Who is waiting for a Rotel SACD player?

[csuzor]

Please vote if you would consider purchasing an SACD player from Rotel if it ever becomes available. Please choose if you

1. prefer a pure audio SACD/DVD-A/CD
2. prefer an audio+video universal DVD/SACD/DVD-A/CD
3. prefer only a future HD-DVD/Blueray/SACD/etc player
4. prefer another brand / or have and existing player and would not change
5. have no interest in SACD

I'd like to see a real commitment from Rotel to deliver an SACD solution in 1 shape or another.

[miner]

How about a 5 disc carousel DVD/SACD?

[rnoble]

Audio only here, although I don't think you'll get a non universal dvd-a player, they come hand in hand with video.

[junior77blue]

Well, the big question is how much longer will SACD be around? With the HD comming around the corner...I don't see SACD or DVD-A lasting much longer.

So, I highly doubt rotel will come out with an SACD...more likely jump to the 'newer' media standard.

P.S. for the record, I hope I'm wrong since I did invest in a dedicated SACD player.

[csuzor]

I believe that music albums will be mostly limited to DVD-A or SACD, those discs contain enough data to hold high quality multichannel music. Releasing music on other media with more storage space would be wasteful (see below) (unless you need many more channels?), and would prevent existing audiophiles from buying the music...

SACD is preferred for its copy protection...
DVD-A is preferred because it can be played on PCs and can be copied/redistributed.
Depending on their position regarding copying / internet / target audience, an artist or producer could choose either, the sound quality is so similar.

I predict that SACD (hybrid) and DVD-A (dualdisc?) will live together for a long time, and every serious music album in 5 years will also be available in either format (the CD only version will become optional, just like the cassette and vinyl today)

Other higher density formats will be for HD movies or PC storage.

Michael Bishop, talented recording engineer at Telarc (whose multichannel SACDs I listen to), says (http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hi...es/206015.html)
Use of Blu-Ray as a music carrier is speculation and extreme overkill on storage space needed for music releases.

[junior77blue]

That is re-assurring...

But SACD has not taken off...retailers did not embrace it. So, the demand to produce SACDs is not there. Maybe it will come...time will tell.

Till then there a numerous other options out there besides rotel...sony/marantz/denon are just a few options to consider for SACD.

[rnoble]

Yes, the dvd-a vs sacd debate has died in the ass along with the format.

[pbarata]

What I really desire is an universal DVD/SACD/DVD-A/CD with an HDMI output and a successor of RSP-1098/68/66 with HDMI inputs, able to decode all sound formats currently available and redirect the video signal to a LCD/Plasma/Projector.


That would be great, digital transmission for all signals and a single cable between source and pre-amplifier/surround processor !!


Am I asking something to utopist?

[spiffnme]

Yesterday I would have said I'd buy a Rotel Universal player, but I just bought the Denon DVD-2900 this morning. I couldn't wait for Rotel any longer. So I guess my next Rotel purchase will likely be a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray uni-player.

[mtodde]

Yesterday I would have said I'd buy a Rotel Universal player, but I just bought the Denon DVD-2900 this morning. I couldn't wait for Rotel any longer. So I guess my next Rotel purchase will likely be a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray uni-player.

I bought a DVD-2900 a few months ago and have been very happy with it. I am looking at dedicated Redbook CD players though and would be willing to give consideration to an audio only unit.

[csuzor]

There are probably a lot of guys like you and I, who couldn't wait for Rotel to launch an SACD unit, and who bought other popular brands because they had SACD (Denon is big winner there).

However, I still want a dedicated audio unit from Rotel, and let the kids play with the Denon. I am assuming that a dedicated audio unit would either be cheaper than a universal player, and/or the audio quality would be better.

Seems like many brands (below and above Rotel prices) now have at least 1 SACD offering... What is Rotel doing? Anybody have insider knowledge?

[junior77blue]

Marantz SA8260 dedicated SACD

[lars]

What is Rotel doing? Anybody have insider knowledge?

Seconded - It would definately help those of us who plan to buy in the near future to know if there's something on the horizon -

[eelco74]

I own a 2900 right now, since it was a very good replacement for both my RCD975 CD player as well as my RDV-985 DVD player. I got a plasma recently and I am very happy with the progressive picture.

However if Rotel would bring out such a player, and it sounds better than my 2900, I might be tempted to upgrade.

[lmib]

I need a look a like for my RSX 1055. Optically symetric with better CD and SACD sound than my yamaha SACD2300 would be perfekt.
I would definitely replace my Yamaha even only for optical reasons. In the meantime I listen to CD's with my !072 and only 'SACD only CD's'
are run in the Yamaha. Rotel could take a SACD from another brand and relabel it, like they did with the older DVD's (wich originally were JVC Modells).
I hope they do, cause I don't wanna wait on HD Players. Probably I would like it more to have such a HD Player from LOEWE,
the same manufacturer my LCD TV is from, to have a better system integration.

[Mark-n-b]

We need both SACD and DVD-A.

I asked Rotel (via B&W) recently if they were to release a universal player and their reply was that they were working on a new player that was HDMI compliant but they would not be drawn on the SACD playback ability of the unit.

I can only assume that this was because they defiantly did not know, because I cannot see a valid reason to withhold this information when they freely told me about the new player with HDMI interface.

The fact is you need both SACD multichannel and DVD-A multichannel playback. I'm my experience both formats seem to be surviving side by side, with many artists choosing SACD and others choosing DVD-A.

Last year I bought 2 SACDs from my local Tesco! :E This told me that the format was at embryonic stage on the high street. I have never seen a DVD-Audio disk in my local record shop let alone a Supermarket!

Mark

[aphexist]

I purchased a new Denon 3910 recently for a great price. I wanted a _solid_ CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A player for my current collection. I have about 1500 CD, 200 DVD, 30 SACD, 20 DVD-A. The Pioneer universal I have been using was kind of flimsy, and the video was a little lacking, considering I am about to get into the front projector arena. I will continue to buy and enjoy SACD/DVD-A as long as they are available and reasonably priced.

Most of the lage chains where I buy software have a well-stocked high-res audio section. Virgin/Tower/Best Buy all have separate sections and get new releases on a timely basis.

I'm not planning on being an early adopter of HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. I waited about two hardware generations before I bought my first DVD player, same with SACD/DVD-A, and I have been happy with my decisions. Prices will drop, hardware will mature, software will be widely available, I and will buy then.

[PewterTA]

I think Rotel would be crazy at this point of the game to make a SACD/DVD-A player. I agree that they should just go full out on the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray model that will support the formats.

I (for one) have been completely disappointed that they never did push the SACD/DVD-A formats as well as they should've. If they had really wanted those formats to succeed, then they could've done it. But there are hardly any "popular" artist that are on those formats. None of the "top 10" chart busters have their discs out in those formats, so those formats aren't going to sell like they could.

I mean just look at how DVDs took off, albeit was due to the Playstation 2 release, that kicked off the DVD market since there was a video game system/DVD player. I still think that DVDs wouldn't have done as well if it wasn't for the push of the PS2.

If the backing and support was there for the SACD/DVD-A and new artists that are up and coming and popular (that records sales hit platinum), and the format more supported the portable market, then it would take off. Just look at how quickly Mp3s became a normal as soon as it went portable. Though I don't think an optical unit will ever really replace what a "mp3" type unit can be with the portable market.

So I think Rotel is smart and waiting for the next gens to really solidify and take form before they start releasing mass amounts of various audio equipment. I'd rather see Rotel stick to having a few units (that are really good) than being a main stream mass amounts of varying units that are just "average." It's definitely a fine line to walk.

[aud19]

I do believe DVD was considered "succesful" prior to PS2 even being released...

[Andrew Pratt]

Unless something changes I don't see Rotel releasing a SACD player..in the big picture it and DVD-A are dead format's. DualDisc has some limited potential but really the mass public doen'st care about high resolution music. DVD's were sucessful for the same reason CD's were...convienience over tape.

[Nick M]

Unfortunately I think Andrew is right. I love my SACDs and DVD-A, but it seems most people would rather hoard 300 low-quality 2ch tunes onto an iPOD rather than cherish 8 or 9 multichannel masterpieces through a multichannel system.

I'm going to hoard my SACD/DVD-A titles though while the mass goes the way of the Tivo and MP3 server.

[gd]

the mass public doen'st care about high resolution music. DVD's were sucessful for the same reason CD's were...convienience over tape.

I'd take it a (sad) step further... the mass public doesn't care about music... other than background noise in their busy 'lifestyles'.

Video is the pivot point for elctronics marketers.

Even if it was a lucky guess, Rotel ultimately did the right thing by resisting SACD... tho I would've jumped on a Rotel uni.

For now, my entry-level Pioneer gives me a passable taste of hi-res... without a big investment.

I think the best that music lovers can hope for is that the upcoming hi-res video formats take off... that will necessarily mean a high-capacity disc, which in turn could carry any high-res audio, whether an old or new format.

Kinda sad that music has become the ugly stepchild... video really did kill the radio star.

[Nick M]

Count me as one of the minority with ~$5k in audio equipment (which will hit around $6k by the time I'm finished) matched to a $65 13" Sanyo TV... :B

Oh well. I listen to the radio more than I watch TV (don't have cable)... :P

The Radio Star Lives! xx)... well, maybe not...

[csuzor]

I personally feel any idea that sacd/dvd-a will die anytime soon is wrong.
There are many of these discs hitting gold sales status around the world, and even a few top-10 artists releasing their album in these formats (in europe anyway). You can often find the sacd version for $1 to $4 more than the cd version (it doesnt cost more than that to manufacture sacd, so if they sell it for $10 more then it's high profit, very lucrative for everybody), in some cases only the sacd version exists, but more importantly there are consumers who buy hi-res discs they would not buy as cd, which is tempting for music labels. Selling into a market already capable of using the disc will always win, over trying to sell a new format requiring new players, especially since the extra storage capacity of the new format is not needed for audio.

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/index.asp

Dan Waite, International Marketing Manager at Universal Music International says that “SA-CD is an emerging market and still represents a small fraction of CD sales. However, these sales figures are exclusively SA-CD related and they illustrate the potential that the format offers – its superb multi-channel audio quality, robust anti-piracy measures and CD compatibility are important factors which appeal to us and our music-buying customers in Europe.”

[Stevebez]

Think DVD-A and SACD have missed a big opportunity. Neither of them took advantage to provide good video with very good sound.

Both sound formats were really very good but cost intensive in terms of production and re-engineering... and did not exploit the costly production of the videos either.

To me they should just provide a 7.1-5.1 DD / DTS & 2 CH analogue stereo music DVD with the music videos to watch should you so desire and if one is available... Standard DVD easily has the capacity for this.

I have only really seen DVD produced in this way for live concerts. This may be fine but if you want a non-live rendition you are a little stuck in terms of choice.

A compillation / album of this nature would surely make CD's seem a little dated and one dimensional with the sound on DVD superior or at the very least comparable.

Guess we have to wait for BluRay to set them straight.

As for a player - I am waiting for new technology ... I have a couple of DVD-A's that I listen to in DTS / DD 5.1 and its pretty impressive - although without the music video ....!

Rgds Steve.

[gianni]

I have read opinions of audio professionals who believe that recording techniques are a bigger factor in the end result than the actual format. My experience confirms this. Without top rate original recording and miking, and a good acoustic space to begin with, the format is almost irrelevant. Much of today's popular music just does not lend itself to the benefits of the hi-rez formats.

Some of the best recordings I've heard were on plain 'ol CD and the good ones, especially from the audiophile labels do sound better than most SACD's or DVD-A's from the big mainstream labels. I would like to see more engineers take the time to produce a quality product but I think the odds are slim to none that this will happen. So in my mind if the hi-rez formats are to survive, it will be through continued use by the better labels.

If Rotel is going to continue to offer a Hi-Rez player, I feel it should include SACD as well as the Hi-Rez library is too small to ignore either format. In all truth, rather than the current adaptation of SACD and DVD-A, I would much rather see 96/24 DVD's in 2 ch like Chesky was producing. Not having the copy protection, it is really great to be able to feed a 96/24 signal to my pre/pro DIGITALLY! I'd take that over the multi-channel any day.

[csuzor]

Let me suggest something difficult:
Rotel won't release their SACD player yet because they don't want to lose some of their reputation with a player that gets bashed for poor sound quality.

A quick visit here

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hirez/bbs.html

(thread "SACD sound quality")
may convince some that sacd does have advantages over cd (even in stereo mode), and that a good recording will always sound more natural on sacd than cd, but most players are not high enough quality (esp when comparing high-end CD players against universal dvd/sacd players or mid-range sacd/cd players).

I guess I am also hopeful, when Rotel eventually does release an SACD player (I can't imagine they will totally ignore this market forever, when all its competitors are not), it will be a great piece of audio for its price, like most (all?) of its other products.

So come on Rotel, get it right and release it. (please?)

Christophe

[Mark-n-b]

...
So come on Rotel, get it right and release it. (please?)
...
Christophe

couldn't agree more.

[lmib]

Rotel Dealer's Rumours

Yesterday I went to my dealer to by a Rotel RDV-1060, cause my wife's cousin got a sweet young girl named Marie and he always sends me SVCD's my Yamaha DVD 2300 cannot play and I'm rid of watching them on my small notebook.

So I took the SVCD and a MP3 CD with Tierra Negra Flamenco in 256 kBit on it to test the Display of the 1060 showing the ID3 Tags of the songs. But my dealer has two stores with different closing time and the one I went to had no RDV-1060 in stock only the RDV-1050 so I tested this one which cannot show the ID 3 tags of the MP3 CD. By the way the ID3 tags where shown on the TV screen but not on the display of the RDV-1060 an the SVCD run also.

We came into discussion if it worth to go for the RDV-1060, cause he had an offer for the RDV-1050 for 498,-€ instead of the RDV-1060 for 998,-€ espellialy when Rotel starts to release a universal player on the IFA (Internationale Funkaustellung) in Berlin in September.
Now I was really interested. He said, that these where all rumours, but I should think If I shouldn't wait till september.
He offered me to keep the RDV-1050 and the RDV-1060 till next week, so I can think about it. So now I'm a bit confused about it, if I should wait.

What do you think?

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi

when Rotel starts to release a universal player on the IFA (Internationale Funkaustellung) in Berlin in September.

I have seen pictures of (what was claimed to be) the prototype of this Universal Player and my source was also talking September as a release date and a RDV-1090 or similar as a model number...

So if it is a hoax it is international...

Geoff

[GregoriusM]

SLIGHTLY off the topic?

Why would Denon release the 3805 and 5805 receivers with Denon Link 3 (and no doubt the 4806), which was engineered to be able to take the digital feed from DVD-A / SACD players directly from the players to the receiver IF DVD-A and SACD are dead?

If Denon is investing in the technology for SACD / DVD-A, I would agree with the person above who said that Rotel may be waiting to be sure that they come up with a GREAT player, and not just a GOOD one.

IMHO.

[shadow]

Unless something changes I don't see Rotel releasing a SACD player..in the big picture it and DVD-A are dead format's. DualDisc has some limited potential but really the mass public doen'st care about high resolution music. DVD's were sucessful for the same reason CD's were...convienience over tape.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but how can Rotel claim to be a high end company and have no player that plays one of only two high resolution media sources available? Considering that Pioneer does it with sub $300 players, it sure as heck is not cost. Rotel needs to ACT like a high end company and offer the best player to its customers that plays ALL hi def formats. Otherwise, its just another bean counting manufacturer. :roll:

[booktrunk]

What does playing a format have to do with high end...

Most companies these days don't do turntables, does that mean all of those companies are no longer high end.

ALSO Meridian... rather a high end company in the UK don't do a SACD Player.

Musical Fidelity don't do a DVD-A player... etc... there are loads of companies out there that dont do BOTH!!

It does not mean a thing...

IMHO of course

Steff

[csuzor]

Good point booktrunk, but Meridian is a biased player in the market: MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) is theirs, and used on all DVD-A (they helped to develop it, so they are naturally trying to promote it, and they can bring out quality from DVD-A no other manufacturer can).

I like shadow's point, but it seems Rotel made an early marketing error with their choice of drive (not SACD compatible), and now it seems they have selected a compatible drive, so Rotel should have an SACD player soon. There is a market for it. The better question now is, how much and when?

The industrials behind the ever-growing list of SACDs in the classical domain have invested in higher-than-CD-quality recording/mixing equipment, and will continue to release albums to make money from those persons, like me, who have equipment that favors SACD over CD quality.

Unfortunately for DVD-A, there is no focus on market segment (if anything, pop music?), so this format may not survive (imho, highly controversial statement!) because the market may just as easily embrace DD or DTS (perceived as good by most) on standard DVD.

For those that have Meridian 800 series players (>$10k!) or similar, that can play CD to match typical SACD players, fine, buy CDs or hybrids or dualdiscs.

For the rest of us, there are high quality high value companies with sacd solutions (or upcoming solutions like Rotel !)

[Elvis]

I think Denon has proven very well that there is a fortune in dvda/sacd players,Rotel sounds great but they are one strange company,imo.Denon did'nt make a bundle because of their name,they made it because they offered a quality player that could do many things pretty well,while others sat on their hands.

[gianni]

I think Denon has proven very well that there is a fortune in dvda/sacd players,Rotel sounds great but they are one strange company,imo.Denon did'nt make a bundle because of their name,they made it because they offered a quality player that could do many things pretty well,while others sat on their hands.

Exactly!

I don't know the numbers but I would guess a mass market brand like Denon does have some advantages of spreading things like SACD license costs over many more units. I doubt Rotel could ever compete on features and bang for the buck. However, I for one would consider paying a little more for a good universal from Rotel. The performance has to be there though. And, I want Digital video output, Good Redbook CD playback and base management for ALL formats.

Or else come September, if Rotel falls shy with the new mystery player, I'll be demoing Denon, Arcam and Marantz.

[GregoriusM]

I agree too!

[lmib]

RDV 1090 definitely not a Universal

Hello all SACD Player Fans,

last Wednesday I had time to hear and test the 1050 in comparison to the 1060. I recognized, that the 1060 shows only 8 characters of the ID3 tags on the TV screen. The 1050 doesn't show the ID3 tags, but it show the full names of the MP3 songs on the CD. The 1060 is not able to play a MP3 CD with folders. It always stands in the root folder and you have to change into the folders, where the songs are in, by foot, and this is only possible, when turning on the TV, and look at the screen, where you are. I recognized that the 1050 dircectly starts to play, when you press the play button, without any navigation and starting the TV. The 1050 is also much faster than the 1060 starting up and playing MP3's or SVCD. The 1060 has the better Video and Audio Quality but it hasn't the possibility to finetune the Video Options like saturation, kontrast, gamma or brightness.

I definitely wanted to go for the 1060 cause of the SCART the 1050 doesn't has and I was really surprised when my Dealer showed me the SCART on the 1050E which is the European Model with SCART especially for Europe.

For 498,- special price I couldn't stand any longer and took the 1050E cause the 1060 costs 998,- and had to be ordered while the 1050E was in stock.

After I tested the Progressive Scan I was breathless and really happy that I have the fine tuning option in the menue to lower the kontrast and increase the brightness. The presets in normal and cinema are not bad, but my wife and me, we like it bright with not to much digital high up contrast, a bit more smooth like analogue TV. So I'm glad I took the 1050E, cause the 1060 doesn't has this feature.

Probably the RDV has this option too and additionaly also DVI and/or HDMI outputs but my dealer sad, that it definitely doesn't has SACD in case of license reasons. So I still have to hear my SACD's with my YAMAHA, until Rotel is going to recognize, that there is a market for SACD.

So the next upgrade could be the new digital amplifier 1077.
What do think, could it be a real improvement for me,
although I'm not hearing loud music?

Ciaó lmib :E

[csuzor]

RDV 1090 definitely not a Universal
Probably the RDV has this option too and additionaly also DVI and/or HDMI outputs but my dealer sad, that it definitely doesn't has SACD in case of license reasons. So I still have to hear my SACD's with my YAMAHA, until Rotel is going to recognize, that there is a market for SACD.

imib, are you saying that the RDV-1090 will not be able to play SACD?
I deduct that from the title of your post, and the above paragraph...
Is your dealer someone who has some reliable insider information?
That would be a major disappointment for a few of us.

[jimmyp58]

The Rotel won't do SACD. In addition, neither will the ARCAM (only DVD-A). Denon & Marantz have true universal players and there are more than just these two though they are very good in their own right. Onkyo has a dandy and if Sherwood-Newcastle ever gets to finally releasing theirs (the SD-860 will be released in two weeks and the long awaited SD-871 has been pushed back again...September). There are many others too....

[csuzor]

The Rotel won't do SACD.

Thanks for the feedback, coming from industry experts I have to assume you are right and have non-public information.

I can only hope, that your statement applies to the upcoming RDV model, and not a corporate Rotel policy. Why not ask Rotel to release their next CD player with SACD capability as well? Wishful thinking...

If Rotel won't ever have an SACD player, then they are basically giving up the quality classical music market. No new disk format will catch up to SACD in this market in the next few years, and CD is losing out to SACD for quality and surround channel reasons.

For classical music enthusiasts, is it time to sell Rotel and move into another brand altogether? Maybe I should never have bought Rotel. Sure I can buy another brand's sacd player, but I wanted a cohesive, integrated look to my system as well as sound quality and value for money.

[eelco74]

Sure you can buy anotner brand DVD players, I have a all Rotel system and have bought Rotel for 15 years now. And I had no problem buying a Denon DVD-2900. I took the black one and it looks pretty good to me.

The problem is, it is almost always safe to buy a Rotel. But after the dissappointing Denon 3810 amp, I was a bit reluctant to buy anonohter Denon. But the DVD-2900 is a pretty good product.

[csuzor]

Since Rotel / Classe are part of B&W group, has anyone heard the Classe CDP-300 universal player (incl multi-channel SACD)? Is it great? What does it cost? Is it actively promoted by B&W? There are some nice universal players available nowadays, with apparently excellent audio (Primare comes to mind). If Rotel won't build one, we need to look elsewhere, pure audio or universal players.

[martino]

I recently traded in my Rotel 1060 for a Marantz DV9500, as i was very dissapointed in the software available..the 1060 was great at CD and DVD-A...but the selection of SACD is so much better.
I agree that at this point Rotel won't release a SACD player.
I also firmly believe SACD will be around for a good while (certainly longer than DVD-A) as it is going to be 3-5 yrs befor this HD-DVD / Blu-ray crap is finalized and there is any decent software availabe.

Martin

[RebelMan]

I also firmly believe SACD will be around for a good while (certainly longer than DVD-A) as it is going to be 3-5 yrs befor this HD-DVD / Blu-ray crap is finalized and there is any decent software availabe.

Martin, you must be clairvoyant! :lol: