703 Help!!!

[b&w fan]

Finally my BW703 and my Rotel RB1080 are home!.

This is work in progress, so my preamplifier is still a receiver Rotel RX1050 and my CD player is still a hateful Sony DVD, one of those coming in a box of Corn Flakes. This is a music only system.

I must say though that the quality of the sound is much less than I was expecting. It is very bright and fatiguing. At high volume it really sound cheap. The stereo is in a 4 m x 9 m room lightly furnished.

My question to you is what to do next to improve ths sound quality of the system. What would have the greatest impact of its performance?

Is it about getting a new CD player?
What kind of room conditioning?
New preamp?
Speakers placement?

[dknightd]

My first advice is to let them run for awhile. After about 100 hours of use they settle down a bit.
My next advice would be to place some sound absorbers on the floor (area rug is OK) ceiling and walls at the first reflection points.

[chinets]

First, Get a new CD dedicated player, break those speakers in ,and YES ,you need some good room conditioning too !! I don't know your room..whether it sits on marble wood and the furniture etc. or the placement of your speakers, so can't give you advice on that either.
Send some pics of your set up ,and I am sure we will be able to help you and give you a hand!!
Cheers

[KRC]

Yes, first the source has to change, I also went from a generic Sony DVD player to a Rotel 1040 DVD player. The initial sound change was huge and that was going from a $100.00 DVD player to a $600.00 DVD player (sidebar, I wish I would have paid the extra money and got the Rotel 1050 since the change was that dramatic). I also purchased a pair of 703's on the 2 Jan 07 and as they have been run in they have gone from very big changes right from the box to continued subtle changes as I keep logging hours on them. So I recommend start with that and then you can see what could be next.

Kevin

[NMG]

I think you'll find that after they have a chance to break-in, the mids will get smoother and the highs, while getting more detailed, will lose some of that "out of the box" edge that you seem to be noticing. Definitely give them some time in those regards.

As far as your components go, I think the main weak link is your player. I'd definitely upgrade that and it should make a fairly noticeable difference.

Like the others have said, the characteristics of your room will also play a HUGE role. Do you have lots of reflective surfaces? Hardwood or carpet? Big plush furniture? Room furnishings can play a big role in how the sounds present themselves.

The only other thing I can add is that you now own very detailed speakers. Some recordings will sound blissful and some will sound just terrible. I think everyone who has purchased quality gear in their life has popped in one of their favourite CD's just to find that it wasn't what they were expecting. On the flip side, you are bound to find stuff where you say to yourself "I don't remember that sounding that good".

Good luck!

[Joey_V]

Try a new preamp... perhaps something tube.

[jim777]

Without a doubt, even after speaker break-in and basic room treatment, the 703's will sound harsh with that receiver and CDP.

I would suggest a stereo preamp-only solution (with no tuner!) and a CDP or very good DVD. The 703's are very reveiling speakers and will sound harsh if not used with great electronics.

In my case, my 703's are driven with a McIntosh MA6500 integrated amp. I also have a MCD201 CDP, but a new Rega model is also fine for these speakers.

Many people, including one that put duck-tape over the tweaters of his cheap sony boom box he has for "background" music, told me that he liked the sound of my system especially because it was not harsh... that told me everything!

[James63]

My best guess it that the problem is your cd player. I have a pair of 703s that I use an old Onkyo Reciever for.

They have plenty of bass and balence very well with my Toshiba HD-DVD player (which sounds better than my Arcam CD player!?!). I also have a cheapo 200 disc Sony player and with the sony the 703s are bright,harsh, and lifeless.

[amdan]

Finally my BW703 and my Rotel RB1080 are home!.

This is work in progress, so my preamplifier is still a receiver Rotel RX1050 and my CD player is still a hateful Sony DVD, one of those coming in a box of Corn Flakes. This is a music only system.

I must say though that the quality of the sound is much less than I was expecting. It is very bright and fatiguing. At high volume it really sound cheap. The stereo is in a 4 m x 9 m room lightly furnished.

My question to you is what to do next to improve ths sound quality of the system. What would have the greatest impact of its performance?

Is it about getting a new CD player?
What kind of room conditioning?
New preamp?
Speakers placement?

I had similar issues to yours with my 703s. I found them to be bright speakers. They seem to amplify any harshness upstream.

Your source is certainly an issue. Poor source is amplified by these speakers. I suspect you may also need to add a lot of soft furnishings to your room to dampen it. I found that helped with my system. Another huge improvement for me was to get a power conditioner. That also helped cut out a lot of the the harshness.

[jim777]

I had similar issues to yours with my 703s. I found them to be bright speakers. They seem to amplify any harshness upstream.

Your source is certainly an issue. Poor source is amplified by these speakers. I suspect you may also need to add a lot of soft furnishings to your room to dampen it. I found that helped with my system. Another huge improvement for me was to get a power conditioner. That also helped cut out a lot of the the harshness.

A power conditionner can also starve an amplifier.

I agree that a power conditionner can help, but in this case, other components like the source are obviously inadequat for the 703's.

[bigburner]

My CDM9NT speakers (B&W's predecessor to the 703) were very bright for a while, and like you I posted a thread on that subject 18 months ago. Now, after hundreds of hours of use, they sound very pleasant to me. So they are either broken in or my hearing has been damaged by excessive use!

I also noticed an improvement when I repositioned the speakers in my listening room, which is rectangular. Initially they were on the short wall with a wooden dance floor in front of them but now they're at the far end of the room on the long wall with a rug in front of them and furniture around them.

[Briz vegas]

I listened to my 705s again last weekend. 705s are supposed to be brighter than the 703. They sounded fine with little evidence of harshness - they were always a little bright in the past via my reciever as a pre.

I was running Nad T562 DVD -> CJ PV14 pre->100watt power ->705

What about getting a new CD player? - probably not yet- reciever may strangle improvement

What kind of room conditioning - best place to start - Heavy curtains and carpets should make a big difference - focus on those reflection points.

New preamp - yes - try tubes as option or any good pre-amp

Speakers placement? another excellent starting point - try toe in as well and be adventurous. Start by aiming each speaker at a point a couple of feet or more in front of your listening position (major toe in) this will reduce first order reflections off the side walls and should improve imaging. What works depends on your room so go crazy. Also try different space between the speakers and removing large objects between them (bring them foward)

Also interconnects - if you are using silver that can make the speakers sound more harsh/bright relatively

Try the no cost options for a few weeks before considering spending any money.

You can get those speakers to sound great, you just need to be prepared to take some time and get the tweeking right

have fun!

[Mitchell]

I found that my 703's sounded bright when I first brought them home. I even called the store to ask if there was anything that could be done such as an equalizer or a sub woofer to even out the response. They told me to just wait until they broke in and they should really mellow out.
I must say I didnt believe it but it really did change.

[Ted]

I don't have anything new to add really, but I agree with what others have said above. I also have some 703 that are about 2 months old and they were a little harsh at first. I don't notice it any more now that they are broke in.

The room they are in is relatively small and I had them really loud the other day 8O and they were bright then, but at normal listening levels I don't ever notice them being bright any more.

Give them some time and then start upgrading your other equipment. :W

[beden1]

I've had my 703's since September. I added a 750 sub which integrated extremely well with these speakers, and helped to bring all together nicely. A couple of other things I did to smooth things out; played them a lot; moved them away from the wall about 18"+; and I bi-amped them. These speakers like power and bi-amping did the trick.

I also hooked up my Sony ES9000 DVD/CD/SACD player and I agree that a quality player make a big difference with these speakers. The sound is now super smooth and balanced. I had a Pioneer Elite player hooked-up first (about a $600 player), and the Sony (about a $1,200 player) difference is noticeable. I think I've seen these for sale used on several sites. I replaced the Sony on my main home theater system with a Panasonic Blu-Ray player.

I have this set-up mainly for music, although it does sound very good for home theater. But, my other set-up is primarily for home theater and rock and roll music including dual Velodyne DD-12 subs, and does sound better suited for powerful imaging. The 703s are extremely accurate, and seem to favor jazz, soft rock, symphony, and solo artists, etc. The 703s can be played loud without missing a beat. But, better speakers like to play better music.

[steelgtr]

Digital Or Analog Out?

I think you'll find that after they have a chance to break-in, the mids will get smoother and the highs, while getting more detailed, will lose some of that "out of the box" edge that you seem to be noticing. Definitely give them some time in those regards.

As far as your components go, I think the main weak link is your player. I'd definitely upgrade that and it should make a fairly noticeable difference.

Like the others have said, the characteristics of your room will also play a HUGE role. Do you have lots of reflective surfaces? Hardwood or carpet? Big plush furniture? Room furnishings can play a big role in how the sounds present themselves.

The only other thing I can add is that you now own very detailed speakers. Some recordings will sound blissful and some will sound just terrible. I think everyone who has purchased quality gear in their life has popped in one of their favourite CD's just to find that it wasn't what they were expecting. On the flip side, you are bound to find stuff where you say to yourself "I don't remember that sounding that good".

Good luck!

I've always been confused as to how an expensive cd player vs. a cheap one using the digital audio output can be any different. Isn't the D/A conversion taking place in the preamp and dependent on its' quality of conversion? If you guys use the analog output on an expensive cd player, then I can see where that could be higher quality than the preamps coverters?

thx

bob

[Iggurk]

I've always been confused as to how an expensive cd player vs. a cheap one using the digital audio output can be any different. Isn't the D/A conversion taking place in the preamp and dependent on its' quality of conversion? If you guys use the analog output on an expensive cd player, then I can see where that could be higher quality than the preamps coverters?

thx

bob

Are you kidding?

If not I really suggest that you take some time to listen to a really good cd player, urgently.

seriously, it's case by case. It depends of the quality of your source and your pre-amp.

Some examples:

If you have a cheap source and a good pre-amp, use digital and let the pre-amp decode the digital stream.

If you have a good source and good pre-amp, try both DAC converter and use the one you prefer.

If you have really good source and really good pre-amp, use cd decoder and analog connections, and use bypass mode on the pre-amp.

yves

[steelgtr]

Are you kidding?
yves

No, I'm not.

I'm simply trying to establish if expensive CD players are expensive because the DAC's, etc are superior to cheap CDP's.


Are you saying that the digital output of a $20K CDP is significantly and audibly better than a $20 CDP?

I'm assuming that you pay big bucks for a CDP to *not* use the digital outs.


bob

[James63]

No, I'm not.

I'm simply trying to establish if expensive CD players are expensive because the DAC's, etc are superior to cheap CDP's.


Are you saying that the digital output of a $20K CDP is significantly and audibly better than a $20 CDP?

I'm assuming that you pay big bucks for a CDP to *not* use the digital outs.


bob

Not sure what to say here other than I find CD-players to be the second most important (after speakers) sound factor in the audio chain.

I have also found it best to use the anolog outs of the cd-player and bypass the DAC on my reciever (it is "cheap" $1200)

[BTB]

Hi steelgtr

Expensive cd players have other inherent advantages over cheap models. Things like the quality of internal components (from the transport mechanism used to the quality of internal power supply, etc) all affect sound quality. Obviously the more expensive the machine, the better components have been specced and the more obsessive the designers have been about getting it "right". And this is all before any signal reaches the DAC.

Then there's the issue of build quality... cheap player are typically lightweight affairs, whereas those costing more should be built heavier with more careful attention paid to isolation from vibration. I would think that the benefits gained in this regard require little explaination?

I don't use my CD player through any type of outboard DAC system, clearly there are systems out there that can improve on the onboard DAC, but basically what I'm saying is, there are other factors to consider... yes, digital is digital... but there are many other factors that will influence sound quality also, like those I've tried to highlight.

Basically it's not a "one size fits all" type of argument guys.

Back to your original post... the 703's are by their nature a little on the bright side. This is merely a comment, not a criticism, they are fantastic speakers. For my money I'd be looking for a better quality source, but be aware of the importance of system synergy... at the price paid for your 703's they will be pretty demanding of the quility of gear they are matched with, so really cheap "budget" players are to be avoided if you want to tone down the brightness, Ironically (considering that B&W is a British brand) the current crop of British budget "superstars" like the NAD C542, Arcam CD 73T & Cambridge 640 will all add to the problem, considering they have been voiced to work with cheaper speakers that don't have anywhere near the resolving power of a pair of speakers like yours.

Also your HT processor isn't helping matters either, esp. if you intend building a music system.

Room treatment is also vital, but consider the source first, room treatments next (or both together if you can afford it) and then a new pre amp. Assuming you've basically followed the manufacturers instructions on placement, moving the speakers around is unlikely to stop the brightness until these other factors are fixed.