Working on the new setup with NAD M50

[JonMarsh]

Updated and checked out the M50+M52

Spent some time on the M50 + M52 this afternoon, long planned, long deferred, just too much non-audio stuff been going on.

Downloaded the BluOS app for my iPad Pro, and after configuring successful in HotSPOT mode (the instructions for that are not at all intuitive or complete, because the software has kept changing, but the documentation has been static since release).

The screen showed four update steps, but it actually took more. Six updates later, and re-indexing the library (must be done for every controller setup) things are playing the way they should through the Soekeris DAC. This picture shows just how compact that little DAC is... with headphone cross feed support turned on, the sound is pretty nice.













Things are working as they should, but even for my simple requirements, this is definitely not a setup process for a non-tech type. Controller software has changed quite a bit from the last version I ran, but being able to experiment, I didn't have too much trouble figuring out what worked.


This player is going out to Steve Manning this week to compare to his computer based setup. Be interesting to see what he thinks. I still have to say the hardware design is pretty solid.

[JonMarsh]

I will be testing some of these functions soon this week- I've completed setting up the QNAP HS-210 NAS, and am in the process of uploading a LaCie 2BIG NAS, and will be testing both with the M50 and the AURALiC AIRES.

Just for the record, this was my review posted on the NAD site for the M50:

Introduction
The M50 Digital Music Player and matching M52 Digital Vault have been very sonically satisfying to own, but there have been functional aspects regarding file ripping, management, and backup that I have been unable to address until recently, in large measure due to the relatively sparse and topic incomplete documentation provided with these very high performing units. In this review I’d like to discuss the aspects of their performance and construction which have charmed, as well as address topics not discussed in the provided documentation which are nevertheless solvable with the right insight and approach.

What has worked well from day one… the sound.
There are quite a few informal discussions and comparison of the M50 with other digital streaming players that can be found on the internet with just a little effort- the general consensus of these reviews mirror my own experience, that this player has a particularly natural presentation in both sound stage, frequency response and dynamics, and delivers this with a multi-tude of file formats, probably more than any other single player on the market, which are often limited to 2-4 favored formats. My own experience is that as a transport player it beats out several expensive disk players I have on hand, with any of the DACs which I’ve tried it with (NAD M51, Berkeley Alpha DAC, TotalDAC-D1 Dual). As a streaming player, the overall sonics are superior to the best Mac setup with an Alpha USB interface; the improvements lie in the naturalness of reproduction of transients and the ability to reproduce a room acoustic from the recording with a natural sense of space. It’s performance as a digital streaming player is competitive with units costing much more; the value proposition is clear.

In my present playback setup where the M50/52 are used, the AES/EBU output is connected to a Brainstorm DCD8 which functions as a digital reclocker, using an external Rubidium oscillator; the AES/EBU output from the DCD8 is connected to a TotalDAC-D1 dual.

Evolution of functionality

The fundamentals of sonic performance are in large measure due to the hardware design; it’s the evolution of the software platform that most impacts functionality- this has improved steadily since I purchased the M50 and M52 in September of 2013- through firmware updates to the M50, and software updates for the iOS iPad M50 remote program. This has steadily improved the quality and performance of ripping and consistency with which CD’s are identified and album artwork included in the database. Files are ripped to WAV initially then encoded in FLAC, which saves disk space through lossless encoding, much like ZIP files on your computer. This encoding is quite effective, as I have hundreds of CD’s now ripped but more disk space free than you would expect, knowing the storage requirement for WAV or AIFF files.

But the functionality still has occasional glitches— a CD may not be recognized in the online data base used for ripping, and so the ripped files are placed in the “Unknown Artist” directory, without the proper track names. Even recognized CDs may be missing the album artwork, or may be supplied with incorrect artwork- and there is no way using the iOS App or controls on the M50 to directly address these problems.

Furthermore, I have high resolution files purchased from vendors like HDTracks or ripped from my own SACDs that I would like to setup with the M50, on the M52, but the owners manual does not describe any method for getting these on to the M52- instead, one is to use a USB stick or external drive and connect through the USB A connector on the front panel, though it should be pointed out that a recommended folder structure and arrangement is not suggested. Fortunately, following the iTunes layout will work fine, but using a second drive connected at the front panel is not the most convenient solution.

One of my biggest concerns was backup- it’s a lot of effort ripping hundreds of CDs, and while the M52 does incorporate RAID5 capability and can rebuild after replacing one of the drives (the M52 uses special high MTBF drives developed for 24/7 operating performance in enterprise environments; AFR for 24/7 is rated at 0.55% per year, which is quite good- and not to be compared with those who suggest the M52 is overpriced because they can put a cheap box together with cheap standard desktop drives- you get what you pay for, in all cases.

Still, being able to backup the state of the M52 as well as address file and artwork issues would be very desirable- only by accident did I find out that actually is possible, as there is no coverage of these topics in the NAD documentation. Network based file management and backup for the M50/52 Purely by accident I discovered that the M50 can be found on the local network by my Mac’s, and will appear on the desktop as a server shared drive. Normally I never have the music system and the computers turned on at the same time, so it was an unusual situation when I discovered that recently. The name which is designated for the M50 (FamilyRoom in my case) is used for the shared folder, and within a “Music” folder is visible, and this contains at the next level all of the artists listing, and below that the album folders, with the album track contents and album artwork JPG within.

This arrangement opens the door for various occasional but very desirable management tasks: Backing up all the artist and album folders to a separate drive; copying the “Unknown” folder rips and updating track names and embedded information, using a program such as Max, and updating or adding missing album artwork. Additionally, files of a compatible type in a similar folder format can be added conveniently from external sources to the M52, such as high resolution files purchased from labels or third party vendors like HDTracks. One must use the re-index function after any externally made updates.

With this newly discovered management capability, my few qualms and quibbles regarding the M50/M52 functional capabilities and management have been completely resolved. I would strongly recommend NAD include this information in the M50/M52 manuals, though. Now I can say that the system functionality I'm experiencing fully meets my needs and current expectations- being able to use external network based management has raised the user experience to the same level as the sonic experience, which is truly excellent.

Jon Mark Hancock - Danville, CA, USA

[Macho-IXM]

Not that I've found through the app. OTOH, the M52 drive or any other connected drive appears as a server drive on my local network, so I can go in and mess with files, including updating cover art, folder titles, etc, with any of my Mac's, and also can back up the system (which I do... )

My favorite metadata editor is Max, and for that it's best to just copy things over (say, in the case of a rip where it's not found the meta data and is considering it an unknown artist) and update with Max.

Beautiful, as long as I have a way to edit them its fine. Don't mind if the process is tedious, will look into this Max software too.

On the topic of rip and store, I read elsewhere that the M50 will rip to any local storage i.e., NAS, HDD or Flash drive attached via the USB port (Don't know which port though). Have you ever tried this out Jon? If not, can you please try this out when you get time and update about it.

I'm very keen on this rip and store because I heard it reads the disc at least three times to get a bit perfect file, and thats why it takes almost 15 to 20 mins per CD. Is this true? Does it really make a difference from a PC rip? I generally use Exact Audio Copy to rip my CD's to FLAC, and it shows the quality of each track after the rip. But sometimes it shows the quality like 95% to 98% on particular tracks. I've even gone to extent to buy another copy of the same CD, thinking it might have been a one off disc error, but thats not the case. I have to change my optical drive next to see if thats causing the issue, although I doubt if that the problem. Because most CD's go through without any issues. Totally confused about this. If you have any idea about this, please elaborate.

Thanks a ton in advance,

Macho-IXM.

[JonMarsh]

Not that I've found through the app. OTOH, the M52 drive or any other connected drive appears as a server drive on my local network, so I can go in and mess with files, including updating cover art, folder titles, etc, with any of my Mac's, and also can back up the system (which I do... )

My favorite metadata editor is Max, and for that it's best to just copy things over (say, in the case of a rip where it's not found the meta data and is considering it an unknown artist) and update with Max.

BTW, I've found iTunes meta data library to be steadily improving over the years and right now I'd rate it excellent- better than any other single one one I know. For example, it's the only one that had the data for a CD called "Music of Cuba", produced in Cuba by CubaInsight, CD brought back from Cuba by my girl friend during a trip there. Easiest way to rip that album was doing it through iTunes to AIFF, then converting to FLAC with Max. (there's nothing wrong with AIFF, it's just larger... FLAC is like a zipped file. Otherwise it would require manual editing of each track's meta data, which even with Max is a bit time consuming to do properly.

[Macho-IXM]

Thanks a ton Jon,

That settles it then, time to hunt for the M52, hope I'd be able to get a discount on it.

Coming back to the album art and track names, is there no way to edit and add info through the app? I'm a bit worried there because a lot of the regional CD's database is not even available on iTunes, and I listen to a lot of regional content .

I'll look into the Auralic Aires as well, just in case I don't find an M52.

Thanks again,

Macho-IXM.

[JonMarsh]

First point, as far as I know, it is not possible to use the rip and store function on the M50 with any other drive than the M52, which as you note, has been discontinued. I will test that again, but early on I determined that to be the case. The M52 is formatted in such a way that it is not readable by windows, Macs, and even doesn't seem to use a standard Linux file format, which I tried drivers on a Mac to access it.

Also, even when using the M52 and ripping from CD to the M52, it sometimes had problems finding good artwork for the album, and there are albums not recognized in it's database resources which are recognized, by say, iTunes- case in point being the "Music of Cuba" CD from InsightCuba, which granted, is a bit off the beaten path, but there have been quite a few others.

So, while my M52 works, I would now suggest to those interested in the M50 that you plan on ripping your albums and artwork on a Mac or PC; the artwork works fine with a 500x500 pixel jpg, which should be named "folder.jpg" and put in the same folder with the music. The M50 will play most any music format, but it rips to FLAC and likes FLAC just fine for playback, and that is more storage efficient.

I have not heard any difference between using a FAT32 formatted drive of any sort versus the M52. The M52 uses a RAID format where it can lose one drive and still recover/use all the data. It plays very well just using a USB stick plugged in to the front, which is what I normally do for bringing over some new cuts to try out or if a friend wants to bring over music. The type of drive is very unlikely to have any impact- remember, the M50 is a memory player, reading the contents of an album into RAM before playing, whether it comes off of a CD disk in direct play mode, or from a network music asset or a hard drive or memory stick.

A good way to go for responsiveness is a small SSD (relatively), say, 240GB, for which I have all my standard resolution material loaded on. I'm now setting up the high res stuff on an NAS, a small dual drive QNAP. Haven't finished that yet, too many other things on my plate.

I'm still delighted with how good the M50 sounds; it's won lots of shoot outs on the internet, and using it as I do with a re-clocking system should be even less dependent on the internal clocks, but still... it's a fine piece. Not inexpensive, unless you try to find something that matches it for less money- tough to do. Impossible, likely, unless you can cut your feature set a bit...

The only other unit you might want to take a look at is the Auralic Aires. It's less expensive, but then it doesn't quite have the feature set. But it does have a reputation for excellent sonics, and it now can support working with a local USB drive. Based on how well the Auralic Vega I've recently bought (as a more portable solution- carry it around other places) works, I suspect you can't go wrong with the Aires. I'm considering one for the portable solution, too. (well, let's call it "mobile", not portable... though as they'd both easily fit in a small pack, it meets my definition... :W )

Hope this helps some...

[Macho-IXM]

Hi all,

I'm new around here, so please bear with me for any mistakes committed unintentionally.

First of all, I have to say that this thread has been nothing less of an enlightenment. All prospective NAD M50 buyers must go through this, a must read. You are a true legend JonMarsh. And secondly, I have posted this same content on another forum recently. Just thought there's nothing wrong in getting a second opinion on the same matter.

I just recently set up my bedroom Hifi system, which consists of a Denon BDP-1610 (borrowed temporarily from my Home Theatre) -> coax to the NAD M51 -> balanced to the Chord Electronics SPM 650 Power amp -> KEF LS 50 (I'm still using the cables borrowed from my dealer for demo, cable suggestions also welcomed). I use my Macbook Pro to play FLAC files from time to time.

I'm very much satisfied with the sound quality, but I feel restricted in terms of having to change CD's every time and not able to switch album's randomly. Also, my HT needs its BDP. Hence I'm contemplating on buying the NAD M50, which seems to be the obvious choice. There in lies my problem also. I'm very much looking to use the "rip and store" function of the M50. The problem is that the NAD M52 costs too much in my country, more than the M50 itself! Which I find discouraging, also there is the point that it has recently been discontinued as well.

Considering this situation, I was thinking of buying a proper NAS drive for the same money (looking at the Synology DS1515 or so) and installing it in my study which I can use for so many other functions, can't have it in my bedroom. I know that the M50 doesn't rip and store via ethernet. My question is, can I connect the M50 in my bedroom to the NAS in my study with like a 60 feet USB 3.0 cable and use the "rip and store" function along with regular playback? I'm a bit doubtful if that will work, also wondering if I would face any dropout issues at this length.

The only other option I can currently think of in my head is to use a simple flash drive, rip CD's onto flash drive through the M50 and then use my PC/MAC to transfer the ripped files to the NAS. I don't see why this shouldn't work, but would only prefer doing this method if nothing else works.

Also, I would like to know if there is any difference in sound quality between using the M52 and a regular NAS drive/External HDD? I read this on another thread, and was fascinated. I really don't see how this is possible, as the drives are just used as a source location, and all the conversion happens in the M50. If there truly is a jump in SQ over NAS, then I think I wouldn't mind investing in an M52.

Many thanks in advance for your inputs!

Macho-IXM.

[JonMarsh]

Does anyone happen to know, I thought Mutec was going to release an MC-3+ Smart Clock with USB input on it... did that ever happen or am I probably just confusing multiple products together into one.

I was looking at picking up a Mutec and possibly using it as well in line when we pick up a good ADC to get some of Bill's vinyl onto the computer... especially since he has so much music you can't find anywhere else. My thinking is we can use the 10MHz clock into the Mutec and use the world clock out to the ADC (depending on which one we get) to help keep the signal clocked properly....

Bill and I finally got his Vinyl Rig put back together and we were listening to some vinyl and we both admitted we were impressed with how good his vinyl system is. There's some upgrades he wants to perform including finishing his Nat P upgrades...but we are hoping by the end of the year we are up and running to record some of his precious vinyl.

I just wanted to see if I'm crazy or not, but if there's a new version with USB input on it (to use to reclock to a DAC) then I'd might go for that model than the MC-3+ model.

It's supposed to be coming, it was announced, but don't be surprised if it's six months before you see it in the supply chain... this isn't a big company you know, just one with a big impact in selected areas. It has an SD card slot, so one can plug in the camera card and auto upload to the drive. It has multiple WiFi modes, can connect to a local network as a shared drive, or act as a hotspot on its own, with full programmable security, including separate ADMIN controls. Pretty slick for WD, who is not my favorite HD company.

Following up on digital audio and the server setup has been on hold, what with getting ready for the Antarctica trip, a visit by GF's niece, and setting up the new home office and software on two Mac Pros (a 2010 I bought used on eBay, hopped up with a current six core 3.5GHz processor and new video card (it's primarily a Windows machine, though I do have OS X running from three SSD's), and my 2013 dark side model with the LG 4K Cinema mode display)(Windows really doesn't handle retina resolutions very well, as regards how UI elements work scaled up, and how Windows tries and fails to manage that, so the 2010 Mac Pro has a "conventional" large screen display port monitors) (it's also a great gaming rig, Witcher 2 runs really sweet, and I'm looking forward to Witcher 3 in May).

I do have a new 24V 5A analog supply to run the Rubidium oscillator I'm going to use with the Mutec. I haven't even had time to send off the M52, and have NAS to sort out and setup.

I've got to find some time after I get back to sort things out- but things are also pretty crazy at work, though not in Cupertino- except that we have a local effort with a design demo to see about getting into a new program there- I have mixed feelings about whether I hope it's successful or not- depending on how it impacts my work life. I have a number of cooperative projects and mentoring effort initiated, but the rug could get pulled out from under those.

Glad to hear you like the QNAP- they seem to make first class stuff.

BTW, I did manage to get all the data off the M52, after warming it up above 70F, (it can drop to 50 overnight in that part of the house, not served by central heat, only a local pellet stove that is run only in the morning). And I went in and manually located and sized album graphics for the albums the M50 DB software couldn't find, and backed it all up to two drives for now. So, the collection is actually in better shape than prior to this problem. Future ripping will be done on the 2010 Mac Pro- with XLD, not on the M50.

Heck, I've been so busy the last few weeks I haven't had any chance to sit down and listen to music. But we're nearly all packed, I have a WD portable WiFi hard drive that will be our media server and photo backup while we're gone, working with the iPads, iPhone, and my Macbook.

Has a USB 3 connector for power and direct connection; but it also has a built in Lithium ion battery, and can do 6 hours of continuous video streaming on a full charge, and 20 hours of live standby. Best way is to download the media from it, and run from your device, then erase after viewing. SD card slot supports uploads and downloads of camera photos.

[PewterTA]

Does anyone happen to know, I thought Mutec was going to release an MC-3+ Smart Clock with USB input on it... did that ever happen or am I probably just confusing multiple products together into one.

I was looking at picking up a Mutec and possibly using it as well in line when we pick up a good ADC to get some of Bill's vinyl onto the computer... especially since he has so much music you can't find anywhere else. My thinking is we can use the 10MHz clock into the Mutec and use the world clock out to the ADC (depending on which one we get) to help keep the signal clocked properly....

Bill and I finally got his Vinyl Rig put back together and we were listening to some vinyl and we both admitted we were impressed with how good his vinyl system is. There's some upgrades he wants to perform including finishing his Nat P upgrades...but we are hoping by the end of the year we are up and running to record some of his precious vinyl.

I just wanted to see if I'm crazy or not, but if there's a new version with USB input on it (to use to reclock to a DAC) then I'd might go for that model than the MC-3+ model.

[PewterTA]

I just got two Qnap TurboNAS (TS-453 Pro) NASes at work that we are going to use to quickly transfer some data across country. I have to say I'm extremely, extremely, extremely impressed with this unit. I had a pretty decent app store and you can run any appliance you can run within VMware... (well just about any). So you can run 3VMs ontop of this NAS...which really makes it a neat device. Perfect for someone wanting a full fledged server and storage piece all in one! I created a Win 8.1 and 2012r2 VM on the machine and besides being a little slow during boot up (powering on at the same time) it is not bad at all! The speeds to and from the QNAP are stellar, very impressed with this unit.

I bought the HGST drives in the units as well. They so far are my favorite drives for reliability and performance!

Hope they have a quick turn around on the M52!

[JonMarsh]

The M52 has a three year warranty- it's not essential to being able to use the system- I can plug any FAT32 formatted drive of up to 2TB into the back USB port. It just won't rip to that kind of drive. If the drive shows up as an available server on the network, I almost don't care, as I can rip on any of my Macs and setup the files with a folder jpg and copy to the drive, and update an offline master. But if you want to use the built in ripping facility, you have to have an M52 connected. The M52 uses a non-standard file system, and can't be read by a Mac or PC. Even though the format is derived from a Linux file system, I haven't found any driver set or into online that would enable me to read it directly. Maybe they did this to appease the labels, since they still don't really like ripping.

At this point I don't really know or have a way to test if it's the drives or the system- all I know is that when doing the drive initialization when the front lights normally alternate between blue and orange, on the two bad ones, the blue doesn't come on, it's just dead during when it should. When the drive did work, that is, I had two drives functioning, the 2nd blue was only lit dimly.

So, it could be something else.

Last, I continue to be VERY pleased with the sonics of the M50 server, so with or without the M52, it's a keeper. The biggest drawback for the M50 is how much stuff isn't described in the owners manual, which I've had to figure out by hit or miss, like being able to access it on the network as a server, and both copy files to it and back up files from it. Nowhere described in the owners manual, and it's a key piece of information, as otherwise you have no way to back up the M52.

The M50 also reportedly has very good NAS interaction, and can work with almost anything directly over the network, doesn't need a DLNA server or anything like that. I'll be testing that soon, as I have a LaCie NAS to setup, and a QNAP HS210 that I'm going to go against the manual (which says WD and Seagate NAS drives- yuck!) and load HGST NAS drives into it.

[PewterTA]

Sorry to hear about the issues with the drives John... that's no fun at all! I know, I have HD issues with my servers on a normal occurrence (once a month or so - due to age, plus there's over 44 HDs in there). I agree, I'm not a fan of Seagate drives... HGST is my preferred drive as well. Glad you got all your music off the drives and didn't loose anything! That's the important part! I don't know what the warranty is on the M52, but if you contact NAD, you could see if they find it acceptable to just send you the drive and you replace it yourself... then send the drive back to them. That would save on shipping costs and being without the unit for a couple weeks.

If you're allowed to self service too, you could plug the bad drive in and do a s.m.a.r.t. test on it and verify what the issue is, just to have some piece of mind.

[JonMarsh]

Sometimes with "continuous use" hard drives, if you power them off - and leave them off (especially in a cold room), the spindle bearing will stick and they won't spin up again. Or, it takes a few powered seconds for the bearing to free up, which still renders the drive useless in a RAID (because it wasn't there at boot time). I've seen this quite often. A problem with using server grade drives in home electronics. Servers are designed to run 24/7.

Good luck with getting it resolved.

Quite possible, given my usage scenario. Thanks for confirming that idea- I was wondering about bringing it up to temp a bit and then plugging it in and testing it again, before contacting NAD. I've been pondering figuring out a way to get the unit "warm" as a whole, and trying it once more- then informing GF we leave it on all the time. She's a real energy conservationist, though, and has a utility bill probably half of most of her neighbors in similar size houses.

Yes, it was a relief that I could get it running enough to recover all the rips- it would have been a stone cold PITA to have to do those over again! Now I'm adding in other AIFF and M4A rips, and adding the folder jpg so that everything will be nice on the mini raid reference drive and display in the M50 on the remotes.

[mjb]

Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the Seagate drives, even though they're supposed to be long lifetime video surveillance drives designed for long continuous operating life.

Sometimes with "continuous use" hard drives, if you power them off - and leave them off (especially in a cold room), the spindle bearing will stick and they won't spin up again. Or, it takes a few powered seconds for the bearing to free up, which still renders the drive useless in a RAID (because it wasn't there at boot time). I've seen this quite often. A problem with using server grade drives in home electronics. Servers are designed to run 24/7.

Good luck with getting it resolved.

[wkhanna]

Bummer!

Glad you were able to recover your files, though!

[JonMarsh]

Just a report back to let folks know I'm a bit surprised at some reliability problems with the M52 disk vault this weekend, and relate what I've done and am doing about it.




Because things are so busy, I don't get to fire up the system very often- usually only 2-3 times a month. I did fire it up Christmas eve briefly, no problems. In fact, then I finally setup my audio sub network with a new Apple Airport Extreme router, and the M50 wired to ti. But on Christmas morning, the status lights on the three drives did NOT go to all blue, only the one on the left- and almost no music was available. This is supposed to be a RAID5 style array, and with two drives working, you have all data. With only one drive working, you have almost no data.

To have music, I loaded about a dozen albums on to a USB stick from other drives I have around, focusing on holiday music, and plugged that in to the front panel. So, no problem with music on Xmas day, fortunately.


Cycling the power a few times the day after Xmas, i got it to come up with two blue drive status lights. A quick check with the remote app showed that music was showing up normally again. At this point, I could access the M52 drives as a server on the network, so I started backing it up to a Thunderbolt Velociaratpor external drive I had available. That was completed successfully, then I backed that up and also finally copied it to the small mini-raid I'd bought a year earlier and equipped with drives a year earlier.



I've also added in some album rips of additional music done in the past which I hadn't gotten around to ripping on to the M52, which I want to create and add a "folder.jpg" so that the artwork will be picked up properly. I'll be plugging that in and testing later this AM. Was distracted yesterday from this task by a run to the storage units and some speaker baffle construction work.

I'm rather surprised at this failure. I'm wondering if it is thermal related, as this room gets colder than any other part of the house, but worst case we're only talking 50-55 degrees. I have already found my shipping box, and the warranty is 3 years on the Mastersound series, so getting this sent back soon will be on my list of priorities for next week! Personally, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the Seagate drives, even though they're supposed to be long lifetime video surveillance drives designed for long continuous operating life. But that's because I've had a lot of Seagate drive failures- I wish they'd used HGST instead.


**********************

Some additional checking around shows the M52 is not available for sale anymore, though the M50 is. Curiouser and curiouser. I love how my M50 sounds- our guests and even GF remarked on how nice the Xmas music sounded, and that was true for me to- though the Wavecor Ardents.

[JonMarsh]

Sounds like you're going to have a good weekend! I should be getting to the Mutec soon, have all the other bits here, and it can work with sample rate tracking, so I'm crossing my fingers. Just frustrated with my work situation and how little spare time I have!

[PewterTA]

Doing good John, been busy with work and seeming like everyone needs something when I'm not working. But things are going well with me!

Bill is doing well, I haven't seen him much, just once in the last few months at a get together Finleyville had at his place. Was a good time and Bill is his same old same old. I am going to see Bill tomorrow and watch the fireworks with him (Downtown Pittsburgh's) from his place up on Mt. Washington. So it's one of the best places to be right at eye level with the fireworks (or just a little bit above you).

I'll tell him you said Hi, any time I've seen him he always asks what you've been up to posting wise and I try to fill him in.

If you get that Mutec tested out I can't wait to hear, maybe we'll decide to go the DCD-8 way if that's better.

[JonMarsh]

I still need to get on this and pick up a MC-3 Plus and get it into the system and start testing to see what I think of it. I got to get with Bill and see if he got our 1st clock back from testing to verify everything is correct on it.

Still can't wait to eventually try this out. Too much in the mix I tell ya!

I know what that feels like...

I just got in the new SMPS for the 2nd LPFRS oscillator, so hopefully over the July 4 weekend I'll get that going with the Mutec and give it a shot- I'm definitely hooked on having the DCD-8 in the system, as my friend is, and the only thing he doesn't like about the Mutec is the powering arrangements and no clean way to run on batteries or other DC sources.

How's Bill doing these days, anyway? Or You?

[PewterTA]

I still need to get on this and pick up a MC-3 Plus and get it into the system and start testing to see what I think of it. I got to get with Bill and see if he got our 1st clock back from testing to verify everything is correct on it.

Still can't wait to eventually try this out. Too much in the mix I tell ya!

[JonMarsh]

This was a very busy weekend for NON audio endeavors, catching up with some things for daughter and GF. However, I did have a chance to do a bit of work in the family room, and while engaged in that ran the system with the DCD-8, and listened to a few disks- not audiophile material, just a variety of things I like to listen to from several artists- "Against the Grain", Acoustic Alchemy; "Heroine", Lord; "Resurrected Lover", Poor Clares; "Slowdown", Keb Mo. The easiest way to describe the experience listening with the DCD8 in the system is that's it's like getting a new high quality remaster...

My colleague from Munich also likes the sound of the Mutec MC-3 Plus, but because it has AC power in, and there's no convenient way to run it off of a Paul Hynes shunt regulator power supply or batteries, he's sticking with the DCD-88.

BTW, if you're a bit tweak-a-zoid and interested in very high performance DC regulators and power supplies, you should check out Paul's site.

http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/index.html

My friend has quite a few of the SR-1 supplies in different configurations.



At some point after getting the MC-3 Plus I have setup and running and compared with the DCD-8, I may buy a second one and see how it's internally powered and whether it's feasible to add on an external DC supply. That's not likely to happen this year, given all the other things in the queue!

[JonMarsh]

Last weekend I replaced a power cable to the LPFRS that had broken at the DB9 connector when packing this up and moving over to GF's. Then I spent some time working on the setup and menu configuration of the DCD8, and I started to recall what a PITA this was back in late 2010 when we were getting the DCD8 operation sorted out for my colleague in Munich's system- he had to go back to the recording studio he had bought it from used (they were upgrading to a Zodiac 10M) and get a walk through on the process.

Well, this Wednesday evening we got this sorted out- the sticking point I'd forget is that you can't get rate reference from the input (where the sample rate is tracked and set by the input) AND 10MHz re-clocking from the reference oscillator on WC1 at the same time- instead, you have to set the WC-1 up for the desired input and domain and use the learn function to "teach" it that it's getting a 10MHz GPS reference oscillator input, then manually set the sample rate on that domain- for any change on the input rate, one must manually reset the rate. So, to go from 44.1 KHz to 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz, you have to know the rate of the incoming program material and by the front panel menus reset for the new rate. Something of a PITA, compared with what we're used to with "normal" DAC setups.

But man, when it is locked in to the 10MHz WC-1 clock and you compare that to just standard pass through, with auto rate set, there's no doubt about which way to go... finally I've got this setup right in the home system, as of last night!

Now, in this regard the DCD8 is NOT as flexible as the Mutec MC-3 Plus seems to offer more flexible functionality, as by the manual one of the several re-clocking functions, besides using the internal clock generator, is an "asynchronous" with re-clock aligned with the external reference (10MHz oscillator, in this case). So, this SHOULD provide re-clocking but with automatic sample rate tracking on the input.

How will the re-clocking compare with the DCD8? Don't know yet, but obviously I'll want to get the second LPFRS and supply built up and tested soon, and try out this configuration- in principle I COULD have do direct A/B as long as I'm willing to use different outputs and inputs on the M50 and TotalDAC-D1- (AES and S/PDIF), though to be fair, I should test both with either.

Of course, relying on subjective impressions is bothersome to me- not for myself, but for making any kind of recommendation to the community. ( I
am seeing more and more the desirability of finding a good used sample of Audio Precision Model 2- easier said than done, especially with a pending marriage by daughter next year I'm going to need to dig into my piggy bank for!) Of course, there is the cost advantage of the Mutec MC=3 Plus, though. And from the information provided, I believe it will work in balanced single wire mode all the way up to 192 kHz, unlike the DCD8, which needs double wire mode, which is not supported on most consumer DACs. So, this could be a big plus for the Mutec all in all- but must test it out. Hopefully by July 4th.

[JonMarsh]

The 2 disk raid array is just a "playing disk", and right now may not even be used for that. It won't be needed until the M52 RAID 5 disk is full-

I have a working edit disk (the new one described above) and a LaCie dual drive setup in RAID0 for backup. Plus a couple of other random 2TB portables that backup the collection in various parts!

So I think for now I'm well covered.... data redundancy is my middle name- I have too much work and project data that is critical not to have formed good habit, especially after watching fools at work lose everything on their laptop, because our official company online backup space per user is too small.

[technodanvan]

Considering the money you have invested in your current gear (not to mention music!) and the time you have invested in ripping music to said gear I'm not sure a two-disk RAID 1 array would be my first choice. A good hardware-based RAID 5 array would offer better redundancy and increased transfer speed.

That said, I tend to use my backup hard drives for other purposes so they're always running...I suppose if you're making a 'true' backup it'll just sit in a drawer unless needed?

[5th element]

It looks like you can slot hard disks in and out of the mini pro. That seems quite handy for backup purposes.

[JonMarsh]

More pieces to this coming together - the Linksys media bridging WiFi AC router arrived,





which will be used to create a hardwired setup in the family room for the M50, an NAS, and the master Macbook for system configuration/backups work as needed. This unit was a steal deal at $38 at Amazon instead of the $159 MSRP, because Cisco is bailing on the consumer Linksys business. It's specifically designed with four ethernet ports to link via WiFi to a main router for video and gaming, high bandwidth applications- will work fine when occasionally needed for firmware downloads and backups.

Plus, I picked up another of my new favorite type of combo disk - Thunderbolt Plus USB3- the best of both worlds!

This one was a G-TECH 3TB drive, which will be my editing master in the future for rips and M50 backup.



The dual interfaces make things a lot more flexible for interconnect and backup, as with the RMBP 15 and Mac Pro the Thunderbolt is the way to go, while for other systems USB3 provides an alternative, even on hardware only with USB2.

[JonMarsh]

That is too bad.
There is no such thing as too much file redundancy.

Now there is even an option in the iPad remote software under "Configure Player" to backup the library- but there is no documentation about how that works! First guess might be that it uses the front panel USB connector. I've got a 2TB FAT32 formatted drive handy, one I thought I would use for a source drive, but this weekend I'll try using it as a backup and try this command.





Of course, with my newly discovered network maintenance mode from the Mac Desktop, I should be able to backup everything to any drive connected to my Mac. I'll try out these options and report back this weekend.

[JonMarsh]

OK- spent some time creating 88.2/24 FLAC tracks from 176.4 kHz albums, and upload 4, plus some other artwork updates- Things are working as expected, copy time over wired network connection is fairly reasonable, and as I post this I'm listening to "Spiral" by Hiromi - note the HD designation; when it's at CD resolution, (as all the ripped CD material is of course) it just says "CD".

[JonMarsh]

Re-sampled files optimized for the DCD8

Another aspect of the Brainstorm DCD-8 is how AES-EBU is handled... a single AES-EBU connector normally can transmit stereo signals in balanced mode, but originally it was only designed to work up to 96 kHz in that mode. Above that frequency range, considering timing precision and clock recovery, the work around was to switch to dual wire mode, which supported extending the sampling rate to 192 kHz but wasn't operating in balanced mode. Later, with faster transmission components, full balanced operation to 192 kHz has been added as another mode. A lot of pro gear doesn't support that, because, well, the noise and jitter are higher! It's more often a configuration used for consumer gear to keep things "simpler".

Bottom line, the Brainstorm DCD8 is NOT normally a consumer piece of gear, and so for single wire balanced transmission, it operates up to 96 kHz; it can do pro dual wire mode to 192 kHz, but most consumer DAC's can't



Which brings up an interesting conundrum- what to do with all of those high res recordings I have, mostly at 176.2 kHz sampling rates, but some at 192? While many DACs handle multiple sample rates with only one playback sample rate doing on the fly chip based SRC, that's not really a great solution, unless at least you're going with a DSP solution with some first rate algorithms.

Now, the interesting thing is, the folks with the most first rate algorithms for this in the Industry are Izotope...

https://www.izotope.com

And they sell a variety of pro oriented products and plug ins, but they also license software libraries for key functions like resampling with variable filters and remastering, as well as bit dithering in mastering- my favorite tool producer, Audiofile Engineering, has used their routines in their original Wave Editor program I used to get into SACD capture to PCM, and their newer tool, Triumph, continues that tradition.

http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/triumph/

So, now that I've got the transfer of files to the M52 sorted out in principle, I've started importing the high resolution AIFF and FLAC files and converting them to 88.2 kHz files, using the high quality filter settings (most computationally intensive) to create relatively time domain optimized files with the corner frequency well above the limitations of CD audio. This I think will work out pretty well- Izotop SRC is calculated with very high bit depth, and has excellent characteristics as regards the time domain with minimum pre-ringing and low residual upper band aliasing image, which is strongly suppressed.



On my retina Macbook pro with SSD, this work proceeds fairly quickly- and one upside to the sample rate conversion and using FLAC is that the resulting file size on a long album like Hiromi "Sprial" is now only about 1.15 GB in size, instead of 4 GB. This seems to me to be a good trade-off between quality and file size; as good as even CD sounds on the TotalDAC-D1 or M51, I suspect that going to 24 bit and 88 kHz is really as far as I need to go, considering my own needs. Just may be the sweet spot.

Triumph is available on the Mac App store, and is very reasonably priced for what it does- $79. Actually, it would be a bargain at twice the price...

[JonMarsh]

Several possibilities are unlocked by this discovery which should be very useful. Keep in mind that part of why this is exciting to me, is because the basic configuration of the M50 and M52 is so functional in most ways (including the control App, and flexibility to use the drive as either a ripper OR a memory player (tracks are loaded into memory and played from RAM, just as for playing back tracks form external drive and from NAS) and sounds so good, I really don't want to go back to a more conventional Mac/PC music server (of which I've built quite a few, and never been happy using for all that long...)

• CD's that are not identified by the database used by the ripper functionality are placed in an "Unknown" folder at present- now, it should be possible to update the ripped files with track names and adding in album artwork, using a copy and copy back pass in conjunction with Max software on my Macs
• The M50 software saves a JPEG image into each album folder; sometimes successfully identifies and rips and album but doesn't get a JPEG image, or gets the wrong image. Now those images can be updated over the network, and the M52 drive reindexed by the iPad software command.
• The M50 can play most all formats of tracks- this means that my own high resolution AIFF tracks from SACD as well as FLAC tracks form HD Tracks and other vendors can be readily installed using the simple folder structure employed (very similar to iTunes- Artist Name, Album Name, tracks and JPEG inside album folder
• It should be possible to setup automated/scripted backups of the M52 fiiles and folders, saving the effort from the CD rips and preventing data loss in the unlikely event that two of three HD's fail simultaneously, or a major failure occurs in the M52 apart from the drives- this will facilitate rebuilding the system quickly.
• Now it would be easy to rip CD's into FLAC externally and copy them to the system, and if preferred, leave the default setup for the internal drive as a memory player for visitor's disks.

All of this really pleases me, and now puts me in a position to write a comprehensive review of the M50/M52 pair for the NAD site that should be more useful for other potential buyers, and give them much needed guidance for how to get from point A to B, and C and D as well!

[JonMarsh]

Proof of concept in hand...

Proof of concept verified, just with WiFi- I don't think the built in WiFi on the M50 is intended for anything beyond remote control interface- even when you're downloading firmware, it prompts to make a hardwired network connection.




This puts a whole different complexion on data management for the M50 server and M52 combination- I'm one happy camper to see this possibility! On the weekend, we'll do some hard core file management and transfer my HD Track files there, too! :B

[JonMarsh]

Managing the M50 in a network environment

Long time no post on this topic, as the speaker projects have been taking priority in efforts- but some new information has come to light which should make me much happier about managing and expanding this system.

Frankly, the standard documentation is missing more than a few pieces of information I'd like to have, like how to back up files from the M52 disk array, and how to get high resolution files ONTO the M52 disk array, other than using one of the external services that NAD now has software support and support arrangements with.



Well, there's a new review online at Stereophile of the NAD M50 player and M52 disk array, and the network savvy John Atkinson dropped more than a few clues on what should be possible to do and how to do it, so I'll check that out this weekend (hopefully!) and report back.

IF all works as expected, I should be able to back up all the CD to FLAC rips directly on to one of my WD Velociraptor arrays or LaCie arrays, and load up my high resolution HD Tracks files fairly quickly... and all I should need is a Thunderbolt to ethernet adapter for my Mac.

This makes me feel much better about the long term usability and maintenance of this system. NAD has been doing their part- about a half dozen player firmware updates, and even more remote control program for the iPad updates.

Of course, I didn't pay full boat for these, anyway- and while many people are quick to poo-poo the M52, it should be noted that it DOES use special drives originally developed for 24/7 video surveillance and with very long MTBF's. To me, comparing off the shelf desktop drives to high reliability drives on a cost basis alone is penny wise and pound foolish...

YMMV, of course, but I've been nothing but happy with the performance of this system, and steady improvement of the software stack.

I have a colleague from HQ who may be over here in June, who's been something of a partner in crime with this music stuff (especially the DAC comparisons and experimenting with re-clocking) - his wife is a physician and critical listener, and keeps him in line a bit, but he's got a solid ear and has been itching to hear the Isiris project. So there's work to be done to get everything up to snuff by the middle of June....

[JonMarsh]

Well, today has been crazy, getting ready for dinner, but also getting the new LF crossover hooked up to the Isiris, and the reworked Cambridge 840W amp.

But the "big news" is getting the NAD M50 hooked up with almost 200GB of FLAC it ripped from CD's. Initial impression is quite positive in comparison with the Tascam CD transport. It only took about two minutes to train GF on the playback operation. No time for critical listening, but some initial checks show very nice imaging. But for now, it's dinner time!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[JonMarsh]

Ha ha... Also helps that he's finally gotten to the level of good gear that doesn't always cause problems. That helps immensely!!

I'm sure that's a big help- but that's also how I see converting from a PC or Mac based music server to something like an NAD or someday Aurender- totally dedicated and hopefully rock solid.... Cross fingers...

[PewterTA]

Ha ha... Bill has come a long way!!! He's gotten good enough to at least know where the problem resides and lots of times can fix it himself... we've really grown to more complicated issues is the things he can't fix himself. Also helps that he's finally gotten to the level of good gear that doesn't always cause problems. That helps immensely!!

[wkhanna]

Well, without my tech support (Dan, aka PewterTA) I would be nothing but a helpless spectator.

[JonMarsh]

well, it's not a PC, it's a custom ARM computer. But yeah, at least I have tech support at home I can call, though she didn't work on IBM PC's but on mainframe's and AS400 midrange systems!

[wkhanna]

Ha!
Outdone by the GF, and on a PC to boot!

Just like the first thing the IT help desk always says, "Did you try a re-boot?":roflmao:

[JonMarsh]

The NAD M50 was moved to GF's a week ago, and setup with a wired connection. She's been having fun loading CD's in it and setting up her own iPad 2 with the NAD remote software.

Last Saturday I tried to get the WiFi up and running and logged into her network, but it just didn't seem to want to cooperate, raising possible issues in my mind about whether the after market WiFi antenna was working or if there was an issue with the NDA M50.

Well, leave it to an ex IBM systems engineer to solve the problem, she did the equivalent of a Control/Alt/Delete and rebooted the system - then in came up with a front panel message, "Searching for network", and apparently did locate and log on, as she was able to connect and monitor/control all activities (including rip/encode status) from the iPad...

I've never had a system you had to reboot to get the WiFi to work, but then this isn't a PC, and it's not an iPad either, though it uses an ARM processor. At least it seems to be up and running on Wifi now! :T

[JonMarsh]

One drive can die and the RAID array will still work and can be rebuilt. I'm wondering if the drive needs to be pre-formatted or what- some things I want to look into.

I was able to research the HD type; they're Seagate Pipeline/Video HD's designed for 24/7 operating performance in enterprise environments; it's basically a 72000 RPM mechanism slowed down to 5900 to reduce wear and improve the thermals. AFR (annual Failure rate for 24/7 operation) is 0.55%. The whole design focus was noise and vibration and heat reduction and optimizing operating lifetime for applications like video and security.

[wkhanna]

For now, strategy is changed a bit, just load up all the CD's I can on the M52 digital vault. Really wish I could back that up, though... may need to give some feedback to NAD.

That is too bad.
There is no such thing as too much file redundancy.

[JonMarsh]

Big improvement in ripping behavior

The update to the NAD firmware is substantial- perhaps overdue?

It seems as if they've gone in and completely rewritten the ripping routines and how it gets album artwork off the internet, because it's about twice as fast ripping, and far more albums are coming up with artwork, now. What seems to be happening, if I watch the rip/encode status while ripping, is that it gives higher priority to ripping, and builds up a larger/longer queue for the encode process; but you can keep stuffing CD's in without issues. indexing is working better/faster, and as I mention, far more albums are coming up with the embedded artwork now.

In one sense, I'd say this is how it should have worked from the get-go, but it's good to see that the online updates are getting loving and real work- the improvement in my subjective pleasure of how the iPad app works and the player works is substantial with these two new updates.

Unfortunately, finding any substantive information about updates like this is not so easy... a situation I'd like to see changed. But so far, I'm pleased with the process.

[JonMarsh]

well, NAD must be doing something trickier than standard Linux EXT/FS formats, because I can't read the disk with the new drivers installed.

Last week there was a nice update on the iPad controller software, and this morning there is an update for the M50 firmware, which I'm downloading and installing right now. Will be curious to see what that brings. The player update improves some of the menu organization, and adds a direct download from one Highres site; will have to check out what that's about.

For now, strategy is changed a bit, just load up all the CD's I can on the M52 digital vault. Really wish I could back that up, though... may need to give some feedback to NAD.

[JonMarsh]

I think I have another piece of the puzzle under control now...

As far as I can determine, the NAD M50 Vault uses a Linux file system variant, not sure which flavor, but though there are some open source read only drivers for the Mac, I've found a commercial read/write driver EXT/FF from Paragon software....

http://www.paragon-software.com/home/extfs-mac/eshop.html?affChecked=1

Pretty reasonable price, and hopefully it should allow me to backup the M52 as well as write high res files to it... we shall see...

[PewterTA]

HA HA... I like Jack.... no offense Jon... but that would be sweet to make that work with the NAD!