DVD & pre/pro pairing

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jazznsoccer
    Member
    • Apr 2004
    • 87

    DVD & pre/pro pairing

    Ok - I've looked at DVD players and the best one out there seems to be the Denon 5900. However, this DVD player seems to be so good that I should bypass all of my pre/pro circuitry and just analog bypass on to my amp. Now the question is why should I buy a high end pre/pro (such as Rotel 1098) to go with this DVD player if all I need to do is pass the analog signal through to the amp?

    I am willing to pay for high quality components, but not willing to pay for redundant features.

    Here's what I'd like for a system:

    Good DVD transport with digital out for both video and audio (CD + maybe DVD-A).Don't load up with bells & whistles - just give me a good digital out signal (separate audio and video). Let the preprocessors handle decoding and conversion.

    Bravo D-1 gets good marks for video, but not for audio and is reasonably priced at $200. (It does not have DVD-A). But, if I have a good/great pre/pro is this really an issue? With digital out, isn't the audio quality almost completely determined by the pre/pro? And would I be better off getting a separate CD & DVD-A audio player?

    The Denon DVD 5900 gets great marks for both audio and video but has an MSRP of $2000 - a lot of money for a DVD player.

    So if I get the Denon - what's a good basic pre/pro?

    If I get a higher end pre/pro, what DVD would be a good match?

    Any suggestions for a straight CD player?

    I am more demanding for the audio out for music. HT surround sound is secondary. However, I do want good/great video playback.
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15259

    #2
    Well, you've got a basic conflict of interests here.

    While some older DVD layers actually put the full Dolby digital decoder in the player, that's rarely done these days. So getting by with just having a basic 5 channel analong input playback system won't really work- you're going to have to deal with whatever of DD and DTS playback decoding you want in your HT processor.

    Second, Pre-Pro's in 99.9% of the cases don't have a digital input which will accept a high res digital signal- i.e., DVD-A or SACD via Firewire. So, the audio decoding, in the vast majority of cases, will have to be done in the player. A few exceptions to this are starting to appear, supporting DVD-A over Firewire, for example; this a quasi proprietary solutions on high end components, such as Denon offers. OTOH, you can settle for routing just he DD signal from your DVD-A (encoded with same process as movies, sometimes at the maximum DD bit rate; this is included on DVD-A disks just for compatibility with standard DVD players)

    Last, there's the issue of just how good the overall reproduction is with existing hardware and multi-channel SACD and DVD-A vs. redbook CD on something like a first class $1K DAC. Depending on the capabilities of the rest of your system, life get's even dicier when you factor in this. I know from personal experience that a good DAC in this price range may offer better overall fidelity on CD than one of the $2-3K SACD players, and gives SACD on these players a good run for the money.



    The name of the game is jitter suppression, and the standard DD ouput on SPDIF is not very good at that game with existing chip sets.


    So, I fear redundancy is likely to be a part of our future for some time, unless you're willing to live with some significant compromises in some areas. There's just too much divergence in the directions and capability of available hardware to cover the HT and music bases truly with one set of hardware at a reasonable price point.

    ~Jon
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment

    • Brandon B
      Super Senior Member
      • Jun 2001
      • 2193

      #3
      Even using the digital out, the D1 sounds like crap on audio. I have one. On video, it's pretty spiffy though. My pioneer F727 DVD player sounds better, and it ain't so hot on CD.

      But, if for some reason you still want a D1, I am in Santa Clarita also and will be selling mine this summer, probably in late July.

      In addition to Jon's points, another factor is with improvement in audio and video not necessarily making technological jumps at the same time, if you've lumped those into one machine, you are forced to upgrade it more often to kep up with both (HD-DVD comes to mind).

      BB

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15259

        #4
        Bravo D-1 gets good marks for video, but not for audio and is reasonably priced at $200. (It does not have DVD-A). But, if I have a good/great pre/pro is this really an issue? With digital out, isn't the audio quality almost completely determined by the pre/pro? And would I be better off getting a separate CD & DVD-A audio player?

        The Denon DVD 5900 gets great marks for both audio and video but has an MSRP of $2000 - a lot of money for a DVD player.

        So if I get the Denon - what's a good basic pre/pro?

        If I get a higher end pre/pro, what DVD would be a good match?

        Any suggestions for a straight CD player?

        I am more demanding for the audio out for music. HT surround sound is secondary. However, I do want good/great video playback.[/QUOTE]


        Straight video, I bought a Zenith DVB-318, because it doesn 1080i upsampling quite well on component outputs. ~$200. It's nothing special for music- "fuggetaboudit".

        Straigt CD Player? Recommendations depend a lot on your budget and interest. Conventional wisdom is get a good single piece player, because usually you'll have lower jitter this way than with an external transport. One of the best sounding "low High End" players is the Classe CDP 10.

        Classe CDP 10 Review [QUOTE=jazznsoccer]


        This player sounds quite good, and has good measured jitter performance - 177 picoseconds peak.

        But a Benchmark DAC1 connected to a PC Toslink output on an RME digital card scored 128 pico seconds peak jitter, nearly absolute state of the art! So, combining one of these with the SPDIF output of even an average DVD player (like the Zenith or Bravo) might yeild very good results, at much lower cost.

        Last, are you into surround sound for music? If so, then I can understand getting one of the newer universal players to dabble with it and build a collection.

        I have something of a love/hate relationship with SACD. I've got one of Sony's flagship players, and I love the potential the media show. I love the dual layer hybrids SACD disks, partly becuase the CD layers are some of the best you'll ever find, due to their careful mastering, and usually down converted from DSD. I hate the single layer SACD disks that only play in SACD players... I hate that for $3K you can't buy an SACD player that sounds and measures better on CD than a good $1K DAC.

        My personal take is get a d*mn good entry level "serious" DAC (like the Benchmark DAC1 or Music Fidelity A3.24), buy hybrid SACDs, and DVD-A if you find ones you like, and build your collection while keeping your options open in the future for a comparably performing Hi Rez digital player... in the mean time, perhaps get a moderate price "universal" player to dabble with, if so inclined.
        the AudioWorx
        Natalie P
        M8ta
        Modula Neo DCC
        Modula MT XE
        Modula Xtreme
        Isiris
        Wavecor Ardent

        SMJ
        Minerva Monitor
        Calliope
        Ardent D

        In Development...
        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
        Obi-Wan
        Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
        Modula PWB
        Calliope CC Supreme
        Natalie P Ultra
        Natalie P Supreme
        Janus BP1 Sub


        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

        Comment

        • jazznsoccer
          Member
          • Apr 2004
          • 87

          #5
          Hi Jon,

          Thanks for the insights. (Like asking for a glass of water and opening up a fire hydrant... :T )

          I'll do my homework on the Benchmark DAC1. The early investigations are quite interesting. Any info on jitter for the Denon 5900? Couldn't find that spec in my surfing last night.

          Maybe I'll look at putting together a HTPC for the transport and then using a separate DAC for the audio (DAC1 - thats really got me thinking) and a separate scaler for the video.

          Comment

          • aud19
            Twin Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2003
            • 16706

            #6
            If you end up doing a HTPC you should be able to scale everything in the PC. No need for a scaler

            Jason
            Jason

            Comment

            • jazznsoccer
              Member
              • Apr 2004
              • 87

              #7
              OK - what transport do you recommend for an HTPC?

              I'm looking at a Liteon DVD-RW burner (maybe USB2 external model).

              I've heard good things about DVD Shrink and Nero Ultra SW.

              But will video playback be as good as Denon 2900/5900? Or even the Bravo D1? (Given a good graphics card like ATI Radeon X800 PRO 256MB AGP Video Card).

              And what about sound? I'm looking at the Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro. But even with the DAC1 for 2 channel I'm concerned that audio quality will suffer...

              And then the 5/7 channel will get processed throught the RSP-1098...

              Comment

              • aud19
                Twin Moderator Emeritus
                • Aug 2003
                • 16706

                #8
                You should probably post in Tower of Power to get more responses.

                If you do all the things to get video right it should approach the quality of the 5900 plus you'll have the advantage of being able to scale DVD's etc to your displays exact native resolution, especially effective with chip based displays. Not to mention being able to upgrade/change software to your preference and for better performance.

                I just bought a LITEON DVD burner and will be using NERO Ultra and DVD shrink. You may want to consider a second DVD-ROM unit for playback only to share on the wear and tear...plus you can be recording and playing at the same time

                If you need a soundcard now i'd go with the M-Audio Revolution card. Otherwise wait till fall when Creative is supposed to be releasing all new, WAY better cards. You may be able to use something like ASUS's onboard audio (with DD encoding! :B ) as a temporary solution. It just won't be as high-fidelity as you'll eventually want.

                Jason
                Jason

                Comment

                Working...
                😀
                😂
                🥰
                😘
                🤢
                😎
                😞
                😡
                👍
                👎
                Searching...Please wait.
                An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                There are no results that meet this criteria.
                Search Result for "|||"