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To quote Chris: nummnuts..
David - Trigger-happy HTGuide Admin -
I just bought a new escalade last week, has the premium Bose sound system, 9 speaker piece of junk, it sounds horrible, the Harmon Kardon in my 4 year old Range rover blows it away
i can't believe all the hype over Bose,
oh well, it's my wife's car, and she is clueless, and i am out of the doghouse for buying 802d's and Krell amps recently
:-)
KurtComment
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As if I needed a 2nd reason... just another nail in the coffin, I guess.DanishComment
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Its amazing how much crap Blows, ooops I mean BOSE can get away with and still keep rolling on like the machine that they are. it just shows you how important marketing is in this country, you tell people what the best is and they will buy it, even if its crap.Robert P. 8)
AKA "Soundgravy"
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I almost wanna give it alisten to see just how bad it could be 8O Thats a shame with the Escalade. So whats good in car audio...Focal?....-RussRussComment
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the Harmon Kardon in my Range Rover is just incredible, it's the best i have heard from a stock system, my friend has a lexus with a Levinson, but we both agree mine sounds better
i havent looked aftermarket, seems like a waste to spend $5000+ on something you will almost give away in a few years
it does amaze me how bad the Bose sounds, i tinkered with it for an hour today, it's just bad, almost like Rotel
( that's supposed to be funny to one person on this forum who idolizes Rotel, so don't everyone get worked up)
:-)
I'm a bad man
hahahhaha
Kurt
KurtComment
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Ok don't kill me!
Ok here goes... I'm still new to this forum, so I suppose I'm really treading on thin ice.. but oh well...
I've been a part of these "Bose sux!" discussions before, and I can't help but get a "I really can't believe that" feeling at the end of them.
Frankly, I think their producs really suck... Aside from the 903, which is a semi-decent speaker which still can not justify it's insane prices... But on the whole, I really think their products don't give me the satisfaction or enjoyment that say my Klipschorn has been giving me for the past 3-4 years or the anticipation that I felt when I went to audition the B&W 800 series!!
... but that's just me. I think Bose is there to market their cute-looking (bluagh!), innovative (right!), and state of the art (tell it to someone else) designs that just are not capable of providing a full range of the audio spectrum. However, at the end of the day, they satisfy customers.
Come on, let's really break this down. How can a profit-hungry company continue to advertize in the millions if they don't have sales to justify it. No matter what we say, and no matter how much we bad mouth the company, the fact of the case is that the satisfaction that you and I get from a wonderful Marlin-headed B&W 802D singing off of a Classe monoblock... well people get a similar feeling from their Acoustimass Series cubes.
An argument could be made that, say Krell amps are overpriced. One could say that they don't provide that much purer a load of power than say a Rotel of similar specs. Yes, Krell is not as shameless at providing trash to their customers as Bose has been known to be... but at the end of the day, they do rely on some form or the other of marketing.
My point is simply this: A company is only as good or bad as its customers allow it to be. If Bose is still running a profitable company... Dude, some poor sot is buying the speakers and showing them off to his friends... More power to him!!! :roll:
Anyways, just wanted to get this off my chest. Please don't kill me! 8O
Later,
-FauziComment
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I reckon when Amar Bose sees this ad. he'll sue Sunbeam for every cent they have. They probably sound better than his anyway! :rofl:Attached FilesComment
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:rofl:Originally posted by David Meek
CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Buy aftermarket. Buy Alpine :TOriginally posted by Russ LJasonComment
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Fauzi
welcome to the trenches :-)
Bose is like McDonalds, they sell more food than anyone on the planet, is it the best, of course not, but it's cheap and convenient
Bose is cheap and easy to set-up, just what the mass consumer want's
plus there contract with Cadillac alone must bring in billions, my ( PREMIUM) yuk, system was something like $3500 upgrade, in all reality, probably cost dealer half that, and cost about $200 to make, just like a super size drink at McDonalds, the cup cost more than the actual drink
i mean, they make a movie about how bad McDonalds food is, and there sale go up,
hmmm, maybe i should invent a crappy sounding edible hamburger surround system, hahaha
KurtComment
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McDonalds' food may be crappy, but it is cheap and tastes good. So explain how they are like McDonalds again?
BBComment
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I like the Bose Car Audio better than the home! If you talk to some one that works for Bose, they will get REAL pissed if you compair the car audio to Home. Just thought I would through that out. I talked to a guy that worked in the Car section of Bose once, and he was PISSED when I did the compairison to the home.
I get at least a call a week to come and "Tune" a Bose 3-2-1 system! Drives me NUTS! Lucky for me I am to busy to make it out there. But after about 4 or 5 of those trips you get rather pissed that you can not make their system sound like Bose said it would! And they are not going to blame Bose for the crappy sound, they blam the AV guy would tried to tune the crap!The Bitterness of poor quality last longer than the joy of low prices.Comment
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I'd actually disagree that Bose is cheap. (in the terms of inexpensive) If Bose was LESS expensive, I'd have less problem with them. The thing is, though, IMHO, Bose is so overmarketed, that they've created the IMPRESSION to consumers that Bose is high quality equipment. For what Bose charges, you can get better performance from other products. But if Bose priced their equipment comparable to other products of comparable performance, Bose stuff would cost much less.Originally posted by kurtholz CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Brandon,
McDonalds.. taste good.... Are you smoking the CRACK???????Comment
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Not today.
BBComment
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Hey, do you really NEED another reason to avoid Bose? CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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The thing is Bose is a member of CEDIA! They're sueing an association they're a member of over a trademark. How stupid is that?
If I were Ray Lepper I'd kick them out of CEDIA.DaveComment
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All Right!!!...Confess all of you....each and everyone of you know,that at one time or another,you felt that Bose was it...
I can remember 'striving' for a Bose system...
Back in 1990 or so...the first cube/subwoofer system I saw was the Bose one.I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced...whatever...
I was about to buy one...but,tested out the Polk RM3000's version first...
It became the first time I realized better was out there....Comment
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Sorry, right from the get go I thought they looked pretty pathetic :lol:Originally posted by H.DonaldJasonComment
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Well.....I was a little slow...at the time I was dazzled that I could have these small speakers sound like much larger ones...at least in theory.Comment
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Yes, I will admit to one time wanting a Bose system. That was until a friend informed me otherwise.Originally posted by H.Donald
As Fauzi has stated, Bose is one profitable company. And if the average consumer doesn't know what good sound is, then they will rely on marketing. Guess what, Bose spends the most on marketing. (I don't really know if that statement is true)
I have a friend that can basically afford anything and he raves about his Bose system. The perceived quality is in the ear of the purchaser.Paul
There are three kinds of people in this world; those that can count, and those that can't.Comment
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:agree:Originally posted by Chris DLast edited by Chris D; 13 November 2016, 17:04 Sunday.Comment
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Well, no, from the beginning I was a real skeptic about the "full sound from a cube" thing. By the time I could afford a real system, I just decided to go with a full-sized system anyway. CHRIS
Well, we're safe for now. Thank goodness we're in a bowling alley.
- PleasantvilleComment
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Kim Jung Il says "Bose wocks"...Sorry
ops:
RussComment
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:a>Team America must stop Bose :2guns:
(Guess I'm not that sorry)RussComment
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Only a total moron would buy Bose anything, i use ESOB for my computer, they sound great, incredible soundstage and value priced
:-)Attached FilesComment
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Been away for a bit!
Sorry folks... been away for a bit, so I just caught up on this thread again... interesting.
About the comparison b/w McD's and Bose... hmmm... I have a feeling the fries actually sound a tad bit better than the Lifestyle system! But then, the cubes might make a more wholesome meal, so it's a close race!!! :T
Folks, come on!!! How many of you have heard that B&W owners just have wool over their eyes, and have bought the 802D's because of the name? Yes, it's usually Bose owners that make comments like these, but the point is that a large portion of today's audio customer base listen with their eyes (what they read, see, etc.) and not like the good ol' days, where we loved the tube SOUND, the warm SOUND of a nicely matched pair of speakers with a nice powerful, yet smooth amp, etc.
It's all (sadly) become a game of perception.. What are minds see, not what our ears hear.
In fact, frankly speaking, I had never heard a B&W speaker in my life. But the cool website, people's comments, the "Released!" magazine ads... all led me to want to hear a pair. And yes, I LOVED the audition and will definitely get a pair of 802d's (fingers crossed!!!) when the budget allows... but I still went into the audition WANTING to love them.
That's how powerful advertising and marketing today is... and thank God I'm blessed with a pair of discerning ears... but I can't say that for a lot of people.
So maybe they don't get good sound from the Bose system they bought... But I think that something has to be said about the customer satisfaction (in terms of status, coolness, whatever!) that Bose is able to provide to people.
An aside: Do people put Bang & Olufsen products in the same category? Those too are WAAAAAAY over priced things with stunning designs and mediocre performance at best.
Peace! Later,
FauziComment
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B&O's style choices are a lot more interesting, and they actually use some quality materials and components (ICE modules in their Jetson apartment building omnidirectional speakers), so while they are overpriced for their performance, I would say you are not spending the money on their performance.
As for admissions, I bought the stereo acoustimass/woof II set from Costco 12 years ago. My thought was "wow, $200 less than everywhere else, must be a decent deal". So I am well aware of how poor they are from a couple of years of direct experience.
BBComment
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Confession is good for the soul,brother...Comment
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Guess I'm a moron then. I bought a pair of Bose 501s back in 1980 or 81 and have been using them ever since for my music listening. Would I buy them today ? Probably not, but I got the 501s at cost so I have never felt I overpaid.Originally posted by kurtholzComment
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Let's take B&W as an example...
George,
FWIW, I don't think you're a moron... In fact, I read an earlier thread of yours about your many projectors and was suitably impressed!!!
Ok.. going to tread a little further and play more of the devil's advocate... Just for the sake of argument, let's take the 802D... Marlin head and all.
I wonder what it costs to make... Just pure material goods, and manufacturing costs. I can't imagine it would cost $6k per speaker... I don't think it's near half that. I don't know the figures over here, and I'm sure that some of the B&W resellers on this forum will chime in...but I have a feeling that whatever the Trade Price (the price at which the company sells to its appointed agents), I'm sure there is more than a 200% markup between simple manufacturing COGS, and that price. I'm sure that the figures are off but you get the drift.
So how come no one ever bad mouths either Bowers or Wilkins? Because they deliver on the $12,000 sound? Man oh man, I don't know what 12,000 worth of pure sound sounds like, but I'm sure it surpasses the best orgasm ever! Fact of the case is that when you spend 12k, you get a WONDERFUL sound couple with good looks, build quality, etc... But you also pay for the R&D, the marketing, the name and the reputation. So the difference b/w the trade price and the 12k translates into profits for B&W and (hopefully) satisfaction for the end user.
Which is why, despite not liking (to put it mildly) Bose products, I think the company is shrewd in its sales and marketing.
*ducks for cover!!! :E
-FauziComment
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hey george
you did get the point of the post right?
i use Bose computer speakers now, i turned them upside down, ESOB, hahaha, as in a joke
:-)
i had 901's 20 years ago, i thought they were the best ever
i feel so cleansed now
KurtComment
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Oh yeah.Originally posted by kurtholz
BTW, I am not defending Bose. In fact I pretty much agree with what most people here say about the company, and that their products are overpriced. I just have to chime in whenever a bash Bose thread pops up because I do own and have owned a pair of 501s for many many years and they have given me plenty of satisfaction.
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Interesting. Wonder how it would go down if your acute observation was repeated within a 'cables debate' or better still 'all amplifiers sound the same' thread.Originally posted by fauzigaribComment
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I agree that many folks are vulnerable to marketing. Quality companies like Rotel and B&W have to keep up with the marketing strategies used by lesser quality companies like Bose et al. However you must admit that marketing can be alot of fun when you have a great quality product. Ex. the promotional DVD for the B&W 800 series + others.Originally posted by fauzigarib
My introduction to my B&W speakers was off the street. I hadn't had a sound system for 25 yrs since I was 20, heard B&W compared to others at the local Hi-Fi shop and couldn't believe how far speakers had come in 25yrs. Great quality and word of mouth are the best marketing tools :T -RussRussComment
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Originally posted by fauzigarib
This is interesting (and all) but I would pick a different B&W product to go after using this line of argument... Because...
The 802D cabinet requires a special machine to bend the 25mm of wood and hold it in place - to create the solid wood curved body - instead of gluing 4 pieces of wood together - as well as multiple C&C machine work..
Also consider the huge metal plinth (stand thing) on the bottom (very unique and I don't ever see anything like that in that price range)
Not to mention the Marlan Head top enclosure - which is a material very much like super dense ceramic - who's doing cool stuff like that?
And the Diamond tweeter diaphragm they have made for them by DeBeers - considering that 98% of all speaker mfgr's do not make their own tweeter or - B&W making their tweeter and then getting a very expensive diaphragm material is special - consider that fact that there are $20,000.oo dollar speaker out there with Audax ($39.00) tweeters in them!!!!
Now lets get to the bass driver material in the 802D - Rohacell - an extremely expensive material - that no other speaker mfger's bother to pay the price for - largely because most of them buy their bass drivers off the shelf as well - but the point is Rohacell is very cool and extremely powerful bass driver material - A nice touch by B&W - because they didn't have to at that price - because nobody else does!!!
If Wilson made the 802D it would retail for $29,000.oo (IMO)
Based on all of the above
I might go after the PV1 subwoofer or maybe the FPM6 wall speaker... for better results from that argument...Comment
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Bowers and Wilkins is a large enough speaker company...5th in the world... to keep production costs down and give great sound for the money. They have the management savvy to use their resources to make quality products :T and make heaps of cash. :jawdrop: -RussOriginally posted by Andrew M WardRussComment
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True. I was having a converation a few months back with a co-worker and he stated, "oh man, the best speakers period are the little Bose speakers" I just looked at him with my jaw on the floor and asked him if he was serious. Sure was. But it's true, they think that just because it's the most expensive speaker in Best Buy, it must be the best speaker in there.Originally posted by Chris DLast edited by Chris D; 05 December 2016, 11:48 Monday.B&W 804S/Velodyne SPL-1000R/Anthem MRX720Comment
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:rofl:But it's true, they think that just because it's the most expensive speaker in Best Buy, it must be the best speaker in there.Lee
Marantz PM7200-RIP
Marantz PM-KI Pearl
Schiit Modi 3
Marantz CD5005
Paradigm Studio 60 v.3Comment
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DeBeers makes the diaphragm? Wow!!!
Andrew - Great post... Very informative... and I agree that for the comparison, another product would be more accurate. However, my purpose was not to bring down B&W, but to portray the superficial quality that is prevalent in the market today.
I agree that, for example, B&W didn't have to use Rohacell and they did because it, in simple terms, makes a better speaker. But try telling that to a Bose owner, and the fanatic that he is, the response will surely be... "Dude... COME ON! B&W has to put Rohacell and diamonds in their tweeters to get the same sweet sound that my Bose cubes put out!"
My point is that I KNOW that B&W is objectively a better speaker manufacturer. No subjectivity about it. However, most of the audio world does not just because Bose's marketing is so vast. Sad sad sad...
Russ - "I agree that many folks are vulnerable to marketing."
I would even go as far to say that so are you... and me... and many of the other non-Bose owners. Hypothetically, if a new company made EXACTLY the same speaker as the 802D. And I mean EXACTLY. And legally (IOW, let's assume that they just studied the speaker, and no industrial espionage was involved.) Got DeBeers to help out. And used Rohacell... and shaped the Marlan heard. And made it sound EXACTLY the same. The only thing was that it was half the price of the original. My guess is that, not only would they not sell a single pair, but a thread would show up on this forum bad mouthing it.
I'm dying dying dying to get a pair of 802D and have started to save up for them... and if you had 12,000 on you, I would consider killing you for it if we ran into each other on a dark street... Even I wouldn't consider buying the copies. Why? Because I believe in the company, and I would NEVER get the same satisfaction as I would if I paid full price for the original.
And I guess that's the satisfaction that Bose banks on and profits from.
Oh well.. interesting discussion...
-FauziComment
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Originally posted by fauzigarib
Exhale...
Relax...
hugs all around...Comment
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Hugs to all!!
Andrew,
Sorry if my tone came across as forceful... I really really don't mean my conversations in anything but the most indifferent of tones...
Now where's that huggie smiley!!!
Later,
FauziComment
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$12000 for a DeBeers diamond for the speakers and the wife gets....? :lol:Originally posted by Andrew M WardRussComment
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