SACD? any opinions

[Al K]

Considering adding a DVD player with SACD options. Does the future of SACD look healthy? Is it a substantial improvement over HDCD, or the various dolby and dts formats? Any opinions and experience would be appreciated. I read through some of the threads! Got my answer. Think I'll wait on this purchase and see what the future holds in store!! ops:

[Scarp]

Take a look at some sites that sell SACD's currently and see if there is anything of interest. From all titles that are out, I only found too interesting and within my music taste (two Joe Satriani SACD's).

As I look at the number of SACD's coming out recently, its not that significant. Still 99% or so is normal CD. Also a few dvd-audio titles, but thats even less than SACD.

Soundwise its difficult to compare, since I do not have titles that I also have a CD of, but the two that I have sound really nice, but nothing amazing that couldn't be reproduced by a CD (except for the multichannel version of one of the SACD's that I have. However Multichannel music is quite tiresome).

So, for equipment like this I use the same way as I recommend buying a gaming console. Look at what software you like and what player will support it best. I think for music it will come down to just a cd player and for surround it still comes down to dvd's with DTS or DD tracks.

However, its getting more and more difficult to find a good dvd player, thats just a dvd player. Most will at least support dvd-audio and often its a multi player that supports all.

So my opinion ... choose a player primarly for DVD's (movies and concerts on DTS/DD) and CD's. If it supports SACD or DVD-Audio its a bonus, but for the immediate future (the next 2 years or so), I hardly expect anything from both formats.

Also SACD II is on its way, Blu-ray, etc ... all new thingies looming from the horizon.

Stick to the basics

[JonMarsh]

It is sensible to consder what you listen to, what you can afford, and what software is released.

There's a lot of SACD material on hybrid disks, which I like- including such diverse performers as the Police, Rolling Stones, Alison Kraus, and some Jazz artists like Patricia Barber, Oscar Perterson, etc. But it's not necessarily what I would call "mainstream" high choices, either.

Hybrid SACD's combine a CD layer and SACD layer on one disk; in most cases the CD layer is a down conversion of the SACD stereo mix (multi-channel SACD's usually have both a mult-channel track and an specific two channel mix, not down mixed by the player as with DVD-Audio). The CD layers on Hybrid SACD's are often some of the best recordings available on "Redbook".

At any given price point, it seems to be true that the SACD performance will exceed the CD performance (sonically) for a given level of construction and execution. That's not to say that the very best CD players can't be significantly better than average SACD players- this is definitely the case, and should be kept in mind. That given, the better the player, (and the better your system) the more you may appreciate SACD.

Oddly, I probably wouldn't recommend a "stick your toe in the waters" approach, just because you may be not to impressed with the performance of a $300 SACD player. But then again, you may be.

Personnally, I'm not enthused about combo DVD-SACD-DVDA players, because in the past most DVD players have had significant compromised in clock quality (especially jitter), and this shows up in the sonics- they often don't hold up very well in comparison to dedicated audio players. I'm sure this is improving, but I'd check reviews carefully before shelling out money.

OTOH, if you find there is music you're interested in with this format, then a moderate priced player may be a reasonable place to start while you build a collection.

In the old days, (70's), some of my friends were really into getting 15 IPS tapes of live performances, or dubs from maseter tapes, because they would give such great performance compared with what was available off of any but the most stratospherically priced turntables. A really good SACD player, IMO, is something of the same sort of thing- but there's more software out, and you can even purchase it at places like Best Buy. Ultimately, it's really a personal call as to whether the expense is worthwhile, but for me, it's a no brainer- I just have to spin up the Police, Alison Kraus, Oscar Peterson, or Dark Side of the Moon, or some other favorite on my Sony tank (55 lb), and the performance is there in a way that I can't get on conventional CD's. And I know there's still room for improvement- perhaps someday the Krell player, which has a lot going for it, including relatively reasonable (for high end) cost.

Best regards, and happy listening.

Jon




Earth First!
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[ThomasW]

There are roughly 1400 SACD titles. The selection is a scatter gun approach, something to offend everyone
Just kidding........
I really like SACD. And now that most discs are hybrid, it takes the fear factor out of the equation.
One option is to buy hybrid recordings when available and continue use your current player. When that player bites the dust, look at the SACD players on the market. If you like what you see then pull the trigger, if not, nothing lost.
Biggest problem currently is getting a player that has good bass mgt.
I do think that DSD/SACD is the future; since it's already copy protected, and unlike DVD-A, it's not going to be hacked.....




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Al K]

Thanx to all
ooodles of excellent advice and info! Very helpful indeed! Always nice to make an informed decision. 8)

AL

[Scarp]

There are roughly 1400 SACD titles. The selection is a scatter gun approach, something to offend everyone
Just kidding........
I really like SACD. And now that most discs are hybrid, it takes the fear factor out of the equation.
One option is to buy hybrid recordings when available and continue use your current player. When that player bites the dust, look at the SACD players on the market. If you like what you see then pull the trigger, if not, nothing lost.
Biggest problem currently is getting a player that has good bass mgt.
I do think that DSD/SACD is the future; since it's already copy protected, and unlike DVD-A, it's not going to be hacked.....

DVD-Audio hasn't been hacked, which is also a lot more difficult than with DVD-Video. The DVD-Audio standard has a lot better protection. SACD's protection is also not perfect, thats one of the reasons why SACD II was announced (which also adds video to the SACD).

[Scarp]

Another nice fact ...
The old 12" vinyl records still outsell both SACD and DVD-Audio combined !!!!!

I guess, looking at those figures its better to buy an old record player

[gd]

As suggested above, content is everything.

As an inexpensive experiment, I picked up the Pioneer 563A universal player -- dirt-cheap at $160 -- and as wide a variety of hi-res discs as I could justify spending for, about a dozen of them.

Hi-res does in fact deliver on its promise of improved sound... all facets of the music sound terrific -- detail, depth, impact... even on my modest mid-fi HT rig... it is difficult to compare old to new directly, but one test I can report is of listening to the Rolling Stones SACD re-issues... even before getting the uni-player, it was evident that the remasters have been impressively restored; the redbook layer sounds way better than any previous format... and the SACD layer is even better -- discernibly so.

Discernible? -- yes... life-changing experience? -- no.

The available titles just aren't enough for me (I'm wired to non-mainstream avant garde stuff that will surely not be remastered for hi-res)... in any event I can't justify replacing CD titles on formats whose future is uncertain... and with at least a couple other new formats looming, I'm convinced of that uncertain future.

Another potential problem is perception of any given surround mix... some prefer ambient, some immersive... no one standard would likely satisfy everyone... FWIW, the choices I've encountered so far seem reasonable, with the possible exception of Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow... guitars in the rear channels? -- wrong.

However, all things considered, hi-res does sound very good... if I can keep it as a low-cost occasional alternative -- swell... but I won't knock myself out for it.

[aud19]

I'm with gd. With the affordable universals from the likes of Pioneer and Denon, being able to listen to the better sound quality and multichanel tracks on SACD's and DVD-A's is a bonus. I wouldn't go break the bank on a top dollar universal for SACD/DVD-A's sake. If you were already spending top dollar on something like the Denon 5900 for it's video quality then it's even better sound quality will be that much more impressive. I wouldn't personally go spend big bucks on a machine just for those abilities though. Having said that I doubt I'd spend big bucks on one with out them either but video is still the most important.

Jason




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[Al K]

gd,

Thats precisely what I was considering myself. The Pioneer goes for $149 here! Cheap enough, but probably wouldn't be what I want. I tend to agree with your critique. I had a quick listen to the PioneerW/SACD at a dealer showroom and I couldn't have described the results better than you did under your circumstances(similar). Unfortunately, I only had a quick listen so I still wasn't completely sure. Thanks for validating what I believed I heard without spending enough time to make sure.

AL K

[Al K]

gd,

Have you read the reviews on the pioneer 563A? I read about a half dozen reviews! They were all pretty amazing. One review stated that they believe this unit may achieve "GEM STATUS". This simply means that it performs way above its price category and superior in features and sound quality compared to units costing up to 3and 4 times as much including more expensive pioneers! A few reviews that stated only the pickiest of audiophiles would be dissatisfied with this unit . Quite frankly the low price actually had me wondering, what could you possibly get . It appears alot more then your moneys worth.

AL