ASW800 questions

[miner]

I currently have a pair of N804 pushed by Rotel RC-1070, RB-1070 and my source is a Rotel RCC-1055. I listen to 2 channel classic rock & blues. I was given the opportunity to purchase the B&W ASW800 new-in-the-box for $1400 in a nice natural cherry finish to match the N804. Those who have this sub:

1) Are you happy with the performance

2) Best way to hook up with my set-up

3) crossover setting

4) Any other sub I should consider for $1400

Thanks gang in advance.

[miner]

Anyone? Has Katrina evacuated the forum?

[junior77blue]

That sounds like one hell of a deal! How much did they retail for new?

Sorry, I've never actually listened to one so can't help you make your decision.

[miner]

They retail for $2200. That's 36% off. I was told the ASW800 is now officially discontinued.

[Parsonsk]

nice!
I'd be all over it like a fat kid on a smartie!!!
I hesitated at some 804's before xmas last year and poof they were gone.

As of today i purchased my new set of 804's, rb-1080, rc-1070 and rt-1080 (tuner)
it was a toss up between upgrading the speakers or getting new cables and the 1055 cd player.

I would go for it, i'm not sure how much subs are changing from year to year but at that price..hell i'll buy it if you don't

[bigburner]

miner, I currently have a pair of CDM9NT's (3-way floorstanders) driven by a Rotel RC-1070 preamp, an RB-1080 amp, and my source is a Rotel RCD-855. I listen to 2 channel music, including rock & blues. A few months ago I purchased an ASW750 sub which has a 1000 watt amp and a 12-inch driver, just like the ASW800.

1) I am very happy with the performance. The ASW750 has given me more satisfaction than any other upgrade so far.

2) I followed B&W's instructions in the ASW750 Owner's Manual (you can download the Owner's Manual for the ASW800 from B&W's web site; I have a copy on my laptop for reference purposes). B&W's advice is to wire the sub so that the output of the pre-amp goes to the input of the sub (via RCA cables), and the output of the sub goes to the input of the amp (also via RCA cables).

3) The high-pass filter on the 750 and 800 subs is pre-set at 80 Hz. This means that the speakers only receive 80 Hz and above, allowing them to be played at much higher volume without fear of distortion. This is important for me because occasionally I do play music at high volume. I've taken B&W's advice and set the low-pass filter on the sub to 80 Hz so that it only plays 80 Hz and below. I have found that this setting results in the best stereo image and an absence of boominess because the sub isn't duplicating frequencies being played on the speakers.

4) I can't comment on $1400 subs because I haven't auditioned any.

It's a great upgrade if you like listening to music at volume. Go for it!

[miner]

Thanks for all of your comments & suggestions. I should have it by this weekend.

[gunny]

miner,

Maybe I'm one of the few that have an ASW-800. Over the past year-and-one-half that I've had mine, rarely have I seen it discussed or evaluated. It seems to have been relegated to some "weak sister" status, possibly because at the same time of its debut, the ASW-850 came out with the same 1000 watt amp, but with a 15 inch speaker. The 850 was declared a monster, and everyone seemed to drool over it. I've seen also a lot of discussion about B&W subs not really being a good value, but most of that opinion appeared to be based on the pre-nautilus generation of subs (and mostly complaints about price, and not sound.) I can only say mine is more than enough for my current needs. In fact, the volume is set quite low, just so I don't have to hear everything in my family room rattle.

I too have 804S L&R, with an HTM-3 center. I truly think you will be pleased.

I have mine connected by a sub cable from a Parasound C2 controller to a Y splitter, then to the dual sub inputs.

Crossover around 80 seems to work pretty well with the 804s.

I've seen a lot of possitive remarks about SVS subs here, and on AVS forum.

[sikoniko]

I think the size of the asw-800 makes it worthy of interest. I have the 850 and it is good, but takes up too much space for my current room.

[miner]

another noob question

miner,

Maybe I'm one of the few that have an ASW-800. Over the past year-and-one-half that I've had mine, rarely have I seen it discussed or evaluated. It seems to have been relegated to some "weak sister" status, possibly because at the same time of its debut, the ASW-850 came out with the same 1000 watt amp, but with a 15 inch speaker. The 850 was declared a monster, and everyone seemed to drool over it. I've seen also a lot of discussion about B&W subs not really being a good value, but most of that opinion appeared to be based on the pre-nautilus generation of subs (and mostly complaints about price, and not sound.) I can only say mine is more than enough for my current needs. In fact, the volume is set quite low, just so I don't have to hear everything in my family room rattle.

I too have 804S L&R, with an HTM-3 center. I truly think you will be pleased.

I have mine connected by a sub cable from a Parasound C2 controller to a Y splitter, then to the dual sub inputs.

Crossover around 80 seems to work pretty well with the 804s.

I've seen a lot of possitive remarks about SVS subs here, and on AVS forum.

I finally picked up the ASW800 ($1400) and hooked it up to the Rotel RC-1070 pre with a pair of 25' sub cables. Now, my question is do I really need to line out back to the amp? I have my crossover set at 80 Hz and my N804 are getting full signal. I want to know the pluses and minuses before I go out and spend another $200 for sub cables (for the line out back to the amp - Rotel RB-1070). BTW, this is for 2 ch listening only. Thanks for all of your help guys.

[junior77blue]

Does the RC1070 have an adjustable crossover?

I would recommend for music to leave as a full signal and crossover the sub at a lower setting than 80Hz. You will have overlap, if you leave it a 80Hz. The 804 i'm guessing drop around 40-60Hz...

To use the Hi Pass crossover in the sub will only add noise to the system....this is where you want to keep the signal path as simple as possible.

[bigburner]

Now, my question is do I really need to line out back to the amp? I have my crossover set at 80 Hz and my N804 are getting full signal. I want to know the pluses and minuses before I go out and spend another $200 for sub cables (for the line out back to the amp - Rotel RB-1070). BTW, this is for 2 ch listening only. Thanks for all of your help guys.

I noticed 2 things when I had my speakers and sub wired the way that you have described. Firstly, the bass was boomier, presumably because my floorstanders were duplicating the frequencies being played by my sub. Secondly, my floorstanders were beginning to struggle when I turned the volume up to high levels, which I do when people come over to my place to party and dance.

If I didn't need to turn the volume up then I guess that I could live with the slight boominess if it wasn't too noticeable. Turning the volume down on the sub would probably be helpful. However, if you do listen at high volume, then I believe that the extra $200 will be well spent.

My sub's RCA cables are all 27 feet long, and I don't think that my sound suffers as a result. I originally trialled the set-up with 18 foot cables and the extra length made no difference. As for the argument that the crossover in the sub adds extra noise, I simply don't buy it. If anyone can make a good crossover, B&W can. They've been practicing for a few years now.

[miner]

I noticed 2 things when I had my speakers and sub wired the way that you have described. Firstly, the bass was boomier, presumably because my floorstanders were duplicating the frequencies being played by my sub. Secondly, my floorstanders were beginning to struggle when I turned the volume up to high levels, which I do when people come over to my place to party and dance.

If I didn't need to turn the volume up then I guess that I could live with the slight boominess if it wasn't too noticeable. Turning the volume down on the sub would probably be helpful. However, if you do listen at high volume, then I believe that the extra $200 will be well spent.

My sub's RCA cables are all 27 feet long, and I don't think that my sound suffers as a result. I originally trialled the set-up with 18 foot cables and the extra length made no difference. As for the argument that the crossover in the sub adds extra noise, I simply don't buy it. If anyone can make a good crossover, B&W can. They've been practicing for a few years now.

Bigburner,
What type of sub cables are you using and what crossover setting are you using on your sub? Thank you for your time and patience.

[miner]

From B&W:

Thank you for purchasing B&W! I would suggest running the N804s full range
rather than using the Line output of the ASW800 to filter the signal. The
benefits of this is the N804s are more than capable of playing a full range
signal, and you are not running the audio signal through another set of
cables and the extra processing in the ASW800's crossover. In this case, I
would set the crossover on the sub to be set at 40Hz to best blend in with
the N804s.

Best Regards,
Michael Sheehan
B&W / Rotel

[bigburner]

Well miner, I’m amazed. The ASW800 is designed to work with 800-series speakers, and that’s not the advice B&W provide in their ASW800 Owners Manual. They don’t even list it as an option. The fact is that the 804 or 803 or even the 802 will not handle low frequency bass as well as a sub when the speakers are being played at high volume. My suggestion is to go back to B&W and ask them if their advice would be the same for listening to music at high volume.

In answer to your questions:
• The sub cables I’m using are these ones: http://www.pudney.co.nz/cgi-bin/pudn...wproduct=P9593
• The low-pass filter on my sub is set to 80 Hz.

As for B&W’s advice to set the low-pass filter on your sub to 40 Hz, I suggest that you try a little experiment. Set it to 40 Hz, put on a track, and turn off your amp so all you can hear is the sub. Listen for a short while and ask yourself whether the $1400 was well spent for the amount of sound coming out of your sub. Then repeat the experiment with the low-pass filter set to 80 Hz.

Here is the wiring advice from the ASW800 Owners Manual:

Application: 2-channel audio
Separate pre- & power amplifiers:
a One or more subwoofers with output combined into a single mono signal – fig. 4.
b Two subwoofers with separate left and right signal – fig. 5.

[miner, fig. 4 shows RCA cables going from the preamp to the sub, and RCA cables going from the sub to the amp. Would you like me to send you the manual?]

Use for 2-channel audio
• Set the VOLUME control initially to the half way (12 o’clock) position.
• Set the LOW-PASS FREQUENCY initially to 80Hz.
• Set the LOW-PASS FILTER switch to IN.
• Set the EQ switch initially to position A.
• Set the PHASE switch initially to 0°.
See also the section “Fine tuning”.

Fine-tuning
The optimum settings of the PHASE switch and the LOW-PASS FREQUENCY control are inter-related and also dependent on the low-frequency cut-off characteristic of the satellite speakers and the relative positions of all the speakers in the installation. Set the system up in the preferred position and play some programme with a steady bass content. The optimum setting for the LOW-PASS FREQUENCY depends on several variables; the bass performance and power handling of the satellite speakers, the number of subwoofers used and their position relative to the satellite speakers. The range 80 – 90Hz is a good starting point for the LOW-PASS frequency. Unless two subwoofers are used to preserve separate right and left channel information and are sited close to the relevant satellite speakers, using a higher cut-off frequency may compromise the stereo image and should only be considered if the bass performance of the satellite speakers is particularly limited.

[miner]

Thank you bigburner. I do have the manual, but I appreciate the offer. I think I will go ahead I line out back to my amp. As you suggested the crossover set at 40 Hz does not produce much from sub. I was also surprised by B&W response.

[Mark_C.]

If I may intrude a bit. The crossover is not a hard and fast number (i.e. it's not a brick wall). There is overlap. The goal is to blend the mains with the sub to present a unified (as possible) sound. The sub should extend the low output range of the mains. I use a Rel Storm III with my 804s. Rel recommended a crossover in the low 30s for the 804s. Initially, I thought they were wrong. But after fine-tuning, I must say the low 30s is the proper crossover. Getting your money's worth from a sub doesn't mean running over the mains.

[scottielee]

i agree with Mark C. i have also found leaving out the sub's crossover in the path of the mains works best for my setup (signature 805 and velodyne dd-12 for 60hz and below).

[bigburner]

It's a funny old hobby. So many experts, so many different opinions, and all of us are right!

[miner]

OK, the only local sub cables I could find that were 25' were Monster Cable MonsterBass 300. Opinions welcomed on the quality of these cables. Thanks.

Aussie Geoff here - Lets offer "miner" any 'what's the best cable' opinions by PM so as to not accidently break the forum cable rules or take this thread off topic...

[miner]

Sorry about mentioning the 'M' word. Doug is taking care of me as we speak. I'll try to remember the rules in the future. ;x(