B&W 703, 804s or 803s... Questions

[bowlman]

As you can see I am new to this site.

I have the upgrade blues. I have went from 705s to 703s..Am trying to figure out my next step.Should I go to the 804s or the 803s?? The Ds are out of my price range. I have noticed alot of you bypassed the 703s for the 804s,for a $1000.00 more were the 804s that much better? For 1500.00 more than the 804s are the 803s better??

I have listened to the full line of speakers and am wondering if the 804s is the better puchase of the 3? Or is it just cost? ( I have a Krell 400xi amp to power them).

Any advice is helpful. Thanks in advance...Rob

[B&W 700 Guy]

The 804 is a great speaker. But I didn’t hear the bang for buck of the 804 over the 703. Because you have the 703's, I would upgrade to 803.

But that just my opinion, the only thing I would trust is my own ears.

Cheers

[Fife]

Every higher line in the B&W is much better than the one under it. The difference lies on you sonic preferences. Ther higher up the line, the more detailed and better.

If you are an audiophile or thinking about becoming a 2 channel buff, you should start at the 800 series. Of course you could start at the 700 series if funds are tight. I would consider the 600 just for purely HT and not for 2 channel. Just my thought.

[Briz vegas]

Are you still using the Denon DVD as the source? If so you may get more improvement for the dollar by spending the money on a good CD player.

[Ade]

Diminishing returns...

As you can see I am new to this site.
I have the upgrade blues. I have went from 705s to 703s..Am trying to figure out my next step.Should I go to the 804s or the 803s?? The Ds are out of my price range. I have noticed alot of you bypassed the 703s for the 804s,for a $1000.00 more were the 804s that much better? For 1500.00 more than the 804s are the 803s better??
I have listened to the full line of speakers and am wondering if the 804s is the better puchase of the 3? Or is it just cost? ( I have a Krell 400xi amp to power them).

Any advice is helpful. Thanks in advance...Rob

Funny you should ask as 5 minutes ago I got back from a trip to Oslo where I laid out a chunk of change on... but I get ahead of myself... first things first

I'm pretty new to the world of Hifi - I've owned several systems over the years but nothing that could be considered even mid-fi and those have been HT systems - so over the past 6 to 8 months I've been researching and listening.

I was dead set on getting a set of Kef iQ's until I listened to the 703's which blew me away. I'd listened to the 704's first and they didn't and although they were nice speakers they just didn't exceed the Kef's enough to justify the 50% greater price difference. However, I did find that the 703's justified double the cost of the Kef's - the FST driver really makes a difference over the other speakers in the 700 series.

There I was ready to part with my cash when a friend of mine told me of the 804's he'd listened to over the previous weekend and how nice they were. I couldn't very well buy the 703's without first listening to the 804's after he’d said that even if they were way over the budget I'd set (the budget was a little redundant by now anyway as the 703's were 2x the original budget I'd set when I'd been planning on buying the Kef's).

So today I traveled into Oslo and demoed the 804's and the 703's next to each other. The demo room was a basement room with concrete walls and floor with a carpet and it wasn't treated in anyway - the bass on both speakers was a little boomy. In that room with my music I couldn't hear a huge amount of difference between the two - the 804 were a little more clear in the mid range and upper frequencies but nowhere near as big a difference as between the 704 and 703.

The high frequencies were less harsh on the 804 though - anyone with good hearing in the upper frequencies who has listened to the first 5 minutes of Roger Water's Amused to Death on the 703's will know that you almost (but not quite) wince in some places - the 804's didn't provoke the wince response at all in comparison.

Unfortunately my White Stripes CD's will have to be relegated back to the car as they sound awful on both the 700 and 800's.

OK, so is the 804 worth the almost 50% increase in cost over the 703? Well, how long is a piece of string? In my opinion, there certainly isn't a 50% increase in performance. Probably not even 20% but that could be down to the room that they were in when I auditioned them. There was a 10% difference in the smoother upper frequencies though and that clinched it for me.

Oh yeah, and they look a tad cooler than the 703 if you ask me – so I bought them. :B

I told them to deliver everything I ordered at the same time and as I have a 4306 on order I’ll have to wait a month – there’s a huge demand for the 4306 that Denon didn’t anticipate apparently and it’s going to take some time to get them in stock.

Anyway, back to the question; if I already had the 703 I wouldn't upgrade to anything in the 800 series below the 802 I think. But those are stupid, insane amounts of money - the laws of diminishing returns are starting to bite with a vengeance once you get to the 700 series anyway and from there on up it's an exponential increase in cost for an exponentially smaller increase in performance.

Oh yeah, and as someone said, you're less likely to hear the differences in HT applications compared to stereo music so if you're only into HT then don't bother!

But hey, it’s your money. :T

[audiojunky]

As you can see I am new to this site.

I have the upgrade blues. I have went from 705s to 703s..Am trying to figure out my next step.Should I go to the 804s or the 803s?? The Ds are out of my price range. I have noticed alot of you bypassed the 703s for the 804s,for a $1000.00 more were the 804s that much better? For 1500.00 more than the 804s are the 803s better??

I have listened to the full line of speakers and am wondering if the 804s is the better puchase of the 3? Or is it just cost? ( I have a Krell 400xi amp to power them).

Any advice is helpful. Thanks in advance...Rob

I'm running 804s using Krell 400Xi. On an integrated amp such as that, the 804s is a great upgrade, miles ahead of the 703. I was thinking of the 703 but after an A/B comparision, the 804s won hands down. The bass was much more defined and the soundstage wider. And it looks way cooler 8)

The $600-700 extra for the B&W 804s (after discount) is well worth it. Get it and you won't be wasting money when you realize that the 804s was what you should have got in the first place.

The 803s is a waste of money IMHO unless you have a really large room. As far as clarity, soundstage etc. is concerned, the 804s is exactly the same as the 803. The 803 might have slightly more bass. You should wait till you can get the 803d or the 802d :B

Till then you'll love the Krell / B&W 804s - trust me

PM if you need more help

btw ... I'm intersted in knowing at what typical volume do you listen to music using the Krell?

[bowlman]

Thanks for all the quick replys and hope to get more.
Sometimes another set of ears helps me understand what I am hearing or not hearing.Everyone on this site does a good job discribing what they hear and why.
I am also getting educated in what to look for in different components.

Audio junky, I just hooked up my Krell amp and it made the 703s sound quite a bit better. That is what started the upgrade bug..I listen at different volume levels but, the Krell makes the biggest difference at lower levels.All the back ground noise is gone,so it doesnt seem as loud but the music is cleaner.

[dknightd]

I prefered the 804 over the 703 enough that I would have bought them if I'd had the money. But, I did not want to get into debt for a stereo, and, I got what I think was a VERY good deal on a pair of 703's.
I guess my first question is - does your dealer allow full value trade in? If so, and you like the 804 $1k better than the 703, and you have the money, then I think it would be a good (though incremental) upgrade.
If you're going to loose money selling your 703 I'd consider waiting till you can jump to 803 (or 802 if possible). Incremental upgrades make no sense if you lose money everytime you do it - better IMO to wait till you can afford a bigger jump.
In the mean time, you might get bigger bang for your buck by investing in room treatments. IMO $1k spent on room treatments will get you more improvement than spending that money on a speaker upgrade (unless your room is already well treated).
In the end it is your money, and your ears. . .

[Pez]

[QUOTE]Oh yeah, and as someone said, you're less likely to hear the differences in HT applications compared to stereo music so if you're only into HT then don't bother! [QUOTE]

I wish that were the case for me. Even though my system use is 95% movies lesser speakers seem to be lacking in fullness. When had a pair of 705's (and other bookshelf speakers) they just didnt seem to fill the middle freq's and my sub was not blending well. I will admit some of it has to with my room but my 804's are a huge difference (xover is at 60). Special effects and particularily music in movies just seem to sound a lot better with the 804's than any other speaker I have owned.

[Ade]

[QUOTE=Pez][QUOTE]Oh yeah, and as someone said, you're less likely to hear the differences in HT applications compared to stereo music so if you're only into HT then don't bother!

I wish that were the case for me. Even though my system use is 95% movies lesser speakers seem to be lacking in fullness. When had a pair of 705's (and other bookshelf speakers) they just didnt seem to fill the middle freq's and my sub was not blending well. I will admit some of it has to with my room but my 804's are a huge difference (xover is at 60). Special effects and particularily music in movies just seem to sound a lot better with the 804's than any other speaker I have owned.

But you went from the 705's to the 804's and that's a major leap - the 703's to the 804's is not any where as near as large a leap or at least it didn't sound that way to me earlier today.

[Pez]

[QUOTE=Ade]

But you went from the 705's to the 804's and that's a major leap - the 703's to the 804's is not any where as near as large a leap or at least it didn't sound that way to me earlier today.

I agree totally with you on that, 705's and 804S's are not the same. What I was trying to say is that I often see the suggestion that if a speaker is used mainly for HT a lesser speaker will work fine. In my case I havent found that to be true. Never compared the 703's to 804's but I cant imagine it being a huge leap either.

One issue I have seen in regards to the 703, if used mostly for movies and multi-channel music is that the matching center doesnt blend very well. I havent heard it for myself but that comment seems to come up a bit.

[Ted]

I've been trying to decide between the 703 and 804 too (I can't justify the money for the 803s and certainly not the 803d though I'd love to go to that level). I compaired the two last weekend and was impressed by both speakers, but I liked the 804 more. I didn't really think I'd notice a difference (I wonder how good my hearing is in general all the time). It was noticable between the two though. The 703 seemed more bright between the two. If I bought the 703, brought it home and had never heard the 804, I don't think I'd ever realize it, or have any complaints about the 703, but since I have heard the 804s, I feel unless I just can't spend the money, I'll have to go with the 804s. They were just the step better on the higher frequencies. Again, I wonder about my hearing, but I didn't notice much difference on the mids and lower frequencies.

Good Luck!!

[RebelMan]

What I was trying to say is that I often see the suggestion that if a speaker is used mainly for HT a lesser speaker will work fine. In my case I havent found that to be true.

I concurr. I have found that a well put together HT system can sound amazing and one shouldn't skimp on quality equipment just because it is for movies.

When I attended the CES 2006 show in January I visited a number of booths displaying the new high-definition formats. One display in particular caught my attention; Toshiba's running a series of HD-DVD demos. I wasn't too impressed with the monitor they were using to showcase the video feed, the SED demo I saw just moments before spoiled me for that, but I did take note of the quality of the surround system that was used.

From my position I couldn't easily tell what they were using, the speakers were black and the room fairly dark making it somewhat a challenge. It wasn't until later that I noticed as I left the room that a pair of N804's were acting as surrounds. I went back inside for a closer look at the mains, center and sub, Guess what? The LR were N804's, the center was the NHTM2 and the sub was from the 700 series.

The moral of the story here is that cinema shouldn't have to take a back seat to music! :B

[Pez]

The moral of the story here is that cinema shouldn't have to take a back seat to music! :B

RebelMan - couldnt have said it better myself. I like big sound with no holes in it. Add the fact that the HTM3S is very similiar in driver config to the 804S's (the same really, just horizontal) makes one heck of a front soundstage! However my wallet may object to another pair for the rears.

[Ade]

I agree totally with you on that, 705's and 804S's are not the same. What I was trying to say is that I often see the suggestion that if a speaker is used mainly for HT a lesser speaker will work fine. In my case I havent found that to be true.

Ah, ok, yes, I agree but I think that quality differences are less obvious in HT applications.

One issue I have seen in regards to the 703, if used mostly for movies and multi-channel music is that the matching center doesnt blend very well. I havent heard it for myself but that comment seems to come up a bit.

Originally I was thinking of the 703+htm4 but having gone for the 804 I had to settle for the htm7 for now. I hope it sounds good enough in my room until I can afford the htm3.

[yourtoys7]

I couldn't deside 703 or 804S and I'm on very tight budget, but after a listen I wouldn't even consider 703, not that it is bad, but to 804S it is bright, thin and not as full. My wife advised me on 804S as she knows that I wouldn't be happy and would try to replace down the road. I'll start with 804S and wait for amp. down the road...
to my years it was very notisable.

[Pez]

Originally I was thinking of the 703+htm4 but having gone for the 804 I had to settle for the htm7 for now. I hope it sounds good enough in my room until I can afford the htm3.

I owned the HTM7 for a short time and really liked it, clear and crisp sound. If I am not mistaken I have seen a few setups using it with the 804's. Lets face it, the HTM3 isnt cheap. I never thought I would spend the money I did on speakers but I also consider them to be fine pieces of furniture.

[Ade]

I owned the HTM7 for a short time and really liked it, clear and crisp sound. If I am not mistaken I have seen a few setups using it with the 804's. Lets face it, the HTM3 isnt cheap. I never thought I would spend the money I did on speakers but I also consider them to be fine pieces of furniture.

Not cheap no, and this is Norway where everything is more expensive than almost anywhere else - we have only one chain that sells B&W here with a veritable monopoly and expensive though they are they still do not do discounts. I checked in two different branches and I was told exactly the same story and friends tell me it's a known fact that they never do on speakers and electronics. I got 50% off of cables though but that accounts for very little of the 11,000 US$ I spent there yesterday!

[Mitchell]

I started off looking at the 704's then focused on the 703's and then the dealer tried to interest me in the 804's.
Like some others that posted above I found a tremoundous difference between the 704s and the 703's. Between the 703's and the 804's not so much. I had to finally draw a line somewhere and I decided to do it with the 703's and I have been happy. There is no doubt that there was some difference and an even bigger difference when I listed to the 803's.
Every individual will need to figure out where that line needs to be drawn depending on budget and listening preference. I hope this is helpful.