B&W 600 S4 launched today

[hifiguymi]

It's true that the new 600 Series is made in China. They are being made at the Rotel factory. The two main reasons for it are cost (to do what they are doing with the new drivers and amps in the subs is expensive) and production capacity. They are running the plant in Denmark (it's the funiture factory they purchased which is where most of the boxes are made) at full capacity. They don't have the ability to build them in Europe and keep them at the prices they have. While it may not be ideal to some, it is a factory they own (with Rotel) and employ the workers themselves. It is not being outsourced to someone else.

Eric

[SF_VR6]

Apparently the whole 600 series is made in China, cabinets and all! If my dealer is right, this is heresy on the part of B&W, IMO. A real break with tradition that should backfire on their sales.

So explain to me how being made in China results it worse build quality?

The 600 S3 series, were these built in Britain?

[corysmith01]

Wait...so they're moving the making of the 6 series to a China facility to save on costs, but the price points on equivalent models (s3 to s4) are going up, some as much as $400?

[Russ L]

So explain to me how being made in China results it worse build quality?

The 600 S3 series, were these built in Britain?

Yes the 600 S3 were made in England and the cabinets in Denmark. Only my B&W center speaker stand was made in China up until now. I realize Made in China is not a bad thing anymore and often a good thing. But somehow with B&W it should be a made in England product. If theres no effect on Quality then its not so bad. Granted I haven't seen the speakers in person yet but from the pictures the Quality doesn't look at the same level as the 600 S3 series, CMs, the 700 and 800 series IMO. Is this directly related to the move to China?
Best Regards, Russ

[Russ L]

Wait...so they're moving the making of the 6 series to a China facility to save on costs, but the price points on equivalent models (s3 to s4) are going up, some as much as $400?

My dealer said they are saving labour costs of over $14/hr! :E Best Regards, Russ

[Lewing]

Seems like nowadays goods made in china is just inevitable...

[rocque]

Yes the 600 S3 were made in England and the cabinets in Denmark. Only my B&W center speaker stand was made in China up until now. I realize Made in China is not a bad thing anymore and often a good thing. But somehow with B&W it should be a made in England product. If theres no effect on Quality then its not so bad. Granted I haven't seen the speakers in person yet but from the pictures the Quality doesn't look at the same level as the 600 S3 series, CMs, the 700 and 800 series IMO. Is this directly related to the move to China?
Best Regards, Russ

These speakers may be made in China, but I doubt that they are designed in China. I can understand saving labour costs and moving manufacturing to China, but I somehow can't believe that series 4 is designed by anybody except the R&D teams at B&W UK.

Personally I'm excited by the 683 specs, and while the looks may be a bit unconventional, I'm reserving further judgment until I actually hear these in person. If these don't perform to expectations, then I guess I'm spending the extra cash on the 703s!

[hifiguymi]

Wait...so they're moving the making of the 6 series to a China facility to save on costs, but the price points on equivalent models (s3 to s4) are going up, some as much as $400?

Nothing is going up $400.00. The most anything is going up is $150.00 and that is the 685 ($600.00/pr) compared to the DM601 ($400.00/pr). That compairison is in size only, not in performance. The performance difference is TBD and the 685 may be closer to the DM602 that was at $600.00/pr. The floor standing speaker are at the same prices and the two "smaller" subs are less than the previous models.

Eric

[Jmac]

Well...

I can't think of any logical solid reason why quality should suffer for being built in China.

It is after all a B&W owned and run factory.

I have a pair of Tannoy bookshelf speakers, built in China, and the build, finish, and especially value for money is outstanding.

It sounds to me as if quality levels with the new 600 series 4, will likely stay the same, but performance will jump for around the same money as with the outgoing series 3. That's very good news IMHO.

Yes, I want, and hope to get into the 800 series when I buy, as I'm sure we all would. But, if you want to do it without compromise for a multi-channel surround sound music (SACD), 2 channel music, and HT setup, that means equivalent quality all around, even using the exact same speakers if you want to be ultra perfectionist for SACD, but the cost just skyrockets with multiple speakers.

In that sense, I love the promise of a very high performance to cost ratio of the new 600 series, and noting also that the centre channel with the FST driver is a match for the 683's, means that I will be listening to these speakers with great interest indeed when they finally become available.

In short, if Chinese production is used, as long as quality remains, I think it's a good deal for those of us who like great quality and performance at relatively sane cost.

Best Regards

John... :-)

[Russ L]

These speakers may be made in China, but I doubt that they are designed in China. I can understand saving labour costs and moving manufacturing to China, but I somehow can't believe that series 4 is designed by anybody except the R&D teams at B&W UK.

Yes the important thing is that they are designed in UK. Love that British Sound :T However I would still pick the CMs or the 700 series over the new 600s at this point until the quality is confirmed. Anytime you set up new production lines with newly trained people you can get problems. I heard Cambridge Audio had trouble with its Azur series production when they first set up production in China. They had to post a Supervisor for every 3or 4 workers h: to ensure quality. My advice is to hold off on purchases until product quality is assured. Best regards, Russ

[SF_VR6]

Yes the important thing is that they are designed in UK. Love that British Sound :T However I would still pick the CMs or the 700 series over the new 600s at this point until the quality is confirmed. Anytime you set up new production lines with newly trained people you can get problems. I heard Cambridge Audio had trouble with its Azur series production when they first set up production in China. They had to post a Supervisor for every 3or 4 workers h: to ensure quality. My advice is to hold off on purchases until product quality is assured. Best regards, Russ

very good point. looks like I'm leaning towards the CM series at least for today.

[audioqueso]

In a heart beat. The fourth generation 600’s are second class citizens compared to the second generation CM’s. The CM’s are the embodiment of the 800 Series in a traditional but upscale cabinet.

Really? I didn't actually hear the big deal with the CMs. I listened to them at the dealer (so Rotel setup of course). And to be honest, I only found them slightly better than the 600s.

[Boone38]

I have been going back and forth between the 601s and the CM1s for a set to my theater. I have a rather large room and the dealer allowed me to take both sets home with the matching center. To me and it sounds like others the CM cast a wider sound stage, highs were more defined. The center was better as well. I am waiting to pull the trigger, but have held back to hear the S4 and how close they will sound.

[SF_VR6]

I have been going back and forth between the 601s and the CM1s for a set to my theater. I have a rather large room and the dealer allowed me to take both sets home with the matching center. To me and it sounds like others the CM cast a wider sound stage, highs were more defined. The center was better as well. I am waiting to pull the trigger, but have held back to hear the S4 and how close they will sound.

I'm in the same boat as you. I just cannot make the final decision on these two routes:

CM7 mains
CM Center

or

603 Mains
LCR 60

I only have these choices since I want to put my center speakers inside my cabinet drawer. The center speaker is defining what main speaker choices I have.

The CMs are gonna cost me a full $1k more.
or just be satisfied with the current S3s
or wait (who knows how long) to hear the S4s

If I wait for the S4s to finally arrive (I bet no sooner than mid June) I might as well get the CMs cuz I would've saved up the extra cash for it.

[bo-cephus]

Good points about the possible Quality Assuarance Issues. Regardless of what country, seems that any time a new plant is built with newly trained emplyees there is at least a potential for lesser and/or inconsistent build quality/sound performance. I'm sure this wouldn't be lost on B&W - perhaps they will describe in their promortions what steps they have taken to minimize this potential. But when deciding to buy the S4's you have to start with a demo, but the actual speakers you end up taking home would need to be auditioned as well, IMO. Could be good ones, could be not so good ones, assembled when the QA supervisor went home on a Friday afternoon. Does this mean my good old 602 S3's may be in more demand?

[sikoniko]

Could it be that the cabinets are made in china, but the rest of the speaker is merely assembled there? the crossover, and speakers still built in england?

[SF_VR6]

waiting waiting waiting 8O

starting to lean towards the trigger for the CM series now :W

[rocque]

waiting waiting waiting 8O

starting to lean towards the trigger for the CM series now :W

Heh, me too ... Anyone know what the Canadian MSRP for the CM7 is?

[Russ L]

Heh, me too ... Anyone know what the Canadian MSRP for the CM7 is?

My dealer said $2400/pr CDN for the CM7s. The new 683 that replaces old DM 604(MSRP $2000CDN) would probably cost only $1700 CDN but he wasn't absolutely sure of that til he got the 600 series4 in the store. Reflecting reduced costs of Chinese production? I wonder if the alumunium dome tweeter, the FST midrange, the crossovers...etc. are done in the same application for the new 683 as they are for the CM 7 floorstander? Any thoughts on this? -Russ

[nick.h]

So when is the new 800 series due?

[Briz vegas]

Current 800s are just fine. We just went through that process a couple of years ago.

It will be the 700 series first.

[rocque]

My dealer said $2400/pr CDN for the CM7s. The new 683 that replaces old DM 604(MSRP $2000CDN) would probably cost only $1700 CDN but he wasn't absolutely sure of that til he got the 600 series4 in the store. Reflecting reduced costs of Chinese production? I wonder if the alumunium dome tweeter, the FST midrange, the crossovers...etc. are done in the same application for the new 683 as they are for the CM 7 floorstander? Any thoughts on this? -Russ

Thx Russ! I'm all for the best sound for the buck, and $1700 CDN (if it holds true) for the 683 and all it does on paper would be a great price! I guess I'm back to a holding pattern ... hurry up, B&W, and release these new speakers already!