Another reason to avoid Bose

[Russ L]

Whos married to who?

[Jraducha]

I almost wanna give it alisten to see just how bad it could be 8O Thats a shame with the Escalade. So whats good in car audio...Focal?....-Russ

Best in car audio these days is Dynaudio...very sweet..

[Russ L]

Best in car audio these days is Dynaudio...very sweet..

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have to give them a listen -Russ

[dyazdani]

Seas and Focal do also have some nice car stuff... wish I was in my car enough to do more critical listening, or purchasing :lol:

[aud19]

Seas and Focal do also have some nice car stuff... wish I was in my car enough to do more critical listening, or purchasing :lol:

For car audio components you can't beat Alpine in my ears opinions Lot's of speakers to choose from though :T

[Brandon B]

wish I was in my car enough to do more critical listening,

Wow. Theres a wish you don't hear where I live.

BB

[Russ L]

Wow. Theres a wish you don't hear where I live.

:lol: Guess a great car audio system is a must in L.A.! Yet another reason to avoid Bose. Being a small town prairie boy the freeways in Montreal almost did me in. L.A. must be twice that :sn :driver: -Russ

[dyazdani]

Wow. Theres a wish you don't hear where I live.

BB

Well, then I could justify some new car audio toys! I don't wish for long commutes or bad traffic.

[Brandon B]

L.A. must be twice that -Russ

Yeah. Twice.

There is traffic in L.A. in some areas almost 24/7. Nobody measures drives in miles, it's always minutes and hours. Miles are too variable.

Land of the automobile and all that.

BB

[Alloroc]

Best in car audio these days is Dynaudio...very sweet..

Agreed. I have them in my Volvo - a factory fit option.....

[Alloroc]

This is interesting (and all) but I would pick a different B&W product to go after using this line of argument... Because...

The 802D cabinet requires a special machine to bend the 25mm of wood and hold it in place - to create the solid wood curved body - instead of gluing 4 pieces of wood together - as well as multiple C&C machine work..

Also consider the huge metal plinth (stand thing) on the bottom (very unique and I don't ever see anything like that in that price range)

Not to mention the Marlan Head top enclosure - which is a material very much like super dense ceramic - who's doing cool stuff like that?

And the Diamond tweeter diaphragm they have made for them by DeBeers - considering that 98% of all speaker mfgr's do not make their own tweeter or - B&W making their tweeter and then getting a very expensive diaphragm material is special - consider that fact that there are $20,000.oo dollar speaker out there with Audax ($39.00) tweeters in them!!!!

Now lets get to the bass driver material in the 802D - Rohacell - an extremely expensive material - that no other speaker mfger's bother to pay the price for - largely because most of them buy their bass drivers off the shelf as well - but the point is Rohacell is very cool and extremely powerful bass driver material - A nice touch by B&W - because they didn't have to at that price - because nobody else does!!!

If Wilson made the 802D it would retail for $29,000.oo (IMO)
Based on all of the above

I might go after the PV1 subwoofer or maybe the FPM6 wall speaker... for better results from that argument...

'nuther interesting factoid - a DeBeers Diamond tweeter roughly costs $2000 a pair for the manufacturer to buy! And that's bulk!

[spyboy]

Yeah guys, Bose is just fabulous at marketing. Believe it or forget it, but Bose has the highest brand trust of ANY tech company out there and by a huge margin.

See this:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...highlight=bose

I don't own anything Bose, but my sister has the Bose noise cancelling headphones and likes them. Bose products are used in all kinds of commercial as well as consumer applications much to the satisfaction of their owners. Bose is an example of a superbly well oiled exercise in the American way of doing business.

[Race Car Driver]

No highs, no lows, must be Bose.

That is all.

[fauzigarib]

I don't own anything Bose, but my sister has the Bose noise cancelling headphones and likes them. Bose products are used in all kinds of commercial as well as consumer applications much to the satisfaction of their owners. Bose is an example of a superbly well oiled exercise in the American way of doing business.

Spyboy,

Well put! I agree with you 100% that they are able to sell better than most of their competition.

Just wanted to bring out an interesting tid bit... I heard (somewhere, I can't remember the source, but I'm sure it can be found on the net) that the noise-cancelling headphones of Bose's are the results of a failed defense contract, where Bose failed to meet the specifications outlined to them for headphones for fighter pilots. Hence, the marketing machine kicks in again, and sends it out into the unsuspecting public!

Will get back if I find a link to verify this.

Later,

Fauzi

[dyazdani]

I heard the same thing somewhere...

[fauzigarib]

Nope...

... couldn't find any story on the net to corroborate the Noise Cancellation thing... Though I coulda sworn...

I'm still at it though!!! :twisted:

-F

[spyboy]

fauzigarib

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the story on the Noise Cancelling headphones was true, however, when was the last time you bought ANYTHING that met military spec?

With all due respect, I completely disagree with your characterization, "sends it out on an unsuspecting public". Where on earth would you get the idea that the public has any interest in whether the headphones meet military spec? My sister wouldn't even know what that meant, nor do 80% of the public. The point is, people like their Bose products. How do you think they got that incredible brand trust rating? Of course hobbiests dislike Bose, but that is not the target market. Meanwhile, Bose is making money hand over fist. I simply try not to let the wildly popular Bose bashing cloud my thinking

[Alaric]

fauzigarib

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the story on the Noise Cancelling headphones was true, however, when was the last time you bought ANYTHING that met military spec?

With all due respect, I completely disagree with your characterization, "sends it out on an unsuspecting public". Where on earth would you get the idea that the public has any interest in whether the headphones meet military spec? My sister wouldn't even know what that meant, nor do 80% of the public. The point is, people like their Bose products. How do you think they got that incredible brand trust rating? Of course hobbiests dislike Bose, but that is not the target market. Meanwhile, Bose is making money hand over fist. I simply try not to let the wildly popular Bose bashing cloud my thinking

And I try not to let profitability based on marketing cloud my judgement. Hyundai makes more money than Ferrari - that doesn't mean squat to anyone but their stockholders. The sound quality:dollar ratio of Blose is near the bottom of the heap. I have a pair of $50 Sony headphones that stomp all over the Blose earmuffs. Brand trust isn't to be entirely discounted however...look how popular Thalidomide was.....

[Alaric]

P.S. Military spec vacuum tubes are quite popular in many audio circles. Of course , Manley , McIntosh , Magnumdynalab , don't have the home shopping network sewn up yet....

[Brandon B]

I've got mil spec wire in my balanced power unit.

At this point, I would like to say I think pretty much every one of Bose products are great. They are just priced insanely. And marketed in a completely disingenuous fashion. I think think the Acoustimass cubes and bass module are a pretty spiffy setup if you aren't looking for high performance, and if they had a 40% margin, which would put a 5 speaker + bass setup at around $80.

The headphones would go for $40 or so.

It is their claims of tech and their pricing that really earns them my ill will.

BB

[eddiem67]

Agreed. I have them in my Volvo - a factory fit option.....

Take a listen to Seas Reference Series, these are incredible, and for a HU Pioneer P9 combo, and of course McIntosh amps...now thats a system.

[fauzigarib]

fauzigarib

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the story on the Noise Cancelling headphones was true, however, when was the last time you bought ANYTHING that met military spec?

With all due respect, I completely disagree with your characterization, "sends it out on an unsuspecting public". Where on earth would you get the idea that the public has any interest in whether the headphones meet military spec? My sister wouldn't even know what that meant, nor do 80% of the public. The point is, people like their Bose products. How do you think they got that incredible brand trust rating? Of course hobbiests dislike Bose, but that is not the target market. Meanwhile, Bose is making money hand over fist. I simply try not to let the wildly popular Bose bashing cloud my thinking

Spyboy,

LOL!!! If you read the earlier part of the thread, what you said is exactly what I was saying. Scroll up, perhaps to the first page... I really admire Bose for making money the way they are, and gaining the trust of the public the way they are.

I think if a company can provide the public with any sort of satisfaction (pride of ownership, good sound, eccentric designs, whatever) and are able to capitalize on it, I don't think the company should be bashed.

My sole purpose of bringing up the headphone thing was because you mentioned the noise cancellation phones, and I remembered having read an interesting story somewhere... Please don't think I'm bashing Bose because of that.

Running my own business, I think it's an amazing turn around if (assuming it were true) the government cancels your order for xyz reason, and you can turn around and sell the same product to another market entirely, and still profit from it.

Rereading my post, I realize the tone was a little sarcastic, but it was not meant as that.



Once again, well put!

Fauzi

[dinyaar]

Why Bash Bose?

Hi guys,

I really wonder why there is so much negative said about the company and its products. As i read in the threads above most of us have at some point bought a bose product including me.(BOSE 301 in 1993). Had it partnered with a harman int amp and it gave me years of hassle free sound. I later gave it to a young cousin who has it and listens to it even today!

Of course there are far better speakers that offer a hell of a lot more but the fact that Bose is still selling and still continues to be profitable speaks a lot too. I guess there is a market for everything.
Just my two rupee opinion.

[fauzigarib]

Hi guys,

I really wonder why there is so much negative said about the company and its products. As i read in the threads above most of us have at some point bought a bose product including me.(BOSE 301 in 1993). Had it partnered with a harman int amp and it gave me years of hassle free sound. I later gave it to a young cousin who has it and listens to it even today!

Of course there are far better speakers that offer a hell of a lot more but the fact that Bose is still selling and still continues to be profitable speaks a lot too. I guess there is a market for everything.
Just my two rupee opinion.

Dinyaar,

EXACTLY!!! I wonder about the same thing. We'll figure it out one of these days!

BTW, rupee? Which rupee, Indian or Pakistani?

-Fauzi

[Brandon B]

I really wonder why there is so much negative said about the company and its products

3 reasons:

1. They go to the extreme of marketing their low end equipment as the best in the world.
2. Clueless people accept this market as fully or partially true and rub those of us with actual quality systems the wrong way by comparing Bose' low end stuff to ours, sometimes claiming that we are the disingenuous or snobby ones.
3. Things like this trademark suit, being militant about words from the english language being used ina a natural way, as well as other IP based transgressions such as patenting techniques developed by others long before Bose saw fit to use them.

BB

[MarcoV]

Bose...

Overrated and overpriced...

[fauzigarib]

Let's pick on Bose again!

Hey all,

This topic was dead for a little while... sooooo, I thought, why not??!?!

I remember reading sometime ago that the AM series speakers don't cover the entire frequency range for HT or music.

I'll try to look up the site where I saw this, but I was wondering...

... if you ran a frequency sweep on an AM system, would there actually be silence within a certain frequency range?

Just wondering...

Fauzi

[aud19]

I remember reading sometime ago that the AM series speakers don't cover the entire frequency range for HT or music.

True

[cobbpa]

I can't remember exactly, but I know Consumer Reports didn't pick Bose as a top performer for HTIB configurations..I believe Denon was tops?

But really, how many products can we draw parallels with? How many of us have gone to a friend's house to check out his new LCD or Plasma which is turned up way too bright and we still have to hear "Man, how vivid is this picture?" Or someone's SES Taurus "Feel that pick up & go?!" Not to bash the Taurus, but (if I remember right) the SES is the 'sportiest' model. Ok, maybe I am knocking on the SES a little, but I used to have an SHO, so I feel like i can . Regardless, I think the reason Bose is so despised against those who have done their research IS the customer pride. Have you ever tried to hint to a Bose fan that it's not really that great? It doesn't go well. I'm not sure how Bose compares against other companies in their price range like Polk & such, but I'd like to know.

These things said. I'm a 3rd year marketing major. If I was offered a job by Bose...no way would I turn it down. As long as I could keep / buy my own speakers .

[dyazdani]

These things said. I'm a 3rd year marketing major. If I was offered a job by Bose...no way would I turn it down. As long as I could keep / buy my own speakers .

I'm sure you'd get a company discount though! :lol:

[Brandon B]

Fauzi -

Some info here.

BB

[Chris D]

One car I'm looking at now, the Audi Q7, uses a Bose system. Could I really do that???

[Brandon B]

Their automotive stuff is not nearly as far out of the price/performance box as their home stuff. Wouldn't bother me.

BB

[Burke Strickland]

GIven the generally mediocre state of auto audio, by comparison with the "competition", Bose in a car may not be such a bad thing. Now, with or without Bose, I'd think twice about that AUDI... beautifully engineered, except for reliability. Mine was in the shop more than it was in my driveway. I wouldn't have another one unless they kept a reliable loaner -- IOW, something like a Honda or Toyota -- on standby at all times just for me. :>)

Burke

[PewterTA]

Why is this thread this long???

There should be only one post to this thread...

Reason = Bose.

[Chris D]

I think Bose send out subliminal radiation to all our brains, forcing us to repeatedly post in this thread to give them more free advertising. (which they'll sue us for, charging US for typing the company name)

Isn't cynicism great?

[Brandon B]

What a bunch of Bose-o's we are.

[spyboy]

Do you guys have any idea of the scope of this company? $1,000 headphones for aviation, and a whole lot more. You owe it to yourself to hold your nose and look at their web site.

How bout these noise reducing headphones for Abrams M1-A1 tank crews:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/professional/military/crewman.jsp

"In 1993, Bose became the first company to supply an active noise reduction system to the US Army for their armored vehicle crews..."

Bose is not just making little sub/sat systems, though they sure have a goodly share of the market. These people are making an effort in a lot of areas.

I just wish I had a piece of the action.

[Alaric]

Do you guys have any idea of the scope of this company? $1,000 headphones for aviation, and a whole lot more. You owe it to yourself to hold your nose and look at their web site.

How bout these noise reducing headphones for Abrams M1-A1 tank crews:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/professional/military/crewman.jsp

"In 1993, Bose became the first company to supply an active noise reduction system to the US Army for their armored vehicle crews..."

Bose is not just making little sub/sat systems, though they sure have a goodly share of the market. These people are making an effort in a lot of areas.

I just wish I had a piece of the action.

Quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality..

[spyboy]

Yes, too bad our tank crews are not getting quality goods.

[David Meek]

How do you know they aren't?

[spyboy]

David

The reference is to the fact that Bose was the first company to supply the Army with noise reducing headphones for tank and other armored vehicle crews. So, when alaric says "quantity doesn't equal quality", the implication is that the Army bought inferior noise reducing headphones from Bose.

People simply refuse to believe that Bose can and does make good products. It is all about the market. Bose is not a good choice for hobbiests, beyond that the fact that Bose has the highest customer loyalty of any tech company in existance, speaks for it self. Or maybe it doesn't. Loyalty means they own it and like it and would buy it again. So, they could call it customer satisfaction.

[Sim reality]

I why we all have a problem with Bose basically their design/engineering phylosophy should really read "overcome using processing":

Bad speakers? Empasize the treble.
Sucky sub? Over empasize mid base.
Small clock? Manipulate the sound wave so you can't tell where the sound is coming from.

It seems to always a workaround instead of addressing the root problem. For most people they don't care... But for "hobbiests" (as you put it) it's just wrong.

[fauzigarib]

Spyboy!

Good answer... you're very right that, in its own way, Bose does provide customer satisfaction.

I think this discussion lends itself to being a good study in why people are so vehement about their likes and dislikes in this hobby.

I do understand people's dislike for Bose. Like Microsoft, Bose tends to be in our faces... and anyone who does understand audio knows for a fact that their consumer products, for the price they ask... well, there's a lot "better" out there.

What I do not understand is, instead of expressing their dislike in terms of not purchasing Bose products, people insist on vocalizing their feelings and bad mouthing Bose customers.

This puts people in the same category in my mind as those the protect their own purchases with a vengeance and state that their xyz brand sitting in their audio rack "blows the competition out of the water!" There's far more complexities in today's market that such simple statements!

Fauzi

[Alaric]

David

The reference is to the fact that Bose was the first company to supply the Army with noise reducing headphones for tank and other armored vehicle crews. So, when alaric says "quantity doesn't equal quality", the implication is that the Army bought inferior noise reducing headphones from Bose.

People simply refuse to believe that Bose can and does make good products. It is all about the market. Bose is not a good choice for hobbiests, beyond that the fact that Bose has the highest customer loyalty of any tech company in existance, speaks for it self. Or maybe it doesn't. Loyalty means they own it and like it and would buy it again. So, they could call it customer satisfaction.

What I posted was "Quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality...and I'm not convinced that good noise reduction automatically equals quality audio reproduction.However , if I ever find myself living in a tank I will surely look into Bose headphones.