Help with B&W 802D / 803D & matching equipment?

[KentF]

Hello, I am new to all this high end stuff but I want to get a really good setup for Home Theater and Music. I am thinking 5.1 is good enough for now.

What do I need to drive either of these and what else should I get to go with them?

B&W 802D or B&W 803D

Do these match the above well enough and if not what?
B&W 805S
HTM2D (Wrong Color to match the 802/3)hmmm. HTM4S matches
AWS855 or AWS825

Electronics - Rotel?
RSP1098
No clue about Amplifiers. RMB-1095 good enough or do I need to go with more seperates like the RB-1092?

Any help would be appreciated. Just trying too build my dream system.

Thank you,

Kent

[DeepEndX]

It would help if you provide your budget and room size. Sky is the limit in this hobby.

[Audiophiliac]

7x802D, 2xASW875, Classe SSP600, Classe CDP600, and 7xClasse CAM400.

Yeah we really need more info. ALso, you can get the HTM in any of the colors the 800 series come in.

[KentF]

Sure I will try to provide more info. Thank you for the info about the colors.

Myself and my friend want to get the same equipment but we have different size rooms. Our buget would be 25-30K each based on retail prices.

My friend is converting a large bedroom in the basement to a theater/office room. For myself I have an open concept basement with a 57" HDTV (for now), Pioneer Elite with Mirage Speakers. I have a L shapped sofa that sits about 11 feet away from the HDTV.

Both of us have the same sort of viewing habbits. About 70% HDTV/DVD, 20% Music or Music Videos, and about 10% XBOX360 gamming and maybe a PS3 when it comes out. We do not see ourselves buying a high end CD (or DVD-ADIO/SACD) player for Music as we use our computers to store our music and aslo IPODS. We encode most of our Music from CD to 320K on hard drives so that we can build and play our favorite play lists. We will also buy a Buy-Ray or HD-DVD player in 2007 based on the market direction at the time.

We went to all the Home Theater Stores over the last week and we liked B&W speakers the best for sound and looks. We saw the Classe electronics but we were thinking it was a little out of our price range. My friend loved the look of the Rotel RSP-1098 but I would rather have newer or better technology instead of a flashy LCD screen if that makes sense.

We also like to listen to our movies loud once in a while. For me I have blown my Mirage Center a few times when playing the original Matrix. One audio guy in a high end theater store said I would need to go with seperates if I wanted to listen to it loud once in a while since my Pioneer Elite could not deliver sufficient power.

I am reading magazines and the Internet now that I have visited all the stores. Oh yeah in one high end store the said we should get two subs to fill the room better.

What else do you need to know?

Kent

[KentF]

I sort of like this setup for B&W and I looked at Classe prices and this setup would be close to my budget. With Rotel I would have money to spare though as I would have to buy some good cables and a few other things. As you can see I am all over the place on the electronices but I have my heart set on the B&W and just want to get the right electronics to drive the B&W setup.

B&W (Possible Setup)
2 X 803D (These are more in line with my budget).
1 X HTM2D
2 X 805S
1 X ASW855

Classe
SSP-600
CA-5200 (Maybe more separtes for the AMP?)

or

ROTEL
RSP-1098
RMB1095 (Maybe more separtes for the AMP?)


Kent

[smjc99]

Kent,
I am in the same boat, How about ?

2 X 802 D - I thought they offered a lot more than 803D
1 X HTM2D
1 X ASW855 or ASW 825
Classe
SSP -300 instead of SSP-600
CA-5200 should be more than enough

Your 320KB may sound good( but better than 128KBS ) but not as good as original Cd's in a highly revealing system like above

Your dealer will recommend high end spkr cables for 802D's like transparent , cardas etc which are needed for spkrs at this level.

[Joey_V]

Hearing both, I would say dont scrimp on the mains seeing as you have enough cash. Go with the 802D as an anchor for your entire system.

[Audiophiliac]

802D, HTM2D, 805D (its coming I think) ASW825, Classe SSP300/CA5200.....mmmmmm I like.

[KentF]

Thank you for all the replies. I will take a hard look at the 802D's since they look amazing and the sound should be better too for that price.

The 805S should be more than good enough for surrounds right? 805D sounds even better since everything in my setup would be at the D level which just seems to make sense. I wonder how long someone would have to wait... hmm.

So for this setup it seems like the Rotel is not really good enough?

Cables, yes I saw those huge transparent cables. WOW. One rep said that the cables need to be the same length for all speakers but that was at a lower end home theater store. Is that really true? I am worried on how to run the rear surrond cables to the 805S's. Time for some more reading.

I am liking this setup too Audiophilac.

[Joey_V]

He just wants to sell you more cable... the shorter, the better generally. Dont pay too much attention to that quack.

[chuck1801]

2x802D
1xHTM2D
2x804S
Anthem AVM30, maybe stretch for the Statement D1
Classe 5200 or Anthem P5
ASW855 or ASW825
Should be able to get the above for $30K. The full-range 804S is IMO a better choice than the 805S or D. My $.02.

[miner]

Which Home Theater Store did you go to? Typically their discount is 15% on B&W, 10% on Rotel & 0% on Classe. At this budget & 2X for both of you, a better discount could be had with a bit of haggling.

[KentF]

Thanks for the info about the cable length. I always thought the shorter the better too. The guy said it was better if the sound reached each speaker at the same time by having the same cable lengths. Hmmm So if someone has a 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 setup then the cables to the mains (e.g. 802D) and center would have to be long too.

804S, hmmm, I will take a look at those.
Antem AVM30 hmmm, I will take a look at that one again. I noticed the AVM when I was looking at some lower end speakers than B&W. Actually I wanted those speakers first until I saw and heard the B&W.

I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. We went to places like Sounds of Music, Smarthomes, K & W, etc.

My friend is better at the haggling thing so depending on how he does might affect some of the electronics. I was thinking the same thing regarding the Classe equipment. I will be giving him the list of equipment to go with the B&W's this week so we will see how he does.

Thank you again for all the good comments/suggestions. This was most helpful.

Kent

[jim777]

Thanks for the info about the cable length. I always thought the shorter the better too. The guy said it was better if the sound reached each speaker at the same time by having the same cable lengths. Hmmm So if someone has a 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 setup then the cables to the mains (e.g. 802D) and center would have to be long too.

Yeah, the signal speed of conductors goes around 200,000,000m/s (2/3 of light) and the speed of sound is 340m/s. So you can tell that funny dealer that cable length is important for timing if your speakers are all at the same distance, measured with a 1/1,000,000 of an inch or so :rofl:

If you have all identical speakers and amps, one could argue that equal cable length would give the same damping factor for all speakers. That is the only logical case I can think of..

[Aussie Geoff]

KentF,

You may also want to consider the SCMS for the surrounds - they wall mount and sound 99% (identical to most ears) of the 805S. They are basically a 805S redeigned for wall mounting...

Geoff

[Kobus]

We do not see ourselves buying a high end CD (or DVD-ADIO/SACD) player for Music as we use our computers to store our music and aslo IPODS. We encode most of our Music from CD to 320K on hard drives
Kent

I have to agree with what someone mentioned. With the system you are looking at, 320K music will be a limiting factor. It should be fun to explore the path though.

Enjoy !

[jim777]

I have to agree with what someone mentioned. With the system you are looking at, 320K music will be a limiting factor. It should be fun to explore the path though.

Enjoy !

Lossy audio codecs will break up the fine time structure (pre-echo and stuff) and MP3 also adds a lot of aliasing, at any bitrate. It is *very* easy to hear even with my 703's (but I work in audio codecs, so I'm also a bit "trained").

[tboooe]

I agree with jim777. No matter what codec you use, any lossy format will degrade the original sound. Actually, from my experiences, I believe any kind of encoding even lossless like FLAC results in a change if not a decrease in the original sound quality. As jim777 pointed out, the change is mainly in the more intangible aspects of music like soundstage, weight, etc. A compromise would be to use lossless and then a high quality DAC. Even with this setup, I still prefer listening to the original cd through a cdp.

For someone like me with a lot of music (> 40K songs), I encode my music for convenience and ease of access (not to mention keeping the wife happy by not cluttering our house with 4000 cds). I encode at VBR 256. I find this format a good compromise between file size and quality. I also keep a pretty large stash of cds laying around that I can play through my cdp when I really want to enjoy high quality music.

Of course all of this is a mute point if you cannot hear the difference between the original cd going through a good cdp and digitally encoded music. For me, it is the micro not macro aspects of the music that is missing with encoded music. And it is precisely this last little bit of musical nirvana that I am trying to capture with all of my expensive audio gear.

[jim777]

Actually, from my experiences, I believe any kind of encoding even lossless like FLAC results in a change if not a decrease in the original sound quality.

The lossless compression itself ain't the problem; but your CDP might have the best DACs and less jitter than your HDD playback system. The best test to prove this would be to rip a CD, burn a copy, then compress and decompress with FLAC and burn another copy. The two copies played in the same CDP should now sound the same. Or do the test without burning CD's; keep an original and generate an encoded/decoded version with FLAC. Play both from the computer/DAC.

[KentF]

Yeah there is a trade off of convenience and then sound quality. I like to have all my music on the hard dive so that I can create playlists for all occasions and also allow my friends to create their own playlists. For me spending 2-5K for a CD player which I would not use very much is almost pointless. I guess one could argue why do I need B&W speakers and a high end system then? Hmmm. Do not know what to say here other than I hope my computer setup will be kickass with a DTS Live based audio card in the future and also better ripping from CD to hard drive via a codec like flac or something better in the future. I already know the sound is not as good when coming from a PC but I hope this gets better one day soon.

Like I said before I listen to 70% HDTV/DVD and next year it will be HD-DVD/Blue-Ray. Personally I wish things like DVD-AUDIO and SACD caught on for higher quality sound and surround sound instead of just stereo of CD’s. For me the diff between 320K today and my cheap SACD/CD/DVD player is not that much. Maybe I would notice with a nicer setup though.

I guess the bottom line for me is I like the sound I heard on the B&W but I also like the looks which just show class.

Personally I believe the future should allow you to store everything on a computer or similar device instead of disc. The only problem I have now is Hollywood & the recording industry not embracing the digital future. I want to have the programmed house that plays what I want when I want and not have me insert a CD/DVD. I am close to getting this working but at a quality I do not really care for. I just want to rip and then store my CD/DVD’s so that the originals are kept safe.

I believe the B&W speakers will be great for many years to come and the only thing that will change for me would be some of my electronics (Computers too). Storing all this audio and video should be economical to a point with 750GB hard drives available now and in the near future TB+ drives. I already have about 3TB in my house with an upgrade coming in the fall with the new technology like Conroe, Vista, etc.

OK, enough for now. I guess you can tell I am into technology like computers and have the best that they can offer on a given year. Now I want the sound to go with it instead of just Pioneer Elite and Mirage speakers. After this purchase it will be more flat panels and video surveillance with motion detection. After that I want to be able to talk to my computers and have motion diction tied to my home Server. OK someone slap me and wake me up.

Thanks again, I have learned tons from these comments and I value your time and opinions.

Cheers

Kent

[Kobus]

I guess the bottom line for me is I like the sound I heard on the B&W but I also like the looks which just show class.

And that is all that matters.

Remember that when you get your B&W 80x it is not only the sound that changes, but also the way in which you listen to music. This is when you will notice the difference in sound quality between CD vs "ripped".

Anyway you will love it.

Kobus