has anyone bi-wired there speakers

[fattner]

what is the advantage in bi-wiring your speakers vs using the amp two amps in mono ????(ex: 2 stereo amp's set in mono 1 amp per speakers vs. bi-wiring the one amp half the power to the high and the other half to the low's

[Pookie007]

This has be brought up a few times this past year. I looked at the same options. I decided to run 2 amps in mono and I bought a set of Cat cables that have a single set of bananas on the amp end and 2 sets of bananas on the speaker end so I could remove the jumper. The disadvantage to this method is the amps might run hotter when bridged and you might increase distortion. I did a bunch of experimenting and didn't' experience ether of these problems. I think my speakers sounded more dynamic with the increased power.

The option of using 2 amps in stereo would pretty much require an active crossover prior to the amps and removal of the crossovers in the speakers. If you don't actively cross the signal prior to the amp, the amp is working to reproduce the full range just to get it chopped at the speaker. By actively using an active crossover the amp is only working to amplify the portion of the frequency spectrum you intend to use. If you leave the crossovers in the speakers you could also create a hole if you have overlapping settings. I was also concerned I would not get the setting to the right point where the speakers were designed to work.

[fattner]

bi -wiring from the amp to the speakers

I will try to explain myself better,I have two Mac-Intoish 252 set in mono right now (250 wtt/ch in stereo/500 wtt/ch set in mono)my speakers are Maganpan 3.6's (able to bi wired w/ their exturnal cross overs that the speaker has )anyway I heard these speakers bi wired at the stereo store were I purchased my system and they sounded very nice .The way they were wired was 2 sets of cables (highs-lows) coming off the speaker to the R-L channels of each amp and the amps connected the the R 1&2 ,L1@2 on the pre-amp Mac-c45 both the amps are set in stereo.My system now is set both amps(252's) mono with one set of kimber cables to each amp's,then each amps to the R-L channel to the pre-amp 's. Is there advange to bi wiring or not ,in mono the amp's run cool.Harry

[Briz vegas]

Based on the theory spoken by the believers biwire benefits should still apply in your situation.

Only way to find out if it is worth doing is to try for yourself. The great sound in the shop could have been for any number of reasons including the room as a big factor. You need to borrow some cable and listen to it at home. I am in the process of practicing what I preach (I'm waiting for a demo set to become available).

YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR ANSWER HERE OR ON ANY FORUM. I've been reading these forums for years and folks remain divided on the topic.

If you watch the extras on the Audio Club of Athens DVD you will see dealers and audiophiles refusing to even talk about things like power cords and wires as opinion is so divided. For the record I hear differences between power cords, interconnects, speaker wire - but that is me (I see dead people also :rofl: ) and I have no interest in trying to convince anyone other than to say "try it yourself". If it works for you with your listening habits and with your rooms acoustics with your gear and your music then :T

[fattner]

thanks for your input!! Harrry

[Pookie007]

Harry,

I understood what you were saying. I think Maggies are one of the few speakers that make it simple to remove the passive crossover in the speaker. Peter in the Parasound forums has spoke about this before. For a B&W owner like me, the crossover is internal, so it makes it more difficult.

Back to my statement about needing an active crossover. If you remove the cross over at the speaker, you have to add one prior to the amps. If not you send a full range signal to both groups of speaker drivers. So if you don't have an active crossover, you have to leave the speaker cross over in place.

I don't know what will sound better to you, but I tried my system both ways:
1) 2 amps in stereo with 2 sets of cables, one to each set of post
2) 2 amps in mono with a single set of cables, jumpered the posts

I preferred the two amps in mono. After completing my test, I simplified my connection by getting custom speaker cables to eliminate the jumper.

[fattner]

thanks ,my speaker I believe have the active crossover you are talking about at the back of each of the speakers (bi-wire input) ..thank again for your input...Harry :T

[Kal Rubinson]

thanks ,my speaker I believe have the active crossover you are talking about at the back of each of the speakers (bi-wire input) ..thank again for your input...Harry :T

Not unless you added it. AFAIK, Magnepan does not supply such.

Kal

[fattner]

maybe I stupid so please explain ,because the way the speakers(maggies 3.6) were wired @ the stereo shop was at the back of the 3.6 's there is a external crossover that allows you to input one set of cables (regular way )or 2 sets bi wire them @the crossover box and thats the way they did it ,I hope I am explaining myself correctly .

[Kal Rubinson]

maybe I stupid so please explain ,because the way the speakers(maggies 3.6) were wired @ the stereo shop was at the back of the 3.6 's there is a external crossover that allows you to input one set of cables (regular way )or 2 sets bi wire them @the crossover box and thats the way they did it ,I hope I am explaining myself correctly .

That's simply an external passive crossover. There's no power cord going to it, is there?

Kal

[fattner]

no ,but there instructions explain bi- wiring to the amp.the way the store had their system the maggies were bi-wired with 2 sets of cables from the back of the 3.6's to each mc275(high to one speaker connection and the lows to the other connection (each amp had this configuration)then outputs from the amp to the pre-amp (one amp to the R1 -channel of the c-2200 and R2,then the other amp to the L1,2,)it sound pretty nice to me .Do you think its bad to configure your system this way ?Or just run them (mono r-l )non -bi wired. :cry:

[Kal Rubinson]

I am afraid I cannot understand what you mean.

Kal

[Victor]

fattner,

You are using your amps in a bridged configuration, - right?

Be it as it may, bi-wiring while using passive crossover has no impact on the end result. Reason being is that passive crossover still places energy storing elements in the signal path, thereby preventing the amplifier from controlling the speaker directly.

Any amp, bridged or not, used with a passive cross-over will have this problem. You do, however, get a better power delivery to your speakers because you have more power available. This alone may give a marginally better sound under the extreme conditions only, due to the delayed clipping.

Considering a scientific perspective, - passive bi-wiring adds nothing because the superposition principle dictates that the signal in such set-up is not effected regardless if you use one amp per driver in a given speaker or one amp per each driver in the same speaker.

Now, - active cross-over set-up is an entirely different thing and I would certainly encourage you to try it if you can. The improvement in sound quality is dramatic.

I have old Carver Platinum IV speakers that I use with DSP-based (digital) active cross-over with great results. I recall doing a test years ago, where I left a passive cross-over modified for bi-wired input in one speaker and used the other speaker with the active cross-over. Well, - the differences were, as I said, dramatic, with actively crossed speaker sounding by far much cleaner and much more detailed. The reduction in THD due to the active crossover was the reason for sound improvement.

[fattner]

what arcoss over do you recommend?? and yes to your answer 2 amp's both the amps are set in stereo mode though, one set of tremminals to the highs and the other to the lows and the balanced interconnects go to r-1,2 on one amp andL 1,2 ..for the other .Thanks for your response ...Harry

[Victor]

what arcoss over do you recommend?

Harry,

What cross-over do I recommend?

Well, - as I said in my post, - if you can use an active cross-over then this is your best bet in order to get the best sound. Question is, - can you use an active cross-over with your Maggis 3.6?

First of all, I do not know if your speakers are designed for active cross-over use, - that is to say if you actually can remove the existing passive cross-over. Assuming for a moment that you can do that, still, an off-the-shelf analog active cross-over, such as Behringer 2300, may not be usable due to the equalization that your Maggis will require.

With that in mind I must caution you here; - you must know what you are doing when you venture into the active cross-over set-up.

One possible approach might be is to use Behringer dcx2496 along side with Behringer deq2496 or any other rudimentary measurement system in order to fix the equalization.

I actually build an analog active cross-over for my Carvers Mark IV based on the available schematics of the passive cross-over and some crude measurements.

Again, - and off the shelf active cross-over all by itself will NOT do the trick. I hope that it helps.
Regards,
Victor

[fattner]

thanks ...Harry

[Bob]

I'm with Kal, are you sure you are describing correctly how the speakers were wired to the amp. Could it be possible that what you are trying to describe is vertical bi-amping. Not bi-wiring?

[fattner]

yes ,I found out thats what I am trying to do...is this a good thing for maggies ???