Current Crop of HDTV's may not support HDTV DVD..?!?

[Bing Fung]

Judging from this article, it looks as if HDTV's sold today may not be able to receive signals from HDTV-DVD's that are to be produced in the next year or so. The HDTV DVD's will produce an encrypted signal that current HDTVs can not decode.

Read About It Here

Any truth to this?




Bing

[JonMarsh]

Not just any truth, but essentially the complete truth.

Those of us with analog HDTV capable monitors will only be able to use them with STB's which output high def analog signals - which will be a vanishing breed, shortly.

Now, provided that there will exist computers that playback HD-DVD, (just as there are software players for PC's for standard DVD), then you may be able to support an older display.

But content protection and user rights (partciularly so called "fair use" are clearly at odds with each other, and the DMCA and all the new DRM technologies all seem aimed at circumventing what most of us think of as reasonable use. Even existing STB's have view and copy management bits enabled in them, but hardly publicized; it's why even early players such as the RCA DTC100 have fine print about "user may not be able to view all high resolution programs in their original format". It is possible for the content providers to turn on bits which enable only short term storage on the local system, no record under any conditions, and no playback unless through an encrypted display.

Welcome to the 21st century. Pay per play.

As if I'm going to rig up some way to record analog hi def RGB of an HD DVD from my computer or STB DVD! Only the "real" pirates could do that (and not even with any consumer gear, obviously), and they'll get around the encryption crap by going right into one of the displays, anyway.

:evil:


-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Lex]

Wow, looks like a positive for holding off on HDTV as long as I have. Now, I wait a bit longer, lol. Actually, planned to wait anyway, gonna stick with the old PRO-119 as long as she kicks, or I win the lottery one.

Real bummer for early adopters though.

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[Sonnie Parker]

So unless I got a bunch of extra cash burning a hole in my pocket (which I don't), don't go out and buy a HDTV compatible RPTV?

I'm confused as usual. None of the 16:9 RPTV's today will work in the future?

Questions, questions, always questions. :? :? :?






SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

[Burke Strickland]

None of the 16:9 RPTV's today will work in the future?

Of course they'll work in the future... just not with any HD source. :<(

Burke

[Chip]

Well, for me, i'm still glad i jumped onto the HDTV wagon... i'm just glad i spent pretty much the minmal for a HD ready set (Mits 46807). By next year or, the year after, i'll be ready for another set. We'll always be chasing technology... That's the fun addicting part ain't it?! Lol..




Chip Engle


"Concrete ain't a spectator sport"


<a href="http://www.htguide.com/bilder/index.cfm?fuseaction=arkivbilder&userid=0&selected userid=336" target="_blank">My HT

[David Meek]

:evil: A response from the "deliriously happy up to this point" HD-ready RPTV camp:

!!!!! I'm the owner of a Pioneer Elite Pro 610 HD-ready RPTV and was looking forward to many years of happy HD-DVD (when available) and HD-TV viewing. I went out and spent $5K US on this excellent unit and now these money-grubbing good-for-nothings want to render that investment invalid for anything other than standard-definition (480x720 pixel) DVD's or NTSC. My purchase was made in good faith and counted on the FULL use of the cablilities of this set for a long period of time. If there is not a workable compromise developed to allow me (and everyone else in the same situation) to use the equipment we have invested in, then these studio/broadcasting corporation execs have violated my trust and put in jeapordy their revenue stream via me not purchasing anything video (equipment or media) for the forseable future. I'm NOT kidding here. :evil:

[/rant off] - for the moment.

edited for content by DWM




David - HTGuide flunky
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[AndrewM]

Well, I know Mitsubishi has "promised" support for any new standard for their existing analog HD sets. But who knows how they are going to be able to do that, they are either going to have to make a digital to analog converter (which will be greatly frowned upon) or they will have to retro-fit TV sets with the new technology. I doubt it would be as easy as plugging in a new card, so maybe a service call is in order? Or worse, having to send your set back to a Mitsubishi center to have it converted (which will be a huge hassle for people).

Any other manufactures promise the ability to upgrade? This is going to be very bad if they do go through with it all, HDTV's have been sold for almost 10 yrs now, in the mainstream for what 4-5yrs. If you buy one today, I don't think you could really call yourself an early adopter anymore.

Andrew

[JonMarsh]

You know, they're left some "wiggle room", becuase they've put aspects of these new features in place in the existing STB's, but haven't turned them on. Now, for example, if turned on with an existing STB, like the DTC100, you can still watch the program, but in some cases only through a down converted output- such as 480i. If the broadcaster isn't in the mood to make things difficult, then full fidelity output will be available on the analog outputs.

BUT, the plan is to stop making gear with analog hi def outputs.

Mits has left room for an upgrade module which could include the digital signal and encrypt decode. Most manufacturers have no provision for this, so your Pioneer RPTV, or Tom's 400Q, or the 10HT I lust after won't work with this newer gear, because adapter boxes to output analog signals are verboten.

Will the down convert bits be enabled for the analog gear? A lot depends on the paranoia of the studios, and what happens in the next year or so. Realistcially, they don't have any copy protection problem with existing DVD, EXCEPT for the "coroporate" pirates in the Far East, and that hasn't affected sales or profits in the US. So that's a straw man of sorts.

For HD DVD, they will be much more paranoid, becuase a GOOD HD DVD transfer could be better than what you see at the average cineplex, and they don't want that floating around. I don't think they really want the consumers to own it; they'd much rather do pay per view, if they had the choice.

I figure the only hope for me is HTPC, still. Becuase the PC is a natural playback instrument for variable resolution DVD, and I already normally watch DVD at 1280X720; with true HD DVD, the picture will just be sharper. But the movie industry has a problem with the "lack" of macrovision encoding on RGB outputs.

I'd love to see them try to justify their macrovision encoded 480P DVD's by all the copying that would otherwise occur with a 480P signal in the clear- since anyone can get that off a PC, including adding on a component converter if they want for under $200!

Is the picture becoming clearer? The studios fought Beta max and VHS tooth and nail, and only later when they were making millions hand over fist did they really get comfortable with and exploit the VCR market. Their myopia hasn't changed, just the technological means to which they're willing to go to back it up.

The latest I've heard is that Valenti wants all PC's equipped as DRM (Digital Rights Management) devices (in a recent speech in Philadelphia), in hardware and software, to make it safe for Hollywood to distribute (crap, low res, playable only on your one pc) movies over the internet. Gee, guys, did you notice that Micro$loft was just awarded a patent for a DRM OS? Coincidence?

As justification, Valenti cites "some 350,000-plus films are being downloaded illegally every day," (who? where? when? anyone you know? do that many people even have broadband in the US? what a maroon... or what a lying maroon....).

I don't want to talk about this anymore, or I'll have to go back on bloodpressure meds....


-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[David Meek]

I'll have to go back on bloodpressure meds....

I wonder if we can get a "bulk discount"? :




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
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[George Bellefontaine]

I don't own an HDTV as yet, and I'm not being smug about it. This whole thing stinks and it starts with the studios. And it goes back to the early day of VHS tape recorders when the studios fought to restrict the right of consumers to record for their own personal use.
When will they wake up and smell the roses ? The average Joe isn't a pirate.




My Homepage!

[David Meek]

FWIW, as far as recording of shows and movies, I use a TIVO, and that's for time-shifting - only. Once it's watched it's dumped.

they don't have any copy protection problem with existing DVD, EXCEPT for the "coroporate" pirates in the Far East, and that hasn't affected sales or profits in the US.

The average Joe isn't a pirate.

My point exactly. Go after the person(s) that are breaking the law. Don't punish the people that are using the system responsibly.

Grrrrr. :evil:




David - HTGuide flunky
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[JonMarsh]

Well, guys, here it starts.

Sony's contribution to this mess. And they're trying to sell it as if it was a feature that was going to bring you more, not less.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/2021

-Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[David Meek]

Here's a copy of a letter I submitted to Pioneer regarding this issue and asking how they will deal with it. I'll keep you posted on any replies. :?

To whom it may concern,

I am the proud owner of one of Pioneer's Pro Elite 610 58" RPTVs. I very recently became aware of a movement to restrict or even ban the analog output of high-definition signals from set-top decoders to our HD-ready televisions. I am extremely concerned that my $5,000+ investment in your product will be rendered useless if this movement is successful due to the design of the set, which has ONLY analog inputs. Please tell me what, if any, steps you are taking to insure that I (and all others in this situation) will be able to view HDTV and HD-DVD source material for the life of my 610.

I hope that Pioneer will take an industry leadership stance in this issue by doing whatever is necessary to provide their current customers access to HD-material.

Sincerely,

David Meek

Wish us all luck!




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
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[JonMarsh]

And here's an example of how are politicians are selling us out- there notion of integrity, I think, is that when they're bought, they stay bought.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/24262.html

Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Sonnie Parker]

Great letter David,

I look forward to their response.

I'll be one of those that will be looking at what manufacturers plan on doing since I haven't taken' the plunge yet.






SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

[SiliGoose]

So, what is the digital connection method going to be? Have they even decided upon one? Firewire?




-Sili

[David Meek]

Sili,

The proferred method appears to be something called DVI (Digital Video Interface (?)). That's about all the detail I can recall at the moment - not enough coffee yet.




David - HTGuide flunky
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[Greg Stone]

I was seriously thinking about getting a HDTV this month. Now, nope. Will have to wait and see how this thing shakes out.

Why does this hobby have to be so hard to keep up with at times??




Greg's DVD's

[Bing Fung]

Looks like this has seriously struck a nerve on Jon 8O :LOL:

It is dastardly if they proceed with it!

That last link Jon provided is already in the begining stages with certain CD's not being able to be played in my PC's CD, Bastards!


Keep us informed David to the response you may get, best of luck.




Bing

[David Meek]

Hi all,

No response from Pioneer yet. I'll see if I can prod them a little.




David - HTGuide flunky
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