Optimum Power to drive 802D or 803D?

[beden1]

I'm considering upgrading my front speakers, and was wondering what the optimum power is to drive either the 802D or the 803D speakers. I'd also like to know how efficient they are at lower volume listening levels. They are both rated at 50 to 500W.

[sikoniko]

I heard a 150W BAT VK250 with my N802's and it sounded amazing. I would focus on quality of power over quantity.

[Tweir]

I use the CAM-400 for my 803d's and I love it! The mc402 by mcintosh is also great. I find when I really get into the music on a pair of 802d's with the mc402 I run into the powerguard alot. So the Mc501 would be the better choice. I have also heard the 802d with two mc275's so that would be about 150 tube watts a side and found to be very enjoyable. In my opinion I would get at least a mono amp with 400 or more watts into the 8ohm rating and double that into 4ohm to 800 or 1000watts....

[beden1]

I use the CAM-400 for my 803d's and I love it! The mc402 by mcintosh is also great. I find when I really get into the music on a pair of 802d's with the mc402 I run into the powerguard alot. So the Mc501 would be the better choice. I have also heard the 802d with two mc275's so that would be about 150 tube watts a side and found to be very enjoyable. In my opinion I would get at least a mono amp with 400 or more watts into the 8ohm rating and double that into 4ohm to 800 or 1000watts....

You feel I would need 400 watts per side to still have enough head room?

[Tweir]

That was my choice. I Felt that the 200watters were good for the 803s and under.
If you have or you are buying either the 802d or the 803d give them the right amount of power. You will never look back I promise...

[jim777]

I would get a MC402 for 803D's or a pair of MC501's for 802D's.

Then, for a stereo SACD/CD-only system, only a MCD201 is required to complete the system (it has a pre-amp with headphone output).

[moonlightdrive21]

I was faced with having to make the same kind of decison for my 802D's. I chose one of the Classe 200 watt Delta amps (i.e., the 3200 - they have a 2 channel version which is the 2200).

Note the following article that Kal recently did for Stereophile where he evaluated the 200 watt per channel Classe 3200 power amp with 802D's and others: http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/207classe/

Some quotes from Kal..

"Sure, the CA-3200's 200Wpc is somewhat less than the Omega Omicron monoblock's 300W, the Simaudio Evolution W-8's 250Wpc ($10,200, reviewed in March 2006), or the Bel Canto e.One REF1000 monoblock's 500W ($1995 each, "Music in the Round," November 2006)—but it was more than adequate for the supposedly power-hungry B&Ws."

"In terms of speaker matching, the CA-3200 was a nigh on perfect partner to the B&W 802D..."

"The Classé CA-3200 is an impressive hunk of amplifier. On paper, it has less power and slightly more distortion than its much pricier big brother, the Omega Omicron, but it concedes little in performance. Judging it by the highest standards and with some of the best loudspeakers available, I can't fault the CA-3200's"

[Cambs12]

I would certainly look for a reasonable power output,i demoed 802ds a few months back,and for some strange reason they hooked them up to Naims entry level pre/power.
Even after adding a second power amp,they were clipping severely at anything above moderate levels.
I believe B&W speakers can be difficult to drive,and for this reason i upgraded my amp to a Musical fidelity Trivista(350 watts into 8ohm,600 into 4) after moving house and having a bigger listening room.They are both great speakers,i feel you would not do them justice unless you give them a reasonably powerful amp.

[beden1]

I would certainly look for a reasonable power output,i demoed 802ds a few months back,and for some strange reason they hooked them up to Naims entry level pre/power.
Even after adding a second power amp,they were clipping severely at anything above moderate levels.
I believe B&W speakers can be difficult to drive,and for this reason i upgraded my amp to a Musical fidelity Trivista(350 watts into 8ohm,600 into 4) after moving house and having a bigger listening room.They are both great speakers,i feel you would not do them justice unless you give them a reasonably powerful amp.

During my listening in the store, I could see they craved power. It looks like I'm going to have to go and also research power amps/pre-amps again. I like to use equipment that still has head room and runs speaker demands efficiently. Thanks for your help.

[beden1]

I was faced with having to make the same kind of decison for my 802D's. I chose one of the Classe 200 watt Delta amps (i.e., the 3200 - they have a 2 channel version which is the 2200).

Note the following article that Kal recently did for Stereophile where he evaluated the 200 watt per channel Classe 3200 power amp with 802D's and others: http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/207classe/

Some quotes from Kal..

"Sure, the CA-3200's 200Wpc is somewhat less than the Omega Omicron monoblock's 300W, the Simaudio Evolution W-8's 250Wpc ($10,200, reviewed in March 2006), or the Bel Canto e.One REF1000 monoblock's 500W ($1995 each, "Music in the Round," November 2006)—but it was more than adequate for the supposedly power-hungry B&Ws."

"In terms of speaker matching, the CA-3200 was a nigh on perfect partner to the B&W 802D..."

"The Classé CA-3200 is an impressive hunk of amplifier. On paper, it has less power and slightly more distortion than its much pricier big brother, the Omega Omicron, but it concedes little in performance. Judging it by the highest standards and with some of the best loudspeakers available, I can't fault the CA-3200's"

Thanks for this information. The Classé CA-3200 seems like a good place to start looking. I'll have to do research on these multi-channel amps. I guess I'd need at least a five channel to include HT? Or, two mono blocks for the fronts, and a three channel for the center and the surrounds?

[moonlightdrive21]

Thanks for this information. The Classé CA-3200 seems like a good place to start looking. I'll have to do research on these multi-channel amps. I guess I'd need at least a five channel to include HT? Or, two mono blocks for the fronts, and a three channel for the center and the surrounds?

You can do a Classe 5200 (200 watts into 5 channels) to cover a 5 channel home theater setup (3 fronts and 2 surrounds). It's a beautiful amp, but really huge (check out the dimensions and determine how you are going to place it in your rack/room before you decide for sure).

Or you can invest in the 3200 (200 watts into 3 channels) to give you very high quality sound in the most important areas, which are the front speakers and center channel. Then you can spend less on the amp for the surounds (which is the approach I am taking).

Of course you can invest in the M400 monos for your fronts and get another amp for your center and surrounds.

Dave

[sikoniko]

Or you can invest in the 3200 (200 watts into 3 channels) to give you very high quality sound in the most important areas, which are the front speakers and center channel. Then you can spend less on the amp for the surounds (which is the approach I am taking).
Dave

That is basically what I am doing. I will eventually be using a CA-3200 for L/C/R and a cheap parasound amp for my surround speakers. I will eventually upgrade to a 5 channel amp and use 2 channels for my surrounds and the other 2 channels for a second zone in the house.

[beden1]

You can do a Classe 5200 (200 watts into 5 channels) to cover a 5 channel home theater setup (3 fronts and 2 surrounds). It's a beautiful amp, but really huge (check out the dimensions and determine how you are going to place it in your rack/room before you decide for sure).

Or you can invest in the 3200 (200 watts into 3 channels) to give you very high quality sound in the most important areas, which are the front speakers and center channel. Then you can spend less on the amp for the surounds (which is the approach I am taking).

Of course you can invest in the M400 monos for your fronts and get another amp for your center and surrounds.

Dave

What is the approximate cost of the 5200, 3200, and M400 amps? And, what pre-amp would go well with these amps (approximate cost)?

[beden1]

I was just reading the Classe web site about their products. I'm sure they are great amps, but, I would be looking at having to get at least a 5200, plus their pre-amp (2 channel?), and also a multi-channel processor?

I'd really like to say goodbye to components, and look for a kick-ass receiver with HDMI ins/outs, and that has the power to drive these speakers. I am starting to become a believer of going with a powerful receiver that offers so many of the features available in today's digital world.

Dont hate me, but I already went all out for the high end components several times during my 35 year pursuit of sound & vision excellence. Now, I'm of the mind that keeping it simple, and getting the best bang for the buck is the best route in the end.

[sikoniko]

I was just reading the Classe web site about their products. I'm sure they are great amps, but, I would be looking at having to get at least a 5200, plus their pre-amp (2 channel?), and also a multi-channel processor?

I'd really like to say goodbye to components, and look for a kick-ass receiver with HDMI ins/outs, and that has the power to drive these speakers. I am starting to become a believer of going with a powerful receiver that offers so many of the features available in today's digital world.

Dont hate me, but I already went all out for the high end components several times during my 35 year pursuit of sound & vision excellence. Now, I'm of the mind that keeping it simple, and getting the best bang for the buck is the best route in the end.

keep in mind, features does not equal quality. There are many people who went down that path, only to come back.

There is only reason you need HDMI at this point is for video. I am using SPDIF for my HDDVD and BD and that is better than using analog audio.

NO processors, preamps, receivers today offer DTS-HD, DTHD or DD+. I bet that will be a different story in ALL arena's this time next year. dont make a rash decision...

[johan]

You dont need a 2-channel pre if buy one of their processors.
My suggestion is: SSP-300, CA-3200 and CA-2100(wont need more for surr). That's three boxes that will give you way more quality than you'll ever find in any reciever. And those speakers sure deserves it...

Good luck!!

[kurtholz]

I have tried many different amps with my 802D's, i am still a very big fan of the Bel Canto's, they can be bought second hand very cheap, other than the Krell monoblock's i settled on, at massively more money for just minor improvements, the Bel Canto do a great job,so if you don't need bragging rights,:-),, i would try and demo a pair if you can, or try and pry a response from kal for a second opinion, he used them for a while

good luck

Kurt

[beden1]

I have tried many different amps with my 802D's, i am still a very big fan of the Bel Canto's, they can be bought second hand very cheap, other than the Krell monoblock's i settled on, at massively more money for just minor improvements, the Bel Canto do a great job,so if you don't need bragging rights,:-),, i would try and demo a pair if you can, or try and pry a response from kal for a second opinion, he used them for a while

good luck

Kurt

Thanks Kurt. I looked at the site and I will call them to try and find a dealer close to me. I'm starting to get the stereo bug again, after recently setting up a decent system in our Florida house. (This system is mostly for entertainment). Now, I'm looking to refresh my Pennsylvania setup (where I get to do my own listening) that I have tweaked for 30+ years, and is time for a change.

I have always used components in my systems. But, my initial reasoning for possibly using a powerful receiver . . . is that digital, HT and multi-channel has kind of created a different animal in music and theater. Aside from pure stereo (2 channel) listening, much of today's source material seems to be produced in colored manufactured sound. And, in this line of thinking, how much audible benefit is anyone really getting from the pure sounds that high end amps and pre-amps and players are capable of producing?

I guess I need to spend some time listening to some of these high end systems to determine the true audible benefit. When you think about it, gone are the days of pure vinyl reproductions from sound studios that are accoustically excellent (and music was predominantly produced by real instruments - excluding pop for which I am not a huge fan).

[beden1]

I have tried many different amps with my 802D's, i am still a very big fan of the Bel Canto's, they can be bought second hand very cheap, other than the Krell monoblock's i settled on, at massively more money for just minor improvements, the Bel Canto do a great job,so if you don't need bragging rights,:-),, i would try and demo a pair if you can, or try and pry a response from kal for a second opinion, he used them for a while

good luck

Kurt

I read about the Bel Canto amps, and the S300 seems very interesting. In your opinion, would one of these drive a pair of 802D, or would it be better to get a mono 300 for each speaker? Then another question . . . if I wanted to bi-amp each speaker, what would I need to do as far as equipment?

[beden1]

While we are on the subject, I also learned about the Aragon 2002 (200x2) THX ULTRA 2 AMP. I have an Aragon stereo pre-amp that I always enjoyed (currently not being used). Always thought their sound was pure. Does anyone have any experience with their amps, or in the best case scenario, as compared to the Bel Cantos?