Nautilus 805's - Is 50 watts sufficient?

[audioqueso]

Hi Everyone!

I don't have any audio gear at the moment. Just my B&W N805's and Velodyne sub (and music server which is useless without audio gear). Since I moved I've been wanting to buy brand new pre, amp, cd/dvd, but I keep procrastinating and buying other stuff.

So... for the time being, I want some kind of amp so I can use my 805/Velodyne combo. Maybe a little Christmas gift. :B Marantz and Denon have some nice little intergrated amps here in Japan that are 50 watts and just about $300. I know the minimal required power is 50 watts. Has anyone ever tried using their 805's with just the minimal requirement? Then I could connect my Oppo player and music server to it.

I don't really want to spend more than $350-400. It's just for now. Currently, the only means I have of listening to music is through my B&W M1's powered by a little 30 watt Panasonic micro stereo in my bedroom. It gets the job done. I figure next month or so I'll buy my HT gear, and then I can move the intergrated amp to the bedroom to power the M1's.

Does anyone have any experience using 805's with just 50 watts? Or any idea/recommendation?

[WI Rotel]

Hi Everyone!

I don't have any audio gear at the moment. Just my B&W N805's and Velodyne sub (and music server which is useless without audio gear). Since I moved I've been wanting to buy brand new pre, amp, cd/dvd, but I keep procrastinating and buying other stuff.

So... for the time being, I want some kind of amp so I can use my 805/Velodyne combo. Maybe a little Christmas gift. :B Marantz and Denon have some nice little intergrated amps here in Japan that are 50 watts and just about $300. I know the minimal required power is 50 watts. Has anyone ever tried using their 805's with just the minimal requirement? Then I could connect my Oppo player and music server to it.

I don't really want to spend more than $350-400. It's just for now. Currently, the only means I have of listening to music is through my B&W M1's powered by a little 30 watt Panasonic micro stereo in my bedroom. It gets the job done. I figure next month or so I'll buy my HT gear, and then I can move the intergrated amp to the bedroom to power the M1's.

Does anyone have any experience using 805's with just 50 watts? Or any idea/recommendation?

Since you are using a sub, 50 watts will suffice, but don't expect rock concert volume levels, in fact, it is crucial you don't try high volume levels since all that will achieve is amplifier distortion which in turn could easily damage your speakers. Paradoxically, a weak amp is more dangerous than a very powerful one. A better idea is to use your little panasonic as a pre and buy a much more powerful power amp like an Rotel RB 1070. For example I drive my XT2's with a 200w RMB 1095!
You have chosen some excellent bookshelf speakers, don't let them down with a limp power supply!

[Briz vegas]

Don't know what type of response you were expecting on this one.

WI Rotel's comments are pretty typical but I don't think you are asking what is the best solution, just if it will work. I think you know as well as the rest of us that it will work and it will sound ok. It isn't ideal, it isn't some exotic tube amp that will provide a glorious midrange and sweet highs to compensate for its other limitations. Its not a Naim amp that has modest wattage but heaps of current - you are talking about common or garden budget integrateds that are adequate rather than great.

I am sure the Marantz or Denon will be adequate but both will have their limitations. Only you can tell which will suit your taste. 805s are modest in size, just take them with you when you go shopping.

PS maybe this is an opportunity to get a little tube integrated just for fun. Only problem is that you will be very lucky to get one at your price point. Here in Australian the chinese ones start at $1500 or so. Maybe in Japan there are more options but otherwise my suggestion is no more useful than the Rotel one (given your budget).

[audioqueso]

Paradoxically, a weak amp is more dangerous than a very powerful one.!

That's actually the reason I don't want to use the little Panasonic. I damaged a little stereo I had in the past by connecting really large speakers to it and playing it.

A better idea is to use your little panasonic as a pre and buy a much more powerful power amp...

Can't do that. I connected the 805s to it when I first moved just to make sure they worked (since I had no other means of checking). They make noise, but it sounded exactly like the little Panasonic speakers that came the micro system (and those speakers came damaged). :B

Don't know what type of response you were expecting on this one.

Well, I know that 50 watts is technically ok on paper, right. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, for what I have (the 805s and M1s), is it worth it? I can't really use the Panasonic to power the 805s. 1) I'm cautious about the damage and 2) It does no justice to the 805s, and makes them sound like the little Panasonic speakers, so there's no point especially taking the damage factor into consideration.

In my head, I'm thinking 50 watts from Marantz, Denon (or whoever) should be better, cleaner, etc than a little micro system. I'm not expecting party level music, but ok to turn up a bit just to listen around the house with 805 quality music. Does that make sense? You know how I said the Panasonic makes the 805 sounds like the little Panasonic speakers. Well, would getting a little 50 watt intergrated amp do the same? Is it the wattage that's making them sound that way, or is it the quality? I thought it was the quality. And a month or two, when I buy my gear that is meant for the 805s, would it make a difference to use the intergrated amp for the B&W M1's in my bedroom? Does this make a little more sense? ops: Hope that helps.

..805s are modest in size, just take them with you when you go shopping.

Ha ha... was that a joke? That's ok. The 805's are pretty popular here. They usually have them at stereo stores.

[WI Rotel]

That's actually the reason I don't want to use the little Panasonic. I damaged a little stereo I had in the past by connecting really large speakers to it and playing it.

Can't do that. I connected the 805s to it when I first moved just to make sure they worked (since I had no other means of checking). They make noise, but it sounded exactly like the little Panasonic speakers that came the micro system (and those speakers came damaged). :B


Well, I know that 50 watts is technically ok on paper, right. I guess what I'm trying to find out is, for what I have (the 805s and M1s), is it worth it? I can't really use the Panasonic to power the 805s. 1) I'm cautious about the damage and 2) It does no justice to the 805s, and makes them sound like the little Panasonic speakers, so there's no point especially taking the damage factor into consideration.

In my head, I'm thinking 50 watts from Marantz, Denon (or whoever) should be better, cleaner, etc than a little micro system. I'm not expecting party level music, but ok to turn up a bit just to listen around the house with 805 quality music. Does that make sense? You know how I said the Panasonic makes the 805 sounds like the little Panasonic speakers. Well, would getting a little 50 watt intergrated amp do the same? Is it the wattage that's making them sound that way, or is it the quality? I thought it was the quality. And a month or two, when I buy my gear that is meant for the 805s, would it make a difference to use the intergrated amp for the B&W M1's in my bedroom? Does this make a little more sense? ops: Hope that helps.

Ha ha... was that a joke? That's ok. The 805's are pretty popular here. They usually have them at stereo stores.

There is no doubt that the panasonic will not do. Again the denon or marantz will work and probably sound very well. The 805 is relatively efficient so even with 50 Watts you'll get decent sound pressures. As you have stated this will be a temporary solution so you can upgrade later. Since you are in Japan, my guess is that you live in apartment thus very loud music would probably very frowned upon by your neighbors anyway. In Japan politeness is a very important social grace

[audioqueso]

There is no doubt that the panasonic will not do. Again the denon or marantz will work and probably sound very well. The 805 is relatively efficient so even with 50 Watts you'll get decent sound pressures. As you have stated this will be a temporary solution so you can upgrade later. Since you are in Japan, my guess is that you live in apartment thus very loud music would probably very frowned upon by your neighbors anyway. In Japan politeness is a very important social grace

Yes, I do live in an apartment, but my walls are solid. My neighbor can't hear my kids screaming (I asked). Thanks for the input though.

[Karma]

HI,
I have 250 Krell watts/channel on mine so it's obvious what I think is right for the final set up (is this significant overkill?). However, I started with a 70 W/channel Denon receiver and I never ran out of power. I mean by that that I never heard the amps saturate in my bedroom AV system.

The Krell definitely sounds better but what else would one expect? It is totally effortless at any volume the speakers can handle. But, I think 50 watts will work fine as long as the listening space is modest and not too much volume is expected. Actually, I think you will be surprised how loud 50 good watts can be with the 87 dB efficient 805's. The operative words are GOOD WATTS. Certainly, a midline Denon receiver produces pretty good watts as do a number of others in the same price range. I have a soft spot for the Denon sound.

Go for it.

Sparky

Edited to add:
BTW, I did use the LFE filter in the Denon AV receiver set for 40 Hz. This is below the nominal low frequency cut off of the speakers. I just wanted to keep the the most destructive AV thumps and booms out of the speaker. They would not be reproduced anyway but could blow the speaker. This also helped the amp. For most music this would not be an issue at all. Use them full range.

It occurs to me that you have the earlier version 805. I'm not sure of their rated efficiency. My 805S's are rated at 87 dB.

[Briz vegas]

Karma, a price of $300 was mentioned. As the US dollar is currently within 10% of the Aussie dollar that leaves me thinking entry level not mid level.

I recall a comment by a friend last week who was in the process of purchasing a pair of Quad 11Ls and a Jas Audio tube integrated amp. When he left the store someone else was auditioning the same little Quads. I arrived to pick up some other gear just as he left. The next day he asked me what the Quads were running on as he thought they sounded very ordinary compared to his audition. It was entry level NAD gear. If it made the modest Quads sound ordinary it would have a greater impact on the 805.

Out of interest, how much is a chinese tube integrated in Japan? The relatively upmarket Jas Bravo 2.4 looked great in the shop and my friend was completely sold on the sound (enough to more than double his original very budget budget).

[audioqueso]

HI,
I have 250 Krell watts/channel on mine so it's obvious what I think is right for the final set up

Oh no, this is not by far my final set up. I just want something for short term, that will in turn go over to the B&W M1 bedroom setup. It was interesting to hear about you 70 watt Denon though. Would it be accurate to say that an integrated amp would produce a purer sound compared to an AV receiver of equivilant level from the same manufacturer? (i.e., a 70 watt integrated amp from Denon vs a 70 watt AV receiver from Denon)

Out of interest, how much is a chinese tube integrated in Japan? The relatively upmarket Jas Bravo 2.4 looked great in the shop and my friend was completely sold on the sound (enough to more than double his original very budget budget).

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by chinese tube.

[Briz vegas]

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by chinese tube.

eg.

http://www.jas-audio.com/Joomla_en//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=49

http://www.jas-audio.com/Joomla_en//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=65&Itemid=49

[Karma]

Oh no, this is not by far my final set up. I just want something for short term, that will in turn go over to the B&W M1 bedroom setup. It was interesting to hear about you 70 watt Denon though. Would it be accurate to say that an integrated amp would produce a purer sound compared to an AV receiver of equivilant level from the same manufacturer? (i.e., a 70 watt integrated amp from Denon vs a 70 watt AV receiver from Denon)

HI audio,
I understand that we are talking about an interim solution. As for a Denon AV receiver vs. a similarly powered receiver, I don't know. I pay very little attention to anything but the high end.

When I started to assemble my bedroom HT system I was very concerned about saving money on what I considered to be a very secondary system. Thus, I bought the Denon which is 70W X 7. After I listened to the 805S's for several weeks I realized that these are truly world class speakers. That's when I put the Krell KAV 3250 power amp into the system (along with a Krell KAV 280P preamp), driving the front channels and the Denon's responsibility became limited to the two rear channels plus, of course, the processor for HT use.

I guess I think that a small Denon integrated amp would at least meet and probably exceed my receiver. It's very difficult to design an adequate power supply to power 7 channels and still fit into a reasonable package. A stereo integrated should have a much more capable power supply.

If I were in your shoes I would research the available recent products, decide on a short list, and search the used market. I have bought a lot of used equipment and have had very good results while saving a lot of money. Alternatively, you could spend more on a higher class used piece then sell it when you no longer need it. You may recoup all of your original expense. I think this is a good strategy.

Sparky

[DM3000 Owner]

Hi Everyone!

I don't have any audio gear at the moment. Just my B&W N805's and Velodyne sub (and music server which is useless without audio gear). Since I moved I've been wanting to buy brand new pre, amp, cd/dvd, but I keep procrastinating and buying other stuff.

So... for the time being, I want some kind of amp so I can use my 805/Velodyne combo. Maybe a little Christmas gift. :B Marantz and Denon have some nice little intergrated amps here in Japan that are 50 watts and just about $300. I know the minimal required power is 50 watts. Has anyone ever tried using their 805's with just the minimal requirement? Then I could connect my Oppo player and music server to it.

I don't really want to spend more than $350-400. It's just for now. Currently, the only means I have of listening to music is through my B&W M1's powered by a little 30 watt Panasonic micro stereo in my bedroom. It gets the job done. I figure next month or so I'll buy my HT gear, and then I can move the intergrated amp to the bedroom to power the M1's.

Does anyone have any experience using 805's with just 50 watts? Or any idea/recommendation?

Try a Panasonic SA XR55 receiver.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4032234

Don't laugh. It will fit your bill and has a true digital amp. For under $200 on this closeout model you cannot go wrong. I use on in my office system.

I first encountered digital amps when running horn speakers which are very critical of source material. They work very well, ridiculously good receiver for the money. It also has a digital input so you can use about any CD player. I use the digital out from a Denon CD player that I bought in 1989 for the office.

This will definately get you going in your price range and you can upgrade later, which you will want to do to get everything you can out of your B&W's.

[audioqueso]

I pay very little attention to anything but the high end.

8) You're just too cool, huh Karma. ha ha I'm just kidding.
Seriously though, I am not trying to go all out for a bedroom setup. For the time being, I want something to play my 805's in the living room with justice. But after a few months, this av or integrated amp will go to the bedroom to power my M1's. And that will be it for the bedroom. No dedicated amps or any other upgrades. It'll will just stay as a nice small setup for my bedroom.

You did bring out a good point that I didn't think about before. Power. Having one power supply feed 7 channels of an AV receiver, as oppose to 2 channels from an integrated amp.


DM3000 Owner (nice handle)
Thanks for that link. That's actually not a bad idea. I'm not sure how it would sound, but at the same time I've heard great things about digital amps. I'll do some research on this. Thanks.

[Karma]

8) You're just too cool, huh Karma. ha ha I'm just kidding.

HI,
Hmmmm???? I hope you really are kidding. Otherwise that's an unwarranted slap and I'm not sure how to take it. I do know I would not say that to someone who is trying to help me on a public forum.

But my statement is the simple truth. Why should I gather information I will never use about equipment I have no interest in owning? I have been into hi fi for more years than most of you folks have been alive. I have seen a truckload of average equipment come and go and no one ever knew they were here. They interest me not at all. The great stuff, however, interests me a lot because they marry art with technology. Great equipment is rare and worth paying attention to.

That's how I feel. $300 amps, no matter how or why they are used, are of no interest. They smack of being boom boxes. Who cares? I hope you understand rather than poking fun, especially publically.

Sparky

[DM3000 Owner]

8)

DM3000 Owner (nice handle)
Thanks for that link. That's actually not a bad idea. I'm not sure how it would sound, but at the same time I've heard great things about digital amps. I'll do some research on this. Thanks.

The handle works fine until you upgrade.

In any event, Look into the Panasonic. I don't think that it is possible to be disappointed at that price. Especially if you are using it for a bedroom system in the future. I am very pleased with mine and just as a point of reference, my main system is N801's, Bryston monoblocks, Musical Fidelity. The Panasonic is nowhere in the same league, but compares very favorably to a $4,000 Denon receiver that it replaced.

[RobP]

HI,
Hmmmm???? I hope you really are kidding. Otherwise that's an unwarranted slap and I'm not sure how to take it. I do know I would not say that to someone who is trying to help me on a public forum.

I think someone needs a nap......

[Karma]

HI,
Subject closed.

Sparky

[RobP]

Subject is still open.............. Lets lighten up a bit.

[fordster]

I don't know how much they are or if you can get them in Japan (though I'd expect you can) but what about the new(ish) Pioneer A6 or A9 amps. I've not heard them myself but they've had some good reviews and are at about the spec you seem to be looking for. I would suggest it is not the amount of watts that would be the problem but whether or not the amp can sustain sufficient output under load which is where a good power supply comes in. I'd suggest going for a lower rated amp with a better PSU than a weak PSU with supposed higher wattage. Whilst Denon's are usually pretty good they don't usually have the best power supplies. The Pioneer amps have toroidal transformers (no idea what that actually means but it is usually a good thing!!) but may well be more expensive as a result.

[l.chiesa]

just bought a krell kav-3250 for my 805s's have not receivied it yet. i see that Karma uses that set up and i was wondering what he thinks of it and if it is a little overboard thanks louis

[george_k]

My suggestion:

Buy a used amp within your price range off of audiogon and resell at very little loss to you.

For example I recently bought a 1.5year old NAD C272 (2x150watt) for less than $500 shipped to Canada. Up here these retail for $1025 new after taxes are factored in. Since it's pretty much depreciated already I could sell it (next year for instance) for not a whole lot less than I paid.

I'm very happy with my purchase "sound quality wise" btw.

[RobP]

My suggestion:

Buy a used amp within your price range off of audiogon and resell at very little loss to you.

For example I recently bought a 1.5year old NAD C272 (2x150watt) for less than $500 shipped to Canada. Up here these retail for $1025 new after taxes are factored in. Since it's pretty much depreciated already I could sell it (next year for instance) for not a whole lot less than I paid.

I'm very happy with my purchase "sound quality wise" btw.

Not a bad idea at all :T

I should have suggested this myself, thats how my whole system was built. You can really get some great older equipment for your dollar. Maybe an older Classe CA100 if you could stretch your budget a couple hundred dollars. Or a Rotel unit? Really alot of options out there.

[audioqueso]

Well, I don't want to over do it THAT much because after all, in a few months it will only be powering a pair of B&W M1's.

[Rosso_Corsa]

I ran my previous Nautilus 805s with 60 watts out of a Rotel RA-1062 and it was no problem at all.

People often fail to realize how powerful even 1 watt is. If you look at a McIntosh amp with a power meter it's easy to see how little power normal listening actually uses.

[Race Car Driver]

I ran my previous Nautilus 805s with 60 watts out of a Rotel RA-1062 and it was no problem at all.

People often fail to realize how powerful even 1 watt is. If you look at a McIntosh amp with a power meter it's easy to see how little power normal listening actually uses.

As I sit here listening to my yamaha reciever (160 watts powering only 2 speakers) and my aragon 4004 amp (two channels bi amping my HTM1) I see 1.6-1.8 amps being drawn through my monster power center.

The volume is quite loud as I am pretty buzzed at 2am. :lol:

But apparently not buzzed enough to know 1.8amps at about 115 volts is only around 200watts total at 100% efficency (which is not the case)

[DM3000 Owner]

Well, I don't want to over do it THAT much because after all, in a few months it will only be powering a pair of B&W M1's.

I still recommend the Panasonic SA XR55 receiver. You will have to spend many times the close out price of $170 to match or better the sound. It will serve its purpose for a few months and then serve you faithfully in your second system.

I am in no way saying that the Panasonic is a audiophile piece of gear. It is a $300 (retail) receiver hooked to a $2000 pair of speakers. I just replaced the Panasonic in my office system with a Musical Fidelity CE Pre24, QSC 200 wpc amp and Rotel tuner. It is now on another level, a much higher level. But then again, the CD Pre alone is ten times the price of the Panasonic.

Let us know where you wind up.

[audioqueso]

I still recommend the Panasonic SA XR55 receiver.

Sorry, I was referring to Soundgravy's suggestion of spending a couple extra hundred dollars for something older but better. It sounds nice, but what I was saying is that it's is only going to end up in the bedroom with a pair of M1s. The M1s are nice, but a Classe is overkill for them.

[Glenee]

Audioqueso, I am going to jump on the DM3000 train on the recommendation of the little Panny SA XR55. I think that Amp is a sleeper in the price catagory. I think it's as good as it gets in that price range.
Good Luck

[BassThatHz]

50watts would probably work fine as long as you keep it under 90db, and refrain from booty bass or any of this Christmas Crunk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXyHl...eature=related :lol:

[audioqueso]

50watts would probably work fine as long as you keep it under 90db, and refrain from booty bass or any of this Christmas Crunk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXyHl...eature=related :lol:

Spam :Z

[cug]

Ridiculous power discussion

50watts would probably work fine as long as you keep it under 90db

That is pretty ridiculous as the 805S create not to bad 88db spl in 1m with 1W input. They will never ask for a lot of power because of the missing low frequency range - if you drive them in musical peaks with 5W it will be REALLY loud. Not necessary nice as the bass will still be missing from these tiny speakers but having an amplifier that really delivers the said 50W and not some crap that totally breaks down with a little bit of low impedance load, you'll be absolutely fine with a small amp and the 805S.

Only problem is, if you have an amp that goes down when the impedance gets low (as it does with the 805S - down to 3Ohm) it will be not sufficient to drive the B&W. But that's a problem of a crappy amplifier, not a problem of a small amplifier. The amp only has to be able to deliver its nominal power under a little bit more difficult load.

For example: you can drive even a 804S without any problems with a small Rotel RA-1062 to levels where your neighbours will hate you. But that amp is able to hold its own even with low impedance and higher volume. All this "you need x Watt power" is just kids play ... it all depends on the complete circumstances.

[DM3000 Owner]

That is pretty ridiculous as the 805S create not to bad 88db spl in 1m with 1W input. They will never ask for a lot of power because of the missing low frequency range - if you drive them in musical peaks with 5W it will be REALLY loud. Not necessary nice as the bass will still be missing from these tiny speakers but having an amplifier that really delivers the said 50W and not some crap that totally breaks down with a little bit of low impedance load, you'll be absolutely fine with a small amp and the 805S.

Only problem is, if you have an amp that goes down when the impedance gets low (as it does with the 805S - down to 3Ohm) it will be not sufficient to drive the B&W. But that's a problem of a crappy amplifier, not a problem of a small amplifier. The amp only has to be able to deliver its nominal power under a little bit more difficult load.

For example: you can drive even a 804S without any problems with a small Rotel RA-1062 to levels where your neighbours will hate you. But that amp is able to hold its own even with low impedance and higher volume. All this "you need x Watt power" is just kids play ... it all depends on the complete circumstances.

Can you recommend a 50 wpc high quality amp that will handle low impedence loads for $300? I don't know of any.

[cug]

Can you recommend a 50 wpc high quality amp that will handle low impedence loads for $300? I don't know of any.

Unfortunately, you are right as far as I know. Maybe a used Rotel RA-1062 might be in that range.

But I wasn't talking about specific amps, more general about something a lot of "power fetishists" pray the whole day: that some speakers need this and that amount of Watt to "open". Which is just not true. If the amp can deliver a clean signal to the load you give it, there is no problem with a small amp.

Biggest problem for a a small amp is always speaker impedance. So, the amp must be able to handle that. I know that my (really) old Yamahas where able to do that, I know that the NAD I listened to is, and I know that the Rotel RA-1062 is. That's all.

[audioqueso]

Don't know what's considered low. I picked up the Denon for 28000 Yen (about $265). 4-16ohms

[BassThatHz]

That is pretty ridiculous as the 805S create not to bad 88db spl in 1m with 1W input. They will never ask for a lot of power because of the missing low frequency range - if you drive them in musical peaks with 5W it will be REALLY loud.

The low frequency range would only be missing in one of two cases:
1: Speakers are Set to Small in Rec
2: Material doesn't contain LF

When you factor in dynamic range and room size/acoustics (room modes), ohm's law and the inverse square law in the real world. In addition to "precieved" vs "actual" Sound Pressure... remember we are least sensitive at LF but that is where sound is most efficient pressure-wise... the amount of power can actually be quite surprising.

I can back this up quasi-mathematically as follows:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/168/index6.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_intensity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/inverse-square-law.htm

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/amppower.htm

Power = V^2 / R
Snew=Sref + (20 * Log (Dref / Dnew)
dB difference = 10 x LOG(power1 / power2)

According to Stereophile's review of N805:
4.8ohm's from ~100-400hz sinewave 2.83v/85.5dB/1m

So how many watts is that?
Power = 2.83v^2 / 4.8ohm @ 85.5dB/1m
Power = 1.67watts @ 85.5dB/1m (roughly in real world)

How many db is required for 90db @ 3m (listening position)?
Snew=Sref + (20 * Log (Dref / Dnew)
Sref = -(20 * Log(1m / 3m)) + 90db
Sref = 99.54db @ 1m

So how many watts do we need to hit 99.54db @ 1m or 90db @ 3m then?
dB difference = 10 x LOG(Pref/ Pnew)
85.5db - 99.54db = -14.04db Diff
-14.04db Diff = 10 x LOG(1.67watts / Pnew)
Pnew = ~42.5watts

That leaves only 0.76db of dynamic range for a full 50watts @ 3m and for any distance beyond 3m, you won't even have enough power to hit 90db.
Of course we are comparing sinewaves to music here, so it is not a 100% conversion.