804s compaired to old 804, amplification

[Holland]

Hi,

As you can see I am pretty new here, but not new to B&W speakers since I owned a couple of these (p6, 601s3). I also listend (dreweled) enough at the 804/802/800 in my audio shops. Since i didnt feel the 804 was worth the investment over my old p6 I never got them.

Now I moved to the USA its time for new speakers and altrough I look around for other brands, I kind of like the B&W 'sound'. Alrough I also have my problems with them sometimes.
So here it comes, a question probably asked many times, what are the differences between the new 804s and the old 804. As I mentioned I listed to the old 804 before but found them a bit too analytical sounding, meaning I they didn't get my toes tapping and didn't involve me as much as I would have liked in the music. My question how much do the new 804s solve this 'problem'.
I know its all personal and I will go and have a listen at them when I have time to visit a dealer here. But I would like to hear some opions about it also.

Second, Iam looking into some poweramps, since I will be setting up a new homecinema system. I came across many but in reviews the bryston (9BSST) is often favoured. Also I came across the Athem p6 which costs as much as the bryston but has more power. Does anyone have experience with those amps??? I know B&W needs a lot of amp power so thats why I start quite high up the amp ladder

[RebelMan]

Without getting into all of the well published specification details, the biggest "audiable" differences between the old and new series is in time coherence. Beyond that, the other less obvious but noticeable improvements are smoother and more detailed highs, cleaner and more open mids, tighter and more authoritative lows.

In general any Bryston amplifier will pair very well, musically speaking, with any of the 800 series models. The low end of the series (like the 805s) would probably be best served by the 9B SST. As you climb up the the 800 series tree, you will find the need to use Bryston's more powerful offerings.

[akhter]

Hi,

As you can see I am pretty new here, but not new to B&W speakers since I owned a couple of these (p6, 601s3). I also listend (dreweled) enough at the 804/802/800 in my audio shops. Since i didnt feel the 804 was worth the investment over my old p6 I never got them.

Now I moved to the USA its time for new speakers and altrough I look around for other brands, I kind of like the B&W 'sound'. Alrough I also have my problems with them sometimes.
So here it comes, a question probably asked many times, what are the differences between the new 804s and the old 804. As I mentioned I listed to the old 804 before but found them a bit too analytical sounding, meaning I they didn't get my toes tapping and didn't involve me as much as I would have liked in the music. My question how much do the new 804s solve this 'problem'.
I know its all personal and I will go and have a listen at them when I have time to visit a dealer here. But I would like to hear some opions about it also.

Second, Iam looking into some poweramps, since I will be setting up a new homecinema system. I came across many but in reviews the bryston (9BSST) is often favoured. Also I came across the Athem p6 which costs as much as the bryston but has more power. Does anyone have experience with those amps??? I know B&W needs a lot of amp power so thats why I start quite high up the amp ladder

I compared then side by side in the same store/same room using the same McIntosh amp & same music, and couldn't tell the difference. I still wanted the 'newer' model, but when the dealer offerered me the N804 at 2700 vs 4000 for the 804s, basically a little over the price of the 805s+stands and cheaper than the 704 it was a no brainer for me. I don't doubt that others with better hearing can tell the difference as I am a newbie audiophile by any standards, so demo if you can with you OWN music, not stuff dealers use to showase differences in speakers.

[Holland]

Thanks for the help, how does time coherence play out music/sound wise?

I once heard some Jean Mary reynaud speakers and with the right material the music was in the room. So I could musicaly see the intrument in front of me. I have to say I never had thay experience before. To my experience normaly a speaker puts a picture down, which can be big or deep but not the instrument itself. So Iam kind of hoping the new 804s can also put a holografic picutere in front of me. But I have to be fair its really related to the music, my own music didnt put any holographic stuff down with any speaker. Maybe I listen to too much trash music

I will take some of my music to the dealers to listen, but I doubt if I find any with the old 804 also left.

[miner]

I compared then side by side in the same store/same room using the same McIntosh amp & same music, and couldn't tell the difference. I still wanted the 'newer' model, but when the dealer offerered me the N804 at 2700 vs 4000 for the 804s, basically a little over the price of the 805s+stands and cheaper than the 704 it was a no brainer for me. I don't doubt that others with better hearing can tell the difference as I am a newbie audiophile by any standards, so demo if you can with you OWN music, not stuff dealers use to showase differences in speakers.

Like Akhter, I too listened side-by-side and could not really tell MUCH of a difference. The lows on the newer 804 was a bit tighter but when I was offered $2800 for the N804 I jumped on the deal plus with the difference ($$)between the new & old model I was able to purchase a discontinued ASW800 sub which really rounded out the full spectrum of sound. Look around and you will be babe to find some old N804 still available.

[Aussie Geoff]

U

As I mentioned I listed to the old 804 before but found them a bit too analytical sounding, meaning I they didn't get my toes tapping and didn't involve me as much as I would have liked in the music.

I am a big B&W fan - and for me the new 800 series is even more analytical / detailed and involving than the previous one.... Which is a good thing for me - but may not be what you are seeking...

So that (with all the other posts above) may mean that unless you step up to the lofty heights of (say) the 802D (which is IMO a generation ahead in sound of the 804) you should also consider speakers with a different house sound than the B&Ws.... (I know, I know this is B&W forum and I am the moderator, but speakers are personal and I respect differences in people's taste - else we would all have the same clothes, car, house etc...)

Try a range such as the Klipsch Reference (very different from the B&W) and the Paradigm Studio or Reference Series... Quite different sounds and see if they are more like the sense you want from speakers...

Geoff

[Holland]

Well I don't have anything against analytical in being hearing everything but it shouldn't get in the way of how involving a speaker sounds. I found the old b&w's a bit lacking in there. The problem is I love the b&w sound, I also listend to revel, dynaudio, kef (old series are good but new are lesser), jean mary reynaud (altrough very natural, maybe a bit to natural for me) JBL, mission avalon&wilson (nice but too much $ for what you get) and many other brands I don't realy recall and still I find the b&w more pleasing. I don't know why, I was shopping some time ago for standmounts and looking for another brand of speaker for a different sound I still ended up with b&w!! But anyway there are more brands to go, like harbreth kiplisch wilson benesch and many more. But 1e on my list will be the new 804s. I have to say if they sound the same as the old 804 I have to give it a good think, well maybe if they also offer a discounted old 804 the thinking will be made easier :W

I hope I can found a good dealer here.

[miner]

I hope I can found a good dealer here.[/QUOTE]

Where are you located?

[Holland]

Iam located in burlington, MA (USA). I already checked the dealers list and found a couple of dealers around here, now see if there good dealers

I also would like to have a dealer which also has bryston or parasound so I can try them out with those amps. I learned it makes a world of difference with which equipment you try the speakers out.

[RebelMan]

Thanks for the help, how does time coherence play out music/sound wise?

Time coherence is significant in that the impression of music is an integrated whole rather than made up of separate parts. Analogous to this would be the difference between listening to individual instruments and a whole orchestra.

I don't like calling B&W speakers analytical. They can be very revealing which can be misconstrued as analytical but consider the source driving them. Some pre/pow amplifiers can make the B&W's sound analytical while others will not. The same could be said of a person "trying" to drive a high performance sports car versus someone that really knows how. The car will only handle as well as the driver behind it.

[Holland]

I agree with you that you should always look at the whole system, an amp can make a speaker sound analytical, but on the other hand in my opion an amp should just let music thru and shouldn't ad anything which isn't there. Or do you mean an amp (or cd player) can take away some of the music itself?

I know terms like analytical are a bit subjective, and I always try to be carefull with them. What I was trying to say is that let everything hear, which is good but my biggest gripe was that they didn't convay the music as an whole, they didn't involve me enough as I would like not emotional enough. But then again this could have been amp related. Thats why I want to hear them with like bryston since a lot of people are quite found of this combination. Also I once heard the 800's with classe (not even the most powerfull) which sounded amazing.