The Arcams Cometh

[Sithlord]

Well the Arcam twins have been ordered and will arrive on Friday morning . The units are the DV29 dvd player and the pre-pro Av8 both are in silver (black was going to be a 3 week wait). To say I'm excited is an understatement and I cannot wait to implement them into my HT. Photos will be posted and of course I will post my impressions of both pieces of equipment once their setup. So it's a sad farewell to Rotel and a big welcome to the new boys on the block. ;b>

[jimmyp58]

That Arcam AV8 is awesome. I considered it strongly vs. the Bryston SP 1.7 I got. You'll get a lot of enjoyment from it for certain. Happy listening to you...

Jim

[Bam!]

When all the dust settles I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Arcam....

[BladeRnR]

It's BladeRnR here (Sith's Brother if you didn't already know). Well the Arcam's have indeed arrived and Sithlord has hooked them up and performed some preliminary white noise/SPL tests, connections all seem to be ok, SACD needs to be hooked up with the King CAT's, he's using Audioquest Optical initially and then we'll test with Aussie Geoffs loner Silver Coax.

Ok here is my VERY immediate impressions (Both visceral and real) keeping in mind we have done a minimal of fine tuning.

Arcam DV29 - superb build quality. Smooth draw action. Super fast DVD menu access. No apparent fine tuning of video options (Like sharpness et all). Astrounding and I mean ASTOUNDING picture quality with layers and layers of detail. Superb colour and detail (We've only tried Star Wars before we had to go to :Z ). Beautiful green cathode display. Remote not very responsive but it's main features are duplicated on the AV8. A great deal of testing to be done before I post a major review.

AV8 Pre/Processor - Beautiful build quality and finish. Beautiful green CRT display that matches the DV29 DVD Player. Superb blue backlit display with a kind of rubbery finish over the entire remote. Excellent menus that are logically set out.

Sound - Ok keep in mind these are initial impressions ONLY and have not been overly considered. Star Wars only. Dolby Digital EX with THX Processing. Smooth - super super smooth sound that has ironed out ANY sibilance or harshness the Rotel had. By comparison with the Arcam AV8 this harshness was quite apparent! Lots of detail. I'm hearing things in Star Wars I've simply never heard before. Superb surround panning that does indeed appear to be 'fuller with more body & punch' than the Rotel could ever hope to achieve (I'm being brutally honest here as is my way). Overall sound is exceedingly 'movie-like' if that makes any sense at all. Can't wait to try music on this puppy but the impressions are that this equipment is indeed the next level we were looking for. Sub has undergone a noticable transition almost from slightly boomy/aggressive to subtley fuller with more body and presence.

Pictures and full review to follow guys. Give us a few hours of playing :W

BladeRnR

[Sithlord]

The finer points of tuning and tweaking have been completed. I'm using the Kingcats b/w the Krell TAS and the Arcam AV8, Audioquest for the DVD-
A and SACD but the later will have to wait as the dvd player doesn't do SACD neither does the AV8. That will teach me for not reading all the technical info first ops: . Not to worry as the ratio is 90/10 in favor of movies my brother is the 10 I'm not a big music listerner. I've just watched the movie The day After Tomorrow and it sounded simply surperb and looked fantastic as well. It was all very simple to setup the dvd player does not have all the extensive video options that the Denon A11 and Marantz DV-12 had but who cares as the picture is breathtaking. Looking forward to getting a projector and screen as that is the true test for picture quality for a dvd player but that will have to wait unitl next year. Until then I will continue to test more material and I will keep you all informed. Thanks for listening.

[jimmyp58]

I am surprised the AV8 doesn't do SACD. If I would have purchased it, I would have gotten burned too because I didn't read that either.

The one concern I had with the AV8 is that it's been out for ~ 2 years and there hasn't been an upgrade to the software nor is there any planned (according to the dealer I spoke with). This aside, the sound is superb and even on its best day, a Rotel pre/pro (even the 1098) can't come close.

Their DVD players are legendary. It is a shame that they don't do SACD. If I ever get rid of my Denon DVD-5900, Arcam is the way to go. Hopefully by then they will have the capacity to do SACD.

Happy listening (watching)!

Jim

[Sithlord]

Your right Jimmy the difference in sound that I'm hearing compared to the Rotel is quite substantial. Everything just has more body to it and the bass has become so much tighter. My hat goes off to Rotel for bringing out their pre-pro as it can't be touched for price and it was an excellent product. I've read on a forum that Arcam are working on a firmware update to put on DPL11x and it wont be long. I guess there hasn't been anything important enough to bother with updating it until now. I mean it has pretty much all the major surround formats and with THX processing which is amazing when hooked up to my M&K S-5000 THX speaker System. It's a match made in heaven 8) . I'm not too fussed about not having SACD as I own 1 title Pinkfloyds DSOTM, I'm not a huge music person. Just a change in topic, how have you found the Silclear? Mine still hasn't arrived yet :roll: . Looking forward to hearing what you think.

Anyway I've still got alot of testing and burning in to do so.... :driving:

[jimmyp58]

I haven't noticed any difference with the SilClear :cry: but fortunately, it didn't cost a whole lot.

It's good to hear Arcam is doing the upgrade and you're right, there hasn't been too much to date that needed to come out that it didn't already have. I guess the dealer I was dealing with didin't have the most up-to-date info (not surprisingly --- he's a total buffoon). What about a digital link for DVD-A? Do you know if they are going to do an upgrade for this?

Anyhow, let me know if you hear differences when your SilClear arrives.

Jim

[Sithlord]

Don't know anything about them doing a digital link for DVD-A. It's a pity you haven't noticed any improvement with the silclear I paid $60 for mine after money conversion to Aussie dollar. Again I'm not too fussed if they don't do a digital link for DVD-A as I don't own any and don't plan too. My brother on the other hand...I can't believe the DV-29 dvd player has such an amazing picture even better than the Marantz I had and it's got none of the indepth settings that the Denon A11 had either. Plug and play and easy to setup a true testament to Arcams engineers :T

P.S Are there any plans for future firmware updates for your pre-pro?

[LEVESQUE]

I'm really suprised that the Arcam, using the Zoran Vaddis5 chip can give you a better picture then the Marantz you were using (Pio 59avi clone). The Zoran deinterlacing is not to the level of Faroudja and Silicon better solutions, and not even near the latest Pio proprietary chip.

For audio, the Arcam is maybe better then the Marantz, but for PQ, the Zoran chip is a step down. The Zoran solution didn't do well in the Secrets shoot-out, compared to Silicon or Faroudja alternatives

[jimmyp58]

By the end of year, all indications are that Bryston will be releasing the DPLIIx upgrade and they will also be releasing the digital link for multi-channel audio.

I am a tad disappointed about the SilClear but with all the dollars invested in high-quality interconnects and high-end gear, it would be pretty tough for some silver-gel goop to add a noticeable improvement as advertised.

Jim

[David Meek]

I am a tad disappointed about the SilClear but with all the dollars invested in high-quality interconnects and high-end gear, it would be pretty tough for some silver-gel goop to add a noticeable improvement as advertised.

Guys, possible improvements aside, does the SilClear help in long term protection of the connections from moisture, dust, etc?

[jimmyp58]

Sithlord:

Perhaps I am misunderstood, but I just read the AV8's info on Arcam's website and it states it does 8-channel DVD-A AND SACD. Maybe this is a misprint?

Jim

[Steve Goff]

The AV8 has a 7.1 channel analog input for DVD Audio and SACD sources, but does not have a digital connection for DVD Audio or SACD. Moreover, the DACs used in the AV8, the Wolfson WM8740s, do not do DSD natively. These DACs are also used in the DVD player, and are one of the reasons that it does not do SACD. Moreover, the Vaddis V does not decode SACD, if I'm remembering correctly, so is not a universal solution. But they think that it is the best decoder for DVD video and audio, and their player is certainly one of the best sounding.

[jimmyp58]

Steve:

So if I had an AV8 and a universal player (e.g., Denon DVD-5900) and I connected this unit to the AV8 via analog interconnects, I would only be able to play DVD-A's (and not SACDs)?

Jim

[Sithlord]

Review

Levesque is it your job to put down other peoples equipment the first chance you get?? :roll: You haven't tried or tested this BRAND NEW player by Arcam and I'm telling you IMO it's better than the 2 previous players that I have owned in both picture and sound. Please do some reading/testing before posting. Click on the link below for an extensive review on both the Arcam AV8 and the DV-27 dvd player (which is their old player now mine replaces it) by Widescreen magazine who are known to be very hard on equipment and dvd reviews.

http://www.audiophilesystems.com/arcam/ReviewsAV8.htm

If thats not enough the Audio place that this gear is sold is in their reference system and they have some serious hardware. They sell the Denon A11 and of course the Marantz DV-12s2 and in their opinion they very much preferred the Arcam which is why I went for it. It will be interesting to see what SECRETS have to say about Arcams flagship player when they get around to testing it. The store said that it was a big improvement over the DV-27 which they have had in their system since it came out and they are very picky.

Levesque I know that my setup isn't the most ideal way to test equipment (which you clearly pointed out to me in the past) but when you don't change anything but a player and you notice differences in picture quality straight away then what can I say. It's simply better.

Ps. Interesting what Secrets had to say about the differences b/w the 3910 and the 5900:

"The test results for the DVD-3910 were almost identical to the DVD-5900. This player uses the same modes for progressive scan playback. Auto 2 should be used with PAL or video-based material, and Auto 1 should be used for normal NTSC film-based DVDs. The big surprise was the utter lack of the “macroblocking” artifact associated with the Faroudja chipset. This problem was quite obvious on the DVD-5900".

In the end I love the picture that the Arcam is delivering and thats what counts.

[BladeRnR]

Steve:

So if I had an AV8 and a universal player (e.g., Denon DVD-5900) and I connected this unit to the AV8 via analog interconnects, I would only be able to play DVD-A's (and not SACDs)?

Jim

I believe you would indeed be able to play SACD's on the Denon DVD-5900 because it would be using processing in the DVD Source and not the Processor. On the back of the Arcam AV8 Multi-Channel Inputs it is clearly labelled "DVD-A/SACD Input". It's just the DV29 does not support SACD Processing which I'm rather annoyed at. No matter. I'll probably buy a separate for this purpose (Perhaps the Marantz S8400 I think it's called).

Cheers

[BladeRnR]

I'm really suprised that the Arcam, using the Zoran Vaddis5 chip can give you a better picture then the Marantz you were using (Pio 59avi clone). The Zoran deinterlacing is not to the level of Faroudja and Silicon better solutions, and not even near the latest Pio proprietary chip.

For audio, the Arcam is maybe better then the Marantz, but for PQ, the Zoran chip is a step down. The Zoran solution didn't do well in the Secrets shoot-out, compared to Silicon or Faroudja alternatives

Levesque stop thread crapping. You know very well the response you're are going to get posting such 'inaccurate' information as you did above. If you have something pertinent to say then provide links, white papers et all to support your view. Simply saying 'Oh these people said it's better' is just not good enough in this forum (Given the expertise that abounds).

Better still please don't post in our threads at all. I'm going to be perfectly blunt with you. I don't like what you have posted now or in the past - at all. Your posts are trite attacks on other peoples equipment and display no forethought or due consideration. You must be a real riot at parties :roll:

For the rest of you I'm going to be posting my 'impressions' sometime today along with some pictures.

[jimmyp58]

Thanks for clearing that up. Perhaps I misread or misunderstood Sithlord's comment that the Arcam player didn't do SACD nor the AV8.

[Sithlord]

You didn't misunderstand anything Jimmy both units do not decode SACD. I'm not sure but the 5900 should do the decoding for the SACD once plugged into the analogues on the AV8. When I owned the A11 and had that pugged into the Rotel 1098 (Which doesn't decode SACD) all I needed to do was use the EXT setting (1098 analogue inputs)) and the player did the processing for the SACD. I would think that the same principle would apply with the Arcam AV8. Hope this helps.

[LEVESQUE]

Guys. You are overeacting a bit... relax...

I was just quoting Kris Deering from Secrets directly. You know... the guy doing the Secrets shoot-out.

So I will quote him for you here: "the de-interlacing job the Vaddis chip does is just not to the level of the Silicon Image and Faroudja solutions."

No need to argue. It's a fact that Zoran deinterlacing is not up to the best solutions by Silicon and Faroudja. I was not talking about the 5900. I was talking about your previous Marantz having a better chip then your Arcam. Just a reality check. Not "inacurate information". You can always send a PM to Kris if you want to check with him.

I'm happy you love it. It's an awesome player. Have fun. Hope you will keep that one until the HD players will finally be available. :B

You seems to both suffers from the same sickness I have... upgradatis acutis! :T

[Steve Goff]

Steve:

So if I had an AV8 and a universal player (e.g., Denon DVD-5900) and I connected this unit to the AV8 via analog interconnects, I would only be able to play DVD-A's (and not SACDs)?

Jim

No, you would be able to listen to any type of disc that the player would play.

[Steve Goff]

LEVESQUE is telling the truth, unfortunately. The Vaddis as a deinterlacer cannot hold a candle to the Faroudja chips (the FLI2200 and FLI2310) or the Silican Image SIL504. This is plain fact, though the difference will be most noticeable on video-based material.

[LEVESQUE]

And directly from the last shoot-out at Secrets (Kris is talking about your player...):

"Arcam is currently releasing a successor that features an HDMI output which supports 480p and 480i like the previously reviewed DV-79. Unfortunately, Arcam has dropped the Silicon Image de-interlacer and has decided to rely on the Zoran chips' de-interlacing abilities, which are not near as good. I hope they reconsider this with future offerings."

Sad but true. It's not because I did argue with you guys on another subjects a while ago that I'm not beeing honest with you here.

[jimmyp58]

O.K. Sithlord, I thought you were implying you couldn't send any SACD signal to the AV8 because it was incapable of accepting it.

My misunderstanding.

[Sithlord]

Apparently the DV-29 has better video DACs which may improve the picture even though they are still using the Zoran chip. I find it hard to believe that the Arcam engineers would go backwards in video performance from the DV-27 when that went so well with the Silicon chip. There must be a reason why they decided to drop the Silicon chip knowing that Secrets did the review and said that the Zoran was not up to par with other chip sets. I will investigate more on this and will report later. Maybe it's not the same Zoran chip set that was reviewed earlier it may have been improved as I'm seeing a much better picture than I've seen on the Marantz. Until Secrets test a DV-29 it's open to debate as to it's video performance compared to other offerings.

Sorry Levesque for jumping down your throat before but you seen to focus on the negative all the time when I buy something new. Maybe you can just say nice purchase and enjoy.

Anyway I will continue to try more material and post my findings.

PS. No worries Jimmy

[BladeRnR]

Well I've had a good time to listen to the Arcam combination so here are my thoughts. The units aren't burned in yet so I'd suggest it'll be a good 4 weeks before we hear the best from these units. So far though I'm staggered

Arcam AV8

- Superb build quality.
- Very nice display that's relatively easy to read although the font could be larger.
- Nicely proportioned remote that's well layed out with exquisite blue backlighting that's a boon in the dark and not as overt as green tends to be.
- Logical Menu's that provide all the information the User needs including THX Ultra2 modes and Subwoofer Boundary Gain Ultra2 mode.
- Support for 3 Subwoofers.
- No relay clicking when changing modes/signal detection like the Rotel 1098 (I found that very disconcerting myself but Sithlord didn't mind it).

Arcam DV29

- Superb build quality
- Very smooth/solid tray action. Deep recess so discs don't slide all over the place until clamped.
- Lovely clear Cathode display.
- Very average remote so far as response goes. How a High-End component can suffer the ignominy of such an obvious oversight is totally beyond me. Arcam really need to fix this as they roll this unit out over time. Fortunately all functions are replicated on the infinitely superior AV8 remote.
- Brilliant Menu's that are clear and concise. Adjustments allow very versatile setup to cater for all room acoustics. Oddly there are almost no video adjustments and enhancement switches to play with. I found out why soon enough - you don't need them!
- Fast Menu disc access, chapter and search. Probably faster than the Marantz D12 and that's saying something. About 1/2 a second layer change delay.
- Full Specification HDMI output that include Video AND Audio streams. This is a world first for DVD Players as previous implementations only catered for the Video half of the HDMI equation.
- Picture. Those that read our thoughts on the Marantz D12-S2 already know how good that player was. The Arcam DV29 is quite literally in another league entirely and leaves for dead anything I've seen previously. Clarity, detail, Zero Moire/Macroblocking artifcats, gorgeous colour, smooth contrast, silky blacks and brilliant white levels are just the start. Finding Nemo looked so 3-Dimensional I thought the characters were going to leap off the screen. Just watching The Day After Tomorrow made me want to reach for a blanket! Skin tones (As the Widescreen review suggested) are so gobsmackingly accurate it's scary. I can finally see transitions in skin tone rather than just video chips 'approximation' or 'interpretation' of what they should be. Overall picture has a lovely 'smoothness' and less atificial hardness/harshness than I've seen on other players. This also reflects Widescreens opinion.

Sound

I'll combine my thoughts on the sound between the 2 components because we're not separating them into Analogue or Digital connections. We're now using the King CAT interconnects, Audioquest Optical but have yet to try the Silver King CAT COAX Aussie Geoff loaned us (We'll get around to it Geoff :T). Speaker cable is still Audioquest Slate connected to M&K THX5000 with SVS B4+ Subwoofer. Primary movie setting is either DD with THX Processing or DTS with THX Processing. Interestingly Arcam included the ability to reduce DTS tracks by -10dB because they suggest they run hotter than their DD counterparts. Fortunately if this is the case you can allocate a preset for either 0dB or -10dB depending on your tastes.

The first thing that hits you about the Arcam combo is the absolutely solid and immersive soundfield that envelops you. If the surround field were actually a Force Field from a Sci-Fi movie then the listener would be impervious to all outside influences! The Surround effect is no longer an artificial 'illusion' or something that a part of your mind must suspend belief to interpret or process. It's just THERE. As Widescreen suggested (So elegantly) it's as if a new space is carved out of the room your in and the walls just disappear. It's THAT good. So far we have listened to:


Star Wars - A New Hope, Star Wars - Empire Strikes Back, Super Speedway (DTS), Kill Bill Vol 1 (DTS), The Day After Tomorrow (DTS), Finding Nemo (DTS), Police - (DTS) & Monsters Inc (DTS).

Bass is just a totally different experience with this processor and I suspect it's the THX Processing at work. It just sounds so solid and punchy it's unbelievable. And so so smooth without any pulsing or boomy attributes. Surround panning and clarity and just crystalline without ANY hint of harshness or sibilance which has annoyed me to some extent in past DVD/Processor combinations. This is like honey & butter on a fresh, hot crumpet - sound so good you want to eat it! A nice forward Midrange that makes dialogue really central to a movie - no straining to hear anything amidst the tumult of sound during busy action scenes. In short this is without doubt the best surround I've yet heard on ANY system and this isn't even a treated room!

If you have the means I highly recommend the Arcam AV8 as your primary component. To really hear your DVD's (And CD's) the way they're meant to be heard add the Arcam DV29. Apart from the Krell/Meridian/Bryston components I can't see anything that could better this.

Some pics (I know they're not ultra detailed):





P.S We've never considered the Bryston Jimmy because it's always been exceedingly expensive for some reason (As all Bryston gear is) and on features alone could not justify the added expense. And from memory you had to buy an extra Video switcher (Or some other component) to make it a complete solution. From memory it was going to cost $5300AU to go Bryston and the Arcam (all up) cost $4000AU with the Rotel 1098/Marantz D12-S2 changeover. Besides that we had to work in with our existing dealer who is rather kind to us and all the new dealer who really wanted our business and slashed a significant amount off the price.

[jimmyp58]

Nice summary Blade and very eloquent if I may add....sounds like your early experience is just like my audition. That being said, in my opinion, the Arcam AV8 is far superior to the Krell high-end pre/pro (the Krell amps are far better than the Arcams though). I can't comment on the Meridian but trust me, the Bryston SP 1.7 (IMHO of course!) ranks right up there with the Arcam. It was a tough decision for me as the Arcam is THAT good. Help a brother out here and at least say "apart from Bryston/Meridian components I can't see anything that could better this". :W :T

If I ever wanted to change out my Bryston SP 1.7, more than likely the ONLY other pre/pro I'd consider would be the Arcam AV8's successor.

Happy listening....ENJOY!!

Jim

[will1066]

Wow, I've been following this, and it makes me want to go out and get the AV8. My CD player is an FMJ CD23, which I adore, so I'm familiar with the company.

Even though the AV8 has been out a couple of years, my video isn't anywhere near up to snuff anyway, so I'm not looking for the latest tech in video switching. I'm basically a sound guy who's into HT for the sound. I've been thinking about Krell (Showcase) but now will start lusting after the Arcam. [] I just might do it.

[sikoniko]

wait for the av9 will! you can do it!

[will1066]

I don't know, sikoniko. I feel that upgraditis flaring up again! I'm gonna brush the dust off my Arcam literature and stare at it for awhile. LOL

[Sithlord]

I'm wondering what the AV9 could have that the AV8 doesn't? Probably an HDMI connection and a digital link for DVD-A but thats all I can think of as the AV8 has it all...well almost needs DP11x then it's complete. Just got to be patient for that firmware that their working on. God if we always waited for the next new piece of equipment we wouldn't buy anything. :E.. just got light headed for a moment then.

[jimmyp58]

Thanks Bladernr....I was teasin' you! I certainly recall that you guys in Australia get nailed by Bryston hence your reason for not considering it. Thanks for the edit but you didn't have to do it!

P.S. I never got the separate video switcher as I don't need it.

[Adz]

I suspect Arcam's newest pre/pro (if it is called the AV9) will have its own built-in upsampler (to converts sample rates of all incoming digital signals to 192 kHz, much like the D1).

[Rags]

There is a train of thought from Arcam FMJ users here in London when comparing the DV27A and the DV29 that the DV29 offers the the superior picture when using its HDMI out but in a straight component shootout the DV27A is better. The loss of the deidicated SIL504 board has many DV27 owners not wanting to "upgrade" to the newer model but I wonder how many have actually tried the DV29. In the UK the price of the new model is lower than the outgoing one - this may simply be a trait of lower DVD player prices but it may also be a result of getting rid of the SIL board. After all Arcam did charge about $540 to add the SIL board to non FMJ players using the Zoran chip.

BladeRnR - given your posts on the UK forum it seems like you are asking the same question. Either way Arcam are an astounding company that makes excellent products and Id rather have the newer model on the basis of newer must be better rather than an outgoing one. Maybe thats a poor way to think about it but its just my way. I currently use a DV79 via HDMI to my 50" Pioneer plasma and am seriously considering the DV29. One thing that Arcam definately have to sort out is their DVD remotes - they suck big time !

Jim - theres been talk of Bryston upgrading the SP1.7 to use the Texas Aureus chip - have you heard anything about this ?

[jimmyp58]

Rags:

Haven't heard of this but I can do some research.

Jim

[BladeRnR]

There is a train of thought from Arcam FMJ users here in London when comparing the DV27A and the DV29 that the DV29 offers the the superior picture when using its HDMI out but in a straight component shootout the DV27A is better. The loss of the deidicated SIL504 board has many DV27 owners not wanting to "upgrade" to the newer model but I wonder how many have actually tried the DV29. In the UK the price of the new model is lower than the outgoing one - this may simply be a trait of lower DVD player prices but it may also be a result of getting rid of the SIL board. After all Arcam did charge about $540 to add the SIL board to non FMJ players using the Zoran chip.

BladeRnR - given your posts on the UK forum it seems like you are asking the same question. Either way Arcam are an astounding company that makes excellent products and Id rather have the newer model on the basis of newer must be better rather than an outgoing one. Maybe thats a poor way to think about it but its just my way. I currently use a DV79 via HDMI to my 50" Pioneer plasma and am seriously considering the DV29. One thing that Arcam definately have to sort out is their DVD remotes - they suck big time !

Jim - theres been talk of Bryston upgrading the SP1.7 to use the Texas Aureus chip - have you heard anything about this ?

Rags it was my Brother Sithlord who was using my account on the AV Forums who asked the question regarding the DV27 vs DV29. We are spekaing with John Dawson of Arcam to see if he can shed any light on the subject. From what we've read the DV29's HDMI output is far superior to the DV27 but alas we cannot verify that as we don't yet have an HDMI Projector/Display.

Cheers

[LEVESQUE]

HDMI is just a transport, and the player still use the de-interlacer. So it will still use the Zoran chip. HDMI is "superior" to the component connection because you are avoiding some digital to analog conversion in the path. With a CRT, it's a mix-bag and results vary greatly from one CRT-display to another. HDMI will be "far superior" on a digital display like LCD, LCOS, DLP...

With one player, using component or the DVI (HDMI) connection can sometimes give different PQ, even if it's the same machine, depending on the display. That's what I was talking about when talking with you about the 5900 compared to the Marantz you did own, because you were comparing the component connection of both, that was, IMHO, not showing what those players can really do, because of all those conversions made in your CRT-display. The guy at Arcam just confirm this by saying the HDMI connection is "far better"... But this "far better" is for digital displays, not usually a CRT-display...

Keep us updated on this. I'm really interested on Arcam answers on that subject. Did you ask them why they did choose to go back with the Zoran solution instead of the Silicon chip? You could point them to the last Secrets shoot-out where Kris is stating that it's a step back for Arcam.

But still, the Silicon chip will give a better PQ (compared to the Zoran) if both were through HDMI. That's why I said your Marantz (Pio Elite 59avi clone) was probably yeilding a better PQ over HDMI (or DVI) then the new Arcam using the Zoran chip, because of the better de-interlacer (Pio proprietary solution).

[David Meek]

Gentlemen, just wanted to say thanks for playing nice in the sandbox.

:tired: . . .going back to sleep now. Carry on. . .

[will1066]

Hey guys,

Just wonderin'... what's the firmware version number for the AV8, and what do you do on the unit to find out (press a button, etc.)? If I remember, there haven't been any firmware updates, right? Thanks in advance.

[Sithlord]

You press CD/DVD/OK all together on the front of the AV8 to see the lastest firmware which is Version 3. I read on the official Arcam site that they are having trouble with the Version 4 which adds DPL11X and that it will be awhile before they can work around the problems. The good news is that they just released new software for the DV-29 which improves the remote response thank god for that. I put it on and it's much better. Here is a post from one of the guys working on it :


Hi,

We have had alot of problems with this code update as the new code will not work on our hardware. It works on the evaluation board and on some other hardware configurations but the way the AV8 uploads seems to be a problem.

We sent an AV8 with simplified code to Crystal semiconductors so they could evaluatethe problem, unfortunately the person working on this problem resigned. So this approach has failed for the time being. (we weren't at all sure how they were going to work on it anyway, since they don't have the same microcontroller development tools as us, but it was what they asked for)

On Friday the UK support rep came in and Carl our software engineer demonstrated the problem. (so at least they know it is real) They hooked up a logic analyser and have now determined that the problem is to do with the crystal code causing interupts during the load sequence which are corrupting the upload as the micro can't service them fast enough.

Carl is trying to find a work arround for this as it seems unlikely that we will get a fix from the software team at Crystal in any reasonable time frame. So far it is not easy. It looks like the reason the Crystal evaluation board works is that they upload the code to the DSP very slowly so the micro has time to service the interupts this wold make the time between source changes or input stream changes far to long. So we may have to wait for the code to be modified.

Please also bare in mind that once we have got the code loaded there is still about 3 months work to actually reconfigure it to work in the AV8, so the software update is I am afraid quite a long way off.

Regards,
Andrew
__________________
Andrew Dutton.
Senior Engineer.
AV Team Leader.

[will1066]

Thanks for the info. I missed out on a great price and oppty. on a never-used display AV8, which was the reason I asked, since I wanted to make sure it had the latest firmware. But someone else beat me to the punch.

[luszer]

will1066

I saw that one on A'gon as well. I was actually looking for a dv27A and I think I missed the boat

Ron

[will1066]

I feel your pain. If the one that sold were black, I'd be even more disappointed.

Will

[luszer]

Looking for Recommendation.....

Has anyone auditioned the AVR300?

Should I go for an AVR 300 over my current Rotel 1068 rb991/993 setup

Will I experience a more refined, silky smooth sound over the Rotel combo? Possibly bi-amp the front channels as my set up is only 5.1.

Using N805 and HTM2, HT 35%, 2 channel 65%. Also using the DV89.

Any experience or thoughts are welcomed, I feel the AV8 and matching amp is costly for me to swallow.

Regards, Ron