its a very easy product to sell, and makes sense that home theatre folks eat it up... they are likely not listening as critically as 2 channel audiophiles. And McIntosh definitely has more sex appeal than Classe.

That is your opinion

[rcg412]

Ok I am not a Classé rep or have any connections with the firm but you should educate yourself:

Places like Abbey Road Studios has upgraded all of its reference systems with both the new 800 Series and Classé CA-M400 amplifiers. "Immediately on hearing the new 800D's we decided to equip all of Abbey Road's control rooms that have surround monitoring. They are all biamplified by the excellent Classé CA-M400's and used in combination with the mighty new ASW855 sub." "New reference systems featuring no fewer than 33 Classé CA-M400 mono power amplifiers and 40 loudspeakers from the new B&W 800 Series"

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1621

Educate Myself? Who cares what amplifier or speaker Abbey Road is using? Do you buy an amplifier or speaker because Abby Road Uses it? Albeit being cool, one should buy certain audio components because they like the way they sound. When I bought 802Ds, I was dead set on buying Wilson Sophias... but after listening to the two, I thought the 802D was the better speaker (and Abbey Roads choice of speaker/amp wouldnt of persuaded me either way).The B&W website just proves my point... Marketin! You dont think B&W gave abbey road a nice discount for using Classe so they could use it in their marketing materials? Ha, look at the rotel site - guess what speakers they are using?

Please don't take me out of context, Classe is a *great* amplifier... I am just saying that B&W specifically markets Classe with b/c it owns it...

Before Classe was purchased by B&W, Krell was almost EXCLUSIVELY what B&W used to demo their products at Audio shows. So much, that they even worked with Krell to create a B&W 800 external crossover (pops up on audiogon every so often, for matrix 800 series).

That is your opinion

Yes it is. :T

[Relentless]

Have you heard the 402 with 802Ds? Is it a big step up? (As compared to the FPB or CX series)

I have never had a chance to compare the two in my system so I can not comment on how big a step up it is, but I can say that the evo's drive my 800D's with complete control of the low end a smooth midrange and a clean, detailed top end and would do the same for your 802D's.

[RebelMan]

Personally I think your dealer is 100% spinning you with the brands they sell, the line: "Critical audiophiles would spend most of their time listening to Classe" is, in my mind, pure marketing. Classe is a great amplifier... but I would argue that its golden age has passed since the small Canadian boutique was gobbled up by B&W. The sound that was previously very warm, full and sounded as close to tubes, but not being tubes, has somewhat dissapeared... also think the build quality is not what it used to be (but neither is Krells, Accuphase, etc...). Most dealers that I have been to never pair the upper range of B&Ws (802Ds and above) with Classe...

Regarding McIntosh, its a very easy product to sell, and makes sense that home theatre folks eat it up... they are likely not listening as critically as 2 channel audiophiles. And McIntosh definitely has more sex appeal than Classe.

I noticed you are running all Classe gear (with amazing speakers ;x( ). Have you heard B&Ws with Krell, Mark Levinson, Accuphase or other high end amplifiers/components? I have seldom found synergy between the same Make.

I am definitely interested to hear strengths/weaknesses of your system in 2-channel.

The dealer had no incentive nor any motive to mislead the facts which I have accepted at face value. Seeing it any differently does nothing to change the truth but you are welcome to try.

The symbiotic relationship that has developed between B&W and Classé in recent years is quite remarkable and unlike any other in this field. Working together they have been able to fuse their ideas with state-of-the-art technology in an effort to push the audio envelope but neither has lost sight of its heritage. The warmth and fullness that has embodied the Classé house sound is just as relevant today as it has been in years past and that legacy will continue to live on as it does in their newer quality offerings like the SSP-800. It’s a given that there is always room for improvement and as good as Classé is it isn’t going to rest on its laurels.

I’m afraid I don’t share the same experiences that you had with B&W dealers and their strategies for promoting sales. Maybe they weren’t under any contractual obligation to sell Classé because they weren’t qualified or maybe they didn’t want to cannibalize sales from a competing line that had more aggressive stipulations. Who knows but then again who cares. For every reason you could list as to why one particular dealer would choose not to demo Classé with B&W speakers I can find a reason as to why another dealer does. À bon chat, bon rat.

Again we have another difference of opinion; in this case what constitutes sex appeal. Classé with its simplistic appearance, smooth surfaces and curvaceous lines exudes sex appeal. McIntosh, on the other hand, with its convoluted interface, fluorescent meters and sharp edges screams technopeal. It’s been said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I say beauty belongs to the eye that can see.

For what it’s worth, I have heard the B&Ws with all the brands that you have mentioned (plus Linn, Bryston and a few others) but not Mark Levinson. System synergy is almost always best when component choices come from the same make but there are a few exceptions to the rule. They generally occur when mixing solid-state devices with discrete electronics, namely valves, to achieve a colored result rather than a neutral one. A pragmatic decision albeit flawed.

By the way, thank you for the pleasant comment regarding my system.