ATI 1803 with Onkyo 709. Please help me

[ice cube]

Hi ... I hooked up my 709 to Ati amp. The result is my Avr 709 is better alone but with amp is very very bad so i am really desperate.

Tomorrow i will receive my new AVR integra 40.6 and i will try it with and without the Amp. But please i want to hear from you.
My speakers are 2 B&W CM9 , CM2 Center, 2 CM2 ,2 CM1 and ASW10CM.

[Glen B]

ATI amps are very good. Either the unit has a defect or there is something wrong with your hookup.

[John Holmes]

I'm with Glen. Something is wrong.

[ice cube]

Thank you. Yesterday I received my integra AV Receiver 40.6. Also the sound did not impress me. I have to volume up to 70 just to convince my self that the avr with at I are a perfect match. I have these cables RCA

[ice cube]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/ya/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_view?ie=UTF8&a=B005T46GGY&ac=bia&ii=1&ir=&iv=0&mid=A21759W3TJTNCB&mnm=IQ%20HOME%20ENTERTAINMENT&noi=5&of=months-6&oi=0&oid=106-6208873-3628267&t=AUDIOQUEST%20-%20EVERGREEN%20RCA-TO-RCA%202.0M

[Glen B]

Please give us some details about what is wrong with the sound. Statements like "did not impress", "very very bad", etc. is not really telling us anything.

What sources(s) have you used to check sound ? Are your speakers wired in phase (i.e., positive-to-positive and negative-to-negative at both ends)? Speakers connected out of phase will result in a thin, poorly defined sound stage.

BTW, the link you posted above is bad, I can't see anything.

[ice cube]

My English is very bad .. Sorry. I mean that the sound of my speakers with integra 40.6 AVR is the same sound of my speakers with integra+ATI. Sorry it is bad Eng

[Glen B]

The Integra AVR is 110 watts per channel. The ATI amp is 180 watts per channel. The increase in output level is slightly more than 1.5dB. It takes a difference of 3.0dB or doubling of power to hear a noticeable difference in loudness. That may be part of the reason why the sound with both units is the same to you.

[wkhanna]

Sorry it is bad Eng

Your English is Very good, do not be embarrassed.
We are all Very happy to have your here!

[ice cube]

Thank you all ... So can you please help... I have spent more mony ... Any recommendations ... I want to be happy. Just I lesten to music from iTunes and movies from my PC. I mean that I don't have bluray player and CD player. Or just to get ride of Ati. Thank you

[Ovation]

If the ATI is apparently not making a difference, then perhaps you should return it or sell it. A lot of what goes into getting better sound lies in speaker placement rather than more or different gear. Unless your space is incredibly tightly filled and you have no options, you might try moving your speakers around a bit (closer to or further away from walls, aimed straight out into the room or turned slightly inward towards the centre listening position, etc.). You don't need to move speakers very much to get a noticeable change in sound quality (though it is not always an improvement, so you should carefully mark the placement from where you start as well as any placements you like). If you have rear ports on the speakers and one of them is near a wall or corner, you could try to plug the port (in my living room, I have a pair of ported speakers and, for one of them, I have a port plug inserted--bass became much cleaner and the overall SQ is considerably improved). There are many things you can try that cost far less than an amplifier and could notably improve your sound quality (not a promise, but certainly quite possible). Best part is moving speakers around costs nothing.

[ice cube]

If I change my AVR ... Is their any improvements. I have read many reviews before having my speakers. They all notice a big difference by adding an Amp especially for B&W CM9 and they say it is very difficult to drive by AVR. Unfortunately I have believed that. So are they liars or I have to have a pre Amp ..

[madmac]

If the ATI is apparently not making a difference, then perhaps you should return it or sell it. A lot of what goes into getting better sound lies in speaker placement rather than more or different gear. Unless your space is incredibly tightly filled and you have no options, you might try moving your speakers around a bit (closer to or further away from walls, aimed straight out into the room or turned slightly inward towards the centre listening position, etc.). You don't need to move speakers very much to get a noticeable change in sound quality (though it is not always an improvement, so you should carefully mark the placement from where you start as well as any placements you like). If you have rear ports on the speakers and one of them is near a wall or corner, you could try to plug the port (in my living room, I have a pair of ported speakers and, for one of them, I have a port plug inserted--bass became much cleaner and the overall SQ is considerably improved). There are many things you can try that cost far less than an amplifier and could notably improve your sound quality (not a promise, but certainly quite possible). Best part is moving speakers around costs nothing.

Port plugs eh???!!!! Fascinating ! I've never thought of that. One would think however that you are going against the speaker design and how it was spec'd and tuned to work no? I would be curious if anyone else here on the forum has toyed with this concept?

[Ovation]

The plugs came from the manufacturer so they are designed to work with the speaker given certain placement restrictions.

As to the question of whether a new AVR is necessary, it really depends on what kind of sound changes one is looking for. If a more sophisticated room EQ is desired, then a new AVR might be a good idea. However, it could just be that the speakers and the room, as is, simply are not interacting very well. The speakers I ended up buying for my home cinema were not all that impressive at the store because of the room and the materials of which the room was made. At my house though, without all the glass walls and hard cement floors, they sounded so much better I bought them. Beyond any gear, amplifiers or AVRs or EQ or wiring, the room itself has a greater effect on speaker sound than anything else. That's why careful placement is essential but even then it is not always a cure-all.