803D, 803S or 804S?

[boss]

I have been using Rotel RB-1080 and JBL L112 for quite some time. The L112 pair has been arounnd for 20+ years now. It's aging quickly. I want to replace them with B&W.

I can't decide which model to get, 803D, 803S or 804S that is compatible with the Rotel RB-1080.

Please help!

Thanks! ;x(

[tboooe]

Personally, I think if you are going to keep your RB-1080 then I would get the 804S. I had this combination and I think it sounds pretty good. I think in order to get the best out of the 803 series you will have to upgrade the amp as well.

Is cost an issue? The three speakers you listed are very different in terms of price. Do you have the budget to upgrade the amp as well? If you can afford the 803D, perhaps getting the 803S with a new amp may be the best solution.

Have you listened to them? Which sound do you like? Also, how big is your room?

[Gump]

You will far and away get the most musical satisfaction from the 803D's. It's an awsome speaker. If you can do it financially (and I assume you can or you wouldn't be asking the question) then buy the 803D's now and enjoy it with the realization that a few years (or months) down the line you'll be able to upgrade your amp and even get more satisfaction from the 803D's.

The word in your post that's going to cause the most controversy in the replys that you get is "compatible". The 1080 might be more compatible with the 804S but if you're trying to reach a "happy place" in your musical world go for the better speaker. The 1080 will drive the 803D's at a level that will give you the most satisfaction, comparatively, until you choose to upgrade your electronics later.

[ShadowZA]

Couldn't put it better than Gump :T

If you can manage it, it's 803D's all the way. Give them a bit of time to break-in and then invest in a comfortable la-z-boy ... 'cause nobody's going to be able to get you outta that chair

[boss]

Wow! Thank you all for sharing your experience! I need a pair of speakers that I can live with for a long time (just like the L112s). From your replies I can now chart out my route map to that 'Happy Place' in my musical world!

[norpus]

Wow! Thank you all for sharing your experience! I need a pair of speakers that I can live with for a long time (just like the L112s). From your replies I can now chart out my route map to that 'Happy Place' in my musical world!

Yes, in that case go the D's

[tboooe]

care to share your route map????? I am interested in know what you decide.

[boss]

tboooe

I have auditioned 802D and 803D (driven by 2 Classe monobloc) at the dealer. They didn't have my kind of music (Charlie Haden, Enrico Pieranunzi type) but even the 803D plateau is a 'happy' enough place for me! The 802D is far beyond my league therefore I don't even have to think about it.

The Initial Map (subject to re-alignment):

The next thing I'll do is to go back and ask them to team up an RB-1080 with 803D and 803S for comparison. I have a feeling that they won't show much difference because of the capability of RB-1080. But then I can sketch out the next map.

The Modified Map:

The time line to upgrade the amp (and the rest).

I'll come back with more to share!

[Gump]

That's a great idea. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised (if not amazed) at how noticable a difference you'll find even with the 1080 as the demo amp.

Good luck and enjoy!

[lvhung]

Go and get 803 at 5000 $

But what is other equipment you use ?

[boss]

lvhung

The set up: RC-1070 Pre-amp + RCD-1072 CDP. Chord Rumor 2 Speaker Cables. RS Power Cables. RS All Silver interconnects. Solidsteel Rack.

I am not into multi-channel. So I have less issues to consider.

[fauzigarib]

803 What? 5000 what?

"Go and get 803 at 5000 $

But what is other equipment you use ?"

lvhung,

I assume you mean the 803S? What are the suggested retail prices on these speakers? The reason I ask is because I'm in Pakistan and the prices over here happen to be a little different.

803S?
803D?
802D?

Thanks,

Fauzi

[boss]

Gump

Thanks for your analysis. I'll find that 'happy place'!! ;x(

[Russ L]

Fauzi-
803S- $5500/prUS $7750CAD 3750 UK Pounds
803D- $8000/prUS $12000CAD 6000 UK Pounds
802D- $12000/prUS $18000CAD 9000 UK Pounds

Those are the actual prices in US and Canada. The UK values are just for reference Don't know if they actually sell in UK for more or less.

[dan87951]

If these speakers are going to be in a fairly large room I would go with at least the 803S they fill large rooms nicely and so do the 803D's. I had a set of N803's powered by a Rotel-RB-1080 which did the job just fine!

[boss]

dan

I reckon that N803 was the predecessor of 803S, is it not?

Then came the 803D where D stands for diamond tweeter, it that correct?

[gerardhn]

803d is far better. much discussed here. and it has a notiably higher sensitivity! you dont have to open your amp as much compared to to the S version.!

[Joey_V]

An 803D powered by a Yamaha receiver will sound better than a Polk R30 ($100 speaker) powered by Classe gear.... I can guarantee you that.

Speaker first, then amp second. DONT base your purchase on your amp as the future always holds something else in this hobby. I think you should go with the 803D and live with the 1080 for a little bit, then upgrade when and if you can in the future. Better to have the capability to move up rather than being held back because you settled for the 804S.

Not that there's anything wrong with the 804S.

[boss]

Speaker first, then amp second.

yes.

Now I look back in histroy, I bought a pair of JBL L112 back in 1984 (at the time very much beyond my normal means). My budget ran out and for many years, I drove them with some cheapy Denon AV Centre.


Then came QUAD 405
Then came ROTEL RB 1080

Thanks guys!! :T

[jimypeny2]

Hi

If we're trying pin point a weakest point between the Rotel pre-amp (RC 1070) and the Rotel amp (RB 1080) than I think the Pre-amp might be the standout.

I've read on the Rotel club that the RC 1090, which is Rotel's premium pre-amp, is about to be superceded so there should be some bargin prices to be obtained.

In my opinion, the Rotel RB1080 is not in the class of the RC1090 however i think someone like Aussie Joe could better assist you here.

regards

Jimmy

[boss]

jimypenny2

After much deliberation, my latest road map looks something like this:

Decide one or the other: B&W 803D or 803S (more likely 803D).

Live with RB-1080 for a while.

Upgrade the amp (perhaps next year): I am seriously considering a solidstate McIntosh, like MC252.

:W

[boss]

tboooe and All

After more research, my road map becomes clearer.

Read an article in Steroxxxxx Magazine of March 2002, RB-1080 was hooked up to B&W N800 and it appeared that the result was more than respectable.

I am now getting closer to securing a pair of 803D at the ultimate boundary of my limited budget.

I believe I can live with that combination for some time before I gather strength upgrade the amp.

Thanks again for the directions all of you have kindly offered! ;x(

B&W, hold on, I'm coming!!

[tboooe]

Thanks for the update boss. The 803D are great speakers!! You are going to really like it. I would suggest that you upgrade your preamp before the amp. From my experiences, the pre makes a bigger difference. Hmmm...I see a nice all Mcintosh setup in your future....

[Kal Rubinson]

Read an article in Steroxxxxx Magazine of March 2002, RB-1080 was hooked up to B&W N800 and it appeared that the result was more than respectable.

Yes but less than optimal. Still, it was a good showing at the price.

Kal

[Eliav]

tboooe


The next thing I'll do is to go back and ask them to team up an RB-1080 with 803D and 803S for comparison. I have a feeling that they won't show much difference because of the capability of RB-1080. But then I can sketch out the next map.

The Modified Map:

The time line to upgrade the amp (and the rest).

I'll come back with more to share!

Hi there !
you remind me of myself a year ago. I REFUSED to audition the 802d so that not to breach my budget, i went with the 803s and rotel 1095 at that time. within a year, i ended up upgrading my gear to classe delta top of the line gear and 802d, beware - addicting !!
__________________

[boss]

Kal,

The relative positioning is visualised like this:

respectabe << price/performance index < optimal

I can live with that.

Eliav,

One thing I need to practice, purely from budget management point of view, is to say no to 802/801/800 until my tongue bleeds :

tbooe,

Which McIntosh Pre you reckon? (I don't want to touch tube with a 10-foot pole because I don't have the time to nuture the technology)

[jim777]

Again (I think I said this elsewhere in the forum..), I listened to the McIntosh MCD201, MC275 and 802D's with and without a C220 (the 201 CD player has a pre w/headphone amp), and the C220 was so great! Everyone should have one, it's almost a bargain

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,
The relative positioning is visualised like this:
respectabe << price/performance index < optimal
I can live with that.

So can I.

Kal

[boss]

Kal

Any McIntosh ss Pre you recommend? Thanks.

[Kal Rubinson]

I've only ever used the C45 which I liked. No experience with any others.

Kal

[boss]

Thanks, Kal. 8)

[tboooe]

boss, if you like the Mac sound then the C45 or C46 will have great synergy with your Mac integrated.

[RebelMan]

boss, if you can manage the 803D in your budget then by all means do it. I started with the 803S and when I contemplated upgrading to the 803D or the 802D I found that the move up to the 803D would be an incremental one at best and not enough to justify the trouble or expense. (I probably would have felt differently coming from the 804S.) If you want to stave off from upgrading again too soon the 803D will be your best option and a more prudent move IMO.

[boss]

RebelMan

The sales guy at my local B&W dealer said they have difficulty selling 803S because it does not cost significantly less than 803D, but the difference in performance is very apparent. He even suggested that if I am not getting the 803D, I should skip 803S and choose 804 or even the 700 series to get better price/performance balance.

I find that advise quite reasonable.

[RebelMan]

boss, Under the controlled comparisons that I have made, all else being equal, the performance improvements going from say the 804S to the 803S to the 803D parallels the pricing structure of each respectively. Breakout performance doesn't really happen until you reach the 802D, albeit the price starts to climb exponentially too. With the right equipment the 803S can sound much bigger than they are narrowing the gap between it and the 803D but a gap still remains. Had I done it all over again I still would have chosen the 803S only because my plans included a matching center to satisfy my 50/50 needs and my budget at the time was more limited.

[boss]

"Had I done it all over again I still would have chosen the 803S"

That's thought provoking, RebelMan!

The instant saving I can realise is $2,500+ (between 803D and 803S), which fits nicely the budget of a decent McIntosh pre.

[jim777]

Yep, not too far from the nice $3300 tube C220 pre that makes wonders

[DM3000 Owner]

Boss,

Are you selling your JBL's?

Chris

[Gump]

RebelMan

The sales guy at my local B&W dealer said they have difficulty selling 803S because it does not cost significantly less than 803D, but the difference in performance is very apparent. He even suggested that if I am not getting the 803D, I should skip 803S and choose 804 or even the 700 series to get better price/performance balance.

I find that advise quite reasonable.

To me the difference in the sound of the the 803S vs 803D was significant, (leaving money out of it which I know is hard to do). When I originally went into my dealer it was with the full intention of getting the 803S which had been highly recommended to me. I listened to the 803S and was quite impressed with it until I asked the salesman to hook up the 803D's. In comparison I was knocked over by the sound. I new that if I bought the 803S's I would be sitting on my couch thinking about the difference in the sound with the 803D's and it would bug the heck out of me.

Very few people will tell you that the difference between the two is not obvious. What they might tell you is they don't think the sound difference warrants the jump in price. I disagree. It was worth it to me.

The financial/expense aspect is a personal issue for each of us. I know that the 802D's are a better speaker but I can't justify the price (yet). We each have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

This is your decision. You need to listen to these speakers side by side and draw your own line.

Good Luck!

[RebelMan]

I new that if I bought the 803S's I would be sitting on my couch thinking about the difference in the sound with the 803D's and it would bug the heck out of me.

This is exactly how I thought I would feel if I bought the 803D instead of the 802D that I was considering. So what did I do? I bought the 800D instead! No more worries. LOL

(Actually, it was a little (a lot) more complicated than that but mentioning how I felt at the time seemed befitting to your comments.)

[boss]

Gump and RebelMan

This thread has given me tremendous insight in my search for a pair of speakers that I can live with for a long time to come.

I am not an audiophile person. I enjoy savouring music more than chasing after audiophile sound, so-to-speak. You may have noticed that because I have lived with my L112s for 22+ years and I am quite happy with the outcome, all things considered.

In fact my first experience with B&W floorstands started a few weeks ago when I 'accidentally' strolled in the official B&W dealers audition room. They hooked up 802D to an all-CLASSE setup. And I said to myself, I want that (or something to that effect). The rest is history.

Again, financial constraints permit me to go 803D at the most, and I believe my 'happy music place' can be realised via the speakers replacement and subsequent upgrade of (some) of the sources.


DM3000 Owner, check PM please.

[boss]

BTW, 2 days ago I went back to the B&W dealer and they hooked up RB-1080 to a pair of 803D for me. I hadn't brought along my fav music, but the half-ass CD they spinned was good enough to show the potential of the combo.

[jim777]

Please do yourself a favor and consider at least listening to other brands of amplifiers if you go for a high end speaker like the 803D. IMO you would be getting only 1/3 of the 803D's potential. It was obvious with 703's so it must go for 803D's

[boss]

jim777

One step at a time, man.

[jim777]

jim777

One step at a time, man.

That's a man :T