Suggestions for upgrading my 802D based HT system?

[Oddiophile]

I would like some comments, opinions and suggestions on how best to improve my system. It consists of:

Speakers:

B&W 802D (Fronts) driven by 2 Classe CA M-400 amps
B&W HTM2D (Center) driven by 1 Classe CA M-400 amp
B&W 802N (Sides) driven by 1 Classe CA-2200 amp
B&W 805S (Rears) driven by 1 Classe CA-2200 amp
B&W ASW-855 Subwoofers—2 of the critters


Sources:

Esoteric UX-3pi (CD, 2-channel SACD and DVD-Audio via the only 2 analog outs available) N.B. Could use HDMI out for multi-channel if had an HDMI in on my Lexicon processor

Denon 5910 (CD, multi-channel SACD and DVD-Audio via 5.1 analog outs) N.B. Used exclusively for multi-channel and DVD

HD Satellite receiver from Bell TV

Processor:

Lexicon MC-12B Version 5EQ N.B. This is NOT the HD version. There are no HDMI inputs.

Other (mostly irrelevant for our purposes but might be of interest):

Various cables, power conditioners, isolation feet/pucks from Shunyata, NBS and Black Diamond

I had a long talk with my dealer (Premier Audio in Edmonton—350 miles and a 5-6 hour drive from Saskatoon where I live) and my feeling is that I should maybe:

1. Upgrade the Center Channel speaker to a B&W HTM1D ($6,500 CDN or about $5,000 USD after trade-in)
2. Upgrade the Processor to the Classe SSP-800 (about $8,000 CDN or about 6,200 USD)
3. Bi-amp at least the front channels with Classe CA M400s. I can get a pair of used ones from the dealer (his own personal pair) for about $8,500 CDN or about 6,600 USD)

Obviously, doing all of the above would be great but my finances are limited. It seems to me that the biggest mismatch is in the Center Channel and so I should do that first.

I will have to ultimately get a new processor. My feeling is to wait until the upgrade is made to the Classe SSP-800 (April/May—anybody know?) or see if anything else of interest comes out for a processor. The Denon AVP-1 is another candidate but I am leaning strongly towards the Classe SSP-800, particularly as the dealer is willing to come all the way out here, “voice” the system and set up the Room EQ in the Classe SSP-800 (what a great guy! He came out to acoustically treat the room about 4 years ago).

Bi-amping the speakers would be nice but I doubt if it would make as much as a difference as doing the other upgrades. Interestingly, the dealer suggests that a bi-amped pair of 802Ds is better than a single-amped pair of 800Ds.

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated as would any other options you can think of. Also, I am wondering if the prices quoted are reasonable. I value the opinions of members on this forum and have already learned a lot from them.

Thanks in advance.

Jim

[Nolan B]

Hold on...you dont even have a BD player?

Without a doubt your next upgrade needs to be the Oppo BD 83 to replace all your source components, and a Classe SSP 800 to replace your processor.

Those to things will bring your system to a whole new level and I personally would be convinced you will not be able to make a bigger difference for the dollar then that.


If you cant swing the SSP 800 yet, I would first start with the Oppo.

[Oddiophile]

You guys are smart!

I had considered something like the Oppo to be a given to go along with the Esoteric. Besides, the money isn't that much in the scheme of things. I guess it was so obvious to me that I never thought to mention it.

Why the SSP-800 over the HTM1D? I can think of reasons either way but I would like to hear yours.

Jim

[Nolan B]

You guys are smart!

I had considered something like the Oppo to be a given to go along with the Esoteric. Besides, the money isn't that much in the scheme of things. I guess it was so obvious to me that I never thought to mention it.

Why the SSP-800 over the HTM1D? I can think of reasons either way but I would like to hear yours.

Jim

There are better people to answer the question of the SSP 800 then me because I have only heard and and still saving for it. I will say the following thou...


It has HDMi and will process hi rez PCM and with the Oppo thats all you need. IMO from the limited listen I have done the 800 sounds like a high quality 2 channel CD player on all channels. As far as I have experienced that has never existed before.

No through in the fact is matches your equipment and looks killer..what else do you need to know.

Oh and its made in Canada

[HedgeHog]

That sounds like a killer system - WOW on 3 x CA-M400! BTW, wrt the sub, a lot of the dealers are saying REL blends better than the ASW.

As Vancouver mentioned, get a nice BD, it's amazing how good the films are. And if you're keeping your two other audio sources, a lot of good players are available without costing a lot.

Oh, I received an email from Classe regarding the upgrade. They claim it'll be a free h/w-f/w upgrade to existing owners and it'll probably be released Apr/May (as you said). The tough question is cost...I heard Classe and B&W will be/have raised their MSRP. So choose the one that Premier will hold last year's MSRP to...then discount on that. And I think with 802D as fronts, HTM2D is fine as your center; which leaves you getting the SSP-800 as your choice upgrade.

All the best.

[Nolan B]

I heard Classe and B&W will be/have raised their MSRP. .

I really hope they dont. in this economy it would be crazy for a high end company to raise its price. Bottom line is my dollar is worth more then it used to be. Classe or B&W raising their price in this market is not a good move IMO.

[William]

As someone who went from a HDM2D to a HDM1D I can tell you sound wise that is your biggest bang. If the HDM1D was available for audition at most B&W dealers many more would be buying it instead of the HDM2D.

[htsteve]

Oddiophile,

I am agreeing with the others here. I think option 2, the new processor, plus a BR player would make a very good upgrade to your system. The system synergy would be very good. Also, the HD audio formats that a BR player will put out are awesome. With the fabulous speakers/amps you have, the HD audio should be tremendous.

I also have the HTM2D along with 802D's. They work quite well together. I'm sure the HTM1D would be awesome, but I'm a big believer in system synergy.

While bi-amping the 802D's would be nice, the other upgrades would made more of a difference. Also, the prices seem reasonable. Especially coming out and setting up the SSP800.


Hope this helps.

[sikoniko]

I vote for the SSP-800, BD Player and the HTM1D. You said you couldn't do them all. Thats 2 out of 3 + a BD player. Dealer might as well bring the HTM1D with him, as that thing is huge and heavy from my understanding. No sense in making him come all the way back out when you decide you want the center anyways (and you will - especially when you hear how good SACD sounds on the SSP-800, it really brings out the best in it). He'd have to go through the trouble of re-EQing the room again. Maybe he will incentivize it for ya. :T

that will make your system quite nice for some time to come and you can quit worrying about what to upgrade next. BTW, the DSP will be field upgradeable, so the dealer should be able to mail you the board and you replace it yourself. Not a big deal. If you've ever assembled a PC before this should be simple.

[Relentless]

Processor and entry level BD player has my vote also.

[Oddiophile]

I am inclined to go along with Sikonko's suggestion and get both the HTM1D and the SSP-800. The Lexicon MC-12B, although a terrific piece of equipment (even today), is getting long in the tooth and so that part of the upgrade seems to be a no-brainer unless there is something better out there (Denon AVP-1?). Furthermore, if I get the HTM1D fairly soon, I can break it in for the required 200 or so hours and then get the dealer in for the room EQ setup. Perhaps the timing will even work out for the upgrade for the SSP-800 by then. As an aside, about 4 years ago, I had my dealer in to analyze the room and it certainly does make a difference.

I am not 100% sure if I can afford both upgrades so my question is whether the HTM1D is sufficiently better than the HTM2D for me to stretch my financial resources to or past their limits.

Any other opinions, comments, suggestions?

By the way, as a price check, what are the current prices on the SSP-800 and the HTM1D (hopefully in Canadian Dollars)?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[cdika17]

HTM1D - $10,000 cdn
SSP-800 - $7,100 cdn

I got this quote from premier audio last October.

[Oddiophile]

Hi all,

I have just ordered the HTM1D. I am waiting for some more information from the dealer before I go ahead with the Classe SSP-800. He will be talking with them tomorrow.

Jim

[cdika17]

Need pictures, im a visual guy.

[Kal Rubinson]

Processor and entry level BD player has my vote also.

Ditto.

Kal

[1oldguy]

Need pictures, im a visual guy.

I concur :T

[xyobgyn]

Different direction.

No mention is made of PJ or screen.

Although there is a certain assumption that with the quality of the audio chain you've described that you're not watching movies on a 32 inch CRT.

Personally, I will challenge the convention and suggest you have an excellent set of speakers and amps all around.

But I'd spring for a third 802D. You've got the same amp across the front 3, something I think is critical. Make all three speakers identical. If you have to go to a AT screen, consider a CIH installation to preserve brightness.

(assumes a non-CRT based PJ)

I think you're chasing diminishing returns at this point by discussing biamping. So much of the movie comes out of the center channel, and it will be so, so much easier to balance everything later if you make this first step before going to a system where you tweek with mics etc...

Just my 02 worth.... know I'm out on a limb, flame suit on.

I chased balance for a long, long time with mismatched fronts, and until I came darn close to duplicating L&R with my C......pans were just not the same.

Alex.

[SoCalCM]

I have to agree with Alex.

A third 802D is definitely the way to go if your room/setup can accommodate it. I have 3 802Ds across the front and no way would I ever substitute the HTM1D. The sound is amazing, completely seamless soundstage with perfect imaging. I have a Sony Ruby projector and have a high enough ceiling that I can project the image over the top of the speakers. Besides, the three matching speakers look really good in my room.

I would suggest at least looking at the new Pioneer Elite BDP09 player, the threads at AVSForum seem to suggest it is better than the Oppo, although more expensive. The scaler in the D2 made my Denon 5910 redundant so I sold it. Now have a Pioneer DV58 that passes 480i over HDMI to the D2 and yields a better picture. Use a PS3 BDP. Music sources are an Ayre C-5xe and a Rega P9 TT -- these pieces are worth every penny. I do recommend a really good TT.

I use the Anthem D2 for a processor and Classe CA3200 amp. Rears are 804S powered with a Classe CA2200.

Also agree that bi-amping is a waste of money.