Denon 4802R or Denon 3805... Or???

[Bing Fung]

Hey all...

I have resolved to the fact that I may need a sound processor with an adjustable audio delay.

I was looking at getting the New Denon 3805. It's priced at $1900 cdn at my local dealer. I can get this for around $1400 cdn off Ebay for a new in box factory sealed A stock. Thoughts on buying this unit from the US off ebay?


What about the 4802R? I can get this for around $2000 off Ebay as a B stock , with a US Denon warranttee. What are the advantages of the 4802R over the 3805?

Anything else i should look at with an adjustable audio delay?

I'm partial to Denons for I have had a lot of success and enjoyment out of my AVR 3300. I'm actually not wanting to replace it, but I do need that darn audio delay. Unless Toshiba fesses up and decides to develop a fix for my TV :roll:

[Kevin P]

Well the 3805 is a newer model and offers support for some newer formats that the 4802R lacks, such as ProLogic IIx, DTS 96/24, and HDCD. It also offers conversion of composite and S-video signals to component video, and the Denon Link input which allows a digital connection to Denon DVD-A players (and at some point, SACD as well). The component video switching has 100 MHz bandwidth, double that of the 4802R.

The 4802R offers 5 more watts per channel (negligible), THX certification, a better remote, and probably higher quality power supply and amps, given its higher price point. But it isn't bleeding edge like the 3805.

Both units have the audio delay feature you're looking for.

So, if you want the latest bells and whistles, go with the 3805. If you want a top end receiver with THX, go with the 4802R.

[Bing Fung]

Thanks for pointing out the differences Kevin... :T

So what are your thoughts of buying the 3805 off eBay. It will be a A stock item factory sealed US model. Do you think the US vs Canadian warrantee issues make it worth while to spend the extra $6-700 cdn to get a canadian warrantee?

[Andrew Pratt]

Bing please listen to the Rotel 1056 before plunking down your money on the Denon..i think Trev said they're available locally too and should be about the same price as the one's you've listed...plus all Rotel's have a 5 year warranty unlike Denon et. al...esp. if you purchase from the US.

[Trevor Schell]

Bing,,Don't buy it from the USA.
No warrenty, and just to delicate of a piece
to have bouncing around in a truck before it gets to
your door step. Also, you'll be paying a few large
bills for duty...etc

Did you check out KK for pricing..?
I can hook you up real good.

You sure are on a roll with upgrading!!
A new virus for you Bing!! :P

BTW,,If it's Audio delay you desire,,just watch your movies
from the Kitchen.. :P :P
:rofl:

[GregoriusM]

Bing:

I too have a Denon 3300 and have had great success with it.

However, I agree with Andrew. Check out the Rotel 1056 at 75 watts continuous with ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN. Rotel does not "pad" their ratings.

Denon, like many other manufacturers, gives you the output to the 2 front channels, then the center channel, and then the back 2 surround channels and then the back center channel(s).

You HAVE to listen to the Rotel before buying the 3805, although the 3805 is a very decent piece of equipment.

The Rotel is more musical and has all the bells and whistles that you will need.

And don't let that 75 watts throw you off. The Denon 3800 was putting out about 30-some watts into all channels when measured independently, while the Rotel puts out 75 watts into all channels. So, there you have it.

It has the audio delay and video upconversion.

It is 5.1, but allows for the addition of a nice 2-channel amp for the front speakers that will allow the possibility of even nicer 2-channel listening and you will be at 7.1.

Both are good receivers, but definitely DO NOT buy the 3805 until you've checked out the Rotel.

IMHO!

Greg 8)

[Bing Fung]

Hey Trev, using your recommendations for the Audio delay, I won;t beable to see the TV either, so it may work... NOT! :wedgie: :smackbutt:

I'll have a look at KK (although they don't like me there). Thanks for the offer of throwing your weight around. I'll let you know. It's not a for sure thing as I do have to upgrade my kitchen, but I though I woul djust slide that in as part of the upgrades :B

Andrew and Greg, I'll take the time to listen to the Rotel 1056 and look into it more. I must state however I'm not a really big fan of the Rotel 1056 styling. I hate the way all those tiny little buttons perched out front look. I know that that should not matter on a sonic level however asthetic wise it's really ugly. and I'm not so sure I would like wading through all those buttons.

Maybe in black it may look better?

[aud19]

Andrew and Greg, I'll take the time to listen to the Rotel 1056 and look into it more. I must state however I'm not a really big fan of the Rotel 1056 styling. I hate the way all those tiny little buttons perched out front look. I know that that should not matter on a sonic level however asthetic wise it's really ugly. and I'm not so sure I would like wading through all those buttons.

Maybe in black it may look better?

:E I was just starting to like you too Bing!.... :smackbutt: :lol:

OK besides the out of left field "Rotel = ugly" remarks.... Definately give it a listen, I think you'll be quite pleased :T I think you'll definately be a black rather than silver guy :

Jason

[Bing Fung]

:E I was just starting to like you too Bing!.... :smackbutt: :lol:

OK besides the out of left field "Rotel = ugly" remarks.... Definately give it a listen, I think you'll be quite pleased :T I think you'll definately be a black rather than silver guy :

Jason

Ha Ha, :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to imply the Rotel as Ugly, rather that I just don't care for that mega-mutitude tiny button look for myslef. I realize it carries the same styling as a Lexicon or and Anthem, but I like the cleaner looks of a System Like the Denon, Merridian, TAgs, Onkyos.. etc. I quite like the look 1098, but I'm not sure how the interface would work, or if I would like that. I like direct access buttons, so maybe the Rotel 1056 is the only way.. dunno :huh:

I quite like the look of the Silver Rotel units with the black sides. When it has a bunch of matching components, it is stunning to look at. It's just the silver would not go well with my system, and your right, I do prefer black.

Local Dealer wants

$2100 taxes included for a 1056 Available in Black
$3100 taxes included for a 1068 available in Black

None in stock (blk or Silv), but he expects them soon

[Bing Fung]

Wait a tick.... I suppose I did say the Rotel was "Ugly". My Bad :smackbutt:

Sorry, It's not ugly, rather it's just not my taste in styling

[GregoriusM]

Bing. Bing. Bing.

Smoked glass doors on your component stand and an RF remote if you don't like the styling but love the sound.

Bing. Bing. Bing. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Shame. Shame. Shame.

Style over substance? 8O

[Bing Fung]

Yup, thats me.... :B And I'm not ashamed to admit it!

Most so called professed Audio Files (yeah, it's a poke) will not admit that looks and looking good has a lot to do with their choices. Well I'm not ashamed to admit it.

I'm happy with the sound of my Denon now, and all I need is a Audio Delay, so why would I go spend BuKoo more dollars for something I don't like the looks of? Regardless of how much better somebody else may think it will sound. Ignorance can be bliss as well....

If you can honestly say that the look of any audio equipment has not factored into your choice in any way, then good for you. Your more serious about sound than I ever care to be.

I'm not saying I'm above chosing a Rotel for I don't like the looks, but it has a weighted value in my world, be it right or wrong by you guys. :evil:

At the end of the day I have to be happy, right? :B

Besides, I have always liked Bose 901's even though they didn't look good or were not the popular choice in opinion. :W

[Andrew Pratt]

I'll be the first to admit looks do count for me in my gear purchase choices...luckily for me I like the Rotels IMO the black Rotel's look nicer and less busy then the silver ones but that just me...but hey it could be worse you could be looking at NAD's :E

[aud19]

Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to imply the Rotel as Ugly...

No hard feelings Bing old-buddy Still give it a listen and try to have a look at a black one. As his Gregorius'ness pointed out, you can always "hide" it but I doubt you'd find the black one THAT repulsive :B

Jason

[Bing Fung]

Hey, I'm warming up to the look of the 1056 and I bet in black it looks pretty nice. : Like I said, i actually like the Rotel Silver on Black, however I'm just not so fond of all those buttons on the receiver.





The top Pre/Pro I like, the bottom.... Meh... In Black they would be more stealth and blend away.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the look of the Rotel 996 (or some model number like that) when I bought my Denon 3300. I actually wanted the Rotel more for I liked the looks much more, however I was dissapointed in the actual sound performance when compared it to the Denon 3300.

So yes I'm a slave to fashion, but sonic quality does take a presidence over style. However given that these are both entry mid Receivers, I would bet you would find proponents for both camps of either Denon 3805 or Rotel 1056, both claiming they like the sound of one over the other.

Andrew, your 1098 is a Beautiful looking unit. I like the elegance of the 2 knobs with a minimal of buttons. :T Agreed Andrew, NAD's are with out a doubt one of the stylings that I don't care for, However I certainly respect them for their components and sonic purity.


I will honestly listen to the Rotels cause I do want a good sounding receiver :T And I can bend like the Willow :B

[Bing Fung]

Bing. Bing. Bing.

Smoked glass doors on your component stand and an RF remote if you don't like the styling but love the sound.

Bing. Bing. Bing. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Shame. Shame. Shame.

Style over substance? 8O

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :W

Oh, the humanity of the mis-informed hey Gregor? :W

[Trevor Schell]

I must state however I'm not a really big fan of the Rotel 1056 styling. I hate the way all those tiny little buttons perched out front look. I know that that should not matter on a sonic level however asthetic wise it's really ugly. and I'm not so sure I would like wading through all those buttons.

Ha!Ha!
However, I feel the same way.
The looks of the gear is important to me.
I always try to have the best of both worlds.
If it came down to one choice though,,the performance
would over ride.

The Rotel in Silver is a bit "Butt Ugly"
in my mind.
Don't forget about Parasound, they have some real nice sounding
equipment.. :B

[Bam!]

Hey guys!

Trev!, Bing : I own the 1056....in SILVER : : :

I like it so :


It sings so :

So you like colored sound like Denon ain ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ahhh don`t get your panties bunched up I am just kidding....it`s not like Rotel is the best receiver I have ever owned or heard...!!!! :lol: :

However all my gear is black....so silver does really stick out ops: I love it!

[Bing Fung]

Trev, I didn't know Parasound made Receivers... I 'll have a look.
Oh BTW, you're funny :W :wedgie:

Bam, Hey we like what we like.. Enjoy! :T

What about the 1068 Prepro?

The RSP-1068 integrates into advanced custom-designed systems with an RS-232 port, 12-volt “trigger” outputs, discrete on/off remote control command codes, multi-source/multi-zone operation with composite video, group delay settings, and a fully programmable universal remote control.

Is that Group Delay the Audio Delay I so desparately need?



I could use my Bryston and Mono blocks for amplification until I could afford to buy the 1095

[Trevor Schell]

Bing,,

Trev, I didn't know Parasound made Receivers... I 'll have a look.

Think Halo!! :wink:

[GregoriusM]

Bing. Bing. Bing.

The Denon is a great unit. The Rotel is a great unit.

If you don't like the buttons on the Rotel, a little duct tape will cover those puppies! 8O

I'm happy with my 3300, and doubt that I will change it in the near future due to finances. It does its job well for me.

If you like the 3300, you'll enjoy the 3805, althought the sound is not identical.

So, you can still be in STYLE by picking something that SOUNDS good to you and FUNCTIONS the way you want, even if you don't pick a SILVER receiver! :W

he he he

Anyway, if you're looking at Denon, it's fine receiver and the front channels can be beefed up later if need be with a nice 2-channel amp. For the price Trev can get it for you, the 3805 looks like a nice buy!

G'or

[Bing Fung]

Bing. Bing. Bing.
If you don't like the buttons on the Rotel, a little duct tape will cover those puppies! 8O

G'or

Gregor, I love all your Kluge type fixes...... heh heh.. NOT!

Oh yeah, duct tape on a new $2000 peice of equipment is really appealing :rofl: There goes the style police in me again :W

Trev, the Parasound is kind cool looking, but it's Silver :twisted: Crap, I'm really getting annoyed with all this retro Silver stuff :twisted: It almost swigs too far in the stylized area :smackbutt: It won;t match anything I own except my Motorola Hi def cable terminal :P



I'm kinda digging on the Rotel 1068 Idea, as long as that is an adjustable audio delay, is available in black and is resonably price....

[aud19]

What about the 1068 Prepro? ... I could use my Bryston and Mono blocks for amplification until I could afford to buy the 1095

I Vote for this!!!!! :banana:

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

Bing it sounds like you and I have similar taste in AV gear...I really like the simplistic look of the early Rotels's as well...I'd love a pre pro with as little on the front as possible...I guess that's one reason I like my 1098 with the LCD off...there's no clutter on it. I like some of the Marantz units for the same reason and appreciate the look of some units that hide a lot of the buttons behind a metal door etc.

Still I think you'd like the black units more then the silver as the buttons dissapear more readily and yes the pre pro is a little less bulky looking.

[Bing Fung]

Jason, don't hold back, tell me how you really feel :W

The more I think about it, the more I think I may well go separates... I can get the 1068 for a decent price in town here. The 1098 is rude money for some reason or another. Apprently the Rotel rep stated that the 1068 is the same as the 1098 with out the TFT. :roll:

Dunno how accurate that is, but I do like the simplicity of the 1068. It's just the 1098 is soooo sexy :

Andrew, I think so. I like the minimalistic look, as long as it doesn't intefere with function. I have always admires Bang & Olfsen system designs, however I would never buy one as my primary system just because the money paid is more in asthetics I think.... A balance has to be stuck. I love the look of the the 1098 :T

[Glen]

Quote: What about the 1068 Prepro? ... I could use my Bryston and Mono blocks for amplification until I could afford to buy the 1095

I Vote for this!!!!! :banana:

I second that one..

As for me, I was dead set on getting the black Rotel when I went to get mine - but they only had the silver in a sealed box ( the blacks were opened/demo units ). So I went with the silver. I've adjusted to it and really quit like the look now. My vote is for the Rotel for a receiver or seperates. I have nothing against the Denon ( it was at the top of my list at one point ), but at the price zone your looking at - I'd say the Rotel's win hands down.

In the end - I'd say listen to them first and then decide.

[Trevor Schell]

Bing,,

Did you buy it yet!!?

I say road trip and demo night at Audio Warehouse.. :B

[Trevor Schell]

Bing,,If you go Rotel,,here is what you need..


Rotel 1098


Rotel 1090 (380Wx2)
-Use to drive the mains


Rotel 1095 (200Wx5)
-Use to Bi-amp the center , then 2 channels to drive the rears.
One channel to power a rear center.

I think you would be pleased with the sonics and presentation of this set-up.:yesnod: :wink:

[Bing Fung]

Bing,,If you go Rotel,,here is what you need..

I think you would be pleased with the sonics and presentation of this set-up.:yesnod: :wink:

Trev, I agree :yesnod: Now you want to cut me a check to cover it :W

Glen, I actually do like the silver on black, and think it looks very nice with a rack full of Rotel only equipment.. Alas I can't imagine my rack like that and prefer the basic black.

I'm all for demos, however I think in the end they don't really prove a lot of things, esp in the case of a Pre/Pro. The speakers will be different, the amps will be different, the CD player will be different, the room will be different... About the only thing that could be assertained from a demo of the 1068 is; Do I like the operational aspects of it?

[Bing Fung]

How about a black Tag Mclaren AV32R-EX? :yesnod:

[Trevor Schell]

Sweet!! :T

[GregoriusM]

I walked into my local audio store today - Advance Electronics - where I buy almost all of my gear - so that I could have a look and listen to the 3805.

I didn't have much time so I just cued a movie. Sounded pretty good, but I wasn't familiar with the speakers and didn't have time to hook them up to the same speakers that I have at home.

I thought it looked VERY impressive looked in the brushed silver...... but, that's another story.

It was retailing at $1899.

My audio guy said to me that it's a nice piece but that I should be looking more at this receiver - he pointed to the Rotel 1056 - retailing at $1999.

I said did he also think it was better sounding all around. He said there is a NOTICEABLE difference in his mind.

So, obviously I'm going to be doing some serious A/B'ing in the next while just to see how good these new dang Rotels are.

I don't NEED 7.1, but there are some things that I do need, so I'll do a feature comparison.

I like the look of both receivers.

So, we'll see what happens. I may become a Rotelian someday down the road.

Who knows.

Anyway, just a thought that the audio people at Advance generally put Rotel ahead of Denon in sound. Subjective, I know, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Oh yeah, and the 5 year warranty on the Rotel versus the 2 year warranty on the Denon. Makes you go hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Greg

[Bing Fung]

Gregor, thanks for your observations and opinions.

I suppose it's always easy to become a Convert to another shinny peice of equipment.

Trev :T :T

[GregoriusM]

Bing

Not so easy for me. It takes a lot for me to shell out the dollars unless I am totally satisfied with what I'm getting.

The dollars are scarce in these here parts, so if/when I upgrade, it will be with a lot of thought, listening, etc.

I do some listening from time to time kind of like a hobby, so certain receivers are already scratched from my list.

I will actually be waiting for the Denon 2805 to show up later this year. It is on a Japanese website and will have 100 watts/channel (rated the "Denon" way), video upconversion, auto-eq with included microphone, etc. It will not have DDSC processing, but will certainly be an upgrade from my Denon 3300.

However, I'm not sold on any particular receiver right now. I'm going over to Andrews on Saturday (later today actually) and will listen to his system.

It won't give me a terribly accurate idea of anything other than great sound because I could never afford that type of equipment, but I hope to pick Andrews knowledge and discuss HT, etc. in order to make a more informed decision especially with reference to Rotel.

I would have picked the Rotel receiver over my Denon 3 1/2 years ago if Rotel wasn't having a problem with their chip sticking to DD and DTS on DVD's. It would revert to ProLogic.

Had there been no problem, I'd be the owner of a Rotel receiver right now.

So, I'm already a "Rotel sound" convert. But, Rotel has new receivers out now, as does Denon, so I'll still want to A/B anything that I would look at buying.

What is so great is that my entire speaker system is set up at Advance Electronics in the same room as the major receivers that they have, so I can have a better idea of the sound I'll get - short of bringing each receiver home, whch I will definitely do before final purchase.

I will no doubt be purchasing the Denon 2200 DVD player at the same time and would want to demo it in my home along with whichever receiver I look at.

Anyway, my main comment was that it isn't all that easy for me to fall in love with another new shiny piece of equipment. The rest was a result of my current sufferent from diarrhea - of the verbal kind! 8O

Gregor

[Bing Fung]

Gregor, At the time I bought my receiver I was looking at the Rotel, Yamaha and Denon. I picked the denon for it had the features I liked and wanted the most. I auditioned all 3 and I would say that they all had their merits, however I liked the Denon the most in features and sound. Unfortunately the 3 Receivers were at 3 different dealers so A/B was next to impossible. Plus they all had different speakers than what i had at the time.

Quite honesty, I'll admit that I'm different in that yes I like to sit down an mull over everything, do painstaking listening tests, however in the end sonic nuance differences are just not that critical for me these days. I use to be just like that were I listened to everything exhaustively before buying, that was my stereo days. Now a days I look for features, specifications and can quite honestly say I would buy something unheard as long as it has a good name, has garnered good reviews, has all the features I want. Most of my research is done up front, with the listening test as the final test. However we can't always hear something so in that case I woul djust go with what I know.

Take for instance a Bryston amp. I would not have to hear one and I would buy one site unseen. Same goes for a Lexicon or Tag Mclaren pre/pro. I would not have to hear one to know that I want one. A denon 5800, If the price was right I would buy one of those with out having to hear one. same goes for the Denon 3805. In the end yes listening tests are important, but for me I think thay all sound good to begin with, so really a person could not go wrong with any of the choices.

I was looking at the Rotels and no dealer has the 1068 in stock, however I would buy one of those sound unheard, just because it has the features I want and will do what I want. Same goes for the 1095 amp, although I have heard it and I would always like to hear something before I bought it, I would buy that sound unheard as well if I really wanted it, just on reputation and specifications alone.

When I bought my Denon 2200, I watched afew minutes of a DVD as a demo (britney spears music video : ), that was it... Nothing else... Most of my time was spend dickering with the audio store on price. When I got it home I was not dissapointed.

Auditioning use to be a hobby for me too, but these days it's weighted value has less value to me, for I know I would be more than happy with any of the above choices, so yes i have changed. Sonics is important, but given the field of choices, I feel there are other things more important to me, such as funtionality, ergonomics, specifications, looks.

Put another way, sonic quality is important to me, however right now more important to me is having a unit with an audio delay. The sync errors I currently see detracts more from my pleasure than any sonic differences between a Rotel, Denon, what have you.... and I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over the sonic differences, however I am losing a lot of sleep over this sync lag...


Have fun at Andrews :T

[calli]

arcam avr300

Hi,

Arcam is coming with the avr300 it is a 7.1 receiver but you can also use the extra amps for the fronts. Especially stereo is very good. Dont look at the worse englisch.

greetings from Holland,

[GregoriusM]

Calli:

Where can I get some information on that Arcam receiver?

[David Meek]

Hi Calli, welcome to The Guide! :later:

Gregorius, here's some info on the AVR300.

[GregoriusM]

Thanks, David.

I'm not that familiar with Arcam products. The AVR300 doesn't look like it has anything out of the ordinary.

Are Arcam products higher end than say a Denon 3805 or Rotel 1056?

Greg

[David Meek]

I'm not that famililar with them, but I'd rate them a little above the level of the Denon and about the same as the Rotel.

[David Meek]

Calli, your english is very good. It is MUCH better than my attempts at Dutch. :B

[Bing Fung]

Anyone know if the Arcams are available in Canada?

[GregoriusM]

Bing:

Here's the Canadian distributor. I haven't checked, but the home page has a link for Canadian dealers.

Emerald Audio

G.

[Bing Fung]

Excellent!

Thanks Gregor :T