Ayre + 802D = AMAZING!

[tboooe]

Based on some posts by jkalman, I decided to give the ayre k-1xe preamp and V-1xe amp a listening to with the 802D. Actually, my dealer first hooked them up to some Magenpans. Very clear sound but a little bright and not much bass. To their defense, the Maggies were new.

I was totally blown away with the ayre + 802d combo. The realism was amazing! We put in Willie Nelson's Stardust cd and I could not believe the holographic imaging of his voice. I could practically see Willie and his braids singing in the room. His voice had a palpable feel to it that was 3-dimensional. It was like his voice was this 3-dimensional entity floating in front of me. The music was sooo smooooth and everything had an airy, clean presentation. i also tried the 802d with the cheaper k-5xe preamp. though very good, it just did not have the same realism and holographic presentation of the k-1xe. Is the k-1xe worth more than twice the k-5xe? I am not sure. This demo made me realize the deficiencies in my current system. By comparison, my system is flat and 1 dimensional. Of course, the 802d system is more than 3 times my current setup.

My plan is to upgrade my preamp, speakers, then amp in that order over the next 12 months.

I have never heard of ayre before recently and must say that i am impressed!jkalman, you were right about how great ayre sounds. I will be auditioning the Plinius preamp and amp combo soon as I hear that Ayre and Plinius are pretty similar in their warm, tubelike sound.

[audioqueso]

Wow. Good stuff. You're using Parasound right now, right? Have you listened to your speakers with Classe or Bryston before? If you have, would you say it blows them out of the water as well?

[tboooe]

audioqueso:

Yes, I am using Parasound now (A21 amp). I have also heard classe with my 804S and the 802D. the classe is very smooooooth. i would say that it is a little leaner than the ayre. i dont want to say bright but it does not have the slight warmth and weight that the ayre has. I heard Bryston at my dealer a few months back. Again, great sound but the realism and holographic imaging of the sound was just not there. Compared to the 802D + ayre combo, these other setups sounded thin to me.

man, i know what i have to aspire to...

[RebelMan]

tboooe, I think a list of supporting equipment, like source players, pre-amplifiers, and so forth, and a description of the room, and its associated characteristics, used in each evaluation would be warranted here.

[JKalman]

Based on some posts by jkalman, I decided to give the ayre k-1xe preamp and V-1xe amp a listening to with the 802D. Actually, my dealer first hooked them up to some Magenpans. Very clear sound but a little bright and not much bass. To their defense, the Maggies were new.

I was totally blown away with the ayre + 802d combo. The realism was amazing! We put in Willie Nelson's Stardust cd and I could not believe the holographic imaging of his voice. I could practically see Willie and his braids singing in the room. His voice had a palpable feel to it that was 3-dimensional. It was like his voice was this 3-dimensional entity floating in front of me. The music was sooo smooooth and everything had an airy, clean presentation. i also tried the 802d with the cheaper k-5xe preamp. though very good, it just did not have the same realism and holographic presentation of the k-1xe. Is the k-1xe worth more than twice the k-5xe? I am not sure. This demo made me realize the deficiencies in my current system. By comparison, my system is flat and 1 dimensional. Of course, the 802d system is more than 3 times my current setup.

My plan is to upgrade my preamp, speakers, then amp in that order over the next 12 months.

I have never heard of ayre before recently and must say that i am impressed!jkalman, you were right about how great ayre sounds. I will be auditioning the Plinius preamp and amp combo soon as I hear that Ayre and Plinius are pretty similar in their warm, tubelike sound.

I tell no lie! After first hearing a full Ayre system my whole life changed. I was so excited I had to post it all over these fora. I hope everyone tries out the Ayre C-5xe with the V-1xe and K-1xe so they don't go wasting their money on anything else. I knew after hearing those components all hooked together that I could buy those specific pieces of equipment and be happy for the next 10-15 years. I realize most people probably don't believe me, but it is worth it to me to spit out how great they sound in every post I make just for that one person who decides to give them a listen.

They won HiFi Choices amp/preamp of the year award in the highest price range category, but I admit, awards don't mean a whole lot to me anymore since a lot of stuff out there wins awards and I don't think anything I have heard that costs even 3 times the price sounds anywhere near as good.

I'm currently saving up for the V-1xe, which I should be able to buy next month, and then 2-3 months later I'll have the k-1xe and will be happy with my system for years to come.

[JKalman]

Wow. Good stuff. You're using Parasound right now, right? Have you listened to your speakers with Classe or Bryston before? If you have, would you say it blows them out of the water as well?

I own Brystons and I demo-ed Classe. I think the Ayre blows them both out of the water in and around the $9k price range, which is why I am buying them instead of Bryston or Classe. I only get 200 watts/ch with the Ayre V-1xe, but it is such high quality amplification. They are coming out with 300 watt/ch monoblocks for $15k, but for my uses I won't need more than the 200 watts/ch. As most people know, you don't get much dB gain anyway for each doubling of watts (3 dB). It is the quality of the interior build that matters more and Ayre excels at this kind of quality. I get a limit of 106 dB at my sitting position with the Ayre V-1xe, which is more than I get with my Bryston 9B SST currently, so it is more than enough for me. I might eventually get another V-1xe and bi-amp each 802D with those. Or maybe move the V-1xe to the surround channels and buy a pair of the monoblocks, which are already getting some major pre-release buzz.

I've never seen any components image, detail, dimension, create lifelike representations of the performers, like Ayre... That includes B&W 800Ds being run with $29k Halcros!

[JKalman]

I was totally blown away with the ayre + 802d combo. The realism was amazing! We put in Willie Nelson's Stardust cd and I could not believe the holographic imaging of his voice. I could practically see Willie and his braids singing in the room. His voice had a palpable feel to it that was 3-dimensional. It was like his voice was this 3-dimensional entity floating in front of me. The music was sooo smooooth and everything had an airy, clean presentation. i also tried the 802d with the cheaper k-5xe preamp. though very good, it just did not have the same realism and holographic presentation of the k-1xe. Is the k-1xe worth more than twice the k-5xe? I am not sure. This demo made me realize the deficiencies in my current system. By comparison, my system is flat and 1 dimensional. Of course, the 802d system is more than 3 times my current setup.

BTW, I am super glad to hear someone has had the same experience with the Ayre components hooked up to the 802Ds as I had with them hooked up to the Wilson Watt Puppy 7 speakers. I was worried that I might have to sell my 802Ds and change to Wilsons, but the experience you stated above sounds similar to my experience with the Ayre gear on the Wilson speakers. This is extremely good news to me, I will be saving A LOT of cash if this is the case. Yay!!! ;x(

[RebelMan]

My plan is to upgrade my preamp, speakers, then amp in that order over the next 12 months.

Perhaps in your pursuit to find the perfect pre-amplifier you should give the Audio Research Reference 3 a try. The previous Reference 2 was considered the best by any measure. It is pricey, but considering the direction you are heading it may be of little significance to you. Good luck.

[JKalman]

People should know that I have RebelMan on ignore because of some inapproproate behavior towards me in other posts. So I don't read what he posts and, thus, don't contest things he posts. I only see what he posts when people quote him.

<LEX SAYS, again what is going on here? Rebelman said nothing to incite this behavior here. It is up to moderators to decide what is appropriate at HTGuide, and only posts at HTGuide are of relevence. Future occurences of this statement will be deleted by admins. The fact is, he wasn't even talking TO YOU at this point.>

[JKalman]

A friend E-mailed me and told me that RebelMan was attacking me in another post by misquoting me and stretching statistics beyond any reasonable limit for his personal gain in arguing against things I posted and in putting down the company Ayre. I therefore feel posting this is more than justified. I am glad I have friends who are aware of the problems I have had with this guy in previous posts... Apparently, as my friend stated in the E-mail, even though he has never listened to Ayre, he has decided Classe's similarly priced equipment is better because he decides it is, despite the fact that the professional audio publishing community disagrees in their magazines from their direct listening experiences.

<Lex says, again, this is over the top, nothing was said to really justify this and as pointed out, it is duplicative, but more than that, it is up to moderators to decide what is contentious behavior, not the member base...>

[stewfoo]

The same "professional audio publishing community" that sells ad space and describes Definitive Technology speakers as "Absolute sonic purity...crisp and client... natural and refined"???? I am not arguing against your asessment of ayre vs. Classe. That is a subjective judgement. I just think that you need to understand the politics (i.e. purchasers of ad space or other financial incentives) that affect reviews in magazines and not give them so much credit. Its like looking at Muscle Media 2000 (if that magazine still exists) They would have you believe that EAS is the best supplement company hands down.... Maybe it is because they own the magazine. Same with Joe Weider's magazines..... Know what I mean??

[ThomasW]

It's unfortunate that Ayre doesn't get much respect in the US, while in Europe and the Far East it's a hit. I'm sure some of that will change once John Atkinson gets his hands on a pair of the new little monoblocks, he was salivating over the demo units at the CES.

As far as the Ayre nay sayers are concerned, well, it's just their loss.

(disclaimer Charlie Hansen has been a personal friend for more than 25yrs. And yes I have 3 pieces of Ayre gear... )

[tboooe]

rebelman, you are right. my listening experiences were done at different times under different conditions. by no means was this a scientific or controlled test. my statements were just "seat of my pants" initial thoughts only after about 1 hour of listening.

i plan on doing some more in depth auditions with classe, balanced audio technology, plinius.

as for the audio research reference preamp, indeed very pricey...even by my crazy standards. i do have some limits

[JKalman]

The same "professional audio publishing community" that sells ad space and describes Definitive Technology speakers as "Absolute sonic purity...crisp and client... natural and refined"???? I am not arguing against your asessment of ayre vs. Classe. That is a subjective judgement. I just think that you need to understand the politics (i.e. purchasers of ad space or other financial incentives) that affect reviews in magazines and not give them so much credit. Its like looking at Muscle Media 2000 (if that magazine still exists) They would have you believe that EAS is the best supplement company hands down.... Maybe it is because they own the magazine. Same with Joe Weider's magazines..... Know what I mean??

Classe probably gives much more money to the magazines than Ayre, multiples I bet since this includes the B&W Group. I don't think the donations make that much of a difference, just like I don't believe that the US government was involved with 9/11. I am not a huge conspiracy theory fan, but I did love watching the X-Files. If they allowed obvious fixed ratings based on advertising alone, they wouldn't stay in business because of people like you posting your views on fora like this, which is a great thing and keeps that kind of problem from being pervasive.

Unfortunately, I haven't demo-ed the equipment you are referring to above to agree or disagree with you on the merit of their respective ratings. I will admit that ratings seem to be fairly tilted in the positive direction, but I noticed that if you read carefully you can pick out the negatives, which are sugar coated, but none the less, still there. This issue, while annoying, has lead me to one of the magazines I appreciate more than most of the others on the market at this time. Hi-Fi Choice magazine has a percentage based rating system and they actually go below 80% fairly often.

One thing to keep in mind with some of these magazines, at least one thing I keep in mind, is that they do deal with the higher end of higher end equipment. It reminds me of ratings at the Olympics. Everyone gets a 9, but is it a 9.88876, 9.93444, or a 9.99999. That is part of the dilema when you deal with equipment at this level I think.

[JKalman]

rebelman, you are right. my listening experiences were done at different times under different conditions. by no means was this a scientific or controlled test. my statements were just "seat of my pants" initial thoughts only after about 1 hour of listening.

i plan on doing some more in depth auditions with classe, balanced audio technology, plinius.

as for the audio research reference preamp, indeed very pricey...even by my crazy standards. i do have some limits

It is only $3k more than the K-1xe. Though at these price levels that is a large percentage difference.

[stewfoo]

Classe probably gives much more money to the magazines than Ayre, multiples I bet since this includes the B&W Group. I don't think the donations make that much of a difference, just like I don't believe that the US government was involved with 9/11. I am not a huge conspiracy theory fan, but I did love watching the X-Files. If they allowed obvious fixed ratings based on advertising alone, they wouldn't stay in business because of people like you posting your views on fora like this, which is a great thing and keeps that kind of problem from being pervasive.

Unfortunately, I haven't demo-ed the equipment you are referring to above to agree or disagree with you on the merit of their respective ratings. I will admit that ratings seem to be fairly tilted in the positive direction, but I noticed that if you read carefully you can pick out the negatives, which are sugar coated, but none the less, still there. This issue, while annoying, has lead me to one of the magazines I appreciate more than most of the others on the market at this time. Hi-Fi Choice magazine has a percentage based rating system and they actually go below 80% fairly often.

One thing to keep in mind with some of these magazines, at least one thing I keep in mind, is that they do deal with the higher end of higher end equipment. It reminds me of ratings at the Olympics. Everyone gets a 9, but is it a 9.88876, 9.93444, or a 9.99999. That is part of the dilema when you deal with equipment at this level I think.

First, I dont base my judgement of Classe or B&W on reviews.
Second, It is not conspiracy theory it is fact. Having friends that work for a major holding company (which owns a specific audio company) that heavily advertises in exchange for favorable reviews, I know how the system works. It is just naive to deny it.
Third, as much as we would like to believe otherwise.. Rebelman's support for Classe, Or DrJ's support of NuForce isnt gonna make or break them. We are a few very small group of fanatics that obsess on minutia. We are addicts. Most others who buy hi-end gear, I would bet, dont post or read this or any other forum. They just buy the stuff and enjoy it.

[JKalman]

tboooe,

You should demo some Conrad Johnson gear. It is in the same relative price range and is comparable, though, I didn't think it sounded as holographic, and had tested them both on the Wilson Watt Pupp 7 speakers.

I don't know what it is that they are doing right at Ayre, but like I said, I haven't heard music sound as holographic as it does through their equipment, including gear that is much more expensive, like the Classe Omnicrons and the Halcros. From the Delta series to the low end of the Omega series, I found the Classe gear to sound flat in comparison. This was upsetting to me because my main dealer does not carry Ayre, so I have to take a huge hit in my wallet. I can't get the discounts I would usually get if I bought something produced by the B&W group from my usual dealer, who has been generous with me in the past. I have to go to a new dealer who isn't as willing to bargain, or to bargain as generously.

Like you said about your experience with both, they seemed thin in comparison. Of course, that is, if by "thin" you mean not as dimensional. The difference in sound between the two makes the loss in money a worthwhile sacrifice IMO, so I will have to grin and bear it. I do think the Classe, Conrad Johnson and BAT gear I demo-ed sounded excellent, but none of them made me feel like the artist was living and breathing in front of me, it is an uncanny experience that I can't go back from now that I have experienced it. Most everything else now seems like a postcard to its diorama.

[RebelMan]

People should know that I have RebelMan on ignore because of some inapproproate behavior towards me in other posts. So I don't read what he posts and, thus, don't contest things he posts. I only see what he posts when people quote him.

This is a duplicate post. See http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...011#post231011

[RebelMan]

A friend E-mailed me and told me that RebelMan was attacking me in another post by misquoting me and stretching statistics beyond any reasonable limit for his personal gain in arguing against things I posted and in putting down the company Ayre. I therefore feel posting this is more than justified. I am glad I have friends who are aware of the problems I have had with this guy in previous posts...

Another dup.

[ThomasW]

Some people are really really close to losing their HT-Guide posting privileges.

The moderators and admins will be discussing the behavior on this thread. Decisions regarding member's posting status will be made tomorrow.