Audyssey

[comeup]

I just purchased the new Integra 9.8 a couple of months ago and it comes with the new audyssey calibration setup and its big talk at avs and I thought I would bring it up here because we all know that HTguide is the best...It might have already been discussed, but I've been away for a while and haven't seen any thread on it. I have to say that I love it and it took the harshness out of my speakers completely its amazing. I've heard that some people aren't that crazy about it, but I surely like it. I first setup my 9.8 without it and was not that impressed actually thought about taking it back and resetting my B&K, but I ran the Audyssey and wow,wow,wow open and airy I love it. What do some of you think about audyssey especially compared to some of the other auto calibration setups? I was a firm believer in the sound meter, but now I don't know. Your comments and experiences please.

[wettou]

What do some of you think about audyssey especially compared to some of the other auto calibration setups? I was a firm believer in the sound meter, but now I don't know. Your comments and experiences please.

Well, if you listen to high end manufacturer Classé and legions of follower Audyssey doesn't work! What kind of speakers are you using

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, if you listen to high end manufacturer Classé and legions of follower Audyssey doesn't work! What kind of speakers are you using

So they say. Do they offer any real evidence or are you simply fanning flames?

Kal

[comeup]

Well, if you listen to high end manufacturer Classé and legions of follower Audyssey doesn't work! What kind of speakers are you using

It works I've heard it for myself switched on & off...I have Kefs XQ series that can get a little harsh, but not anymore.

[audioqueso]

I've only tried it on a Marantz. Personally, I wouldn't say the difference is THAT big. But it does help. However, I did my own calibrating vs what the processor did. I will say that it is very accurate. Distance, db levels, and position were 99% exactly to what I had matched.

The difference was that Audyssey changed some frequencys by 1-2db. I think there is like a 2dB increase on my 110Hz frequency, and +1dB on two of my upper frequencies. Small changes. But those 2-3 small changes that didn't match my setup actually helped out a lot. When I first looked at the graph showing that there was an increase in the upper frequencies, I already had it set in my head that it will sound exaggerated, colored, regular, etc. But to my surprised, it that minor change sounds a lot more transparent than my setup. Female voices especially sound much smoother now.

[wettou]

So they say. Do they offer any real evidence or are you simply fanning flames, :rofl:? Kal

When I spoke with Classé they just say it does not work and tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician!:B

[Kal Rubinson]

When I spoke with Classé they just say it does not work and tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician!:B

And you believe everything you are told! No wonder this country is in the shape it is in! :blah:

Kal

[audioqueso]

When I spoke with Classé they just say it does not work and tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician!:B

Does Classe products has Audyssey? If they donn't, then that line just sounds like something they would say to prevent you from straying away from Classe products.

However, "tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician"... as I previously wrote, I did my own calibrating, and distance, db levels, and positions. When I let Audyssey do it on its own, it was a 99% match to my real measurements. The only difference was it calculated my sub to be a bit further away. Aside from that, it calculated everything accurately. I was impressed that it got it just right. So I can't agree anymore with that statement.

[Kal Rubinson]

Does Classe products has Audyssey? If they donn't, then that line just sounds like something they would say to prevent you from straying away from Classe products.

However, "tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician"... as I previously wrote, I did my own calibrating, and distance, db levels, and positions. When I let Audyssey do it on its own, it was a 99% match to my real measurements. The only difference was it calculated my sub to be a bit further away. Aside from that, it calculated everything accurately. I was impressed that it got it just right. So I can't agree anymore with that statement.

Actually, it is likely that the Audyssey setting for the sub distance is more accurate since it is measuring acoustically and that includes the physical distance (which you measured) and the acoustic delay due to processing.

Kal

[audioqueso]

You have a very good point. Which just adds more to say "tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician" sounds like something a dealer would say to keep a customer from straying away. Not that one is better than the other, but the reality is that Audyssey is very impressive for what it does. I can't agree with the comeup in that it made SUCH a big difference, but then again, I didn't compare Audyssey vs stock settings. I compared it vs my own calibration.

[comeup]

You have a very good point. Which just adds more to say "tweaking is best left to a professional acoustician" sounds like something a dealer would say to keep a customer from straying away. Not that one is better than the other, but the reality is that Audyssey is very impressive for what it does. I can't agree with the comeup in that it made SUCH a big difference, but then again, I didn't compare Audyssey vs stock settings. I compared it vs my own calibration.

I compared against my own calibrations also, different rooms, different units, Maybe it didn't make a big difference with yours, but it made a huge difference on mines and many others mostly good results from what I have read and there was those few that weren't so impressed.This is my setup http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/comeup25/ Maybe acoustics play a big part in the difference I have a three wall setup you would think because of the missing wall it would sound horrible. I don't know how the audyssey did it, but it made my three wall room setup sound really good.

Audioqueso,
I know you think I'm putting too much on it, but I'm not it sounds that good.

peace audio brother

[audioqueso]

Don't misunderstand Blake. I'm not saying you're putting too much on it, I'm simply saying that I don't hear that big a difference as you do. And yes, it may do a lot of good for a lot of people, but I think most people don't know how to calibrate their own systems, so for this, Audyssey is a big step forward.

However, I don't think it does anything extraordinary that can't be achieve on our own by those that know how.

[comeup]

Don't misunderstand Blake. I'm not saying you're putting too much on it, I'm simply saying that I don't hear that big a difference as you do. And yes, it may do a lot of good for a lot of people, but I think most people don't know how to calibrate their own systems, so for this, Audyssey is a big step forward.

However, I don't think it does anything extraordinary that can't be achieve on our own by those that know how.

I've been setting up home theater systems for a while now not HTIB and I'm pretty good at it and I've had some pretty high end preamps myself such as Lexicon and using notch filters on my B&K I do it on the side and have made good money at it. I'm not the best, but I'm good and I'm always learning something new. I do agree with you that there are a few that can achieve this and match what Audyssey can do just letting you know that I know what I'm doing.

[comeup]

Kal,

I didn't realize you did this review http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/508mitr/ It was one of the main reasons I bought the DTC 9.8 I would love to have your job this is a hobby for most of us lucky you.......

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,

I didn't realize you did this review http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/508mitr/ It was one of the main reasons I bought the DTC 9.8 I would love to have your job this is a hobby for most of us lucky you.......

Thanks. It's a hobby for me, too. :W

Kal

[wettou]

And you believe everything you are told! No wonder this country is in the shape it is in! :blah: Kal

No I don't that's why I want to hear it for myself, Classe is just saying that because they don't have it. So proof will be in the pudding

[Kal Rubinson]

No I don't that's why I want to hear it for myself, Classe is just saying that because they don't have it. So proof will be in the pudding

Agreed. I just don't like all the repetition of Classe's blanket statement in advance of the appearance of the product (which I await with anticipation).

Kal

[wettou]

Agreed. I just don't like all the repetition of Classe's blanket statement in advance of the appearance of the product (which I await with anticipation). Kal

So do I, I really hope it is all it is meant to be and lives up to my expectation other wise I will have waited six months for nothing.

[sikoniko]

Classe's ssp does have an EQ. Just not an auto-eq.

[wettou]

Classé's ssp does have an EQ. Just not an auto-eq.

Yes and they recommend a pro acoustician to tailor it!!!

[sikoniko]

Yes and they recommend a pro acoustician to tailor it!!!

recommend and require are two different things. If you know what you are doing, then you can do-it-yourself.

[wettou]

recommend and require are two different things. If you know what you are doing, then you can do-it-yourself.

Well I known what I am doing but don't have the equipment to measure room modes and so on

[Kal Rubinson]

Well I known what I am doing but don't have the equipment to measure room modes and so on

Try this: http://www.xtz.se/produkt.php?allman...kt=41&eng=true

Makes it almost an autoEQ. :roll:

Kal

[comeup]

I don't understand why the ultra high end companies don't use audyssey or something comparable to it, especially when your charging 4 & 5 thousand and above for this stuff. They can do it. Funny thing when the lower to mid end units are using the newer technologies and doing wonders with it. Imagine how much better these technologies would work with the ultra high equipment. They will eventually, I'm pretty sure they're working on it now, just a matter of time.

[audioqueso]

Comeup, you sound like a sales rep for Audyssey. ha ha
(I'll only messing with you)

[wettou]

I don't understand why the ultra high end companies don't use audyssey or something comparable to it, especially when your charging 4 & 5 thousand and above for this stuff. They can do it. Funny thing when the lower to mid end companies are using the newer technologies and doing wonders with it. Imagine how much better these technologies would work with the ultra high equipment. They will eventually, I'm pretty sure they're working on it now, just a matter of time.

It is called profit margins highend play on price, low and mid play on volume Economics 101!

[comeup]

Comeup, you sound like a sales rep for Audyssey. ha ha
(I'll only messing with you)

I'm a rep for anything that gives me lots of satisfaction ;x( to good products

[RebelMan]

I don't understand why the ultra high end companies don't use audyssey or something comparable to it, especially when your charging 4 & 5 thousand and above for this stuff. They can do it. Funny thing when the lower to mid end companies are using the newer technologies and doing wonders with it. Imagine how much better these technologies would work with the ultra high equipment. They will eventually, I'm pretty sure they're working on it now, just a matter of time.

I'll tell you why. It's because high-end (high performance) companies don't need it. Only mediocre (midfi) equipment stands to benefit the most from the trick and pony shows. Audyssey (among others) will be the first to tell you so.

What's ironic is the inexperience and/or impatience present with enthusiasts whom are the first to consider the features in the first place. It just goes to show that most people are willing to choose cheesy fast food over a quality home cooked meal.

[audioqueso]

It just goes to show that most people are willing to choose cheesy fast food over a quality home cooked meal.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[wettou]

I'll tell you why. It's because high-end (high performance) companies don't need it. Only mediocre (midfi) equipment stands to benefit the most from the trick and pony shows. Audyssey (among others) will be the first to tell you so.

What's ironic is the inexperience and/or impatience present with enthusiasts whom are the first to consider the features in the first place. It just goes to show that most people are willing to choose cheesy fast food over a quality home cooked meal.

Getting a bit sensitive RM! Let's wait and see and the we can compare. I sure hope the SSP-800 will blow them all away even without Audyssey!!

[RebelMan]

Nope. I'm just parroting what Audyssey has said. The better the system the less dependent it will be on MultEQ. I have shared and practiced this philosophy for years. Regardless of what some will say or believe EQ's are for fixing systems not sources. I respect Audyssey for their candid honesty even though I don't completely agree with their provision.

[comeup]

Nope. I'm just parroting what Audyssey has said. The better the system the less dependent it will be on MultEQ. I have shared and practiced this philosophy for years. Regardless of what some will say or believe EQ's are for fixing systems not sources. I respect Audyssey for their candid honesty even though I don't completely agree with their provision.

RebelMan, I hear you, but isn't audyssey part of the system such as DTS and DD ect. it has its part its really the advantage of the unit that uses audyssey not dependant on something, such as the sound meter. They all are about getting our Benjamin's why the hate on audyssey it does a good job I give them their props. The Integra sounds like a high-end preamp just doesn't have the high price tag, hey when I can save myself thousands its all good. In the end if it sounds good that's what its all about who ever designed audyssey is brilliant. It will only get better.

[comeup]

I'll tell you why. It's because high-end (high performance) companies don't need it. Only mediocre (midfi) equipment stands to benefit the most from the trick and pony shows. Audyssey (among others) will be the first to tell you so.

What's ironic is the inexperience and/or impatience present with enthusiasts whom are the first to consider the features in the first place. It just goes to show that most people are willing to choose cheesy fast food over a quality home cooked meal.

Hummm interesting I put up the white flag I don't throw lugs I don't do personal I do civil.

[alebonau]

I just purchased the new Integra 9.8 a couple of months ago and it comes with the new audyssey calibration setup and its big talk at avs and I thought I would bring it up here because we all know that HTguide is the best...It might have already been discussed, but I've been away for a while and haven't seen any thread on it. I have to say that I love it and it took the harshness out of my speakers completely its amazing. I've heard that some people aren't that crazy about it, but I surely like it. I first setup my 9.8 without it and was not that impressed actually thought about taking it back and resetting my B&K, but I ran the Audyssey and wow,wow,wow open and airy I love it. What do some of you think about audyssey especially compared to some of the other auto calibration setups? I was a firm believer in the sound meter, but now I don't know. Your comments and experiences please.

congrats comeup ! great to hear of your positive experience.

I too absolutely love what audyssey does on my denon AVP-A1HD.

I actually held back running it on the avp for quite a few months waiting till I had the house to myself and had the time to have a play with it. really kicking myself hadnt run it earlier now.

I took mic positioning and setup advice from chris from audyssey courtesy of the marvelous audyssey thread on avs. and seemed to have got it right as a result on first go !

as to comments on other auto setup. personally I too was a strong beleiver in doing things manually and using a spl meter etc. however do believe audyssey goes well beyond that. as kal mentioned it even takes into acount actual delays due to setup and config rather than just plain physical distance which people would think would be more accurate.

additionaly I myself have a velo DD15 and though I thought I had things setup pretty good on the bass side with a pretty flat response down to 15hz even there I found audyssey to make quite a significant difference.
the difference I found audyssey to make has really blown me away ! I think it has taken what is a lovely pre in the denon avp to a whole another level and to the point that from here hence I could d never see myself buying another pre unless it had audyssey on board

[Chris D]

Remember, Audyssey is more than just an "Auto-EQ" system. It uses psychoacoustics to widen the sweet spot, giving a balanced sound to a larger soundfield--more viewers get a better sound.

[sikoniko]

Remember, Audyssey is more than just an "Auto-EQ" system. It uses psychoacoustics to widen the sweet spot, giving a balanced sound to a larger soundfield--more viewers get a better sound.

Psychoacoustics is the study of subjective human perception of sounds. Alternatively it can be described as the study of the psychological correlates of the physical parameters of acoustics. (wikipedia.org)

That's actually more worrysome than not to me. What that is telling me is that it assumes that I hear like everyone else. I guarrantee no 2 people hear a like. I don't want things manipulating my sound.

are the implanting subliminal messages too? <jk>

An EQ should be an EQ.

[alebonau]

Remember, Audyssey is more than just an "Auto-EQ" system. It uses psychoacoustics to widen the sweet spot, giving a balanced sound to a larger soundfield--more viewers get a better sound.

agree more than just a single point auto peq. have particualrly found it to provide a better more balanced experience for more than one seating position when sharing the experience with others.

[Kal Rubinson]

I'll tell you why. It's because high-end (high performance) companies don't need it. Only mediocre (midfi) equipment stands to benefit the most from the trick and pony shows. Audyssey (among others) will be the first to tell you so.

It's not the equipment; it's the room and setup. I don't care how excellent your source, processor and amp are, if you cannot arrange your speakers properly in an acoustically decent room, you will need to implement physical or electronic corrections.

[wettou]

It's not the equipment; it's the room and setup. I don't care how excellent your source, processor and amp are, if you cannot arrange your speakers properly in an acoustically decent room, you will need to implement physical or electronic corrections.

Yes, Yes, Yes I spoke with Rives Audio and am seriously thinking to have them take a look at my room to make it disappear.

I did an interesting experiment since I live on a canyon. I set-up the speakers outside and listen with out walls or ceiling to reflect the sound and oh my what a difference it was incredible. It is of course very inconvenient or impossible to have my system outside permanently due to obvious reasons but if I could only recreate that sound it would be awesome.

My next-up grade after my pre/pro should be my room.

[alebonau]

It's not the equipment; it's the room and setup. I don't care how excellent your source, processor and amp are, if you cannot arrange your speakers properly in an acoustically decent room, you will need to implement physical or electronic corrections.

totally agree on that one. take the best equipment set it up in a dissaster of a room and thats what you get. I experienced that once in a room which was just concrete, marble, steel, hard wood, tiled floor basically hard surfaces everywhere, not a soft furnishing to be seen. it was very dissapointing to listen to the awesome system it contained.

Even with fully acoustically treated rooms I understand audyssey can have benefit so defintely a place for it

[Kal Rubinson]

Even with fully acoustically treated rooms I under audyssey can have benefit so defintely a place for it

Agreed but, since less benefit is required, less can be obtained.

Kal

[alebonau]

Yes, Yes, Yes I spoke with Rives Audio and am seriously thinking to have them take a look at my room to make it disappear.

I did an interesting experiment since I live on a canyon. I set-up the speakers outside and listen with out walls or ceiling to reflect the sound and oh my what a difference it was incredible. It is of course very inconvenient or impossible to have my system outside permanently due to obvious reasons but if I could only recreate that sound it would be awesome.

My next-up grade after my pre/pro should be my room.

great to hear wettou, have seen some awesome work that rives have turned out.

great experiment with the speakers outside ! how lucky to live on a canyon

ps you must post some before and after pics if this a path considering to take I am sure there will be many to look on with interest

[RebelMan]

RebelMan, I hear you, but isn't audyssey part of the system such as DTS and DD ect. it has its part its really the advantage of the unit that uses audyssey not dependant on something, such as the sound meter. They all are about getting our Benjamin's why the hate on audyssey it does a good job I give them their props. The Integra sounds like a high-end preamp just doesn't have the high price tag, hey when I can save myself thousands its all good. In the end if it sounds good that's what its all about who ever designed audyssey is brilliant. It will only get better.

Audyssey is nothing like Dolby and dts. Encoding algorithms were born out of the need to conserve disc space. EQing systems were derived out of the desire to normalize frequency response. I object to all forms of post mixing EQ systems regardless of their design. Unlike many that exalt EQ's for what they think is miraculous capabilities in system transformation, I understand when they should be applied and how not to abuse that privilege. The problem with Audyssey is the ease with which that abuse can occur, not so much by it's user but by what it does directly to the signal.

If its your intention to create new sound effects with the audio content you are given then weapons like Audyssey can facilitate that objective with little effort. However, if it is your intent to preserve the integrity of the signal there are other more effective means to achieve that. The only problem with conventional approaches is in the cost and complexities of their implementation. People willing to trade off sound quality for convenience and/or wherewithal will find Audyssey appealing. Others that are more willing to do the right thing by honoring the source will not make that level of compromise.

[RebelMan]

Hummm interesting I put up the white flag I don't throw lugs I don't do personal I do civil.

It was a general observation. Nothing personal. :T

[RebelMan]

It's not the equipment; it's the room and setup. I don't care how excellent your source, processor and amp are, if you cannot arrange your speakers properly in an acoustically decent room, you will need to implement physical or electronic corrections.

The question was asked why don't high-end companies include Audyssey or something similar. My response was limited to the scope of that question. Of course the room and setup play a role, that was assumed. But I respectfully disagree with you on the point of the equipment. It's more important because of how it interacts with the room! The equipment is not limited to the front-end and amplification it includes the speakers too. Remember system synergy? Audyssey alters the signal to fit the system with the room. If that wasn't the case then any setup would do. So why the two setups and why the two rooms Kal? Hmm... :W

If you don't like the sound of your room then change it. If you don't like the sound of your equipment then change it. If you don't like the quality of the recording then pick something else, but leave the signal alone. I'm beginning to lose faith in you. 8)

Let's cut to the chase Kal. How many acoustically neutral rooms have you actually been in that you feel needs Audyssey like treatment to sound proper, really? (Notice I didn't say acoustically perfect rooms.)