Thinking of downgrading from 805 to 704. Advise?

[audioqueso]

Update posted at the end of the thread

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I'm moving back to Japan, and I've decided to sell my Parasound (already sold) and Marantz. Regarding my HT system, I am only taking my Velodyne sub, B&W 805's, and DVD player.

I was going to buy another pair of 805's and the HTM2. Then I started looking into what separates to buy since I won't have anything to drive my 805's when I get there, but I am getting ahead of myself. I know I will start get 'upgradities' and get stupid. So I'm thinking of just simplifying my system. I liked the 704s when I auditioned them. So maybe just get two pairs of 704, the HTM7, and an AV receiver and leave it at that for my house in Japan.

1) Your thoughts on switching from N805 to 704.

2) What's a good receiver to run the 704? I've had Marantz for a while and have been very happy. But being that it will be receiver only, what's a good choice for under $1200. 50/50 movie music.

Thanks guys.

[akhter]

Having recently moved to Japan, I can say that there aren't too many receiver choices out here. Hi-end is almost all Stereo only. Your choices are Denon, Yamaha and Integra. Marantz in Japan seems mostly Stereo or Sacd only. Its quite frustrating. My Arcam AVR300 got damaged when I moved to Tokyo from NYC but I haven't been able to find anything to replace it that costs less than 10x the price.

As for the matter of downgrading--i wouldn't even think about it. To me the 805 is a clear step above in terms of clarity and airiness, and coupled with a sub, much better than any lower range series speaker (FST or not). Ofcourse that is my opinion, and other might feel differently.

[Briz vegas]

Hmmm. No. Don't do it.

Nothing against the 704 but you will miss those N805 when they are gone.

I do casual listening to the radio via my 705 surrounds in the morning via a receiver then will use my 804s 2 channel system for a CD or two in the evening. Oddly enough l like the 705s more now than I did when they were my mains. This is a slightly bigger gap than you are suggesting, but no way could I give up the 804s.

If you are going to simplify your system with no surrounds and you have a small space I would suggest getting a nice 2 channel receiver or integrated, maybe a Krell KAV300i or 300r (there is a 300i on audiogon for $1250). I have heard the 300R on my 804s (oddly I ran it through my CJ pre as well so this may have altered the sound with the tubes - The Krell did not need the pre) - it made the Marantz sound completely lame by comparison and any thoughts of needing a sub went out the window. Of course 805 is easier to drive than 804 (relatively) but I would be surprised if you were not happy with a similar combo - much much much better than 704 driven by a multi channel receiver - its too much compromise when for the same money you can have a truely exciting sound. If Krell is not your taste I am sure others can suggest alternative amps, but give a good 2 channel amp a try and I reckon you will fall in love with your N805 all over again..................and I reckon a nice 2 channel system for minimalist HT/hifi is a far cooler solution also.

(just realised you said 2 pairs of 704 so you are getting surrounds - for movies that is not a bad solution but for 50/50 use I would still prefer the Krell solution over going for the lesser, but still nice, solution - music will suffer too much when you can downsize and upgrade - just my 2 cents worth)

Let us know what you decide

light reading http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/809/

[audioqueso]

Thanks Akhter and Briz for your input. I've listed a few questions and comments to the two of you.

Having recently moved to Japan, I can say that there aren't too many receiver choices out here. Hi-end is almost all Stereo only.

Ha ha.. tsk tsk Akher. I definitely need to show you the right places in Tokyo because there are a lot of high-end shops over there without costing an arm and leg. 8)

As for the matter of downgrading--i wouldn't even think about it. To me the 805 is a clear step above in terms of clarity and airiness, and coupled with a sub...

I do have a Velodyne sub that match nicely with my Nautilus 805's.

Akhter, how did you like the Arcam? Since starting this thread, I've been actually reading about the Arcam, NAD, and Marantz. The Arcam seems to be loved by everyone. But I wonder if that would be enough to keep my N805's happy. Your thoughts?

If you are going to simplify your system with no surrounds and you have a small space

The Krell did not need the pre) - it made the Marantz sound completely lame by comparison and any thoughts of needing a sub went out the window.... much much much better than 704 driven by a multi channel receiver.

Perhaps I didn't really explain what I meant by simplify. My set up has been a Marantz AV receiver as a pre, feeding a Parasound 5x140w amp, powering a pair of N805's, M1 rears, and Velodyne SPL-800R sub. For music, the 805+Velodyne combination has been wonderful. I love it. I can't complain about that. After having the M1s, I know that I will replace them with another pair of N805's once I get to Japan. I sold the Parasound a few weeks ago. I've been powering the N805's with only the Marantz receiver since then. It is very lacking without the Parasound amp. I know this.

My idea of simplifying was to have a simple HT/music set. Just have a really good AV receiver, two pairs of 704s, and the matching center. No sub, no addition amps. Just keep it simple. I like having separates (though I've never had a real dedicated pre-amp), but because of Japan's retarded idea to be different with voltage, I find myself limiting myself to only a few choices. It seems easier to just find a good AV receiver.

[akhter]

Ha ha.. tsk tsk Akher. I definitely need to show you the right places in Tokyo because there are a lot of high-end shops over there without costing an arm and leg. 8)

Which stores!!? Please tell me. The stores I have seen are Dynaaudio and Soundcreate in Akihabara, and AVC or sth in Shinjuku. Almost no HT gear--but a lot of very high end Stereo stuff. I even spoke to the Arcam distributer in Japan and they told me they don't bring any HT gear in Japan.

I do have a Velodyne sub that match nicely with my Nautilus 805's.

Velo sub is nice--I use a Velo DD12 with my N804 speakers.

Akhter, how did you like the Arcam? Since starting this thread, I've been actually reading about the Arcam, NAD, and Marantz. The Arcam seems to be loved by everyone. But I wonder if that would be enough to keep my N805's happy. Your thoughts?

Arcam AVR350 will handle the 805 quite nicely. I use the older AVR300 with N804. The ones they sell in Japan are the stereo stuff and they will be even better with 805. Obviously McIntosh is better, and with the discount they give in TK, my next purchase will be a McIntosh power amp--I will use the AVR300 as a pre.

If you live around Tokyo and want to audition my setup, feel free to PM me :T

[audioqueso]

Which stores!!? Please tell me. The stores I have seen are Dynaaudio and Soundcreate in Akihabara, and AVC or sth in Shinjuku. Almost no HT gear--but a lot of very high end Stereo stuff. I even spoke to the Arcam distributer in Japan and they told me they don't bring any HT gear in Japan.

I've sent you a PM. I know you're right about Akihabara. There really is a some nice gear there, but most of it is high-end stereo stuff. I've sent you a PM with some details

Velo sub is nice--I use a Velo DD12 with my N804 speakers.

I have the SPL-R series. The DDs are nice! I demo'ed the two side by side, but the price made a bigger difference for me. I'm very happy with my Velodyne though. If I do decide to keep my speakers, I'll probably end up buying a second Velodyne.

Arcam AVR350 will handle the 805 quite nicely. I use the older AVR300 with N804....

I was looking at the 350 and 300 specs. Is there really any difference? So do you think the AVR300 is enough to drive two pairs of N805s as good as a light/small pre-pro combo? Like Halo 125 amp?

[WI Rotel]

Sorry to disagree but 805 to 704 is not a downgrade in my book!

[audioqueso]

Sorry to disagree but 805 to 704 is not a downgrade in my book!

No? Could you please share your experience please. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

[akhter]

I was looking at the 350 and 300 specs. Is there really any difference? So do you think the AVR300 is enough to drive two pairs of N805s as good as a light/small pre-pro combo? Like Halo 125 amp?

The analog pre section in the AVR300/AVR350 is based on the pre of the AV8/9 (5-6k) and is exceptionally good. It is so good that unless you are spending 5k+ it will be hard to beat, unless you go stereo only.Think of it as a very good av processor with some free amps

The AVR300 is 140wpc in stereo mode and 110wpc when more than 2 chs are different. 110wpc vs 125 is not much of a differences in terms of output. you can also bi-amp the fronts with the 6+7chs (if you go with 5.1 instead of 7.1) with is an interesting feature. Since you already have the halo amp, you could get the avr300 and use that amp to see which you prefer. I have known people to use mcintosh amp with the avr300.

The difference between 300 and 350 is that the 350 does hdmi passthrough switching, and is supposed to have a slightly better transformer. Some poeple claim to be able to hear the difference--I can't.

[WI Rotel]

No? Could you please share your experience please. I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

The 805 is an excellent bookshelf monitor, but it is only that. The 704 is a mighty good floor standing speaker. With the 704 you will have greater output plus much greater bass extension, you might lose fractionally in high frequency definition, if at all since they use similar if not identical tweeters, same midranges and obviously the 704 has a real woofer. I don't know if you have compared them directly, you may be pleasantly surprised that as a standalone speaker you may actually preffer the 704.'
Sometimes I find it surprising taht people take it for granted that since a speaker is part of a higher series it must sound better than the entire lower series, that belief is patently false, for example the 703 has FST midranges which by definition will provide significantly better midrange accuracy than an 805 not to mention that they have much better bass reproduction. Thus don't feel you are downgrading at all you may actually be upgrading :T

[audioqueso]

The analog pre section in the AVR300/AVR350 is based on the pre of the AV8/9 (5-6k) and is exceptionally good. It is so good that unless you are spending 5k+ it will be hard to beat, unless you go stereo only.

Really???! Wow, I didn't know that. I may have to consider the AVR300 as a real option now... especial if it can act as a really good pre if I ever find the power is not adequate. However, to clear some confusion, I do not have the Halo amp. I was just asking how the AVR300 compares to something like a light power Halo amp. Let me rephrase my question: If you would compare the Arcam AVR300 to a separate combo like Halo pre + A52 125x5 amp (or Rotel pre + 1075 amp), would there be MUCH difference? As an owner of the AVR300, what do you think?

I don't know if you have compared them directly, you may be pleasantly surprised that as a standalone speaker you may actually preffer the 704.

Yes, I have carefully compared to two directly twice before. (I made long reviews before. :B) It's not a question whether I will like the 704. I know I like the 704. Regards of what's on paper, it is a very different speaker... and not only because of size. However, I've had the 805s for two years now. I have been use to very accurate sound, and wonderful female voices. From what I remember, the 704 was very good at localizing an image, which lead me to believe it was very good at movies too. However, would changing to a 704/HTM7/AVR300 5.1 setup still make me happy after be used to 805/Velodyne/Marantz/Parasound combo, you know.

Thanks guys for all the input.

[Briz vegas]

............you might lose fractionally in high frequency definition, if at all since they use similar if not identical tweeters, same midranges and obviously the 704 has a real woofer. I don't know if you have compared them directly, you may be pleasantly surprised that as a standalone speaker you may actually preffer the 704.'
:T

He may prefer the 704 however they are not identical drivers. I own both those tweeters and the midrange/woofer (ie 705/HTM7).

Implementation is slightly different on the 705 to the 704/HTM7 as the crossover is at a different frequency. Even this can make a difference to the speaker. If you look at the specs on HTM7 vs 705 the HTM7 distortion is lower at the high frequencies but the 705 has lower distortion down the bottom (and goes marginally lower). I suspect that B&W engineered the speakers at what they thought the consumer would prefer, plus taking the center speakers role into account - with the 704 they could have the best of both worlds because of the additional bass driver.

I think you will find that the quality of drivers and cabinet construction goes up as you go up in price - by that I mean that you get a cleaner sound with less distortion and colouration. For some folks less distortion wins (805) and for others moving more air is most important (704). Few of us can afford the D series where compromises are virtually absent.

[audioqueso]

Briz, I'm not considering the 705 at all. Though good info, I didn't get why you brought the 705 into comparison. Thank you though.

[dknightd]

I think you'd be better off with 4 805's and a sub - rather than 4 704's and no sub.
The 805's +sub won't take any more room to pack (will they?). It is only one more box (but I guess you'd need 4 more boxes for stands). They will take up more floor space, but no more room volume. I don't see what you gain by going from 805+sub to 704. Now if you wanted to simplify by going to stereo then getting two 703 might make sense. It really depends on what you wnat, and what you like, but to me it doesn't seem to me like you are really simplifying anything at all.

[audioqueso]

I see what you're saying. I don't want a 2-channel setup. And it really has nothing to do with the move itself. I really do utilize my system 50% of the time for music, and the other 50% on movies. Here is how I'm really seeing it:

- Replace my current setup with two pairs of 704s and matching HTM7. Buy Arcam AR300. And be done with it.

- Keep the N805 and Velodyne. Buy another pair of N805 and the matching HTM2. Buy a pre-amp, 5-ch amp.

The reason I use the word simplify because, being truthful to myself, I know I'll want to upgrade my pre/pro, DVD, cables, etc if I stick with to the 800 series. It's never ending. You know that. Somehow I feel that if I stick to the 700 series, I will feel my current components are good enough.

[dknightd]

I think you are making this too complicated. If you like what you have, keep it and add/upgrade as you see fit. Why complicate things by having to sell your current speakers and buy something new? Unless of course you think you'll like the new better than the old. An amp good enough for the 704 is also good enough for the 805. If it were me I'd smile, sit back, and be happy. But I don't like buying and selling, if that is part of what you enjoy, then you might be happier making a change.

[Russ L]

I'm assuming you are speaking of the Nautilus 805 and not the newer 805S. Its been 4 years since the N800 series was discontinued so your N805s are at least 4 yrs old. Nows a good time to sell to get a decent dollar return. The move to the 700s would be an upgrade since the 700 series was introduced shortly after the N800 series was discontinued and so are newer with more resale value. I believe improvements in cabinet, speaker design, and crossovers were introduced in the 700 series. Personally, I think the 704s are one of the best speaker values in Hi-Fi. :T Visually the 700 series is the best of the B&Ws IMO. -Russ

[audioqueso]

I think you are making this too complicated. If you like what you have, keep it and add/upgrade as you see fit. Why complicate things by having to sell your current speakers and buy something new?

Yeah.... I think you're right.

Hey Ahkter, either way I need to buy a pre/pro or av receiver. Do you have any comment on the pre/pro vs AVR300 question I asked?

[pbarach]

I seen occasional posts suggesting that B&W may discontinue the 700 series, leaving the new and improved 600 series and the 800's. Anyone know if this is true?

I have two 704's plus a sub for a music-only system, and I have been happy with them. They are powered by a 200 wpc Carver amp, but the wattage indicators on the amp show that they don't need much power even at relatively high volume levels, since the "heavy lifting" below 50 Hz is taking place in the sub's amplifier. My guess is that any receiver with clean sound would do fine with these speakers if you also plan to use a sub with them. Without the sub, the bass extension on the 704's didn't make me happy. For example, on acoustic jazz bass, I never really felt the bass, so I suspect that most of what I was hearing was the overtones. With the sub, I feel it through my feet.

[wgriel]

I seen occasional posts suggesting that B&W may discontinue the 700 series, leaving the new and improved 600 series and the 800's. Anyone know if this is true?

I've heard something along those lines as well, though nothing authoritative. The rumors I've heard indicate that a likely "replacement" would come through new models in the CM line.

In any case, I don't worry about such things - my 703s will continue to sound amazing whether they are a current model or not! :T

Bill

[akhter]

My dealer was suggesting that there is no direct replacement, and the CM + XT series, are the successors, with the new 600 covering the bottom. He also seemed fairly certain that the CMs were better than the 700, but I haven't compared them side by side to agree or not.

I do have to say that I usually trust this dealer (except when it comes to power conditioners and cables ).

[wgriel]

My dealer was suggesting that there is no direct replacement, and the CM + XT series, are the successors, with the new 600 covering the bottom. He also seemed fairly certain that the CMs were better than the 700, but I haven't compared them side by side to agree or not.

I have done some side-by-side comparison, and I definitely like the 700 series better. Interestingly, my dealer felt the 700s were superior to the CM series, but I've heard 2 other dealers claim the CM series were better.

Bill

[RebelMan]

Its been 4 years since the N800 series was discontinued so your N805s are at least 4 yrs old. Nows a good time to sell to get a decent dollar return. The move to the 700s would be an upgrade since the 700 series was introduced shortly after the N800 series was discontinued and so are newer with more resale value. I believe improvements in cabinet, speaker design, and crossovers were introduced in the 700 series.

Russ, the 700's were introduced in '03 and the new 800's in '05. The N800's were discontinued in '04. The 700's are common to the N800's not the new 800's but the new CM's and 600's are.

[hifiguymi]

The 700 Series is going to be the next series replaced and B&W have talked about dropping the 700 moniker. It very well may be the CM Series expanding and taking that slot in their line. Nothing is official as of yet however. I told my rep I think B&W have a lot of equity in the 700 Series and to keep that as a model range and he agreed. He passed it on to his boss but time will tell what happens.

Eric

[jack667]

If you are not happy with the N805 then it can be strange living with something you want to replace.

I already had my arse kicked for comparing the 805 and 703/704 - so I suppose it depends if you want "full range" fronts or not.

Strange that I have read in several places that the new 600 series 683 is between the CM7 and 703 in terms of sound quality.. but I this I cannot comment on.

I "downgraded" from Monitor Audio GR20s ($3000) to B&W 685s ($600) and apart from them not been anywhere near as deep in the bass, I found them so much better in every single area - detail, soundstage, (insert more nonsense audiophile terminology here - ha joking!) - apart from perhaps vinyl finish instead of veneer!

Interested to know what your outcome is though..

Good luck

[WI Rotel]

My dealer was suggesting that there is no direct replacement, and the CM + XT series, are the successors, with the new 600 covering the bottom. He also seemed fairly certain that the CMs were better than the 700, but I haven't compared them side by side to agree or not.

I do have to say that I usually trust this dealer (except when it comes to power conditioners and cables ).

Replacing the 700 with the XT makes sense sonically since they are very close if not identical in character, however, not everyone, and probably a minority, are "aluminium look" pundits. Expansion of the CM series however makes sense to preserve BW's vaunted cabinetry. As to whether the CM is better to the XT...... I haven't sat down with both of them. The FST mid, however presuposes better midrange resolution, however, the XT with its tweeter on top probably has better dispersion and the same high frequency transparency, thus making it better for HT.
IMO if there is a deficiency on the XT its the midlows, however, when paired with the PV1 with a set cross over at around 60 Hz that "mudiness" disappears completely.

[Ted]

My dealer was suggesting that there is no direct replacement, and the CM + XT series, are the successors, with the new 600 covering the bottom. He also seemed fairly certain that the CMs were better than the 700, but I haven't compared them side by side to agree or not.

I do have to say that I usually trust this dealer (except when it comes to power conditioners and cables ).

Well, I'm far from an authority on comparing speakers, but I'll make a brief comparison. As I write this, my 2 week old (most likely not totally broke-in yet) CM7s are sitting where my 703s usually do. I use the 703s for 2 channel only and my CM7 are from my HT. I thought it'd be fun to listen to the CM7s on my 2 channel system however, and here we are.

As I said, I am probably a poor person to write a comparison, but here's my impressions:
The most obvious difference to me is the 703s more forward/bright highs. I'm pretty used to their sound and as I've stated in other posts, I really only find this a problem when I have them too loud anyway. Having said that however, the little more relaxed highs on the CM7 is ... how should I put it? Refreshing? Maybe a little more relaxing? I'm not on edge quite so much (is that anything like listener fatigue?).

I'm sure there must be a difference in the mid-range somewhere, but honestly I don't hear it.

The 703 have better bass. Better as in more full, cleaner, abundant. I would expect this given is has two bass cones vs one. However, I don't feel that the CM7 is lacking at all, it is just not as good.

I believe the 703 image better than the CM7. I assume, maybe wrong that this is due to the tweeter being on top vs in the cabinet. The 703 also reveal detail a little more. Again, maybe from the separate tweeter or the more forward sound, both?

Aesthetically, I like the 703 better. The veneers (I think) are beautiful on both, but the CM7 are smooth and almost look fake, vs the grain being visible on the 703. The cabinets on the 703 are just more hefty too.

I think the 703 are better overall (they better be, I paid a lot more for them than I did the CM7s :W ), but just that step forward. When I bought my 703, I almost saved more for the 804, but just couldn't justify it. I'd say the 703 are just a little closer to the 804 than the CM7 is to the 703. Now, if B & W expended the CM line, maybe added some speakers with the tweeter on top and other improvements, I could see the CM line replacing the 700s.

Okay, there's my comparison. Remember, everything I say should be considered the truth and seen as gospel! :roll: :W Okay, those are my opinions for whatever they are worth.

[audioqueso]

Thanks Ted. It was very easy to understand what you meant. (Though neither 703 or CM7 are the speakers in discussion. lol) Just kidding.. but thank you because it was a good comparison judging only with your ears (and visually your eyes).

[Ted]

Okay, Okay, you're right, they aren't what the thread is about (but I'm not the one that brought them up at least!! :W ). Okay, since I better make a post that relates to the thread, I say you stick with what you have. If you like them or don't have any complaints, why switch? Of course, sometimes we feel we just need to get some new "stuff"! Good luck!

[audioqueso]

So this weekend I was able to audition both the 704s vs the 805S. So yeah... it would definitely be a downgrade.

The dealership had a matrix switch with lots of different intergrated amps/av receivers and CD player. I choose the Marantz SA-11S2, one of the Marantz black hi-fi CD players, and a Classe (gorgeous looking) as the CD player. For the amp section, I choose a Marantz SR7002 (AV receiver), Marantz SC-11S1, and Denon PMA-SA1. Most of the music was Japanese, so no point mentioning it, right? ha ha

Ok, so on to the sound. The 704 had a bigger range, that's an obvious. But the biggest difference (I don't remember why I was surprise because I wrote about it in one of my reviews), but 704 sounded like a speaker, as oppose to the 805 that really just disappeared. You could tell the music was coming from a box when playing it through the 704. With the 805, it was liquid smooth (also keep in mind that I haven't used my speakers since I moved back in September). My wife asked me, so do you like the 704. I instantly nodded my head no. It was that simple of a decision.

However, I did find something interesting. How much difference the source makes. I listed the amps and sources that I used, right? Well, if I used the Marantz cd player (the lowest one in the class), the amp didn't make that much of a different. Switching between the Denon PMA-SA1 amp, Marantz SC-11S1, the SR7002 really didn't make that much of a different to either speaker to me using the lower CD player. By the way, I choose these two brands because 1)I've been looking at either a Marantz or Arcam and 2)Out of all the amps they had (McIntosh being the highest brand), the dealer favored the Denon as the best... so I just took his recommendation. (I want to liste to an Arcam, but no avail). But if I switched to the much higher Classe or Marantz SA cd player, the music because so much more vivid, detailed, and 3D. When using the higher quality CD players, the Marantz AV receiver really became the bottleneck. It held back the music a lot compared to the other two higher quality amps.

So if you have an AV receiver as your pre, don't buy a CD player THAT expensive cause you'll be bottlenecked. So that was my observation. :B

My favorite combination was the B&W 805 with Marantz SC-11S1 matched with either high end CD player. The music sounded sooooooo good! Just for kicks I threw in a Rotel combo in there, and there was no comparison. It was just so liquid smooth and detailed and natural sounding.

So I'll be keeping my 805s. :B :B :B

[RebelMan]

So if you have an AV receiver as your pre, don't buy a CD player THAT expensive cause you'll be bottlenecked. So that was my observation. :B

Precisely! If I have said it once I have said it a million times the pre/pro section OWNS the signal. Next to speakers it is the single most influential part of ANY system.

So I'll be keeping my 805s. :B :B :B

Wise choice! :T

[pbarach]

So if you have an AV receiver as your pre, don't buy a CD player THAT expensive cause you'll be bottlenecked. So that was my observation. :B

My 704's are powered by a Carver m1.0t amp and a Carver CT-7 preamp, with a Paradigm device that sends the lows (below 50 Hz) from the preamp to a sub.

I can definitely hear the difference between my Marantz CD-67SEII player and an inexpensive Sony DVD/SACD player through this system.

[audioqueso]

Precisely! If I have said it once I have said it a million times the pre/pro section OWNS the signal. Next to speakers it is the single most influential part of ANY system.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I found the biggest difference when I changed the source. Using the lower class Marantz cd player, it didn't make that much of a difference if I used the $1000 AV receiver vs the $10k intergrated amp. The CD player was the bottleneck.

If I used the higher class Marantz SA series or the Classe, the AV receiver became the bottleneck. The Marantz SC-11S1 or the Denon PMA-SA1 combined with those CD players (a CD player of the same caliber as the pre/pro), the music just shined through.

Basically, what I found is that it really doesn't make a difference to have a really high-end CD player with a lower end pre/pro, or vice versa.

[Briz vegas]

I think what you are saying fits with my experience (correct me if I am wrong)

My starting point
NAD DVD into Marantz7300ose into Nakamichi power amp into 804s :roll:

Tried replacing the NAD with a Naim CD player -
Kept the NAD and replaced the Marantz with a CJ 2 channel pre -
Later reintroduced the same Naim CD player

Since then I have had a couple of more upgrades (amp, interconnects) and I have heard my system with upgraded cables all round (next upgrade) ;x( .

I guess this confirms your previous comment about the slippery slope of upgrades. I really really want to stop once I have the upgraded cables installed some time next year.

I may start a new thread - upgraditus anonymous - but not before I get those cables. I can't pass up on that gorgeous foot tapping sound.

[RebelMan]

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Basically, what I found is that it really doesn't make a difference to have a really high-end CD player with a lower end pre/pro, or vice versa.

I understood. The point I made in support of your conclusions was that the differences between pre/pro's will always out weigh the differences between like sources.

[audioqueso]

I understood. The point I made in support of your conclusions was that the differences between pre/pro's will always out weigh the differences between like sources.

Ok... maybe we're on the same page. :B
Hey, I just realized your an SE too. :T

[sandalsocks]

audioqueso,

I know you probably already made your decision but to add my 2 cents... I'm in a similar boat but deciding to buy something new from scratch but want to keep it simple in regards to keeping the electronics and upgraditis in check.

I totally agree, the 805s perform so smooth and effortlessly while the lower models perform well but give up something in return. I find the cm7 a good bang for the buck, the 703 was awesome but pricey and then the 805s (the cost very similar to the 703 with stands) did everything great minus low end bass. The bass would be covered regardless with a sub b/c I will have it for HT.

[audioqueso]

Thanks for your input Sandalsocks. I did listen to the CM series and new 600 series just a little bit while I was at the dealer. Yes, they are a good bang for the buck, but that is not an option I was even considering. Thank you though.

I've had my 805s matched with a Velodyne SPL sub. It took me a bit to find a sub to match my likings, but I'm glad I went with this sub. It blends so well with the 805, so the bass department is not something I was concern about. I was originally questioning whether I should get a pair of 704s vs the 805 + Velodyne combo. From what I recall the 704 sounding like (back when I auditioned it a few years ago), I thought I would be satisfied. But after listening to it again this weekend, I realized I was too use to the clarity of the 800 series and going backwards towards the 704 would be something that would I ultimately regret. I am satisfied with my speaker selection. It will do for the time being until I can buy the 802+ range.