Best price one can get from a B&W dealer

[dknightd]

With items like B&W you need to build up a relationship with your dealer.

I don't understand this. Why should we have to build a relationship with the dealer? Shouldn't the dealer build a relationship with us if they want us as customers?

Then again, how often do most people buy new speakers? Should we just go in and talk with the dealer between purchases so they don't forget who we are. Seems silly to me. . .

We used to have two B&W dealers locally. But one lost his lease, and the owner was getting older, so he decided to close up shop. Too bad, he was the good one. I'm left with a dealer I don't really like much. Maybe I need to work harder to develop a relationship with them. . . I don't think so, their sales staff seems to turn over fairly frequently, and I have no idea who the owner is (I don't think he/she works the floor).

Some people are lucky and have good local dealers. Others are not so lucky.

I'm glad that B&W does not allow internet sales just because I think you should listen to speakers before buying them. It is hard to run a small shop and compete on price with a warehouse. We need local shops, so that is who I support.

[recall]

In the NYC area, there are three dealers that I go to. Each has a different sales strategy. One focuses so much on the experience of listening experience that it makes you feel bad to negotiate. Another won't budge beyond 10%, even on discontinued models, though I suspect that repeat customers get a bigger break because they seem to move their discontinued gear pretty well. The third dealer tends to keep the 10% rule unless there is a customer refusal/return or discontinued model. There, you can get new or close to new for 35%. But they know me as I've bought stuff from them and send them customers.

[style]

B&W best price Switzerland

Hallo,

I live in Switzerland.
If do you want a B&W speakes (same with Rotel gear) MAX. 5-6% reduction.
A official B&W group Dealer don't make more as this redustion = more reduction = lose the concession of B&W Group.

For ways crosspieces/other ways is possible to have max 10-15% but only
with a friend Dealer.
------
If do you go buy a B&W or Rotel in other country you don't have any guarantee over the product!!

this is the world, this is the power of money

Greetings from Switzerland
Omar

[newbiemex]

Anyone has an idea of the markup B&W dealers have? Since they take 10% off so easily and we're not talking about mass marketed products (meaning relatively few # of sales) I guess at least 40%

[dave240z]

Interesting thread.

I'm somewhat new to this Hi-Fi stuff as well, but here's my 2c.

As far as discount is concerned, I’ve been able to manage sales tax (8.25%) pretty easily. I also scored some free hookup wire (14AWG) for my fronts & center. It wasn’t top of the line wire, but it is more than adequate and meets the required specifications. I look at it as a ‘bonus” for buying into their products. Any additional discount seems to come up against a brick wall though. However, since I have been unable to find these products for less or with more discount somewhere else this seems about as good as it can get, which is fine with me.

While getting products for a great price is something we all like to have, there is something to be said when there is “value added”. The problem is that people don’t perceive value the same way. When I was contemplating taking the B&W plunge, the local salesman spent almost 2 hours with me, explaining the model lines, what makes a B&W a B&W, setup tips, etc….This is worth something.

I was also allowed to take items home to see how they would look and feel in my personal space. When I was choosing my fronts, I wasn’t sure if the 602S3 would fit, so I was allowed to take one home along with a 601S3 for comparison. Later, when I was contemplating the color for the M1s (black vs white), I was allowed to take one home of each color to see how they looked, no questions asked and with no hassle. This is worth something.

When it came time to install my CL/2 wire for the surrounds, rather than buy what I estimated I would need, I was allowed to take home the spool so I could just use what I needed. When done, simply return the spool and pay for what I used. Simple. Efficient. Painless. This is worth something.

So while it seems you can get up to 10% discount without too much trouble, there is something to be said for the business itself when it caters to your needs. While not easily quantifiable as a discount per se, it is certainly worth something to those of us who appreciate it.

[georgev]

Anyone has an idea of the markup B&W dealers have? Since they take 10% off so easily and we're not talking about mass marketed products (meaning relatively few # of sales) I guess at least 40%

You are spot on. The retailers make 40% mark up on B&W.

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

Its really kind of sad to play the haggle game with a business that caters to a more exotic line of products.

I bought a system for around $4,000 from my local dealer who was 60 miles away and he gave me 10% off and lets me do trade ups months after I make a purchase if I still have the boxes (which i always do). Even better the one problem I had with my amp, they didnt even check to see what was wrong, they simply gave me a brand new one from their stock and said "here ya go". Try doing that after 2 months at Magnolia or Best Buy without having their extended "service plan".

To me, I pay the markup because I get excellent service and my dealer doesn't lie to me. I would have spent nearly $6,000 but he advised to me a system that was much less and both sounded very similar.

These guys are just like us in most cases; hobby enthusiasts trying to keep their passion alive in an age of mass market garbage.

Will Best Buy let you demo a $3,000 pair of speakers for a week? How about a $300 Van Den Hul pair of interconnects? Didn't think so.

Stop with the internet price hagling with local dealers. We need them around as much we they need us and our money.

Its a Win, Win situation if you get a small discount. If you didnt get a discount, well you just made it more possible for your shop to buy newer equipment for you to demo and get excitied about.

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

The 40% markup on B&W speakers get eaten up with building rent, KNOWLEDGABLE sales staff and a wide range of EXCELLENT products.

B&W puts that margin in their speakers AFTER they pay their R&D dept and phone sales staff etc etc.

Honestly, Im 22 and I know not to merely look at one side of the economies of scale game here.

You want your local dealer to thrive and do well? Pay the markup and see how he repays you with trade ups, excellent personal service and no hassle QC issues. Plus the better he does, the better position he is in to give you that extra 5% on the already 10-15% discount you are already getting.

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

[QUOTE=Eliav][I][I]

."

With all respect to the educated and detailed article submitted by the honorable gentleman ( a dealer ?), some "morons" had visited other top quality products dealership such as top quality car dealership, top quality furniture dealership and so forth, so that their experience with top quality services is not necessarily confined to B&W speakers..This actually give these "morons" a stronger indication of how B&W marketing is indeed acting as a monopoly and of how B&W dealers have become B&W puppets.

Shopping with other high end brands definitely gives the impression that
B&W wisely keep their authorized dealreship network tightly controlled and limited in order to make sure their products are sold witihin the price limits THEY determine.
the system is built such that dealerships are restricted with their location, discounts,distribution, out of state shipment policies,on- line purchasing and so forth..It is making money and keeping their products under control which makes the system as it is, customer service and care is not the main issue as the respected dealer was trying to imply.

The dealers are not to be balmed for this, their share is practically low to begin with, while the B&W control over sales and prices limits dealer's flexibility with their customers valuable as they may be.

There is no doubt that B&W speakers are top quality products, however, the way these products are sold is defenitely a monopoly, it acts in favor of B&W's price protection and does its utmost to limit customer's freedom to bargain.

Eliav

The top portion of this is completely wrong. I know because I work with a manufacturer and I have to deal with the wholesale side of things, looking for dealers and such.

As with MOST manufacturers their main goal in the development of a product is to SELL it. They need to have quality products that are relative to their prices otherwise no dealer would see the value in stocking them and taking up valuable floor space. Price control is most an after thought for protection of their products and their dealers who rely on their margins to stay in business.

Customer service is extremely important with companies like B&W and Rotel; Frankly I have no idea where you think that they dont consider them to be important.

You can't look at customer service as just something they do for you when something goes wrong, the service is also the quality control portion of the process. Testing equipment again and again and again so the percentage of system failure is extremely low to begin with. Some have better methods than others but companies know that with the internet, if they produce a faulty Hi End product, its going to be shunned online and that will reflect in sales on the floor and then with their dealers not buying anything new.

Controling prices is very important for the well being of YOUR business aswell as those who sell your products. Why do you think B&W has been around so long? Their action plans are smart and effective and evolve with current times and demands.

If your qualm with B&W is that you think they do this keep more profits for themselves and to keep negoiating from the purchase then Im afraid you are wrong. Profits go back to R&D, salaries for all the PH.D's they have to invent the products you want and to the shareholders who support their business in the stock market.

B&W restricts the area and number of dealers because they know that they have a small niche of demand for an enormous market. They have to decline dealers all the time. If they flood the market with their products then they become what Klipsch has become, Mass market with tons of grey market sales on the side.

B&W's goal in sales isnt to restrict negotiation because everyone wants SOME type of deal, but they want to limit it because their dealers need what margin is there to stay open and to have a proper staff. It's to keep their quality of products high and sales always in the black.

[Cambs12]

I understand a third of the retail price covers manufacture cost(R&D etc),a third profit for the manufacturer,then a third to the dealer.So,if you get 10 per cent,you are doing pretty good.The points about after care,and training,good demo facilities are extremely valid,especially the higher up the range you get.
there are always other manufacturer's out there if price is the main consideration..I would personally get whatever discount i can,but then be happy with your dealer,and enjoy the product.

[Briz vegas]

I have dealt with most of our local hifi dealers (B&W and non-B&W) at one point or another and I have noticed some interesting similarities. Alot of the owner-operators are pretty jaded and don't seem to like their customers.

In one experience a friend of mine was doing a home demo on a receiver. The radio signal was audible when the receivers source was set to CD/DVD etc. This stopped when the CD was actually playing but it was a concern. He raised this with the dealer. Rather than being told that this was a characteristic of the receiver (a very high end brand) he was basically told to buy it or bring it back.

These guys are human and customers can be real sh#ts but if a repeat customer asks a natural question about a quality concern they should get a reasonable answer.

There also seems to be alot of resentment from dealers about the home demo. We have one dealer that will say things like "oh I knew you would bring that back" implying that you are just a tyre kicker. The whole point of a home demo is to evaluate a product for its synergy with your gear, your room etc. Not every product suits - I have taken plenty of demo gear back for that reason, but I have also purchased plenty of gear as well.

I think it is a shame that when I recommend a dealer I have to say "Ignore the dealers attitude" or "he's a bit grumpy, just ignore that, he does it with everyone".

I do wonder if we will see the end of the high end hifi dealer. From what I have read B&W seems to be doing very well. We have 4 hifi dealers northside and one dealer southside that sell product above the basic Yamaha/NAD level in a city of 1 million (2 million if you include adjoining cities). It will be interesting to see how that changes over time. Recently we went from 1 to 2 800 series dealers, but I can't see that being sustainable.

Lets just hope that the service oriented hifi business model survives the next 20 years. One of these days I would like to upgrade my amp, but it ain't gonna be any time soon (no I'm not suggesting 20 years, but I really need a break from spending ALL of my disposable income on hifi).

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

I have dealt with most of our local hifi dealers (B&W and non-B&W) at one point or another and I have noticed some interesting similarities. Alot of the owner-operators are pretty jaded and don't seem to like their customers.

In one experience a friend of mine was doing a home demo on a receiver. The radio signal was audible when the receivers source was set to CD/DVD etc. This stopped when the CD was actually playing but it was a concern. He raised this with the dealer. Rather than being told that this was a characteristic of the receiver (a very high end brand) he was basically told to buy it or bring it back.

These guys are human and customers can be real sh#ts but if a repeat customer asks a natural question about a quality concern they should get a reasonable answer.

There also seems to be alot of resentment from dealers about the home demo. We have one dealer that will say things like "oh I knew you would bring that back" implying that you are just a tyre kicker. The whole point of a home demo is to evaluate a product for its synergy with your gear, your room etc. Not every product suits - I have taken plenty of demo gear back for that reason, but I have also purchased plenty of gear as well.

I think it is a shame that when I recommend a dealer I have to say "Ignore the dealers attitude" or "he's a bit grumpy, just ignore that, he does it with everyone".

I do wonder if we will see the end of the high end hifi dealer. From what I have read B&W seems to be doing very well. We have 4 hifi dealers northside and one dealer southside that sell product above the basic Yamaha/NAD level in a city of 1 million (2 million if you include adjoining cities). It will be interesting to see how that changes over time. Recently we went from 1 to 2 800 series dealers, but I can't see that being sustainable.

Lets just hope that the service oriented hifi business model survives the next 20 years. One of these days I would like to upgrade my amp, but it ain't gonna be any time soon (no I'm not suggesting 20 years, but I really need a break from spending ALL of my disposable income on hifi).

The good thing for you is that you dont even need to have a GREAT dealer pop up and start carying those. Just wait until a dealer comes along or a new sales staff comes along that just does what they are suppose to and everyone will flock to that new store.

Dealers like the one you are describing wont stay in business that long because they are no relationships with their clients; which is a huge mistake.

I'll give you an example of what my dealer did for me. I get into Pink Floyd and Steve Miller Band and some other groups heavily. He put together a list of other Psycadelic that I would like and even told when were to get them and what numbers to get so they wouldnt have that new age compression on them.

And did i mention he offered to deliever my speakers for free? 60 miles away even.

Its no surprise these guys do as well as they are.

[yourtoys7]

In Canada 10%-15%, in USA 20%
I like when I get better % off, because time and time again I find that dealers don't no enough or not being honest with info. because they have to sell. For that reason I have hard time trusting them.
I Canada they won't give anything for home demo, in USA I have been offered many times.

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

In Canada 10%-15%, in USA 20%
I like when I get better % off, because time and time again I find that dealers don't no enough or not being honest with info. because they have to sell. For that reason I have hard time trusting them.
I Canada they won't give anything for home demo, in USA I have been offered many times.

Well dont support the bad dealers then. Chances are they stay in business long enough to make an impact on the sales of good dealers.

Im mixed about getting a heavy discount from bad dealers because it sets a precendent in your mind that this is what you SHOULD be getting from dealers if they want your business; which generally isnt the case.

Bad dealers have nothing to offer you outside of the products so they give you a bigger discount to get your money now, but how much will it cost you over time when you need some serious advice on a system setup where making a mistake can cost you thousands of dollars?

Then when that bad dealer closes up you take you attitude over to the good dealers where they dont give you 20% off and you leave with a bad taste in your mouth.

See where Im going with this?

[yourtoys7]

Well dont support the bad dealers then. Chances are they stay in business long enough to make an impact on the sales of good dealers.

Im mixed about getting a heavy discount from bad dealers because it sets a precendent in your mind that this is what you SHOULD be getting from dealers if they want your business; which generally isnt the case.

Bad dealers have nothing to offer you outside of the products so they give you a bigger discount to get your money now, but how much will it cost you over time when you need some serious advice on a system setup where making a mistake can cost you thousands of dollars?

Then when that bad dealer closes up you take you attitude over to the good dealers where they dont give you 20% off and you leave with a bad taste in your mouth.

See where Im going with this?

I don't expect anything, I talk see what they offer and go from there. At 20% I bought 804S, if that was 10% I would look else where. There is enuph offered slightly used toys at very good prices and that is where I would buy then.
My bryston 4B STT, 1 year old was purchased at 2100 cad. and sold for 2200 usd. 6 month later as setup was changed (exaple).

at 10% I wouldn't feel comfortable getting 804S at 20% It was good deal. I'm planing on getting 802 in 3 years or so and it won't be from a deal but from someone who enjoyed them before.

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

I don't expect anything, I talk see what they offer and go from there. At 20% I bought 804S, if that was 10% I would look else where. There is enuph offered slightly used toys at very good prices and that is where I would buy then.
My bryston 4B STT, 1 year old was purchased at 2100 cad. and sold for 2200 usd. 6 month later as setup was changed (exaple).

at 10% I wouldn't feel comfortable getting 804S at 20% It was good deal. I'm planing on getting 802 in 3 years or so and it won't be from a deal but from someone who enjoyed them before.

And thats fine if you want great products and want deals with them. Dont complain or be puzzled when good dealers go out of business because all of their customers want 20% off now because you got it.

Used products are different that NIB products so stating that because audiogon has good gear for good prices isn't valid. Dealers GENERALLY sell you new gear that is still in its box from the Manufacturer.

Getting used gear at good prices is an excellent way to put together a cheap system of great quality but im having a problem with you bringing in this " I want a deal on something new because i can get a deal on something used" mentality with dealers.

For the good of this industry and hobby, you shouldn't do that because it forces the dealer to either cut their profits (which they need) or tell you no (which they don't want to do) and lose you as a potential customer.

[Briz vegas]

:agree:

[Cambs12]

I am in full agreement.All of us have expensive hifi tastes that can't be serviced by cut-price pile-em-high retailers more accustomed to selling tvs and refrigerators etc.We want a good selection of stock to look at,home demos,good after sales and a good showroom to audition these products.This costs money.I am willing to pay near to full retail to get this.We have to remember that a lot of the Hifi companies we buy from do not have the financial clout of people like Sony,Denon etc.So we have a choice,we either accept these companies have high development costs and inherent risk with new models,and the dealers have their associated costs,or we buy from other manufacturers of probably lesser quality and support overall,and from cut-price retailers,or E-tailers.Good Hi-fi is not a cheap hobby,but one which i believe is long-term rewarding far beyond almost every other outlay.
I like reasonably expensive cars.I could buy from various manufacturer's who offer much bigger discounts with inferior products from dealers with poor aftersales,but you get what you pay for,just like Hifi.

I do get frustrated tho that my ideal speakers(B&W 802ds) are substantially cheaper to buy new in the States that where they are manufactured in the UK,but that's another story!! :M

[moonlightdrive21]

Speakers generally have high mark ups compared to electronics. You should not settle for less than a 15% discount in my opinion, especially when buying expensive speakers or buying electronics with them.

[jim777]

I'm just pissed that in Canada the 802D is still listed around 17k$ CAD (take off maybe 10%), while it is 12k$ USD minus 20% in the states. For God's sake, the exchange rate hasn't been 40% for years now, it's more around 10%. (Just don't forget the 6.5% customs fee to import speakers from US to CAN).

I don't want to kill CAN dealers, but one can go to NY, get brand new 802D's and import them for the price of a 803D up here.

[yourtoys7]

jim777

and thats why I'm only buying in US.

[dknightd]

I don't want to kill CAN dealers, but one can go to NY, get brand new 802D's and import them for the price of a 803D up here.

You have to wonder why the dealers don't do that. Load up a big truck with speakers and you could probably get a discount from any dealer Maybe B&W tracks which serial numbers go where, and it would cost the CAN dealers their dealership status. Still it does sound weird. On the other hand a few years ago it might have been cheaper for a US customer to drive to Canada and purchase. So what comes around goes around. :T I'm just glad I kept my leftover cash from last time I went to Canada. I've probably earned more money with the cash sitting in my drawer than I would have putting that money back in the bank :twisted:

I am glad B&W and other "high end" companies do not sell via the internet.
If they did we'd have no place to go to listen to and compare speakers. As it is small speciality stores are getting rarer.

From what I've seen a B&W dealer in the US can discount speakers by about 40% and break even - if you neglect costs of doing business. That means a markup of 66% (i.e. the dealer might pay $600 for a speaker, that lists for $1000). I don't know if B&W sells to all dealers at the same cost - they may charge more for low volume and less for higher volume - they may charge less in some countries and more in others - I don't know. That is a relatively high markup. But, there is a cost associated with carrying inventory to demo, the sales volume is not large, they take up space, etc. I'd be happy if I could get 10-20% off list. But I'm willing to pay MSRP if needed.

If you are buying a full HT setup all at once and don't need any help setting it up, or are paying for that separately, then you can expect a reasonable discount off list price. If you are buying a pair of bookshelves, then you are lucky not to pay sales tax. There are no hard and fast rules. The dealer has to make enough money to stay in business, and feed his/her kids. The buyer has to feel happy enough to want to shop there again.

enough rambling - I need another beer (Now I wonder, what is the markup on the beer I drink?)

[Russ L]

25% if the dealer is feeling guilty about giving you only 30% for your B&W trade ins :cry: Regards, Russ

[misterdoggy]

Well Im in France and bought mine from some East Germans who are happy to make a small amount and get the biz. Helps them, helps me, win win all around.

I got 20%, then didn't have to pay the taxes another 20% so the total savings was 40%. 12000 euros ended up costing me around 7300 euros.

Gotta keep those east germans in business

[ROTCArmyHifiGuy]

Say hi to the ex stasse for us haha

[misterdoggy]

Say hi to the ex stasse for us haha

Its probably them who are running the whole thing. :lol:

[familiar1985]

I see this is an old thread but i have to add my 2 cents. Many of you make interesting points. The way i see it generally the dealer is trying to make as much money from a customer as he can. There is nothing wrong with that as his business exists to make money. While the customer is trying to get the best deal possible. Nothing wrong with that either. Service, advice etc..... matters but all things equal it would be foolish to get 10% off when you can get 30% off. B&W speaker market is no different then many other markets. There should be no hurt feelings here. Its consumer vs dealer. We are not on the same team. Might not be bad that B&W doesn't allow the sale of their speakers over the internet as the likely result of internet sales is no in store sales meaning no demo etc... Dealers/salesman complaining about costumers wanting a discount need to man up. Play the game. If he got a better price somewhere else good for him. Don't complain. Dealers are consumers as well and likely not going to buy from wholesalers that give them higher prices then ones that give lower prices on items that they cant get direct from manufacturer. I still buy certain brands from wholesalers rather then direct from manufacturer because i get better price from them. Many of us in sales play both sides at different times. If my customer can find a better deal then i give him i am happy for him.

That being said i think 20% off on B&W is a good deal for both. If i was buying i would try to get the largest discount and if i was selling i would try to make the most money on sale while leaving customer happy.

[jackz]

The dealer that I bought that stuff from was trying to get out of the high end 800 series at the time, he said in his area that he could not move them. He had a pair of N802's that he priced to me at $4600 and a HTM1 at $1200, both units were new, I took the HTM1, I already had N803's.

There are deals all around, you just have to look.

what dealer did you brought them from, thanks

[Industrial]

I get 10%

Edit: And now I see how old the thread is, oh well.

[wettou]

Well it depends and varies from 10% up to 30% off depending on the dealer, and how hungry they are.

Shop around especially if you are buying several pieces :T

[Skyblue]

In my country, they have forbidden any discounts in the chain that sells b&w. Thats for all product lines, so not b&w in particular..

[beden1]

Well it depends and varies from 10% up to 30% off depending on the dealer, and how hungry they are.

Shop around especially if you are buying several pieces :T

Find me an example of the the 30%. Best I could do was 20%.

[dukester]

This forum could be a dealer's nightmare

I agree with wettou, the deals are out there...especially if you've established a good relationship with your dealer. That and timing are everything.

[wettou]

Find me an example of the the 30%. Best I could do was 20%.

Well, I could not divulge his name on this forum as he would loose his dealership with B&W and Classé all I can say is LA area :W

[Skyblue]

Well, I could not divulge his name on this forum as he would loose his dealership with B&W and Classé all I can say is LA area :W

I too can get a decent discount, but only by shutting up.. so..