Need amp suggestions for 802Ds

[Adespota]

OK today we bit the bullet and ordered a pair of 802Ds to be our front speakers. Our preamp is a Linn Unidisk SC with Synergistic Research active Sig 10 speaker cables and the X2 active interconnects. Our current fronts were 804s which will become our rear speakers.

But we need to replace our amp (Rotel 1075) as we know it is way underpowered. Today we listened to a ton of music through various amps including the Bryston 4Bsst, Ayre V-5x, McIntosh 402 and a Classe CA5200. We also listened to the Rotel for grins.

Anyway, to my ear the Classe was a clear winner but it is a little expensive for my blood (yeah I know we did buy 802Ds but we still want to eat).

So we are looking for suggestions for either a 2 channel or 5 channel amp (we can always use the Rotel to drive the rears). We are looking in the <$6K USD if possible range and we figure we need at least 200w if not more.

Ideas so far:
Rotel 1092 or 2 x 1091
Bel Canto Ref1000 monoblocks
Classe CA2200
Parasound??
Krell??

We listen to pretty much everything but tend to test with the following:
Clair Marlo Let it go SACD
Natalie Merchant Tigerlily SACD
Steve Morse Prime Cuts CD
Green Day American Idiot CD
Evanescence Fallen CD
Gerschwin Rhapsody in Blue - Telarc SACD

We would really appreciate suggestions for Amps in our budget range and also any thoughts you may have on the ones we are thinking of as companions to the 802Ds. We are in the active phase of the addiction but the price creep is painful.

Thanks

Adespota

:roll:

[beden1]

Getting into the 802Ds along with speaker wires is just the start of an expensive journey into the land of esoteric/audiophile electronics.

I would be looking for the best pre-amp and amp(s) you can buy on the used market from sources like Audiogon/Stereophile Marketplaces, etc., or to enjoy what you have and save to buy quality components down the road.

I can't see spending good money on lesser electronics now, only to be dissatisfied, and then having to spend more money to get what was really justified later.

[Adespota]

Need amp suggestions for 802Ds

Thanks for the reply. The preamp we have is the Linn Unidisc SC and it sounds amazing with the 802Ds so we definitely intend to keep that. We are just looking for a much better amp to drive our new 802Ds and need some suggestions for alternatives to the Classe and for comments on the list of things we are looking at. I love the sound of the Classe CA5200 and CA2200 but want to check out all options before I spend that kind of money

Cheers

Adespota

[tboooe]

I suggest the Parasound JC-1s. They are very sweet sounding with enough grunt to power th 802ds

[Hoffi]

Adespoda!

If you want to keep the Linn Unidisc SC, (outstanding unit), then go also for Linn amps. They have a wide range of superb amps and you can also get some used ones for good price. Get the best of those you can afford! Believe me that you will find only the final kick with your 802D´s when you don´t mix up brands. I´ve tried around for 2 years with mixtures of Rotel, Bryston Classe, Krell pres and amps for my 802D´s. I found total satisfaction now using all components from one brand (audionet)
Good luck!
Hoffi

[Adespota]

Amp suggestions

Hmmm much as I like the Linn their amps seem a little underpowered (100w into 8o) apart from the Klimax 500 monoblocks which are way out of our budget. We suspect we need at least 200w into 8ohms for those hungry 802Ds/

We did listen to the Bel Canto Ref1000 monoblocks tonight on our current 804s and they showed lots more detail, an amazing bass and we liked the top but the midrange was very clinical (I think the term people use is analytical?) and it just seemed a little standoffish whereas we like a more enveloping experience. Anyway the emotional connection to the music was gone. We went back to our $1000 Rotel RMB1075 and hey presto that warm enveloping sound was back (unfortunately with a lot less detail and a lot less bass). Tomorrow we will connect the Bel Cantos to the 802Ds in the store but suspect it will be a similar experience.

So we are debating upgrading to the RMB1095 (our dealer has a great upgrade program) so we can save for another 6 months for the kind of amp we really need. Another alternative is the RB1092 Rotel class D although we are having trouble finding a dealer who actually has one we can hear - seems to be a lot of bias out there against the class Ds. Also want to home trial a couple of Parasound JC-1s and see how that goes.

So looks like our weekends will be busy.

Cheers

Adespota

[hifiguymi]

If you really liked the Classe CA-5200 then the CA-2200 would be the one to focus on. The amp modules in the CA-2200, CA-3200, CA-5200, and CA-M400 are all the same. The CA-M400 uses two of them in a blanced configuration, but it's still the same amp module. The CA-2200 sounds the same, to me at least, as the CA-5200. If you liked the CA-5200 then the CA-2200 paired with your existing RMB-1075 would be a great upgrade. When the time comes you can get the CA-3200 for the center and rears.

Eric

[sikoniko]

ive had similar problems.. i really loved amp a, but didnt want to spend the money, so i went with amp b. the entire time i had amp b, i always felt like i was missing what i loved about amp a. i ended up selling amp b and buying amp a and am happy. this method ended up costing MORE money, because i wasn't ever quite satisfied with the one i bouth, and i ended up losing money when i sold it.

do yourself a favor, if you like the classe, go for classe. i didnt see you mention home theater for this setup. if you use this for home theater, buy the 3200 now, so your front sound stage is all the same. this will fit in your budget. down the road, upgrade the rotel for your back. keep in mind, that this is a long term more expensive route as well.

3200+2200= $11k list
5200 = $8k list

so maybe you could justify that by getting what you want when you spend the money will save you money in the long term.

[misterdoggy]

Check out McIntosh MC501's. You can pick up a used pair for around $6k on audiogon. If you ever go to a website where Mac owners get together, you would be surprised to lear that the most popular combinations for them are either the 501's or 1201's with either the 802D or 800D's.

I recently switched and Have been happy which is a hard if you know me like many do on this forum.

[Angioguy]

802D's

I listened to several amps-- Levinson, Krell, Jeff Rowland before settling in with the McIntosh MC-402 ($5500 about a year ago)-- at 400 wpc, there's no problem driving the 802D's.... by the way, I would caution you regarding purchasing anything online, including the Audiogon website. As reputable as many of the sellers are, there are those who are not so honest! If you are going to spend the cash, I would recommend demoing anything before buying online-- just my 2 cents.

Good luck. :T

[misterdoggy]

I listened to several amps-- Levinson, Krell, Jeff Rowland before settling in with the McIntosh MC-402 ($5500 about a year ago)-- at 400 wpc, there's no problem driving the 802D's.... by the way, I would caution you regarding purchasing anything online, including the Audiogon website. As reputable as many of the sellers are, there are those who are not so honest! If you are going to spend the cash, I would recommend demoing anything before buying online-- just my 2 cents.

Good luck. :T

Angioguy

I bought, and will continue to buy EVERYTHING online. I have lots of good feedback on Audiogon and have had 99% good experience with the items to be exactly as described.

The one time it wasn't (little scratch) I sent it back and was re imbursed immediately.

You have to have a nose for what is a good seller and look for the signs of a possible problem like 0 feedbacks on which ever site. You can always ask for the persons phone and have a conversation with the potential seller to establish even more comfort about with whom you are buying.

I must have spent over $200,000 on line in the last 3 years without a hiccup. I highly recommed.

Main reason: you pay the devalued price or even a better price and if you want to fool around and sell you will retrieve most of your money. Heck, I even make money when I sell most of the time.

Bought a Pass Labs 250.5 for 3500 euros decided I didn't like the looks (liked the sound) and sold it for 4250 euros. Bought and sold on Audigon. Same on Ebay.

In Europe there are websites in Italian, French, German, Holland, England that there are lots of honest sellers.

I was forced to save because European prices kill you. I bought a pair of 501's for $5500 usd in perfect brand new condition. That's the price of a brand new 402 you spoke of for a pair of 500w mono's.

[Cambs12]

I agree,i bought my amp online,you just have to communicate properly with the seller.If they are genuine,they will be happy to answer any questions.I also insist on cash on pick up,thus checking the item over first.

[moonlightdrive21]

I recommend the Classe. I auditioned the McIntosh MC501's and the Classe 3200's with the 802D's and found the Classe to be notably better. While both sounded great, the Classe stood out because it had better bass (tighter, more powerful, more resolved) and better overall detail without brightness. Both had great transparency and soundstage. But the Mac's seem to sacrafice a little of the bass/dynamics and detail so they can put out a tube-like, warm and even sound.

[misterdoggy]

I recommend the Classe. I auditioned the McIntosh MC501's and the Classe 3200's with the 802D's and found the Classe to be notabley better. While both sounded great, the Classe stood out because it had better bass (tighter, more powerful, more resolved) and better overall detail without brightness. Both had great transparency and soundstage. But the Mac's seem to sacrafice a little of the bass/dynamics and detail so they can put out a tube-like, warm and even sound.

Also important in the mixture is what preamp and source you audition with. I am using a McIntosh C2200 Tube Amp with passthru possibilities for HT and the combo of the C2200 and the 501's would make a big difference.

The chain is all important. The cables, everything can affect how an amp will sound in YOUR mixture. Takes time and moving slowly to experiment to arrive slowly but surely

[RNKC]

I'll cast my vote here for Mark Levinson. I use a Levinson 432 (400w per channel) and I really love the sound. To my ears, the Levinson sounded more musical than Classe but I know that the opposite is true for some people.

And I'm with Mr. Doggy with respect to online buying. I can't really see myself buying new anymore unless it's something so exotic (Nautilus snails) that you basically can't find it online. You have to use your own common sense, but I've found most of the people on Audiogon to be good quality folks selling good quality stuff. There are obviously a few bad ones out there, but on the whole you can get some good deals on equipment if you go online.

[Pookie007]

The first post mentioned the Mac 402. Did you not like it during the audition? I auditioned it and the MC252 and MC402 and really like both of them. The 402 is fully balance where the 252 is not. I actually preferred the Mac sound to the Classe. Right now I am looking at the 252 because I do not need the additional power of the 402 and didn't hear a difference in the sound from the fully balance inputs. My runs are not long enough to really benefit from a balanced connection. The other amp I am looking at is the Audio Research 300.2 (fully balanced design). I currently have an ARC 150.2 and love it. At this time, I think the deciding factor between the McIntosh 252 and the ARC 300.2 will be which dealer gives me the better value on price.

[akhter]

As many have said, I find the McIntosh with B&W combo inbeatable. Another vote for the Mac 402.

[misterdoggy]

I like McIntosh with B&W as well. 402 is a good starting point

[PavelL]

I like McIntosh with B&W as well. 402 is a good starting point

Hey, misterdoggy, you have NOT tried Chord electronics yet. Or have you?

[misterdoggy]

No But I have only heard good things

My Love affair with McIntosh goes back a long way. I am 58 and when I was a boy the top Stuff growing up was Marantz and McIntosh. I always dreamed one day I would own some. Then in the 70's I bought and had ALL McIntosh.

After moving from the States I sold it all and started back with lots of different stuff. Hafler, Rotel, Krell, Parasound, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs etc etc etc, but when I "returned to McIntosh, I found I was home.

It wasn't as much as the sound I loved, but the LOOK was important to me too. The only other sound that I really loved was the Pass Labs 250.5, but the look was Industrial.

Those Green Meters, those those Green meters, those green meters ......

They just mesmerize me. The Black Glass Faceplates, the overall warmth of look and sound. Soon I found myself replacing every component and source to McIntosh and they have not let me down anywhere.

I mean the Lexicon MC12B is one beast. The Lexicon has so many choices in listening modes, and choices within the listening mode, and crossovers, you can even have triggers that trigger with modes let alone source. NOONE in their right mind could possibly program every inch of that machine (whoops I know someone reading this thread probably has)

But with all its choices, you know what...... The MX135 of Mac sounded better with their Cinema 1 mode than the lauded L7 proprietary mode exclusive to Lex. There just never seemed to be material coming to the surrounds with the lex, where as the Mc I feel surrounded.

Anyhow its like coming Home...........

[PavelL]

No But I have only heard good things

My Love affair with McIntosh goes back a long way. I am 58 and when I was a boy the top Stuff growing up was Marantz and McIntosh. I always dreamed one day I would own some. Then in the 70's I bought and had ALL McIntosh.

After moving from the States I sold it all and started back with lots of different stuff. Hafler, Rotel, Krell, Parasound, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs etc etc etc, but when I "returned to McIntosh, I found I was home.

It wasn't as much as the sound I loved, but the LOOK was important to me too. The only other sound that I really loved was the Pass Labs 250.5, but the look was Industrial.

Those Green Meters, those those Green meters, those green meters ......

They just mesmerize me. The Black Glass Faceplates, the overall warmth of look and sound. Soon I found myself replacing every component and source to McIntosh and they have not let me down anywhere.

I mean the Lexicon MC12B is one beast. The Lexicon has so many choices in listening modes, and choices within the listening mode, and crossovers, you can even have triggers that trigger with modes let alone source. NOONE in their right mind could possibly program every inch of that machine (whoops I know someone reading this thread probably has)

But with all its choices, you know what...... The MX135 of Mac sounded better with their Cinema 1 mode than the lauded L7 proprietary mode exclusive to Lex. There just never seemed to be material coming to the surrounds with the lex, where as the Mc I feel surrounded.

Anyhow its like coming Home...........

LOOOOOVE LOOOOOVE LOOOOOVE
I can see you're TRULY MADLY DEEPLY - made me feel sorry for asking...

P.S. so no more brief encounters then?

[misterdoggy]

LOOOOOVE LOOOOOVE LOOOOOVE
I can see you're TRULY MADLY DEEPLY - made me feel sorry for asking...

P.S. so no more brief encounters then?

Yes that phase of my life is over

But there's always the new Mc Products coming out the VP1000 and AP1000

Theres always tomorrow........

[Adespota]

Got the Daleks and an amp

First let me thank you all for sharing your thoughts above.

Yesterday the Daleks (802Ds) arrived along with a Classe CA2200 to drive them. Rears are now the 804Ss driven by the Rotel RB1080. We tried out a gazillion different amps and are pretty certain that our next budget cycle (6-8 months away) includes a pair of CA-M400s. But for now the Classe came out way ahead of everything we listened to in our room, including some very powerful monoblocks.

We listen to everything from green Day and Evanescence to Mahler so we needed something that could handle all of those. For me the biggest thing was the lack of harshness (literally out of the box) of the Classe/802D combination and they are improving already.

So, we are still moving forward upgrading the HT which is a 4.0 right now with a phantom center. Next phase is subwoofers, then determine if we want to upgrade speaker cables again, then time to look at Ca-M400s and the center.

Hmmm this is sounding more and more like an addiction - does it ever end or do we just keep upgrading?

Thanks again everyone

[Edgeyboy]

Angioguy

I bought, and will continue to buy EVERYTHING online. I have lots of good feedback on Audiogon and have had 99% good experience with the items to be exactly as described.

The one time it wasn't (little scratch) I sent it back and was re imbursed immediately.

You have to have a nose for what is a good seller and look for the signs of a possible problem like 0 feedbacks on which ever site. You can always ask for the persons phone and have a conversation with the potential seller to establish even more comfort about with whom you are buying.

I must have spent over $200,000 on line in the last 3 years without a hiccup. I highly recommed.

Main reason: you pay the devalued price or even a better price and if you want to fool around and sell you will retrieve most of your money. Heck, I even make money when I sell most of the time.

Bought a Pass Labs 250.5 for 3500 euros decided I didn't like the looks (liked the sound) and sold it for 4250 euros. Bought and sold on Audigon. Same on Ebay.

In Europe there are websites in Italian, French, German, Holland, England that there are lots of honest sellers.

I was forced to save because European prices kill you. I bought a pair of 501's for $5500 usd in perfect brand new condition. That's the price of a brand new 402 you spoke of for a pair of 500w mono's.

Could you point me in the direction of some used hifi sites in Germany, France etc ? I only ever look at UK ones. Thanks

[Stevebez]

Abbey Road studios use Classe / B&W combo's so you cannot go too wrong here ...

[vlasis]

I agree with the CLASSE amp but a very nice and fast amp for the 802D is from A :W udionet the max type.......Huge sound with clarity and ballance.......

[vlasis]

I agree with the CLASSE amp but a very nice and fast amp for the 802D is from A :W udionet the max type.......Huge sound with clarity and ballance.......

http://www.audionet.de/indexe.html

[misterdoggy]

Could you point me in the direction of some used hifi sites in Germany, France etc ? I only ever look at UK ones. Thanks

In Germany for used HIFI

http://www.audio-markt.de/

In France

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/

but buyer be very careful as its not audiogon or ebay so you need to contact the seller and be sure who you are dealing with is for real

[Pato]

Hello,

Try all of the above... and some Electrocompaniet and Nuforce Ref 9SE.