Audyssey

[alebonau]

I don't understand why the ultra high end companies don't use audyssey or something comparable to it, especially when your charging 4 & 5 thousand and above for this stuff. They can do it. Funny thing when the lower to mid end companies are using the newer technologies and doing wonders with it. Imagine how much better these technologies would work with the ultra high equipment. They will eventually, I'm pretty sure they're working on it now, just a matter of time.

I am sure more and more will comeup.

the denon avp-a1hd retailling at $7,500USD has it included

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3922.asp

as does the upcoming sim audio moon cp8 av pre-amp at $18,000USD also proudly states it in its spec list.
"Auto Setup Calibration" (w/ microphone), Auto & Manual room calibration and "Audyssey Mult EQ XT"

http://www.simaudio.com/xmooncp8.htm

its quite likely that some of these small companies producing this kind of product just cant afford to license these technologies like audyssey, or if they do it ends up blowing out the cost of the end product given the small volumes of product they have to share that cost over. other companies like denon & marantz or onkyo/integra produce product in a lot more volume to spread that cost over. its a bit like THX certification and processing where the likes of marantz, onkyo/integra and rotel can afford to get the certification and processing into even quite affordably priced products in their range

[comeup]

It was a general observation. Nothing personal. :T

Most of us are passionate about this stuff :T One thing you might agree with me about is that you can turn audyssey on or off so, it really wouldn't hurt to have it. You never know......

[comeup]

I am sure more and more will comeup.

the denon avp-a1hd retailling at $7,500USD has it included

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3922.asp

as does the upcoming sim audio moon cp8 av pre-amp at $18,000USD also proudly states it in its spec list.
"Auto Setup Calibration" (w/ microphone), Auto & Manual room calibration and "Audyssey Mult EQ XT"

http://www.simaudio.com/xmooncp8.htm

its quite likely that some of these small companies producing this kind of product just cant afford to license these technologies like audyssey, or if they do it ends up blowing out the cost of the end product given the small volumes of product they have to share that cost over. other companies like denon & marantz or onkyo/integra produce product in a lot more volume to spread that cost over. its a bit like THX certification and processing where the likes of marantz, onkyo/integra and rotel can afford to get the certification and processing into even quite affordably priced products in their range

We're pretty much on the same page I think it will get more popular, less expensive and better.

[RebelMan]

Most of us are passionate about this stuff :T One thing you might agree with me about is that you can turn audyssey on or off so, it really wouldn't hurt to have it. You never know......

Provided that the support circuitry could be completely bypassed I would agree. Though I have some doubts that it could be fully. The feedback circuit the signals pass through has to be included somewhere in the design. Defeating the feature isn't enough if the signals still run the course.

[Jack Gilvey]

It's not the equipment; it's the room and setup. I don't care how excellent your source, processor and amp are, if you cannot arrange your speakers properly in an acoustically decent room, you will need to implement physical or electronic corrections.

That's always been my understanding of Audyssey's purpose.

[Kal Rubinson]

The question was asked why don't high-end companies include Audyssey or something similar. My response was limited to the scope of that question. Of course the room and setup play a role, that was assumed. But I respectfully disagree with you on the point of the equipment. It's more important because of how it interacts with the room! The equipment is not limited to the front-end and amplification it includes the speakers too.

Since we were discussing devices in which it was possible to include EQ, I did not refer to speakers. In fact, I tend to put speakers+room in a separate category than electronics. So, I believe my response was appropriate.

Remember system synergy? Audyssey alters the signal to fit the system with the room. If that wasn't the case then any setup would do. So why the two setups and why the two rooms Kal? Hmm... :W

Well, they are in two different homes. Cannot made do with one for both houses.

If you don't like the sound of your room then change it. If you don't like the sound of your equipment then change it. If you don't like the quality of the recording then pick something else, but leave the signal alone. I'm beginning to lose faith in you. 8)

I think you are being unreasonably rigid in these matters. Many people, for a variety of reasons, simply cannot change their rooms to make them acoustically perfect. In fact, I venture to say that most people cannot. What we are discussing here are tools for the others.

Let's cut to the chase Kal. How many acoustically neutral rooms have you actually been in that you feel needs Audyssey like treatment to sound proper, really? (Notice I didn't say acoustically perfect rooms.)

1. Acoustically neutral, imho, equals acoustically perfect.
2. None, of course.

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

I object to all forms of post mixing EQ systems regardless of their design. Unlike many that exalt EQ's for what they think is miraculous capabilities in system transformation, I understand when they should be applied and how not to abuse that privilege.

Then why bother with discussion? :roll:

[RebelMan]

Since we were discussing devices in which it was possible to include EQ, I did not refer to speakers. In fact, I tend to put speakers+room in a separate category than electronics. So, I believe my response was appropriate.

Maybe, but you made the assumption that I saw the situation as you do. The room should be treated (literally and figuratively) as a constant to get the most of the system otherwise you'll never really know what it is capable of.

Well, they are in two different homes. Cannot made do with one for both houses.

I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong, one with Audyssey and the other without. :W

I think you are being unreasonably rigid in these matters. Many people, for a variety of reasons, simply cannot change their rooms to make them acoustically perfect. In fact, I venture to say that most people cannot. What we are discussing here are tools for the others.

These matters are too often considered the rule when they should be the exception. I suspect most people will choose not to make changes. It takes money, effort and knowhow to do the right thing. I also suspect many people understand this and ignore the advice because it's too much trouble. People like automation because it's easy and it comes free, not because it does a better job. There are valid cases for EQing the room but not the system and it should only happen in the lowest octaves. Compare what you have invested in making your room better to how much have you invested in making your system better. If you put speakers in the same category as the room then the investment you have made in both should be reasonably proportional. A well treated room can be aesthetically pleasing and acceptable to others if one wishes. I don't buy the excuses Kal.

1. Acoustically neutral, imho, equals acoustically perfect.
2. None, of course.

Of course, I expected as much. It was an easy out. :W

You know as well as I do a neutral room is not perfectly flat across the audible band. If you are ever on the west coast look me up. I'll take you to a few that are. I think it would amaze you to hear an entry level system in a room like the kind I mentioned.

[RebelMan]

Then why bother with discussion? :roll:

To make a case for the opposition. There's more to this hobby than personal likes. Some effort should be made in getting it right too. Why have any discussion if not for this reason?

[kgveteran]

I was using a Outlaw 990 and felt that my surround system was top notch.All my speakers are HT Guide DIY.My subs are (4) sealed tumults.I felt like the sound could not get any better after I upgraded to a AT screen with all the mains behind the screen.

I was very wrong.First off the three mains no longer pinpoint their position.They are like one coherent source.The surrounds don't even sound like they are on until I switch off their power amps.It's pretty uncanny.

I use my favorite concert dvd Peter Gabriel "Growing up".Without Audyssey it sounds good.With Audyssey the depth is perfect the width is very wide.Turn off Audyssey and the sound collapses.

ops: Audyssey also found one of my surrounds were wired wrong.

I'll be upgrading to the pro version soon which will also give me Dynamic EQ.I can't wait. I've played with audio a while and feel that I'll never have a preamp that has no Audyssey processing.

I'm using a Denon 3808ci receiver as a preamp.My only regret is the amp runs hot.My room doesn't exhaust heat that well.Along with my DLP PJ I'll be pretty toasty this winter :

Audyssey is a no brainer.....for me that is........


Keep in mind the Denon 3808 can be had for $1,100.00 shipped.That is a steal in the world of processors that don't offer Audyssey and to boot you can power your whole system if you choose.

[Kal Rubinson]

I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong, one with Audyssey and the other without. :W

Actually, at the moment, neither has Audyssey. One has an Anthem D2 with ARC and the other a Meridian 861 with MRC.

These matters are too often considered the rule when they should be the exception. I suspect most people will choose not to make changes. It takes money, effort and knowhow to do the right thing. I also suspect many people understand this and ignore the advice because it's too much trouble. People like automation because it's easy and it comes free, not because it does a better job. There are valid cases for EQing the room but not the system and it should only happen in the lowest octaves. Compare what you have invested in making your room better to how much have you invested in making your system better. If you put speakers in the same category as the room then the investment you have made in both should be reasonably proportional. A well treated room can be aesthetically pleasing and acceptable to others if one wishes. I don't buy the excuses Kal.

You cannot impose your rules on others although I do agree that, in an ideal world, you would be right.

You know as well as I do a neutral room is not perfectly flat across the audible band.

Sure. I did not say flat; I said ideal (and quoted it from you.

[comeup]

Is there anyone that needs help with audyssey? any problems? If so dump it on us so we can help.

[comeup]

I was very wrong.First off the three mains no longer pinpoint their position.They are like one coherent source.The surrounds don't even sound like they are on until I switch off their power amps.It's pretty uncanny.

This is exactly how I feel, the realism of the sound, not pinpointing to the speaker where the sound is coming from amazing my Lexicon could not do that although, the Lexicon is pretty darn good with 2 channel.

[RebelMan]

You cannot impose your rules on others although I do agree that, in an ideal world, you would be right.

PM sent.

[kgveteran]

Thoughts on Dynamic EQ ?

I do alot of low level listening at night and look forward to full bandwidth audio at about -30db.

I've EQ'd my system for this before, but once the volume changes , so does the balance.I'm sure Audyssey really nails this issue.

Other than the Pro version update and recalibration I have no upgrade plans in sight.

Could I finally be happy with my system.......

[alebonau]

I do alot of low level listening at night and look forward to full bandwidth audio at about -30db.

I've EQ'd my system for this before, but once the volume changes , so does the balance.I'm sure Audyssey really nails this issue.

Other than the Pro version update and recalibration I have no upgrade plans in sight.

Could I finally be happy with my system.......

hi kg, unless you listen at reference level you will get benefit from dynamic eq.

I'm using dynamic eq on my avp. when I first did the calibration it automatically turned that on. I initialy mistakenly turned it off thinking it was just some loudness control eg the old loudness compensation.

however talking to chris from audyssey turns out it actually needs to be on all the time and goes hand in hand with the audyssey system. basically dynamic eq maintains dynamics and dynamic range and the eq curve regardless of volume. Dynamic eq dynamically makes adjustments right upto reference level.

turning it on has been mind blowing. particuallry in the bass. quite amazing really. like yourself we do a lot of listening at lower vol levels long way below reference level at around -30db to -25db typically especially once our little daughter goes to bed absolutely feel not missing out on dynamics at all. couldnt do without it.

ps this is as distinct to just announced audyssey dynamic volume. denon has promised an update to make this latest technology avaialble on its gear in september. very excited to find out the benefit that brings

[kgveteran]

After reading all the white paper on the dDynamic EQ, I now realize why I listen at Odb.

I'll be able to listen at what ever volume i want with the whole signal present at the listening position.

KG