Going from N805 to 804S or 803S, help

[Ash]

Hi everyone, I'm planning on my next upgrade and I need you invaluable insights

I'm thinking of going from the N805 to 804S or maybe if I'm lucky 803S.

Will I be getting a significant improvement in sound if I go with the 804 over my current N805 with ASW675 for stereo listening.

More importantly, I have two ASW675, one for HT and the other for stereo, if I go for the 804S do I need to keep this subwoofer to help the 804S in the lows, or should I sell one to get needed money for the 804S (bare in mind that I can't buy a new subfor stereo for a loooong time).

Furthermore, I'm also considering the 803S, but I noticed that it only (specs wise) gives a slight improvement in the lower freqs i.e. 35Hz compared to 804S 38Hz. Did anyone compare the two, is there a significant difference??
Cause the 803 costs significantly more and I'm on a tight budget but I really want to make a purchase that will keep me satisfied for a very long time.

Any advise will be highly appreciated as I will depend on you experiences to make this decision, as I can only get those speakers on order and can't listen to them.

Thank you

[GregLett]

I'll throw a curve at you. Go have a listen to the XT4.

[Eliav]

Hi everyone, I'm planning on my next upgrade and I need you invaluable insights

I'm thinking of going from the N805 to 804S or maybe if I'm lucky 803S.

Will I be getting a significant improvement in sound if I go with the 804 over my current N805 with ASW675 for stereo listening.

More importantly, I have two ASW675, one for HT and the other for stereo, if I go for the 804S do I need to keep this subwoofer to help the 804S in the lows, or should I sell one to get needed money for the 804S (bare in mind that I can't buy a new subfor stereo for a loooong time).

Furthermore, I'm also considering the 803S, but I noticed that it only (specs wise) gives a slight improvement in the lower freqs i.e. 35Hz compared to 804S 38Hz. Did anyone compare the two, is there a significant difference??
Cause the 803 costs significantly more and I'm on a tight budget but I really want to make a purchase that will keep me satisfied for a very long time.

Any advise will be highly appreciated as I will depend on you experiences to make this decision, as I can only get those speakers on order and can't listen to them.

Thank you

Hi
The difference is not only the low ends. The 803s is a bigger and heavier speaker, it sings accordingly. IMO It is more open and has more presence. My best advice to you is to audition both and make up your mind based on what YOU hear, you may not find the difference that significant. Keep in mind that if you go with the 803 - you will have to go for a more powerful amplifier in order to really get the most of the speaker, if your budget is limited this step -up may take you way off what you initially planned to spend , but hey, is it not actually what happen to most of us....
Cheers
Eliav

[RebelMan]

Ash, the difference between the N805 and the 804S is night and day, most notably do to the FST driver and the 1st order crossover network. To me the (newer and better) 805S was acoustically "shut in" (boxy) and rather blatant about it. So much so, I seriously considered the Paradigm S2 in lieu of it, which for all accounts, stood up to the 805S in every way possible.

As far as HT goes, the 805Ss and its brothers the HTM4S and SCMSs are perfectly suited to do the job. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said when playing music. If music is your "thang" then the 804S's will not disappoint.

Honestly, I don't feel that the 803S's are "significantly" better than the 804S's. Better yes, but for someone with a tight budget, you would be better served by the 804S's.

I am a bit of a musical purist and don't really care for subwoofers in two channel setups UNLESS it is meticulously done. Subwoofers = distortion and too much distortion, as you know, is not a pleasant thing. If you choose to integrate your subwoofers you really should use both to fill in the lowest musical octaves.

I believe the 804S's with subwoofers would make a good long term solution for you. However, if you are like me (a purist) then shoot for the 803D's for the long run. I know they cost twice the price of the 804S's but to me they seem to strike the best balance between price and performance over the entire 800 series line. Only if the 803D's are virtually impossible to obtain would I suggest you consider the 803S's.

[ChrissB]

Hi Ash,
if you notice on B&W site it's written:
"The 804S is a more compact version of the 803S. Exactly the same midrange and tweeter configuration is used, but bass is supplied by two smaller 165mm (6.5 in) diameter Rohacell® cone drivers".
Haven't audition 803s, but I recently bought 804s and I'm amazed with them.
You also have to consider room dimensions.
IMO when you are to spend so much money you must take the trouble and have an audition to both of them as they will stay with you for a long time...

[grit]

I'll ditto what RebelMan said. 803s does sound better (based on my a/b testing of them), but it'd not be where I'd choose to sink the extra money unless I had a larger room and really needed to fill the area with sound. I'd lose one sub and use the other ONLY for HT. Take the extra and put it toward your center channel.

[Ash]

Thanks a lot for all of your replies

RebelMan,

Thanks for the detailed reply. You convinced me to loose the N805, actually not loose, but demote them to the role of surrounds (although they have served me well).

I think I'm also a purist, and was struggling to make the 805s work for stereo, finally I gave up on them, that’s why I'm considering the 804S and going the floor stand direction, in the hope of getting a full bodied sound.

I agree with you that subs add distortion in some sense (and I want to loose the subs for stereo listening, if possible), however, I want the new speakers to produce very good low-end sound that has substance and weight to it, close to the substance of say the ASW675 but not necessarily as deep. If the 804 can produce this kind of sound, I think I can be happy with them, and I could use the extra money to help in buying a matching HTM3 center to replace the HTM2 I have.

However, if the 804 lacks this substance, this may trigger upgradetitis and I will loose more money trying to replace them in two years time. In this situation, 803 would be a better decision. So do you think that the 804 has this substance?? or would the 803 be closer to the description I explained??

I would love to get the 803D, but I think that right now they are impossible to get, even the 803S would be a bit tough to buy. But upgradetitis is at its max right now, so you never know.

Eliav,

Looking at the specs it seems that the 804S and 803S almost have the same amplification needs. This is actually letting me consider getting the 803S, because I know that I would be spending the same on amplification, even if I got the 804S.

Grit,

Your suggestion makes a lot of sense, and it is making me consider getting a matching centre channel, instead of going with the 803S. But again, I want to make a purchase that will last, so if 804 is a bit weak in bass, I might not be satisfied with it.

Thanks a lot for all of your input guys, I wish that I can audition those speakers before I buy them, however, the dealer will only order them for me and he doesn't have them in stock. Therefore, your descriptions are very important to me, as I'm basing my decision on your experiences. Any additional comparison of 803 against 804 will be highly appreciated.

Thanks again

[RebelMan]

The 803S's will deliver a fuller dynamic sound than the 804S's will. Value wise the 804S's are still the better buy. If, however, you are willing to stretch your buget then the 803S's would make a better investment, with one caveat. Make sure there is plenty of authority in the amplifier that will be driving them. I have noticed some pre/pow amplifiers make far better use of B&W's woofers than do others.

For instance, I thought the 802D's sounded a bit too bassy when driven with a Bryston 1.7 SP pre/pro and 68-SST power amplifier. It was far less evident when the same speakers were driven with the Rotel RSP-1098 and RMB-1095. (Analog bypass mode in both cases.) I suspect that the same will hold true with the amplifiers you choose to pair with the 803S's. I noticed that when I drive my 803S's with a Rotel RB-1080 they don't start to sing until I push the amplifier to about 55 - 66 on the dial (and depending on source material too of course). Which is one of the reasons why I am looking for other amplifier options.

Really, the 803D's have much better bass extension then either of the 804S's and 803S's do. But given that, if it weren't for the slight edgyness I detect with my 803S's top end I wouldn't have any reason to upgrade.

[RobP]

Hello Ash,
I went through the same situation as you are about a year ago, I had the N805's and was wanting something a little more. So of course I was looking at the N804's. The difference was night and day between the two, so I decided to pull the trigger, that was until I heard the N803, it had a larger presentation than the N804 and sounded better to me. They did cost more but I knew that if I chose the N804, in a year I would be trying to upgrade to the N803. Am I glad that I did after a year has gone by? :twisted: Hell yes. They still amaze me everytime I listen to them. :T


Now, on the other option of the 803D ;x( , Thats another story, if I talk about it or think about it too much I may find myself at my dealers door in the morning, awaiting his arrival to order a pair. And I think that my wife would notice ANOTHER pair of speakers. :B

[audioqueso]

I'm going to throw my worthless 2 cents here and say that I'm going to continue to use my 805s, get the center, add some surrounds, and leave it that way until I jump straight to the 802+. At that point I'll just throw the 805s as more surrounds. lol Why try my way? lol

Honestly, I love my 805s combined with my Velodyne. I've heard the 804s plenty of times and they do have a smoother more balance full range response than my combo with mysuc, but to me I am very pleased with the 805s and really don't care for 'just' stepping up. They still make me smile stupid when I listen to music and movies are awesome with them. So even though the 804/803 will be better, I know I won't be completely satisfied. When I upgrade my fronts, it will be to the jump that I've always wanted, 800-802 range.

[grit]

I'm going to throw my worthless 2 cents here and say that I'm going to continue to use my 805s, get the center, add some surrounds, and leave it that way until I jump straight to the 802+. At that point I'll just throw the 805s as more surrounds. lol Why try my way? lol

Honestly, I love my 805s combined with my Velodyne. I've heard the 804s plenty of times and they do have a smoother more balance full range response than my combo with mysuc, but to me I am very pleased with the 805s and really don't care for 'just' stepping up. They still make me smile stupid when I listen to music and movies are awesome with them. So even though the 804/803 will be better, I know I won't be completely satisfied. When I upgrade my fronts, it will be to the jump that I've always wanted, 800-802 range.

I'm almost in that category of thinking. I think I'll step from the 804S to the 802S one day (or perhaps 803D).

[dyazdani]

From audioqueso

I'm going to continue to use my 805s, get the center, add some surrounds, and leave it that way until I jump straight to the 802+. At that point I'll just throw the 805s as more surrounds.

FWIW, that line of thinking gets my vote. I should say that I haven't heard the new 804S (have heard the 803S), only the "old" N804 and felt that they were not worth the money. You will be better off saving up and getting what you REALLY want.

[RebelMan]

If price wasn't a major factor in most AV decisions it stands to reason that most people would opt for the top of the line. Last I checked the world wasn't utopia.

[Gump]

Bass seems to be extremely important to you and I would hate to see you jump in and buy the 804's without being able to hear them and make sure they meet your needs. It's too bad you are not able to demo them. The bass in the 804's may be pretty good but I wouldn't describe it as prodigious. With some material even my 803D's need a little help from my Rel sub.

Good luck.

[audioqueso]

If price wasn't a major factor in most AV decisions it stands to reason that most people would opt for the top of the line. Last I checked the world wasn't utopia.

What?!? My world is a utopia... your's isn't? :B jk

[Ash]

If it was Utopia, I would have two Bule Snails singing for me right now, however, life isn't that sweet, yet!

However, the more I read your posts, the more I become convinced that the 804s will be insufficeint to be a long term purchase. I think that I'm swaying to the 803 direction as it seems like a purchase that will last more than if I got the 804.

802 is my dream speaker, however, the 802D is just too expensive, and it seems that it will be a very long time before I can buy this speaker, 8 years away.

My dealer has a pair of N802 (demo peice), however, he is a very stubborn guy and will only offer them for 20% off their original, I think he quoted (if I'm not wrong) $7000. I want to try to convince him to reduce the price alot more, to reach something that is comparible to the price of a new pair of 803S. This will be my mission for the next few days.

What would be a fair price for a pair of discontinued DEMO pair of N802. I think that this will be a better buy than the 803S. Damn, I'm becoming exited, what do you think guys??? What price should I aim for?

[RebelMan]

Where are you from Ash? Here in the states the N802's went for $8000.00 MSRP. I wouldn't consider buying a demo pair for less than 30% off ($5600.00) and that is very reasonable, especially for the older series.

[Ash]

Thanks again for the replay RebelMAn

I'm from Italy. I doubt that I can get it down to that price, however, lets say I was able to get close to the price of say the 803S. Would it be a better buy, in the sense that it would sound better for the money paid. Or would the 803S be a better buy as it is newer, made of newer material, has better crossover.

How would the 803S compare to the N802?

I guess I will put the 803S as my target for now, however, lets say I was able to get the N802 for a reasonable price, should I go for it over the 803S?

[RebelMan]

The 803S is a better N803 in every way imagineable, not so compared to the N802. While the 803S has improved it still does not measure up to the N802. Many would say that the N802 still edges out the 803D and I believe in some ways it does.

If you can get the N802's within 10% of the retail price of the 803S's then I would say that is a pretty good deal. That would be about ~$6100.00 in US dollars for a pair in MINT condition.

Other things to consider are room acoustics and domestic contraints. A poorly configured room can make even the best speakers sound shotty and compared to the 803's the 802's are pretty big.

[Ash]

I will consider the average of the prices you gave me i.e $5,850 would be the price to aim for. I will start negotiating with the dealer today and hoprefully he would accept.

I mean I already know that he had those speakers on demo for more that a year! I dunno, but he should accept, cause these have been used significantly, I guess!!