Denon AVR-3805 Mini Review

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  • Kevin P
    Member
    • Aug 2000
    • 10809

    Denon AVR-3805 Mini Review

    I have the opportunity to try out a Denon AVR-3805 for a few days. I'll be posting my impressions here.

    Feature Highlights

    The 3805 is loaded. It supports all the latest surround formats, including Dolby ProLogic IIx, DTS ES Discrete/Matrix, DTS 96/24, DTS NEO:6, Dolby Digital EX, and HDCD. It also has plenty of inputs - 7 A/V inputs plus CD, phono, and CD-R/Tape in/outs. Digital inputs are plentiful as well - 5 optical, 2 coaxial, plus two optical outputs. The AVR-3805 also supports Denon Link 3, a format that allows DVD-Audio (and SACD in the future) to be delivered in a protected digital format. 7.1-channel external inputs are provided, as well as 7.1 channel preamp outputs. Component video switching allows three sources of Y/Pr/Pb component video to be switched through the receiver. Also, composite and S-video sources are upconverted to component video. With this receiver, only one TV input needs to be used for all your devices, from composite-video VCRs up to HDTV cable boxes. The surround amps can also be used to power two additional zones.

    Setup

    As an installer, I've set up many different brands of receiver. The Denon is easy to set up--far easier than Sony, but a little more difficult than Onkyo or Outlaw. On-screen displays walk you through the major set-up categories, from setting speaker parameters to speaker levels, to assigning digital and component video inputs to specific input selections. The test tones work well for balancing the speakers accurately. I balanced the speakers with the built in test tones, and then verified with Avia test tones, and the speakers were balanced within 1 db. Balancing with external tones such as Avia is somewhat tricky, since you have to use the built-in test tones to adjust speaker levels, but it's easy to switch in and out to check with the Avia tones. Plus you can set the test tones to manual, so it stays on one speaker until you switch with the remote.

    Audio Quality

    The first thing I did after calibrating the AVR-3805 was to evaluate it for 2 channel audio quality. My main receiver is an Outlaw 1050, a unit that cost less than half as the Denon but has excellent quality amps, which are rare in low-cost receivers. The Outlaw shines for 2 channel audio, so I compared the Outlaw to the Denon. I used Celine Dion's "The Power Of Love" as my test track, as her voice really sings on quality gear and shrieks on lesser gear. I listened to the track several times, in several configurations, making the following comparisons:

    (Signal in analog format)
    1. AVR-3805 in Stereo mode vs. Direct vs. Pure Direct (subwoofer enabled)
    2. AVR-3805 in Pure Direct (subwoofer disabled, speakers set to Large)
    3. Outlaw 1050 in 5.1 Direct (no subwoofer)

    (Signal in digital format, using coaxial digital cable)
    1. AVR-3805 in Stereo mode vs. Direct vs. Pure Direct
    2. Outlaw 1050, CD input, Stereo mode

    The Analog tests used my Sony DVP-S9000ES DVD player's DACs, and tested both the analog pass through and ADC/DAC quality of the receiver. The Digital tests fed a PCM signal via coaxial digital cable to both receivers, and compared DAC quality. The results were:

    (Analog)
    1. AVR-3805 in Stereo mode - Celine's voice made my ears bleed. Direct and Pure Direct were better, her voice was clearer (see my comments on HDCD below--this ear pain is more likely the result of the CD format and not a fault of the Denon).
    2. AVR-3805 in Pure Direct (subwoofer disabled, speakers set to Large) This is the only way to completely bypass the digital stages in the AVR-3805. The sound was similar to the Outlaw 1050, but the 1050 has a bit more clarity and detail, and the instruments are more distinct.

    (Digital)
    The AVR-3805's DACs are comparable or slightly superior to the Outlaw's for standard CD audio. Of course, not even the finest receiver can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so some of the grittiness is a result of CD's resolution, and not a fault of the Denon or my CD transport. When I played a HDCD-encoded CD, the Denon really shined. The edginess and grittiness was gone. I could crank it without hurting my ears.

    I tried some of the DSP effects, including 7-channel stereo and DPL IIx Music. I wasn't overly impressed with 7-channel stereo in my setup, as some of the vocals were coming from the center surround behind me. I'll try 5 channel stereo later on. The DPL IIx Music mode sounded nice though.

    I also sampled a couple of SACDs on my 2 channel SACD player - Titanic soundtrack and The Police. Both sounded wonderful, but I didn't spend a lot of time on it because I was getting anxious to hear surround sound!

    Of course, one doesn't normally buy a 7.1 channel home theater receiver to listen to CDs, at least in a critical fashion, so let's get on with where the Denon really shines - movies and surround sources.

    After I finished my 2-channel tests, I wanted to see what DTS 96/24 was all about. I popped in a Queen DVD and played some tracks including Bohemian Rhapsody. It was sweet. I've never heard multichannel music sound so good. The soundstage wrapped almost completely around me and some of the panning effects in Killer Queen went completely around me. I think I'll bring this disc with me when I install the receiver at the customer's house!

    I also sampled some movie clips, in different surround formats: Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition (for DD EX and DTS ES Matrix), The Haunting (DTS ES Discrete), and Finding Nemo (DD EX). They all sounded wonderful. Like with other receivers, DTS in most cases outshined DD, giving a fuller sound, at least on the titles I tried.

    DTS movies automatically turned on the appropriate DTS mode - 5.1, ES Matrix or ES Discrete. DD EX movies aren't all flagged to turn on the EX mode--Finding Nemo is, but Terminator 2 isn't. It's easy to toggle the back surrounds on and off from the remote so this isn't an issue.

    Remote

    The AVR-3805 comes with an interesting remote. It has two EL backlit panels and the buttons light up depending on the device or mode selected. The backlight turns on as soon as you pick up or move the remote. In between the two panels is an array of hard buttons--channel up/down, volume up/down, menu keys, and an Enter key in the center. The remote has preset codes for many brands, has learning capability plus macro capability.

    Despite the remote's cool looks and features, it has some quirks. In particular, the "touch" panels are actually membrane keys behind the panel, meaning you have to press down on the "buttons" to activate them. The volume buttons are quirky too sometimes, if you hold them down too long the volume starts changing quickly. You have to tap the button quickly to make small volume changes. The volume buttons also have two "clicks" and not just one, when you press it, as if there are two switches underneath. I won't be replacing my Pronto with this remote.

    Overall ratings for the Denon AVR-3805:
    Build quality: :5:
    Rear panel layout: :45:
    Amp power: :5:
    Remote: :3:
    Video Switching/Upconversion: :5:

    2-channel audio ratings:
    CD-Audio (analog): :4:
    CD-Audio (digital): :45:
    HDCD (digital): :5: :T
    FM tuner: :3:

    5/6/7.1 channel audio ratings:
    Dolby Digital (EX): :45:
    Dolby ProLogic IIx: :45:
    DTS (ES): :5:
    DTS 96/24: :5:

    The gear used for this review:

    Reviewed Receiver: Denon AVR-3805
    Comparison Receiver: Outlaw 1050
    DVD/CD/SACD: Sony DVP-S9000ES
    Speakers: Platinum Audio Studio 2 (Studio 3 towers as mains) - 6.1 configuration
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39CS powered by Peavey CS800
    Television: Mitsubishi WT-46805 46" 16:9 RPTV

    Analog audio interconnects provided by Cat Cables. :T For CD/SACD to the Outlaw, Silvercats were used. For CD/SACD to the Denon, Catalinas were used, as my Silvercats weren't long enough. Component video cables between the Denon and RPTV is a CatCables Tigress. LFE path provided by BlueTigers. Other cables used aren't worth mentioning here. ops:




    Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
    My HT Site
  • GregoriusM
    Super Senior Member
    • Oct 2000
    • 2755

    #2
    Nice review, Kev. Thanks!

    I don't know if you've used Denon receivers before, but even if you use a universal remote, the volume control is set so that the longe you hold the button, the faster the volume ramps up.

    I've always had a love/hate relationship with this on my Denon. I would like it if it didn't go into "overdrive" as quickly as it does. I'd like a few seconds where I can bring up the volume slowly before it changes a few gears and you've got the sound blaring.

    I'm a little disappointed in your musical perception of the receiver. I was hoping for a little bettter than what you mentioned, although 4.5 stars isn't really bad. I do have to have decent musicality in my equipment, because I no doubt will be buying a receiver rather than separates the next time around.

    I'm particular bothered by the fact that Celine didn't sound as good on the Denon as on the Outlaw. Not only not as good, but your ears hurt. Bad!

    Again, thanks for the "mini-review".

    Greg
    .
    Gregor

    Comment

    • Kevin P
      Member
      • Aug 2000
      • 10809

      #3
      Well, Gregorius, it wasn't that it sounded bad with Celine, but I couldn't give it "four and seven-eighths" stars either. The difference was minor. The only time my ears hurt was in stereo mode, and an analog signal. Direct mode, or Pure Direct was a big improvement. Other receivers I've done the Celine test with have fared far worse.

      One other thing to note, the ear-splitting aspect of the Celine CD is partly due to the CD format itself. Her voice has a way of not taking well to ADC/DAC conversion at 16 bits. Note to self, pick up SACD copy of Celine for future tests.

      It all depends on what you are upgrading from, and what your tastes are. I use my system for 2-channel as well as home theater, so I tend to be critical of 2 channel performance, which few HT receivers do really well. (My next upgrade will likely be to separates). The Celine test is a challenge for the DACs, amps, and speakers. If you have a Sony, Yamaha, or some lower end model receiver, even an older model Denon, the 3805 will likely be an improvement sound quality wise. If you have the Outlaw 1050 or separates, you might take a bit of a hit. Though if you're going from separates to the 3805, you can always use the amps you have with it and it'll likely sound wonderful.

      Of course the slight 2-channel performance hit is more than made up by the 3805's performance advantages for home theater. My Outlaw couldn't hold a candle to the Denon's DPL IIx, DTS ES, DTS 96/24 and HDCD capabilities.

      So, my Outlaw sounded better with a Celine Dion CD. The Denon sounded better with the Queen DTS 96/24 DVD. Satisfied?




      Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
      My HT Site

      Comment

      • John Holmes
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Aug 2000
        • 2703

        #4
        Nice job Kevin!




        "I came here, to chew bubble gum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubble gum!!!" My DVD's
        "I have come here, to chew bubblegum and kickass. And I'm all out of bubblegum!!!"

        Comment

        • GregoriusM
          Super Senior Member
          • Oct 2000
          • 2755

          #5
          Originally posted by GregoriusM
          I'm a little disappointed in your musical perception of the receiver.
          Kev: I hope you didn't take this that I was disappointed in YOUR musical perception as it being a WRONG perception. I was disappointed that the Denon was not as musical as I had hoped.

          G.
          .
          Gregor

          Comment

          • Shane Martin
            Super Senior Member
            • Apr 2001
            • 2852

            #6
            Thanks for the Review!

            I'm trying to decide on this particular receiver vs the NAD T773(which is more money).

            Comment

            • Kevin P
              Member
              • Aug 2000
              • 10809

              #7
              Originally posted by GregoriusM
              Kev: I hope you didn't take this that I was disappointed in YOUR musical perception as it being a WRONG perception. I was disappointed that the Denon was not as musical as I had hoped.
              I understood what you meant. The Denon is pretty musical, it just falls a tad short of the Outlaw, which is a rare gem amongst low-cost HT receivers in terms of musicality (part of the reason I'm hesitant to part with it).

              I'll do some more audio evaluations on the 3805 today. I'll concentrate on artists other than Celine, and spend some more time listening to some SACDs.




              Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
              My HT Site

              Comment

              • Trevor Schell
                Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2000
                • 10935

                #8
                Excellent review Kevin!!
                I mean real excellent!! :T
                Well Done!! ;x(

                Shane,
                Being an owner of both Denon and NAD gear
                I would put my money on the new NAD T773.
                Based on the specs, the dynamics of the NAD will be huge!
                I wish I still had my T770 for the family room..




                Trevor
                My HomeTheater S.E.
                Sonically Enhanced
                C5
                Trevor



                XBOX 360 CARD

                Comment

                • George Bellefontaine
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2001
                  • 7637

                  #9
                  I have the 3801, an erlier version of the 3805, and though I use it mostly for movie watching, it is quite nice when playing music. However, I can only compare it to the Yamaha A3090, which the Denon replaced in my theater, and the Denon was much warmer, and frankly sounds much better in the theater. But I am not that critical a listener when it comes to music; much more so when it comes to movie soundtracks, though.




                  My Homepage!
                  My Homepage!

                  Comment

                  • Kevin P
                    Member
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10809

                    #10
                    I think I found a glitch in the 3805's bass management, stay tuned while I burn some test tones to CD and run some tests...

                    Ok, here's the scoop. Maybe not a bug per se, but a feature (one I've read of in other units that offer analog bypass modes as well). There's no mention in the manual however. When using Direct or Pure Direct mode, even with the main speakers set to small, bass goes to the speakers AND the sub. I ran the following tests: AVIA low-frequency sweeps (Dolby Digital) and Stereophile test CD test tones (PCM). All speakers are set to small, and crossover set to 80 Hz. The results were the same whether I used analog or digital input. Here's the results:

                    Stereo mode, or surround active (Avia only): low frequencies are rolled off from the speakers by the crossover, as it should
                    Direct mode: low frequencies are passed to the speakers, sub still received information below 80 Hz
                    Pure Direct mode: Same as Direct Mode

                    This results in "double bass" when using Direct or Pure Direct mode. Apparently Direct and Pure Direct modes bypass the digital stages responsible for the crossover to the speakers. However, the crossover is still active and passing low frequencies to the sub. The advantage is a "pure analog" signal path to the speakers (which is why Celine sounds better in these modes), but they should have at least provided an option to kill the sub in these modes. Or they could have done like Outlaw did in the 950 and provide a fixed, analog crossover for Direct/Pure Direct mode.

                    According to the manual, the digital stages are bypassed only if the sub is set to Off in setup and you switch to Pure Direct. Apparently this is only partially true. With the sub on, the digital stage still provides low-pass filtering to the sub, while the mains receive an unaltered signal. Of course, the drawbacks are either double bass, or low frequencies being sent to speakers incapable of reproducing them (my towers are very capable in the low frequencies, therefore I get double bass unless I turn the sub off).

                    I'm surprised this happens with a digital signal being fed to the receiver, since that has to hit the DAC, you'd think it could hit the crossover on the way too. Usually analog bypass is applicable only to analog inputs.




                    Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
                    My HT Site

                    Comment

                    • GregoriusM
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Oct 2000
                      • 2755

                      #11
                      Great discovery, KP.

                      I have Direct mode on my historic Denon 3300, but I'd swear that it does not direct any lower frequencies to my speakers when they are set to small.

                      BUT, I haven't done any testing or definitive listening.

                      To me, that is not a feature at all. Either go through the digital and provide bass management, or go Direct with bass management, or go Pure Direct without anything going to the sub and the mains taking the entire range.

                      That seems like the way it should be to me.

                      Keep up the good work, Kev!

                      G.
                      .
                      Gregor

                      Comment

                      • Chris D
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Dec 2000
                        • 16877

                        #12
                        Wow, good post, Kev! :banana: Good product too.

                        I don't know, though... only 3 stars for FM radio? That shoots down the whole product for me.




                        CHRIS
                        Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"
                        CHRIS

                        Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
                        - Pleasantville

                        Comment

                        • yo-homi
                          Junior Member
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 1

                          #13
                          looked forward to this review for ages
                          kudos to you kev
                          However the denon link is the best way to listen to the 3805
                          the dvd a11 and dvd A1 ,are the only compatable dvd players until the dvd 2900 is replaced later this year...
                          So come on Kev do the right thing , get the rest of the kit and let us know what you think

                          Comment

                          • Kevin P
                            Member
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 10809

                            #14
                            I wish I could, but I don't have the 3805 anymore... I had it on loan. The customer who ordered it has it now. I can't afford a DVD A11 or A1... or the 3805 for that matter. :cry:

                            As a connisseur (sp?) of both 2-channel audio and home theater, my next upgrade will likely be separates anyway. Most mainstream HT receivers don't do 2 channel all that well, since that's not what the average Joe buys them for.




                            Official Computer Geek and Techno-Wiz Guru of HTGuide - Visit Tower of Power
                            My HT Site

                            Comment

                            • CharlieBrown
                              Junior Member
                              • May 2004
                              • 1

                              #15
                              AVR-3803 subwoofer output in Pure Direct mode

                              Hello.

                              First of all, thank you for the review, Kevin.

                              I have the Denon older model, the AVR-3803, and it suffers from the same "feature". Even in Pure Direct mode, the subwoofer receives its signal. This problem is annoying, as the very reason of the Pure Direct mode is to hear stereo sound as clean as possible, using only the main front speakers.

                              I think that the possible cause is that the subwoofer output is taken from the preout section, but this is no excuse.

                              Could anyone give his/her opinion about the sound quality of the 3805 related to the 3803?

                              Thanks in advance.

                              Comment

                              • jbliz
                                Junior Member
                                • May 2004
                                • 2

                                #16
                                Great review Kevin P. I'm pretty much set on getting the 3805, but I was wondering whether or not I should buy the $65 denon mic, or if I would be better off buying a RS SPL meter and Avia disc.

                                It looks like you used both during your review. Which would allow me to set up a new Denon 3805 better, the denon mic, or SPL meter + Avia disc?

                                Thanks for the great work,

                                John

                                Comment

                                • Kevin P
                                  Member
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 10809

                                  #17
                                  I didn't have the mic, I only used Avia + SPL.

                                  Comment

                                  • aud19
                                    Twin Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Aug 2003
                                    • 16706

                                    #18
                                    I'm guessing the mic might work better for specifically setting up the 3805. However buying an SPL and Avia or Video Essentials would give you the bennefit of assisting you with your video setup as well. Not to mention that you can use the disc and SPL meter on friends and family's systems as well.

                                    Jason
                                    Jason

                                    Comment

                                    • jbliz
                                      Junior Member
                                      • May 2004
                                      • 2

                                      #19
                                      Good point, I'll probably get an avia disc and SPL meter, then I can use the disc to calibrate the Samsung DLP I plan to buy

                                      Comment

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