Infrared gymnastics

[brucek]

I have a question and a problem that is created from being lazy..... ops:

When I am lying on my couch in the lazy mode, most of my equipment is hidden from my Pronto remote by my coffee table. Usually I can point it at the ceiling and with a few attempts the commands will get to the desired piece of equipment. Sometimes I hold it up in the air and try and point it toward the equipment.

This is a problem with macros though. If a command get missed, its a bummer.

Does anyone use an IR device that doesn't require pointing the Pronto at their equipment, but also works when they are pointing it at the equipment..... Suggestions other than get off your ass and point the remote would be appreciated.. :roll:

[Bent]

I have a small Xantech hidden link system that I use for relaying my IR commands, but I have also utilized an Applied Digital Inc. Ocelot automation controller to ease the burden of my remote's IR macros. I can use a single IR command to acll upon the ocelot to do the IR macros... since the ocelot is also tied to the Xantech's emmiters, there is no chance that any component will ever "miss" a command.

[Kevin P]

You could always move the coffee table.

But seriously, Bent's suggestion is a good one. We use the Xantech Hidden Link in a lot of our installs. It's a must if you keep your equipment behind doors or in a closet. It's easy to install, there's a receiver about the size of a pack of cigarettes; place this on top of your TV or outside your cabinet. It's wired to a distribution block, which accepts up to four IR emitters which are then stuck to the front of each of your components. If you need more than 4 emitters you can get double emitters (two emitters on one plug).

The trickiest part is finding the IR sensors on your equipment. The sensor isn't always where they say it is. Best results are achieved with the emitter directly over the sensor.

Some gear such as Denon receivers now include IR jacks on the back that can be plugged directly into the Xantech distribution block, eliminating the need to use an emitter on that component.

[PiDD]

Do you have a htpc? If so you could use a Tira2

It can receive an IR command and send out a IR command or a series of commands (marco's) using Girder.

I use a ethernet capable Pocket PC so I have about a 400' range!

[DrJRapp]

You'll find this solution kind of odd, but be assured it does work. I have my equipment rack positioned behind my seating area and could not see both the screen and the equipment if I pointed the remote backwards. IR is light, light we can't see but light nevertheless, and it behaves like light in most circumstances. My solution was to mount a small framed decorative mirror besides my RPTV above one of my tower speakers. I aim the remote at the mirror and the signal is reflected back to the equipment. The key is to have the equipment aligned properly in parallel with the mirror. Works like a charm!

[brucek]

Thanks for the replies fellas... Yeah I actually thought of that mirror trick Jerry, but it would have to be mounted on the ceiling, so I let the idea go. 8O

I like the look of the Xantech system. The receiver would easily be hit on top of my TV, then the distributer block would mount on the rear of my racks less than the required seven feet away. I really like the IR transparent transmitter buds that allow the hand remote to still pass information through to the equipments receiver.

I see smarthome sells it as a kit. I'd like to find a Canadian distributer, but I can still 'click' it from the USA if necessary.

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/MultiRoom-Audio/xantech/Xantech-IR-Receivers/Item/291-KIT/

I find since I added my Jukebox (which sits on my bottom shelf of my racks), and the addition of SNL software in my Pronto, I have to point the Pronto down at the Jukebox while trying to read the small SNL lettering on the Pronto screen and push the button at the correct spot, well it's a bit difficult. If you miss one macro command in an SNL macro, you're toast.

This Xantech system seems to be the answer. I need 5 transmitters, so I would get one double and that would do the trick.....

brucek

[Bent]

Bruce, are you in Sask?
(or west of Sask?)

[brucek]

nope, ontario....but smart-home-usa ships from new york, so not so bad...

[Bam!]

what you got against mirrors on the ceiling ?

:W

[Clive]

Mirrors!?

BAM.............wrong room buddy!!!!!!!!!!

Actually the mirror or even posters worked for me at my last house. My Lutron IR light switch/dimmer was at the back of the room so I just had to point at a poster in front, worked every-time.

I also like the the xantech solution. However, I've noticed a CANADIAN contact phone number on their web site don't know if you've reffered to it.

[brucek]

Xantech mini review

Hey Guys,

Well, I purchased and installed the Xantech Hidden Link system this week. After searching around and finding a local distributer in Canada it became apparent that the price online in the States was far better (by more than half), so I ordered it online from a place in Virginia called www.enhancedht.com....

They have a pretty good site and the price was $79.95 for the system kit which included the receiver, connecting block, power supply and four (blink type) single IR emitters. In the end I decided I wanted to control six pieces of equipment so I purchased two extra double blink type IR emitters to make up the six required. I'll use the two single emitters (that I don't use) as spares.

The control block I purchased allows for a total of four double emitters which allows you to control eight pieces of equipment in total. The 2 extra double emitters were $11.95 each, so with another $11.95 for air shipping, the total cost was US$115.35. It came in 8 days to my door from the time of clicking the purchase. No doubt customs will eventually send me a bill for the tax. My Canadian Visa bill shows $150.37

http://www.enhancedht.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EHT&Category_Co de=IR

Here's a diagram of the hookup.




It's very easy to install. I put the small black tabletop IR receiver on top of my RPTV, so it is very easy from any position to hit the receiver with my Pronto. No more pointing at the equipment. In fact it has an off axis spec of 45 degrees, but I find it so sensitive, there is just no way it misses any hits from my Pronto remote unless I put a put a cloth over it. I can lie on the couch and press the Pronto screen in front of me and the system gets every command. No mirrors on the ceiling, no posters on the wall for reflections. You could hide your equipment behind doors or put it in another room and the system will take care of it too.

A single wire is connected from the IR receiver (fed around behind my RPTV) to the connecting block that I mounted behind my equipment rack. The power supply plugs into the connecting block.

Then I ran the four IR emitter wires to the pieces of equipment from the connecting block and stuck the self stick tiny black emitters over the IR receivers of each piece of equipment (mine were easy to find). The emitters are also IR transparent, so you can also still receive infrared hits from your remote and from the Xantech system at the same time. You're not likely to miss a command with this system in place. These emitters are the blink type so they also blink a visible red light each time they are activated (as does the IR receiver itself). You can purchase the non blink type, but it's a really nice light show when all six of these things blink every time you use your remote - very weird.

Actually, on one piece of equipment (my pip tv monitor), I had some difficulty finding the IR receiver. An easy trick is to just hook up one IR emitter to the connecting block and with the receiver and your remote hidden under a cloth, move the single emitter around on the front panel of the offending equipment until you find the best spot for reception. Seemed to work.

The emitters aren't too ugly and the wires are easily hidden from view.
Here's a picture of my processor and SACD player with the IR emitters in place....







Here's a picture of the IR Receiver and the connecting block:




Here's a picture of the system hooked up with power supply and a single IR emitter. See how the heavy wire changes to a very teeny wire as it goes to the emitter. This small wire is slightly stiff and helps in the hiding.

Note I was firing my remote at the IR receiver and the receiver and emitter telltales are lit up.





Anyway, if you have any obstructed views, hidden equipment or just don't like having to point your remote directly at your equipment, this is a pretty good solution and a fun toy too..... :W

brucek

[Andrew Pratt]

Glad it worked out for you Bruce. I'm using essentially the same system for my Zone two application...though like you I sometimes have issues in the media room so one of these days I'm going to install a IR receiver in there and plug it into the connection block I have installed (or directly into the Rotel and loop the IR commands though it)

[windwaves]

a question on this. I have a major problem with the remote of my NAD not working properly so I was thinking whether I could use the Hidden Link where however I would connect the NAD directly to the Connecting Box via the NAD's IR IN, instead of using the Blinks, hence bypassing NAD's remote sensor. Is this possible ? what kind of plug do I need for the NAD ? I cannot tell by simpling looking at it and it does not specify on the manual ?

Also, do you guys know why my NAD (T763) has 1 IR IN plug and 2 IR OUT ? what on earth are the IR OUT for ?

thx

[Bent]

My HArman Kardon AVR 525 has an IR in as well as output jacks, the manual specifically states that it is compatible with Buffalo, Xantech hardware.

there is no reason that I can think of that your NAD wouldn't be the same, but I'd check the manual first, then if that leads nowhere, then contact NAD's tech supt.

[Chris D]

windwaves, funny you should ask. I'm setting up my Xantech system as we speak. (or as I type, I guess) I'm connecting my Parasound Halo pre/pro direct to the connecting block via a 1/8" male-to-male plug cord. Yours should work the same. As far as the IR out, that's probably acting kind of like another connecting block, passing out the IR information that you're sending into it.

[brucek]

windwaves,

I would think any IR input on a receiver would comply to a simple standard.

The Xantech standard male 3.5mm mono mini-plug have the tip as positive (+) and the sleeve as negative (-). I can't imagine NAD not hooking up its jack this way, but as Bent says you could contact them.

brucek

[windwaves]

bent, chris and brucek, thanks a million for the encouraging advice ! I am almost at a state of depression with the NAD. It is just unbelievable how poorly the remote works - and it must be the receiver itself since the same happens with my universal Harmony remote which works perfectly with the rest of the equipment.
As I mention I am just hoping to the direct connection to the IR IN input will solve the problem. I should really get rid of this thing, but the sound is good.

Now I just wish there was a place in Manhattan where I could just go and buy the Xantech system, I just can't take it anymore.

So, assuming it is established I can do a direct connection to the connectin block, where do I find the cable with the right plug ? I undertstand the system only comes with the IR blinks.

best,
gio

[LEVESQUE]

I'm also using the Xantech Hidden Link with 2 connecting blocks and blinking mouses. The price was really high in Canada so I did order it from the USA also.

My Hidden link is in front behind GOM totally "hidden" and connected to the connecting blocks with 35" of CAT5e cable, to control my sealed rack in the back of the room. Works like a charm.

I use RatShack 3.5mm mini-plug to connect the 2 connecting blocks and some equipment that can be directly connected to the connecting blocks w/o using a mouse.

Highly recommend.

[windwaves]

Ok, so hopefully one last questions before I order - I obviously was not able to find anyone in manhattan who has this thing. Anyways, when I order the Hidden Link, what do I have to ask in order to make sure I get one (that is all I need for now) cable to go direct to the Nad Receiver IR plug ? Levesque you mention RatShack 3.5mm mini-plug, is that a plug or a plug with cable ? Would that be what I need to ask for ? How can I ensure these plug work ok on my Nad (again, the manual does not speficy at all what type the IR plugs are).
Thx again,

gio

[Bent]

I don't know what the model number of the plug is you need, I made my own out of a mono earphone cord and a RAtShack mono solder on plug.

[Chris D]

Levesque, it's good to see you back here! I'm also extending my Xantech via Cat 5e cable, planning on just taking 1/8" plugs that I bought from Radio Shack and soldering them on each end of the Cat 5e cable. Probably just use half of the strands in the 5e for one terminal, and the other half for the other one. Did you run into any tricks? Or do you have any "gotchas" to watch out for when doing this?

windwaves, for you, this actually is very simple. All you need to do is BUY a single mono cable with a 1/8" male plug on each end, in whatever length you need to plug one end into the Xantech block and the other into the receiver. (I assume the NAD takes a 1/8" plug as well) Don't worry about trying to modify a flasher mouse cord to make this work. You can even find this in places like Target and such, and you don't need to make one unless you're trying to save a very few pennies and like the work.

Heheheheeee.... somebody said "NAD".... hheheheeee.... :rofl:

[AndrewM]

I bought something like this;

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/MultiRoom-Audio/X10Pro-Infrared/Item/PEX01/

Although mine was bought at Circuit City for a little less $$, and I'm quite happy with it. My setup has the components behind me and it has yet to miss anything.

Andrew

[LEVESQUE]

Chris is right.

I did extend my Xantech cable by just twisting and taping strands of the CAT5e cable with those of the Xantech after cutting the plug. Really easy to do.

A single cable with 2 male plugs of 3.5mm at Rat Shack from the Xantech connecting block to the pre/amp will do the trick.

My Bryston 4BSST doesn't have the "standard" 3.5mm female plug but 2 slots with small screws for a 12v strand and a ground. I did cut one end of the Rat Shack cable and did insert the 2 exposed strands in the Bryston plugs, and the other end in the connecting block.

[brucek]

Anyways, when I order the Hidden Link, what do I have to ask in order to make sure I get one (that is all I need for now) cable to go direct to the Nad Receiver IR plug ?

windwaves,

You may as well just order the kit.

http://www.enhancedht.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EHT&Category_Co de=IR

And then get the hard wire cable from Radio Shack.

Any cable with mono male 1/8" (3.5mm) phone plugs on the ends will do. Here's one at Radio Shack.



http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CT LG%5F007%5F002%5F003%5F007&product%5Fid=42%2D2420

Actually, most Sony equipment will come with one of these cables, so you might have one lying around. Sony includes it for their S-Link connections. Here's a picture.



I used the above cable to connect from my Xantech system to the IR input jack of my processor. Originally, I used the blink emitter on my processor, since I wasn't sure whether the IR jack would be compatible.
My Bryston processor manual was like yours in its rather sketchy details on this plug. I tend to think the lack of detail is simply because this is somewhat of a standard and all IR input jacks are the same.

Last week I found a phone plug cable in my junk (picture above) and hooked it to my processor directly and it works fine - so I removed the mouse emitter. Still use emitters on my SACD, CD, TV1, TV2, DSS.........

The next thing I would like to find out is whether I can connect the Xantech system directly to my Sony 777ES S-Link input. Has anyone tried this? I have no doubt that the S-Link input is standard IR, but I'm concerned about the bi-directional capability of this protocol. They use a Control-S, Control-A1 and Control-L protocol on this interface. I feel the input commands will work fine and the output commands should simply be ignored by the Xantech receiver and connected equipment, but I have to look into it some more before I simply 'plug it in'. I'm comfortable enough using the blink emitter on the Sony anyway - it's reliable and I like the light show it provides..... :E

brucek

[windwaves]

all,
thank you much for the advice !
I did, today, go to a "high end" dealer here in Manhattan who carries Zantech stuff and purchased the Hidden Link system. Everything is great, what a relief. But a few more details, questions.

I really wanted to use the equipment IR IN inputs, makes a hell of a lot of sense and each piece, I found, has such connection in the back. So, I went to RS and got 2 mono male 1/8" cables, but I in no way could get that to work. I tried to connect the block direct to the cable box, receiver and DVD player (IR IN) and it would never work with any of them. Any hint ? May be there is something that needs to be set up, I will check the instructions, but I know the NAD's manual does not say a thing.

Anyhow, with the help of my wife, I eventually found the right spot where to place the three mice on each unit and all is good. I am just curious about the "direct mode".

thanks again,
gio

[windwaves]

hey guys, any hint ?

[Chris D]

Sorry... I'm wondering what you mean when you say you couldn't get it to work. Did the plugs not fit? Not every system takes a 1/8" plug. Some take 3/32" or so. If it did fit, some people have reported units not taking a IR distributed signal unless it was POWERED. (i.e. you have to have your distribution block plugged into an electrical outlet)

[windwaves]

Hi Chris,
I have 3 components, the cable box, a Pioneer DVD and a NAD Receiver, the all seem to be taking the same plug, the 1/8 I got from RS apparently fits just fine. Everything was powered when I did the various tests. I just find it pretty strange that none of the component would work. So I was wondering whether I was missing something. I still don't get it.


gio

[brucek]

Sorry windwaves, hadn't seen your question.

I have to admit I don't understand why it doesn't work in the direct wired mode.

As Chris says, as long as the plug fits and the connecting block is powered and the IR blinker emitters work, then I can't see why if you replace an emitter with a direct connection that it doesn't work. The system simply repeats what your remote feeds it.

brucek

[windwaves]

ok thx anyway. I will have to try again. Not only I am curious, and now I really am, but also the fact is that the NAD's ir reception is so crappy that I bet it would be a lot better if I had a direct connection.

gio

[brucek]

But don't the emitters solve the problem 100%.......?

[windwaves]

yes, the emitters solve the problem virtually 100%, it took me a while to place the one for the NAD, but now it works, and I am happy with it. It was in good part a curiosity but the reason I say virtually is that for the NAD sometimes, just like before when I had the NAD in the same room and would point directly to it, I have to push the remote's buttons more then once to get it going, and this only for the NAD.

gio