N805 in direct mode - Gettng a Sub working?

**Amarkus1** · 22 June 2005, 17:24 Wednesday

If the pre-amp and amp you buy has balanced connections then maybe use the L\R balanced outputs to your amp and run the amp to your 805's. Then use the L\R RCA style output of your pre-amp for your subs. I don't know if this will work for sure, but I have pondered this situation in my setup. But I decided to upgrade from 803's to 802's (still waiting for my new babies to come home.. ;x( ). Because I to love analog bypass, but felt my 803's were lacking just a little low end.

**audioqueso** · 22 June 2005, 20:01 Wednesday

Get a Marantz as a pre-amp. I have the 805s as well and I have a SR6400, and there is an option as to large spkr/small spkr just like everyone else. But it has a bass config that allows me to use the main spkrs full range all the time with a sub or not. So in direct-source mode, it will still use my sub and spkrs in full range. Just a suggestion.

**greggz** · 22 June 2005, 20:56 Wednesday

This creates a new problem for me, as my Left & Right speakers are N805 and are limited in their bass capabilities (I don't want to sell them though).

You can solve this problem by using a REL sub. A REL sub connects to your amp just like your speakers. You send a full range signal to the speakers and the REL sub. You adjust the crossover on the REL to begin adding in bass where your speakers begin running out.

I use a REL with my N805's in just such a setup. I send a full range signal to the N805s and have the REL crossed over at about 33Hz. The REL supplies all the bass below 33Hz. It has a 12dB slope so it augments the N805's bass from 33Hz to 45Hz, and then 45Hz and above is handled by the N805s. And the beauty is that it is seamless. Your ears cannot distinguish what is coming from the sub vs the speakers.

I am using a single REL Strata III but hope to add a 2nd Strata III some day to add a little more weight for home theater.

**Ash** · 23 June 2005, 14:48 Thursday

Thanks guys, those are good suggestions.

audioqueso,
We have a Marantz dealer here and in my search for amps, I'm getting really convinced with Arcam.

greggz,
I have just completed the speakers aspect of my system, and my final purchase was the two ASW675, which I bought one month ago! Therefore, I really want to work with my current speakers.

**Ash** · 23 June 2005, 15:07 Thursday

I have struggled for quite some time with my system.

I could never get decent sound from my system especially with music. I alway blame my receiver and DVD player for that, as they only cost $300 for both (Pioneer). When I listen to music in any mode, the sound sucks, whether it is in ProLogic II or setero or anything.

I also know that I don't want to listen to mt CD in any surround mode, I want to listen to them in setreo. And I guess, the best setreo sound that I can get from a surround pre-amp/ surround amp is by using the direct mode. However, again, I know the limitations of my N805 especially in the low frequencies.

I'm going to spend alot of money on my next amp, and I want to know whether doing what I explained in the first post would give me good full rage sound (as if the two subs were part of each individual N805). Will I be getting good sound for my investement. Our should I consider buying a regular receiver that would give good sound only for movies and hope that sometime in the next 5 to 7 year I would buy a 802 or 801.

Im tired of thinking about this. I really want to get good stereo sound from this setup, while still maintaining good HT.

Any comments will be appritiated, thanks.

**akhter** · 24 June 2005, 14:03 Friday

I have the N804 connected to the Arcam AVR300. I am facing the same issue. I am thinking of getting a Velodyne DD-12 (not anytime soon though) and I know that in stereo direct mode the LFE preouts don't get any output. The solution is to hook up the L+R preouts to the sub, and in the setup of ARCAM AVR300 bass management, set subwoofer = 'none' and front speakers = 'large'. Then, you get bass from subwoofer in stereo direct mode, and when watching 5.1, because you set up large front speakers, the DSP bass management will know to route you LFE signals through your front speakers.

**Ash** · 24 June 2005, 16:59 Friday

akhter,

Thanks that was very helpful. I think I'm going to do exactly that. Do you think that another sub for LFE would be necessary or my current subs will be enough. I thought the LFE was a seperate channel (when using the 5.1), can it be routed to the front speakers when they are set as large, cause if they do, I don't need to buy another sub.

**akhter** · 24 June 2005, 17:13 Friday

Depending on the DSP implementataion and bass management of you receiver the 3rd sub may not be necessary if you configure your receiver and tell it that you DON'T have a subwoofer. Most modern receivers allow you to tell it exactly what speakers you have, and route the sound from all your missing speakers to the ones that do exist. I have no center channel, but in dd 5.1 all the dialog is typically in the center channel. My receiver knows to send all that to the front L+R.

**VikingP** · 24 June 2005, 19:08 Friday

Hi Ash,

I am having the exact same problem in my setup; my mains cannot go too low, but I want to use the bypass mode on my Rotel, so I therefore get a very "bass-poor" sound.
What I am in the process of doing, is to make an electronic switch which will sense whether or not there is a signal on the sub input on the subwoofer, if there is, then an analog switch (FSA2257) will be turned to its high logic level and direct the signal from the sub output to the subwoofer's pre/xover/amplifier. If there is no signal on the sub output, then the analog switch will remain to its low logic level, which in my case routes the L+R output signal to the subwoofer's pre/xover/amplifier.
The analog switch has extremly small distortion, small and constant on resistance, and fast switching, which makes it perfect for my needs. The only problem with it is that it is a surface mount chip, and therefore measures about 2mm by 1.5mm, which poses a problem right now.

I don't know if such a device exists for purchase, but if it does, then it will eliminate the need for a third sub, and allow you to use the bypass mode, while still having a discrete LFE signal routed to your subs for movies.
In the case that such a device does not exist, then I can send you the schematics for the switch, provided it works, and that you are willing to get into a bit of electronic DIY.

regards

Paul

**Ash** · 25 June 2005, 03:14 Saturday

Hello Paul,

Thanks for you reply and consideration. I'm not sure how is this going to function on my setup. I also doubt that I will be able to fabricate such a device. But it really sounds interesting.

**ZX10 Guy** · 25 June 2005, 13:43 Saturday

Here's how I have my system hooked up. I have N804s for the fronts and an HTM-1 center. I also have a Velo HGS12II dedicated to the two mains and and a Velo HGS15II dedicated for LFE duty. I also have the following source components: a Meridian 568.2MM feeding into a Bryston BP25. My old setup had 2 Carver TFM-25s vertically biamping the the N804s. I was feeding the the 2 amps from the BP25 because it has 2 unbalanced outs. But instead of feeding the amp channel driving the woofers of the 804s directly, I wired the output into the HGS12 and fed the amp with the high pass output of the sub. I dialed in the HGS12 to work with the 804s and was very happy. I would run in Direct mode from my Meridian when listening to 2 channel music.

Recently, I made a system change. Since I needed to buy some more amps to drive the center and the rear surrounds, I had to make a decision as to whether I wanted to continue to keep this pseudo passive biamp configuration or drop it altogether in favor of going with a 3 channel amp for the fronts. I decided to drop the passive biamping in favor of getting the 3 channel amp. I bought a Bryston 6B ST. During the work to set up the new amp into my system, I felt I liked the Bryston running full range into the 804s instead of coming off the HGS12's high pass output. I roughly dialed in the HGS12 to blend in with the 804s now running full range. Again, I'm able to do this as the BP25 has the 2 sets of unbalanced outs. In the future, I'll probably dump the unbalanced cables and go with a set of balanced ones. So far, I'm pretty pleased with the setup as I can now run Trifield with my Meridian which integrates the center into 2 channel music material. The center image is now locked in. I still have a lot of tweaking to do and will probably have to do it again when my sound room is completed in the next month or so.

**Ash** · 25 June 2005, 17:11 Saturday

ZX10 Guy,

Thanks for sharing your comments. That sounds like a very nice system. Did you prefer the bass with you previous setup or the current setup?

**bigburner** · 26 June 2005, 06:57 Sunday

Ash, I suggest that you post your query on the Rotel or Home Theatre forums where you should find lots of experts who can tell you how to configure an HT amplifier in direct mode and still take advantage of high pass filtering for your 805 fronts.

I'd love to help you, but I'm not into HT and my Rotel gear (RC1070 / RB1080) is configured for 2.1 music, using my ASW750's pre-set high pass filter to eliminate the low bass load on my fronts.

**ZX10 Guy** · 26 June 2005, 07:26 Sunday

Ash,

Thanks for the compliment. Adding in the sub into the mix was definitely an improvement at the lower frequency range than not having it in all the configurations I've tried. It's what happened in the mid bass and mids area where it steered me to on configuration vs. another. In the Carver setup, it worked well as the high pass filter only applied to the woofers of the N804s. The mid and tweeter still received 100% unfiltered signal. So the sound was great except I still felt the Carvers didn't deliver enough when driven hard. It was really apparent when I swapped in the Bryston. When driven loud the Bryston was simply smoother than the two Carvers. With the Bryston though, running the signal input from the high pass output of the Velodyne left a lot to be desired. I immediately noticed some muddying of the midbass/mids area. I didn't stick with that setup long as I already wasn't happy with the sonic signature of the setup. So that brings us to my current configuration of running the N804s at full range and having the Velo blend itself in. The current sub settings are just a rough configuration as I didn't want to spend too much time trying to fine tune it into the system. I'll have to repeat everything again when the sound room gets done shortly. Plus I have some nasty resonances in my family room that hopefully will be minimal to zero in the sound room if I did my homework correctly.

**Ash** · 27 June 2005, 17:13 Monday

Bigburner,
thanks for the advice I made a thread in HT Forum.

**Ash** · 27 June 2005, 17:15 Monday

ZX10 Guy,

Sounds great. I guess I have to try some different set-ups myself inorder to find out the optimum setting.

N805 in direct mode - Gettng a Sub working?

N805 in direct mode - Gettng a Sub working?

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