New B&W fan, need help in improving the system 604, Yamaha AZ1, Denon 3800

[muazzam]

Hi,

I am new to the HiFi world and struggling to come to peace with my sound system ...

I am using Denon DVD-3800, Yamaha DSP-AZ1 Amplifier to drive B&W 600 series 5 speakers set + SW (front Speakers are 604). Movies sound very good and surround effects are great too. However, music is not that clear and despite trying various settings doesnt quite cut it. I had plans to upgrade the main speakers to B&W 704 or B&W 805S. However, the dealer has advised me that Yamaha DSP-AZ1 doesn not have enough power to smoothly drive those units. Infact, to my surprise he advised to consider smaller set of speakers (B&W 602) !!!

I have a few questions,
1. Is Yamaha the "totally" wrong choice for the music listeneres to start with ? or I can still manage a good respectable sound using this Amp ? ( I dont have enough fund right now to jump to another big Amp).
2. Any suggestions of changing of the current Speakers 604 to either 805S or 602 ?
3. Any other ideas of improving this particular system performance ?

Appreciate any helpful feedback from you ..

thanx
Muazzam

[Music4Life]

Owning a Yamara receiver for several years now, I must admit that their 6.1 or the 7.1 channel amplifier are good for movies (especially DSP-AZ1) they are good because of their "effects technology". Their amp however are not that musical. The emphasis of their amps are movies and it's effects. I suggest you have to add a dedicated 2 channel amplifier to your system to fully enjoy your music. DSP AZ1 (160 wpc-stereo) has just enough power to drive the 704's but not with authority.

[csuzor]

I would say that the sound quality is 55% speaker, 25% amp, 15% source, 5% cables, and that is how you should spend your money (Everyone will argue with those numbers, but this is probably the average of opinions) (CDs or other software is additional). Image is probably 70% screen (or projector + screen), 25% source, 5% cables, but I am not qualified to explain that.

These numbers breakdown when talking of very high end gear, but that is probably not your concern at all (not mine).

Calculate your FINAL budget (within the time-frame that you want to wait), and then choose your next upgrade relative to that budget and the ratio of that component.

The DSP-AZ1 is a reasonable amp, 200yamahaWatts (probably less than 75seriousgearWatts), and that will drive the 704 or 703 well enough (until you are ready to upgade again). Coming from 604, I would recommend the 703, or 804, or a good sub (700 or 750) + 704. You'll need a sub with the others too, but it isn't as urgent. I would not recommend the 805 or 705 or 602, a sub has too much to do to make up the bass component, it doesn't sound right for music... they really need a sub each! (they're ok for HT)

Then, plan to upgrade the amp later to get the maximum from any of these speakers.

good luck

[george_k]

I would say that the sound quality is 55% speaker, 25% amp, 15% source, 5% cables, and that is how you should spend your money (Everyone will argue with those numbers, but this is probably the average of opinions)

What about room acoustics?

[mike c]

I say get the speakers you want: 80x
If it doesn't sound better than your 60x series ... get an external amp to mate with your yammy.

[csuzor]

What about room acoustics?

yes, room acoustics is a big part of the equation. I move my audio system around the house depending on the kids and the wife and the season and my work, and each time it sounds very different. Not easy to treat a room correctly.

[muazzam]

Hi,

Thanx for the answers and my apologies on not responding earlier as I was away. I troubleshooted the system and upgraded the speaker cables to Moving Air Abbey Monitor Cables plus Wireworld Polaris interconnects, and the sound is sooooo much better now. Sound is so much more open and clear and does not sound harsh on high volume anymore.

Now I am contemplating getting a dedicated CD Player. First choice being Cambridge Audio Azur 640 and second option Marantz 5001. I will see if my budget allows later, I may want to add a Bryston 3B-ST as Power Amplifier while use Yamaha AZ1 as Pre-amplifier. What do you think about that setup ?

I agree with the idea that unless I upgrade to 80X series, there will be no significant gain from 60X to 70X ...

Do let me know your thoughts.

Thanx once again.
Muazzam

[csuzor]

I agree with the idea that unless I upgrade to 80X series, there will be no significant gain from 60X to 70X ...

I don't think anyone said that, and it's not true. it's your decision about which upgrade will provide the biggest advantage for the price.

[Kobus]

Your speakers are your weakest point for now. You must sort them out first. Get 80x and you will be fine for a good while.

Kobus

[lvhung]

600 series is bad choice
Go for 700 series instead

[Clepto]

600 series is bad choice
Go for 700 series instead

Don't believe the hype, since you're doing both HT and Music, the 604's are probably a good fit. Your best bet would be to see if you could try out a serious 2 channel amp to drive the 604's, and see how you feel about that. Something along the caliber of 200wpc from Rotel or some such. A 2 channel amp for stereo listening will also be useful if you decide you do want to upgrade from your 604s to another speaker.

[Jesse111]

I'm pure 2 channel. Personally I would move into the 800 series as soon as possible. You will get the biggest difference in sound from speaker change over anything else. 160 watt's per channel is plenty of power to push 805S's. You will certainly want to improve the quality of your amplification at some point, but my first move would be the 805S.

[PewterTA]

I've got the 604 with a 1098/1095 playing off a CA 640v2. I've gotten people that have the 70x series that say their system doesn't sound as good as mine. Now this isn't the "norm" for the 600 series. But with decent equipment and room accoustics and cables. The 600 series can sound extremely good. To me, the 700 series aren't that much better to justify the price difference. The 800s, well that's another story and I can't wait to get my hands on them when I can afford it.

Right now (I feel) your Yamaha is your weakest link (I know I had Yamaha -- still have it infact) with a second place awarded to your Denon DVD player. I don't think either of those are terribly "musical," not saying they aren't good, they ARE!!! Just not the best for music, much better for HT. When I changed from Yamaha over to the Rotel/CA 640v2 CDP, it made a HUGE difference (also adding CAT cables). Clarity, imagining, and listenability (is that a word - lack of fatigue in listening) has all gone major steps up over the Yamaha I had with my 604s.

So don't let everyone tell you that the 604s aren't good. I think they are a HECK of a speaker for their price...but of course there's better out there and there's worse.