Comparison of old cdm9NT and N804/805 (not so new anymore)

**mrkiko** · 10 January 2005, 14:56 Monday

Kate,

All the choices are good value for the money, depends on what you want to do in the future. If you plan to buy a reciever then probably you should choose option B, the N805s, and possibly add a sub later (that's quite cool for music either). A reciever wouldn't drive N804s.

However, as many on this forum might agree, even the 805s needs more current that usually a reciever can deliver.

Having this said, i would go for the N804s, and add a pre/pro + final amp.

If you want to do this by stages: buy a reciever first, then later, use it as pre/pro and add a separate final amp, or find a shop where you can later return it, and buy instead the separates.

If you wish to stick to the reciever route, than i would consider series 6, because the Nautilus will simply not sound good enough.

**sikoniko** · 10 January 2005, 15:15 Monday

A N804 - 2600 euro demo w/ the arcam

The 804's are more 3-dimensional than the 805's. The first thing I noticed was a significant difference in percussion on the 804's over the 805's.

**kate** · 10 January 2005, 15:24 Monday

Mrkiko has a good point about the receiver.

I am not 100 % convinced which amplifier /receiver I want to get.

My two options:

Arcam avr 300 - and bi-amp the front speakers..in a couple of years i could add on speakers for a surround sound.

More likely, and my favorite at the moment:

A85 and P85/3

Is the cdm 9nt easier to drive with power than the N 805?

The problem is...I think I want to keep the speakers for a longer time....it is more likely that i will upgrade an amplifier/receiver..than i would my speakers.

But yet again....is the a85 p85 arcam strong enough for the N804 or N805?

mmmmm.....

thanks for the fast replies sikoniko and Mrkiko

**Twincam** · 10 January 2005, 15:39 Monday

All are great speakers, the 804's is what I would choose. If they are worth the extra compared with 805..well I think so, but I recommend that you listen and judge for yourself. The 804, and partially the 9NT are more power hungry than the 805, but even connected to a Rotel AV receiver with only 100W per channel like the RSX-1065/1067 (or the integrated amp RA1070), I prefer the 804 for music. Also note that you always can't compare power specs between different brands & models.

Then it's another thing that the 804 deserves that you connect them to a better and more powerful amp, and will greatly reward you if you do so. Since you seem more interested in 2-channel, why not the Rotel combo RC1070/RB1080. There are better and more musical amps (and, again, more expensive), but this combo is good value IMO. If your budget don't allow this, or if you don't want to buy a second hand amp, I would instead go for the 805's. But if we talk Rotel (power)amps again, I would not go for anything lower than the RB 1070.

Best regards

**ti33er** · 10 January 2005, 15:39 Monday

Hi Kate

If I were you (seeing as you might spend enough to buy seconds 804's) I might wait and demo the new 805's (£1600) that are coming out - if you have ever listened to the Signature 805's you would undoubtedly know that they are incredible speakers, and conveniently compact (making them easy to move about as well; + nice to look at) - apparently the new 805's are even better than the Signature 805's, and easier to drive meaning that a receiver might suffice!?

...just my 2c

PS. HiFi Experience in London are getting them in on Thursday, I am there like a bear, and will tell all what I can make of them!

**mrkiko** · 10 January 2005, 15:42 Monday

The 9NTs are power hungry too and IMO sounds worst then the N804.
I know that i'm talking from your wallet here, but go for the 804s. The speakers are the most important in the chain. You can then build a system around them.

Electronics are changing fast. So you may upgrade them anyways. If you get the "virus" you won't be able to wait 2 years for an upgrade.

The P85 is not a bad idea. A very good start, but still not enough.

**ti33er** · 10 January 2005, 15:55 Monday

hmmm I recently demo'd the entry level 805's, Signature 805's, and then the 804's directly afterwards - the only thing that I (and my lady) thought was better on the 804's vs Sig'805's was the bass...the Sig'805's seemed more "alive" and articulate. I personally would take the Sig'805's over the 804's for music (currently Sig'805's + HTM stands are a little more pricey than 804's of course)

...anyway, don't learn the hard way - you must take your favourite CD's along and do some listening before you buy though, this I cannot stress enough! Also, I agree about speakers being the main ingredient, build your system around your preferred speakers!

**kate** · 10 January 2005, 16:07 Monday

Thanks ti33er for your 2 cts.

I'll be really interested to hear your opinion after thursday :-)

Thanks twincam for your advice as well. I have read a lot of good things about the combination rotel-b&w because they have the same owner it seems.
However seeing as i am living in holland , rotel is very expensive compared to america(unfortunately).

**Miroku** · 10 January 2005, 19:08 Monday

I have CDM 9 NTs and I love them. I'd go for those and get a Rotel RB 1080 amp to power them, and also a Rotel RC 1070 preamp. If you can get that combo and still have an extra 1100 euro in your budget, then go with the 804s.

The CDM9s have great imaging and detail. I would try to compare them to the 804s as directly as possible. Theyre almost as good, for much less money.

Edit: I recommend the pre-amp and power amp combo because I Think a receiver wont do much justice to any of those speaker models. I used to use a receiver with my CDM9NT and they were OK sounding, but adding a power amp to them really opened them up.

**junior77blue** · 10 January 2005, 19:33 Monday

Well, its like this...if you never hear the 804s then, yes the CDM series sounds great!! But once you hear the 804s you won't want to listen to the cdm series.

If i'm not mistaken, the new 700 series REPLACED the CDM series and improved in overall sound quality. The 800 series are just a bit better. I wouldn't pay retail prices for the difference but, if you can get urself a good deal especially on a demo or 2nd hand pair...go for it!

**Fraise** · 10 January 2005, 19:48 Monday

i've owned CDM 9NT's and nautilus 803's but i've also heard the 804's at the store. my opinion, i would go for the CDM's simply because that gives you an extra 1100 euro to spend on an electronics which could be the difference between a receiver and a pre/power setup. i think the extra money spent on amplification could make the CDM's sound better than the 804's. try and go demo all of these speakers with different levels of amplification and see which sounds best to you. what is your total budget for the system?

i'm assuming 803's are out of the question due to the price right?

**junior77blue** · 10 January 2005, 19:56 Monday

I disagree with you Fraise.

If your making a LONG term investment, why short change yourself on speakers? I think everyone will agree, speakers have the BIGGEST impact on the sound quality. Granted good electronics do come into play and you need to find a balance.

But in the end you really need to listen to these speakers yourself and hear the differences between them and make the decision whether the added cost is justified or not.

**Fraise** · 10 January 2005, 20:11 Monday

Originally posted by junior77blue

I disagree with you Fraise.

If your making a LONG term investment, why short change yourself on speakers? I think everyone will agree, speakers have the BIGGEST impact on the sound quality. Granted good electronics do come into play and you need to find a balance.

well i guess it all comes down to the budget or we'd all have signiature 800's right?

if you're making a long term investment then definately go with the 804's but be prepared to spend more on components in the future. in the end, it all comes down to how much you want to spend. i was just assuming she doesnt have an unlimited budget and wanted to get the best setup she can right now.

another aspect you have to think about too though in regards to a long term investment point of view is how flexible the system is when you decide you want to change. a CDM setup with a pre/power combo has more options than 804's with a receiver right?

**junior77blue** · 10 January 2005, 20:51 Monday

Originally posted by Fraise

another aspect you have to think about too though in regards to a long term investment point of view is how flexible the system is when you decide you want to change. a CDM setup with a pre/power combo has more options than 804's with a receiver right?

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you please help me understand.

I agree with you about making a decision, all at once or in pieces. I typically recommend people with a limited budget to buy pieces at a time or as they can fit into they're budget as opposed in trying to buy it ALL at once. Granted, you will have to 'wait' but once it is together you will be much happier.

**Fraise** · 10 January 2005, 21:08 Monday

Originally posted by junior77blue

Not sure what you mean by that. Can you please help me understand.

I agree with you about making a decision, all at once or in pieces. I typically recommend people with a limited budget to buy pieces at a time or as they can fit into they're budget as opposed in trying to buy it ALL at once. Granted, you will have to 'wait' but once it is together you will be much happier.

well i think it makes more sense to go with a pre/power setup over a receiver because if you do decide to change the speakers you have the option of getting a larger amp without having to change the preamp. basically it gives you more options in the long run which i'm sure you'll agree is beneficial. i just got the impression from reading the initial post that this was going to be a stereo that was had for a long time and not changed on a near monthly basis like many of us do.

my other reasoning for saying the CDM's with extra money on amplification is no reciever that i've seen so far will drive either the CDM's or nautilus line like a pre/power setup can. so you can have CDM's properly driven, or 804's driven by a less powerful receiver. thats the way i see it at least having gone a very similar route only with 803's. after going from an older SAE 100W/ch to a classe CAV-180, it was obvious to me how important the proper amp was. did the 803's sound great before? sure, but with the classe the bass response and detail in the midrange was increadible.

**Miroku** · 10 January 2005, 21:16 Monday

I think really it comes down to Kate's budget.

I made my recommendation based on trying to save money. I think cdm9 nts with good Rotel separates will sound better than any nautilus with a cheapo receiver. If Kate can afford the 804s and separates or a really nice receiver maybe that is the best.

Personally I wouldnt look at the 805s as an option without a sub. Theres just not enough bass for me.

**junior77blue** · 10 January 2005, 21:39 Monday

Agreed, 805s really need a sub.

And most definately comes down to kate's budget and 'plan' on when/how to purchase the equipment.

maybe the 804s, with a good used reciever to get by till she can save more money for some nice seperates. And I find it easier to sell used electronics than it is to sell speakers.

**Jeff** · 10 January 2005, 23:13 Monday

I think Kate said it in her second post. She would like to go with a long term set of speaker and upgrade as needed from there. Begin with the 804 and start your audio adventure! :T There are a lot of good used amps which would be more than adequate for the 804's. The pre/pro you may want to purchase new. You may have done a lot of research on receivers but I would recommend expanding it to seperates.

It's likely the audio market in the Netherlands is far different than that found in the U.S. or elsewhere. As Kate pointed out, Rotel is on the high side. There's should be a good selection of used amps which would be suitable to drive the 804's. Perhaps pickup up a used amp for 50% ore more off retail could be a consideration. I'm sure a 5-6 year old amp by one of the better amp mfr's would be fine in the short or long term.

Kate, continue to do your research and good luck!

Jeff

**Twincam** · 11 January 2005, 02:57 Tuesday

The new 805S is an interesting suggestion, and I would also recommend that you listen and compare them with the 804. Like said, they are supposed to offer the same (or better?) sound quality as the Signatures 805. Or maybe your dealer has a pair of demo Sig 805 for a good price now when the 805S are coming? The Sig. 805's are among the most beautiful speakers I've seen:

(this in difference to the CDM 9NT which are just butt ugly IMO)

**DanR** · 11 January 2005, 07:12 Tuesday

I would buy the 804's now with the discount. Even if the new 805's sound as good as the "old" 804's- you have lost nothing. None of us has heard these speakers, so some might be disappointed, and then you will have missed an opportunity to purchase the 804's at a great price. I'm a skeptic and believe the 804's will still sound better than the new 805's. The driver arrangement and physics are on my side. Once you have the 804's, you are set for quite awhile with awesome speakers and can then begin your journey of finding the right Rotel equipment for yourself. I personally feel the Rotel line is a superb match for B&W. A used RB-1070 or 1080 amp coupled with an RC-1070 pre-amp will be a treasure you can enjoy for years and years.

**Jeff** · 11 January 2005, 23:56 Tuesday

I never get tired of looking at those S805's. Nothin but class!

**Dutch in USA** · 12 January 2005, 02:46 Wednesday

Wouw Kate,

People are jumping up and down to give you advice. There is a lot of emotion in these postings, so you came to the right place!

As I am Dutch too, I might have the edge here: Nederlandse oortjes :wink:

As you might have read in other threads, I used to own Signature 805's. These speakers are the best bookshelf sized speakers I have heard to date...granted..I do not normally go for the smaller ones, but these sound truly excellent. Their detail and accuracy is so rich and the bass is so incredible that it is hard to believe they are that small. But.. they perform best in "smaller" areas up to say 35m2. Knowing the Dutch housing standards, this could well be enough for your needs now and in the future. When they need to perform in a larger room they will miss the volume that larger speakers can offer. At the time my living was 20m2; 2.7 high, when I moved to a house with a living of about 45m2 and 6m high ceilings... they were sadly lost. Adding a subwoofer is not bad, but would not fully compensate for detailed, tight bass in the higher tonal regions. This needs to come from your main speakers.

I personally opted for the S805 vs. the 804 as I wanted precision over power. A small side bonus for me were the stunning looks, but the 804's are no monsters either.
Remember that the stands are not exactly free, but needed.
Too bad you do not live in the neighbourhood, my "old" ones can be bought for $3000 incl. stands. They are still in mint condition and already broken in! If I could use them properly I would buy them back myself...

ops:

Amps..well, I think the other crew members already spelled it out for you. Go with seperates or as a last resort start with a receiver that you can use as pre-amp later on.
Good speakers with proper cabling (do not save on this please!) are the back bone of a great set up, source and power are easier replaced as changes in these area's are going much faster. And I speak from experience when I say: "new" does not equal to "best".

Have fun on your field trip! :T

Comparison of old cdm9NT and N804/805 (not so new anymore)

Comparison of old cdm9NT and N804/805 (not so new anymore)

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