Ok big dilemma for me brand new 804S or used 803S?

[jjahshik32]

Sorry about all these attack of the threads.. but as you guys noticed that I make alot of threads when the decision time comes..

I guess warranty is what I'm looking at and seems to me that the 804S is exactly the same in specs as the 803S just that the 803S has a bigger cabinet, .5" bigger Rohacell woofers and is that the only difference?

I can get an 803S only 5 months old from someone for $4500 or I can use the same amount and get it brand new from my local dealer for a 804S. What to do.. what to do.. the warranty of 5 years seems good to me with a brand new 804S.. but then either way I go I'd get an improvement from the 805S that I'm used to. But I guess one thing that I'm worried is if I'll be disappointed with the 804S and if it doesnt add a huge improvement as to the current 805S that I own.

I hear that the 803S are the sweet spot.. are they that much better than the 804S? What I would think is that I think out of the 804S, 803S, the 804S would be the better buy for the $$ and only the 803D would be the only way to get a bigger improvement.. am I wrong??

I know that I can get the 803S at the same price as the 804S BUT that 5 year warranty from b&w would be well worth it to me.

[cug]

In that case, I'd get the new ones. For me: the 803S is not worth the money, for my personal taste, I don't like the 803D sound compared to the 802D.

Again: my personal opinion. I'd get either 802D or 804S. Everything in between is not to my liking - or I'm not willing to spent the money for a result, that I don't like. YMMV.

[jjahshik32]

In that case, I'd get the new ones. For me: the 803S is not worth the money, for my personal taste, I don't like the 803D sound compared to the 802D.

Again: my personal opinion. I'd get either 802D or 804S. Everything in between is not to my liking - or I'm not willing to spent the money for a result, that I don't like. YMMV.

Thanks for the fast response. I guess this is the answer I was looking for. I like new equipment.. even though the 803S is only 5 months old and its just a bit bigger. My room is relatively small where the 805S can easily fill it up and I would think the 804S would be more than powerful enough for my room and even more than enough to fill in my living room which isnt that small.

I guess the 803S would just have a louder bass as to the 804S? But what I'm concentrating on is the midrange and I think what I'm missing from the 805S is the FST drivers as I think that's what I'm yurning for. But seems to me the midrange is exactly the same between the 803S and 804S.

[kobestonecold]

just get the B&W sub brother. you will not see much dif. if you upgrade from 805s to 804s. at least need to get 803d but it is too expensive. 805s + sub >>> 804s anytime.

Just me.

[jjahshik32]

just get the B&W sub brother. you will not see much dif. if you upgrade from 805s to 804s. at least need to get 803d but it is too expensive. 805s + sub >>> 804s anytime.

Just me.

Thanks alot for your comment I see that your an 805S owner/lover as well!! For such small speakers man I'd say they are the best $$/performance and they do pack alot of punch!

Right now I'm heavily contemplating on either adding a sub OR a mcintosh power amp. Which would make a bigger difference? I know the 805S are at 120W @ 8 ohm so if I were to say get an mcintosh mc252 or even a 352 would that drive these and make them much more powerful/cleaner??

Right now I have the 805S connected to the rotel ra-985BX and seems to sound very nice I like the combo very much.

I read and hear that the 805S--->804S is not a huge difference BUT my question is on the midrange. I know what to expect for the 804S to sound like in the highs as they use the same tweeter and crossover as the 805S but I'm curious as to how much better the FST driver will make. Honestly for the size of my room the 805S bass is good enough for now but if the 804S will have a bigger bass then it would be more than enough for me.

I guess the real question is.. the FST driver for midrange that much more worth it for the 804S jump from the 805S?

Also what sub do you recommend with the 805S?

I've also thought about buying a pair of the b&w stands for the 805S and a nice new mcintosh amp for the price difference for the 805S to the 804S.

[jjahshik32]

Pretty much my 2 choices are:

1) Sell the 805S use the funds + extra $$ for a brand new pair of 804S.
2) Keep the 805S use the funds that would have spent on for the difference on the 804S for a mcintosh 252 + b&w 805S stands or sub + b&w 805S stands.

Which do you think would be better?

[kobestonecold]

I have the Rotel RB 1080, RC 1090 and RCD 1072 to drive 805s and they are very fantastic. I never heard mcintosh setup before so i can't say if it will make an major improvement over my system. I believe my current setup is really hard to beat in term of sound quality. Anyway, adding a sub would make the 805s really stand out even more than adding mcintosh amp. I can say that ROTEL gear is really well match for B&W 805s.

The FST on 804s will beat 805s anytime but will not beat 805s + a good B&W.
I have B&W MT20 for HT only and B&W 805s plus Rotel gears for music only.
I am using B&W AS2 subwoofer that come with MT20 package with 805s and very satisfied with my music setup. My room is not big like your so i really don't need a bigger brother subwoofer like ASW.

[kobestonecold]

Go with choice 1 if you really want easy setup with less hassle. CON-less bass than 805s + sub.
Go with option 2 if you really want more bass but much more hassle. CON-Pay more than 804s?

The midrange would be the same.

[jjahshik32]

I have the Rotel RB 1080, RC 1090 and RCD 1072 to drive 805s and they are very fantastic. I never heard mcintosh setup before so i can't say if it will make an major improvement over my system. I believe my current setup is really hard to beat in term of sound quality. Anyway, adding a sub would make the 805s really stand out even more than adding mcintosh amp. I can say that ROTEL gear is really well match for B&W 805s.

The FST on 804s will beat 805s anytime but will not beat 805s + a good B&W.
I have B&W MT20 for HT only and B&W 805s plus Rotel gears for music only.
I am using B&W AS2 subwoofer that come with MT20 package with 805s and very satisfied with my music setup. My room is not big like your so i really don't need a bigger brother subwoofer like ASW.

I do agree rotel does match the b&w really well but ever since I've heard the mc402 on a center piece for the htm4 I was amazed how it made the small htm4 sound so big and so clean in a demo room at my b&w dealer. The room was pretty big maybe 2-3 times bigger than my living room! :E

I think adding a sub would be a great idea.. but I'm yurning for that 3 way sound from a floor stand.. and leaning a bit more on selling the 805S and opting for the 804S.

[scanido]

jjahshik32 - do yourself a favor and try to listen to these speakers and tell us what you think...

[kobestonecold]

I know after you have made the decision you would need power filter and cable.

Before i was using silver plate speaker cable and IC cable, i thought they sound perfect. After that i was really into pure silver 99.9999% cables, boy what a difference did it make over silver plate. Just me

[jjahshik32]

I know after you have made the decision you would need power filter and cable.

Before i was using silver plate speaker cable and IC cable, i thought they sound perfect. After that i was really into pure silver 99.9999% cables, boy what a difference did it make over silver plate. Just me

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll give the pure silver cables a try! You know where I can order some for a good price online?

[jjahshik32]

jjahshik32 - do yourself a favor and try to listen to these speakers and tell us what you think...

I've never heard the 805S + sub before.. my dealer doesnt have a sub connected to the 805S and I think they are not even the 805S on demo and are the N805.. BUT he does have the 804S on the floor which I'll try tomarrow! If I dont notice much of a difference then I'll stick with my 805S but if its has a difference of night a day.. you guessed it I'll probably buy the 804S first then just sell my 805S.

Another question, do you guys think my current htm4 will still be a good match with the 804S? Or is the htm3 the way to go? From speaking on a ht setup that is.

[kobestonecold]

I am in NZ so i am not really sure where you can get one from state. Try Google maybe.

Sorry can't discuss much about cable coz cat rules.

[jjahshik32]

The midrange would be the same.

Really you think the midrange would be the same even if the 805S + sub doesnt have an FST driver??

[cug]

No, it won't be the same. It will be different.

Whether it's better or not - matter of taste. But you'd probably need two subwoofers to get the stereo sound right:

http://www.roger-russell.com/truth/truth.htm#twosubwoofers

Have fun reading. The rest of the pages are worth reading too.

[jjahshik32]

No, it won't be the same. It will be different.

Whether it's better or not - matter of taste. But you'd probably need two subwoofers to get the stereo sound right:

http://www.roger-russell.com/truth/truth.htm#twosubwoofers

Have fun reading. The rest of the pages are worth reading too.

Thanks for that, a great read!

[cug]

Thanks for that, a great read!

Yeah, thought that too. I really like his pages. He covers a lot of interesting topics. And he's somebody who should know a bit about sound.

Btw: congratulations to your decision regarding the 803S.

Do you know whether the 803S where played more often or longer than the 804S in the store? When I compared the 804S to the 805S there was a large difference between the two speakers and a way smaller difference between the 804S and the 803S. And with speakers, they might need at least a little bis of basic run in for all the moving parts.

All of the speakers in the store where I listened where used very often for demos.

[Alaric]

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll give the pure silver cables a try! You know where I can order some for a good price online?

http://www.catcables.com/

[jjahshik32]

Yeah, thought that too. I really like his pages. He covers a lot of interesting topics. And he's somebody who should know a bit about sound.

Btw: congratulations to your decision regarding the 803S.

Do you know whether the 803S where played more often or longer than the 804S in the store? When I compared the 804S to the 805S there was a large difference between the two speakers and a way smaller difference between the 804S and the 803S. And with speakers, they might need at least a little bis of basic run in for all the moving parts.

All of the speakers in the store where I listened where used very often for demos.

Not sure if one was older than the other.. but i do know by the looks that both 803S and 804S looked used with dings on the side.

[jjahshik32]

Ahh I just backed out from the 803S deal.. I tried 2 channel music listening with the 805S and this time I have it backed next to the wall without the htm4. They do sound nice and I remember why I chose the bookshelf speakers because I wanted something compact with a bit of a punch + the high's were important to me. The mids is awesome of course in the 803S but I guess in the end I couldnt justify the extra $$ going for the 803S and selling the 805S + htm4 losing another $900-$1000 from 6 month old speakers.

So basically for me to pay for the 803S even at the very good price and after selling my 805S and htm4, I'd be paying the same amount as if I were getting a brand new 803S. Not to mention getting it used with no warranty just bugs the hell out of me.

I think I'll stick with my trusty 805S for a long while until I feel like they are not giving me what I want. In the meantime I will just add a sub after selling my htm4 and will be good to go as I'm more of a 85%-90% movie/15%-10% 2 channel music listener.

I just cant believe by moving the 805S around it could sound so much better! And I havnt used 2 channel mode in a while and the 805S just suddenly sound ALOT fuller! Using it in 5.1 is NOT a good idea with the 805S! 2 Channel is so much better. I know if I brought the 803S home it would be even better but I guess why replace something that your really satisfied with anyway!!

But one good thing did come of this is that I realized I didnt need the htm4, I just love 2 channel best! :T

Thanks guys!!

[kmcheng]

I think I'll stick with my trusty 805S for a long while until I feel like they are not giving me what I want. In the meantime I will just add a sub after selling my htm4 and will be good to go as I'm more of a 85%-90% movie/15%-10% 2 channel music listener.

I just cant believe by moving the 805S around it could sound so much better! And I havnt used 2 channel mode in a while and the 805S just suddenly sound ALOT fuller! Using it in 5.1 is NOT a good idea with the 805S! 2 Channel is so much better. I know if I brought the 803S home it would be even better but I guess why replace something that your really satisfied with anyway!!

But one good thing did come of this is that I realized I didnt need the htm4, I just love 2 channel best! :T

I think I am a little confused by this. I also own a pair of 805S. I agree that they are fantastic in two-channel. I also use them for HT and think they perform very well there too. I do not use a center channel for HT because of the physical constraints of my cabinet. Now sometimes I do feel that I would benefit a lot from having a matching center channel.

So if you are 85% HT why would you not want a center channel? And why do you think that the 805S is not a good idea for HT? Just curious.

[jjahshik32]

I think I am a little confused by this. I also own a pair of 805S. I agree that they are fantastic in two-channel. I also use them for HT and think they perform very well there too. I do not use a center channel for HT because of the physical constraints of my cabinet. Now sometimes I do feel that I would benefit a lot from having a matching center channel.

So if you are 85% HT why would you not want a center channel? And why do you think that the 805S is not a good idea for HT? Just curious.

For some reason using 2 channel with the L/R from the 805S I feel I get more sound than when I set my yamaha to 5.1 channel. The center for dialogue and the L/R from the 805S sounds too laid back not to mention sounds separated and I've moved them around alot to get it right but nothing~. But once you just set it on 2 channel (even for dts) it sounds much fuller with even more bass and when the 805S speakers are set right it just integrates and disappears and sounds like you have the best L/R/C!

Basically the 805S gets held back wayy too much or as I would call it robbed of the full potential of the 805S speakers if you use 5.1.

I'm probably going to get a sub next and a real high end amp (preferably a mcintosh mc402) that can handle future upgrades down the road and I'll be sticking to 2 channel for movies and music. And maybe in 5-7 year time I'll move on up to the 803D or better yet 802D! :T

[kmcheng]

For some reason using 2 channel with the L/R from the 805S I feel I get more sound than when I set my yamaha to 5.1 channel. The center for dialogue and the L/R from the 805S sounds too laid back not to mention sounds separated and I've moved them around alot to get it right but nothing~. But once you just set it on 2 channel (even for dts) it sounds much fuller with even more bass and when the 805S speakers are set right it just integrates and disappears and sounds like you have the best L/R/C!

Basically the 805S gets held back wayy too much or as I would call it robbed of the full potential of the 805S speakers if you use 5.1.

I'm probably going to get a sub next and a real high end amp (preferably a mcintosh mc402) that can handle future upgrades down the road and I'll be sticking to 2 channel for movies and music. And maybe in 5-7 year time I'll move on up to the 803D or better yet 802D! :T

JJ: I am very interested in your experience in using the 805S in a 5.1 setting. I am debating whether to acquire the HTM4 as a center channel over the objection of my wife (for aesthetic reasons). So is it your experience that not using a center gives you a more satisfying result than using the HTM4 with 805S? This is very interesting. My dealer does not have an HTM4 available for loan, so I cannot demo it in my home. However, your post will probably save me $2000+ in the speaker+stand.

[jjahshik32]

JJ: I am very interested in your experience in using the 805S in a 5.1 setting. I am debating whether to acquire the HTM4 as a center channel over the objection of my wife (for aesthetic reasons). So is it your experience that not using a center gives you a more satisfying result than using the HTM4 with 805S? This is very interesting. My dealer does not have an HTM4 available for loan, so I cannot demo it in my home. However, your post will probably save me $2000+ in the speaker+stand.

Imho the htm4 is not worth it. My HT consist of a 52" Sony Bravia XBR4, yamaha v861 hd receiver,rotel RA-985BX amp and 805S for L/R and have the HTM4 as the center piece and I use some floor standing speakers that I picked up for free that's pretty good for the rears. I think Rears are not nearly as important as the fronts.

I did enjoy the 5.1 DTS but I felt like even with the volume cranked up the htm4 center piece felt a bit too weak even in my relatively small room. I've moved around the speakers including the htm4 many times but using 5.1 I felt the sound was lacking in the fronts.

To me the 805S used in 2 channel stereo mode even in DTS sounded much fuller with more bass to boot. Even the dialogue with the htm4 by itself sounded very dull and lacking and the 805S playing the individual soundeffects/music felt lacking as well and bass. The 805S clearly felt like it was underpowered to 65%-70% as to 2 channel stereo felt the full 100% effect!

Especially the dialogue coming straight from the 805S including the music/sound effects felt so much fuller especially the 805S positioned in the corner back wall with the right positioning I felt there was an invisible center piece while the 805S pumped 100% everything else from the L/R.

I think you should save your $$$ from getting an htm4 if your thinking about using your 805S as mains. And you should invest in a sub if you dont have one (like me) or getting a better amp which I'm so close into pulling the trigger on an mcintosh mc252! :T

In the end I think 5.1 or even 7.1 is overrated (no offense to those who have it in those settings its just my opinion). I think I would take 2 channel for movies and music anyday over a 5.1/7.1 and especially for price as well.

My dream setup right now is an mcintosh mc402 with B&W 802D or 803D's as L/R in 2 channel mode... drooll ;x(

[rodH]

OK, I have to get in on this thread, as a HUGE fan of B&W, McIntosh, and Rotel.

I have or had or lived in a house where we have or had the following equip: B&W: CC3, CDMCNT, HTM2, CDM7NT, CDM9NT, N805, N804, N803, 802D, 601, 602

Rotel RSP1066, about 4 other Rotel amps from 70X2 to 150X3, and Marsh Sound Design 200X2. McIntosh MC2105, MC202, MC252, MC150, MC7205, MX135, MX132

What I am currently running is (in a smallish sized room) is a set of B&W N804, HTM2, MX132, MX150 (for mains), MX7205 (for center and rears), SVS sub, to Velodyne SC12" to DIY sub with 2 12" TC1000.

My dad has a set of N803 he was going to give me and I was supposed to give my little bro my N804. I declined the deal. For this small room, the 803 would look too big and bulky and frankly I don't really think they are a step up (not even considering price). If I had a larger room I might have done it. now my bro doesn't want the N803 because they are too big, so we went and bought N805 and HTM2. N803 are for sale.

My dad was running Mx135 with MC252 with 802D, MC202 with HTM2, and MC2105 with B&W in ceiling speakers.

When we went and tried to compare the N803 to the 802D side by side, I wasn't really noticing much of a difference in the tweeter which was a bit surprising, I was noticing a larger difference in bass (which is to be expected) and clearity of the mids. The mids are what surprised me, since they have the same driver, BUT I guess the X-over and cabinet design might have something to do with it?

I really like the 805, but you need a SUB, and if HT get the proper center channel. In some ways I kind of wish I had some 805 to save space, but I don't even tell my wife that. Also, I really do like the FST design, and I think the person was right when they said there is a larger difference between the 805 to 804 than the 804 to 803. I totally agree!!!

That being said, What are you planning on using as far as a pre/pro? Yamaha? We all use to have have Yamaha recievers as well, then used them as a pre/pro and got Rotel amps, then upgraded the yamaha to rotel pre/pro.

My dad eventually went full Mc with his 803 and it sounded amazing. I ended up getting some Mc stuff on Audiogon, BUT I didn't want to run the Mc amp with a Rotel pre/pro (I think the great sound is more than just the amp, but the pre/pro as well). I was amazed when I first started listening to the system. I like Rotel for what it is, but I think it is for B&W CDM level stuff (can't remember name of the new replacement) and below, ROTEL is great, but if you get 800 series stuff, this is where Classe and Mc step in. I do think that if you are in a pinch for money and space, the largest Rotel amp with the 805s are a decent way to go.

When you get the MC252/402 are you planning on getting a new pre/pro? If not, I would probably save your money. Another option (which I did) was to buy a used, less powerful Mc amp. I got an MC150 for about $1500. Other options are the MC202, etc.... You can get used Mc Pre/pro MX132 or 134 on the $2000-3000 range. I am just not sure you would want to spend a boatload of money on the MC252 and run the 805 with a Yamaha pre/pro.

Also, find a good musical sub as well if you keep the 805 (or even if you get the 803 or 804).

Good Luck!!!!

[jjahshik32]

OK, I have to get in on this thread, as a HUGE fan of B&W, McIntosh, and Rotel.

I have or had or lived in a house where we have or had the following equip: B&W: CC3, CDMCNT, HTM2, CDM7NT, CDM9NT, N805, N804, N803, 802D, 601, 602

Rotel RSP1066, about 4 other Rotel amps from 70X2 to 150X3, and Marsh Sound Design 200X2. McIntosh MC2105, MC202, MC252, MC150, MC7205, MX135, MX132

What I am currently running is (in a smallish sized room) is a set of B&W N804, HTM2, MX132, MX150 (for mains), MX7205 (for center and rears), SVS sub, to Velodyne SC12" to DIY sub with 2 12" TC1000.

My dad has a set of N803 he was going to give me and I was supposed to give my little bro my N804. I declined the deal. For this small room, the 803 would look too big and bulky and frankly I don't really think they are a step up (not even considering price). If I had a larger room I might have done it. now my bro doesn't want the N803 because they are too big, so we went and bought N805 and HTM2. N803 are for sale.

My dad was running Mx135 with MC252 with 802D, MC202 with HTM2, and MC2105 with B&W in ceiling speakers.

When we went and tried to compare the N803 to the 802D side by side, I wasn't really noticing much of a difference in the tweeter which was a bit surprising, I was noticing a larger difference in bass (which is to be expected) and clearity of the mids. The mids are what surprised me, since they have the same driver, BUT I guess the X-over and cabinet design might have something to do with it?

I really like the 805, but you need a SUB, and if HT get the proper center channel. In some ways I kind of wish I had some 805 to save space, but I don't even tell my wife that. Also, I really do like the FST design, and I think the person was right when they said there is a larger difference between the 805 to 804 than the 804 to 803. I totally agree!!!

That being said, What are you planning on using as far as a pre/pro? Yamaha? We all use to have have Yamaha recievers as well, then used them as a pre/pro and got Rotel amps, then upgraded the yamaha to rotel pre/pro.

My dad eventually went full Mc with his 803 and it sounded amazing. I ended up getting some Mc stuff on Audiogon, BUT I didn't want to run the Mc amp with a Rotel pre/pro (I think the great sound is more than just the amp, but the pre/pro as well). I was amazed when I first started listening to the system. I like Rotel for what it is, but I think it is for B&W CDM level stuff (can't remember name of the new replacement) and below, ROTEL is great, but if you get 800 series stuff, this is where Classe and Mc step in. I do think that if you are in a pinch for money and space, the largest Rotel amp with the 805s are a decent way to go.

When you get the MC252/402 are you planning on getting a new pre/pro? If not, I would probably save your money. Another option (which I did) was to buy a used, less powerful Mc amp. I got an MC150 for about $1500. Other options are the MC202, etc.... You can get used Mc Pre/pro MX132 or 134 on the $2000-3000 range. I am just not sure you would want to spend a boatload of money on the MC252 and run the 805 with a Yamaha pre/pro.

Also, find a good musical sub as well if you keep the 805 (or even if you get the 803 or 804).

Good Luck!!!!

Thanks alot you helped me learn alot more today!

Yea seems to me its very expensive upgrade and I thought I'd be done after getting the mc252! Well I guess that would be halfway, lol. I was more of a visualphile before I got into the world of audio.. and all I can say is that audio equipment is ALOT more expensive than visual equipment! :M