Higher quality Power cord? hype or marketing nonsense?

[Minivan]

Are claims of power cords being of higher quality improving sound quality of amps using them true? Or is this just marketing hype to make you waste money on them?

[Nolan B]

Marketing hype. 100%. I have one expensive power cord i bought because its exposed in my system and needs to look good.

[Sim reality]

Some else put it to me best:

1000s of km and 1000s of windings supplied by the cheapest bidder
millions of users injecting feedback into the grid
100's of meters of household wiring
dozens of friction held sockets

2 meters of power cord

That is asking a lot from a power cord...

[nash]

Exactly... I can't see the point when you are plugging into some cheap house wiring. If you had a really nice dedicated/isolated power line wired to your rack/room, then maybe.

[voxy]

Exactly... I can't see the point when you are plugging into some cheap house wiring. If you had a really nice dedicated/isolated power line wired to your rack/room, then maybe.

true.

Here is my take. Getting a properly built power distributor is more important. I did a star wired box (with Belden cables) and the background becomes much darker. I even use it for TV and it helps to make the picture clearer. :B

Just changing expensive cables without "cleaning" the mains does not help much. BTW, no need expensive power cables, just get some Belden and DIY would be sufficient for amps. Base on experience PC only have more effect on electronic source.

Spent more money on good interconnect, the returns are better.

[Elvis]

hype? lol,that's a nice way to say it.

[Wardo]

Not all hype.
Sim Reality is right, but, all that nasty wiring should stop at a good line conditioner. It is only after the conditioner that they will make a difference, which is the reason we also use shielded interconnects. Once you clean up the power you want to keep it clean, good cables are the only way. But if you are plugging your equipment right into the wall then forget about them.
I think good power cables shouldn’t cost anymore than 150$ US, anything more is just hype.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

I've moved this away from Club Rotel to here as it has nothing to do with Rotel.

Also, I would (gently) suggest that the history of these threads is not good. So I ask people in advance to stay on topic, respect each others opinions and (as far as posible) limit to personal experiences with power cords and whether or not they made a difference, rather than beliefs that they can't or can make a difference etc...

Regards

Geoff

[Minivan]

Are these the types of line conditioners you are talking about?:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/APC-Line-R-1250I-conditioner-Connector/dp/B00006HS8A

[Minivan]

or this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...k-21/ref=nosim

[Wardo]

this is what i would use, in my opinion they are the best. even better that Richard Grey.

http://www.furmansound.com/products/pro/pwr_cond_seq/cond/_15a/pl8_2.php

[gross30]

Same here, I purchased 4 power cords because they were exposed and I liked the looks of them. As to whether or not they made a difference, not sure , but man do they look good. I'm happy with them.

[Midnite Mick]

I think that for whatever reason it is item specific. I had purchased a PSAudio Statement cord for my jolida cdp at the time and it made a very significant difference in increasing the uppers and in a clean way. I have since moved on to a Consonance player and it makes no audible difference. Both pieces of gear are tube products as well.

Mike

[joetama]

Wow, I have used the Furman's on Pro-PA and Full Range Audio Motor sport events but thought the Richard Gray was better at home. Either way I think both the RG and the Furman's are both pretty effective devices.

Anyway, I have seen different "better" power cords used on anything from QSC and Crest to Rotel and Classe and I do think there is a different. I think power is a HUGE thing in making something sound and work it's best. And the cables help push it to it's max...

[JudyLou]

High grade interconnects and speaker cables made sense to me and proved to my hearing to be better. Power cables didn’t make sense to me – same thoughts as some of the above comments. Then our imported borrowed me a 500mm Big Red from Ecosse to try. He didn’t try to convince me or anything, just said, try it! I was blown away, really, no joke, neither my imagination – I really didn’t expect any improvement in sound quality, but got plenty. Only way I can describe it – what I thought was part of the music in the recordings wasn’t – it was impurities, now it’s gone. It’s like using a video camera when the wind is blowing, you get used to it. Till the wind stops – suddenly everything is clear. It works. I don’t know about other names, but the Ecosse sure do work.
Lourens
:T

[kurtholz]

I agree, i'm a believer in better cords,

but magic marbles i'm still on the fence about

:-)

Kurt

[pearsall001]

Boy, am I glad I'll be saving money on this one. All of Frank Van Alstine's gear comes with a good old fashioned 2 prong cord. This takes away the temptation to try an aftermarket cord. Frank is a no BS kind of a guy and says to save your money and buy some good music instead of a nonsense power cord. I've got to go with Frank on this one. I have his amp & it performs superbly, 2 prong cord mind you. And another thing that this takes care of is that annoying hum that some gear generates. You just won't get it with a 2 prong cord. I had a 502B Jolida int amp that put a hum in my system that you wouldn't believe. With Frank's gear - dead silence. I just ordered his Ultra DAC & it to comes with a 2 prong cord. You really have to wonder, how much voo-doo & snake oil is really out there waiting for you to spend your money on. Buyer beware!!!

[joetama]

Hmmm isn't that ground feed in there for protection?

[whoaru99]

Hmmm isn't that ground feed in there for protection?

Only on components designed that way.

[chinets]

Hype and marketing nonsense. I'll vote for that!!!

I'm with Kurtholz ,that Magic marbles are still the most effective way to hear Top notch clear sounding music !!!!!!!!!!!!

Have fun with those power cords!!! Beware of electricity!!!!

[whoaru99]

Are claims of power cords being of higher quality improving sound quality of amps using them true? Or is this just marketing hype to make you waste money on them?

I have somewhat of an anecdote to share....

A friend of mine, Lyle, was (actually is) always looking for an edge, so to speak. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but it makes him easy prey for many gimmicks.

Lyle drives to work every day, about 60 miles round trip, and gas is taking a sizeable bite from his modest income. So, Lyle buys a "platinum injector gas mileage increaser". The instructions say easy installation and go through mounting the little canister, putting in the solution, plumbing it to the engine, etc. Now comes the fine print after everything else is in place. "To achieve maximum effect from the "platinum injector", advance the ignition timing 4 degrees."

So, Lyle completes the installation and carefully drives the car for a week dilligently recording miles and fuel used. After the week he proclaims "WOW, this thing really works, you need one of these!!!" To which I reply, "Cool, glad it works out for you.".

[JudyLou]

All I can say is - don't take anyone's word that good power cables do work - try it yourself - you'll hear the difference. If you don't, well sorry, then you need to trade in those 802D's for something much cheaper, because your hearing must be to far gone to really appreciate them.

[whoaru99]

All I can say is - don't take anyone's word that good power cables do work - try it yourself - you'll hear the difference. If you don't, well sorry, then you need to trade in those 802D's for something much cheaper, because your hearing must be to far gone to really appreciate them.

Cool, glad your "platinum injection mileage increaser" works out for you. :T

[Sim reality]

All I can say is - don't take anyone's word that good power cables do work - try it yourself - you'll hear the difference. If you don't, well sorry, then you need to trade in those 802D's for something much cheaper, because your hearing must be to far gone to really appreciate them.

You know, attacking someones ability to hear or not hear something is not a good way to make friends...

Whether you hear or don't hear a difference is really dependent on your setup, household wiring and how clean the power is to begin with, how much capacitance power supplied have, etc, etc...

My question though is: do you have power conditioning applied to your audio gear?

[whoaru99]

The part I find really amazing is how many high-end companies send out products with inferior power cords. :E

It must be a conspiracy to let the aftermarket have a cut of the pie. :W

[JudyLou]

You know, attacking someones ability to hear or not hear something is not a good way to make friends...

Whether you hear or don't hear a difference is really dependent on your setup, household wiring and how clean the power is to begin with, how much capacitance power supplied have, etc, etc...

My question though is: do you have power conditioning applied to your audio gear?

Hi Sim - sorry, I'm not attacking anyones hearing - I'm just stating how amazing I find these power cables from Ecosse. I can't believe that someone that has a decent system will not notice the difference.

I myself was very sceptic about power cable - till I tried it, as I mentioned in a previous post. I could not believe that without any other power conditioning gear or filters, that a .800m power cable could make a difference. I was so impressed I even took my Harman Kardon CD player's factory fitted cable out, drilled the hole bigger and silver soldered the new power cable to the board - what a change!

Kindly
Lourens

[sonicbaer]

JudyLou

If you think power cards make a difference...you should try
Tansparents power conditioners.

I quit making statements like that as a general rule cuz to many think I
a lunatic..but I just couldn't resist tonight..

Mike the baerrman

[whoaru99]

I quit making statements like that as a general rule cuz to many think I
a lunatic..but I just couldn't resist tonight..

Mike the baerrman

IMO, there is quite a difference in saying "the cable seemed to make a difference" vs. "the cable made a difference". The first, seems more a statement of opinion, the latter more a statement of fact. It's the latter that gives hearburn to the non-believer crowd.

[Martyn]

"Are claims of power cords being of higher quality improving sound quality of amps using them true? Or is this just marketing hype to make you waste money on them?"

I'm continually amazed that we need to ask questions like this. Surely this is one of the easiest questions to answer - much easier than questions like "Do amps sound different?" How hard can it be to have this issue resolved by an objective arms-length third-party researcher under controlled conditions? Surely not all that hard. So why hasn't it been done? Because it would benefit no-one except the poor old consumer. As long as such issues remain unresolved, magazines will continue to be sold and consumers will continure to "up-grade".

Frank Van Alstine attempted similar tests with speaker cables. See his website (http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_ba...-01_cables.htm) for detals of his approach and findings (just in case you can't guess what happened).

[bigburner]

You will find that the colour of the power cord can influence the sound of your amp too. Cords at the red end of the spectrum tend to produce a warm sound, whereas those at the violet end tend to be cool. Those in the middle of the colour spectrum generally produce an analytical sound.

Another tip. If you want to sweeten the sound of your system, replace the ceramic risers under your speaker cables with doughnuts. Handy if you run out of midnight snacks too!

[JudyLou]

Frank Van Alstine attempted similar tests with speaker cables. See his website (http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_ba...-01_cables.htm) for detals of his approach and findings (just in case you can't guess what happened).

This article was written in 1990, not so?

[JudyLou]

You will find that the colour of the power cord can influence the sound of your amp too. Cords at the red end of the spectrum tend to produce a warm sound, whereas those at the violet end tend to be cool. Those in the middle of the colour spectrum generally produce an analytical sound.

Another tip. If you want to sweeten the sound of your system, replace the ceramic risers under your speaker cables with doughnuts. Handy if you run out of midnight snacks too!

Have you noticed how the pink coloured cables bring one more in touch with ones feminine side?!

[Alaric]

Ok , I can't take it anymore. To all those who believe theory over reality (if the theory says it's true it must be true.) Communism , in theory , is the perfect system. Reality? It doesn't work. Einstein had a few theories , Stephen Hawking has (so far) disproved a couple. You can hide in your calculators all you want-although most are hiding in someone else' calculator -I can not dismiss the the testimonial of those who say they have proven the theory wrong with thier own ears.
Let's face it , people:The mind is the final judge of what we perceive as reality. If we think it sounds better , then it does. Isn't this hobby about what pleases us? If a better power ( interconnect , speaker , antennae) cord adds to one's enjoyment of the end product IT'S BETTER. Esoteric nonsense like quibbling about where the decimal point is when measuring THD at .002% seems like nothing more than self-consolation regarding one's tightly held belief in one's theory .
Geez , I'm gonna get unloaded on with this one.....

[Alaric]

P.S. I do not include Victor in that little diatribe. He uses his own calculator-and he's pretty damn good with it.

[Alaric]

P.P.S. I'm using the power cords that came with my equipment

[Martyn]

If we think it sounds better , then it does.

So when people thought the world was flat, it was flat?

It should be possible to determine with a high degree of statistical confidence whether two cables sound different. Whether one is "better" than the other could be more subjective, but if would surely be to the advantage of the manufacturer of the better sounding cable to possess such evidence. So why has no-one produced it?

[whoaru99]

And I'm still wondering why mid and high-end companies, afaik, don't include fancy power cords with their gear if they clearly make such a difference.

[Brandon B]

Einstein had a few theories , Stephen Hawking has (so far) disproved a couple.

Got a reference for that?

BB

[tboooe]

And I'm still wondering why mid and high-end companies, afaik, don't include fancy power cords with their gear if they clearly make such a difference.

I think it comes down to the compromise between price and performance. Why doesn't every car manufacturer include a supercharger or turbo since it performs better than normally aspirated engines? Adding fancy power cords may push the price above what they determined was the point their target audience was willing to pay.

[Sim reality]

I am not a moderator, but NEITHER side is going to make friends by attacking each other's ability to hear or not hear differences...

And the world is not round, it is 11 dimentional branes with 7 dimensions wrapped around itself... Or maybe not and it's bubbling mass of quantum energy were dimensions don't matter and only quantum state does...

I personally don't believe power cords could make a sonic difference to me... But I also believe that that perception is 50% of everyones reality, and if they hear a difference, then to them there is a difference.

[whoaru99]

Do you really think cost is much of a factor when someone is looking at Levinson, Krell, Classe, Halcro, et al?

I'd sure think the guys buying this level of gear are those most likely to buy aftermarket cords. The exception being those that are so swayed by anecdotal evidence they believe spending big bucks on a power cord is going to perform some feat of alchemy.

If you were going to pop $5K on an amp then go spend $500 on the cord anyway, why not have one that is "matched" to the amp direct from the mfg. who presumably knows best about the product?

If I were to spend $5K (actually any amount) on a piece of gear I'd be pissed off (and would not consider it an opportunity) if it came down to something as simple as changing the power cord improved the sound.

There is a big difference between a supercharger and a power cord, IMO. I can actually PROVE the supercharged version out performs the non-supercharged version. I needn't rely on someones opinion merely saying it does.

My intent is not to step on anyones toes, but OTOH, I am not necessarily of the opinion that one need lay down just to keep the peace or avoid offending anyone as long as there are no direct personal attacks.

[Andrew M Ward]

If I were to spend $5K (actually any amount) on a piece of gear I'd be pissed off (and would not consider it an opportunity) if it came down to something as simple as changing the power cord improved the sound.

There's the crux of the story right there... (above)

For example Classe’ has changed the wire “inside the box” that carries signal path, to a silver plated 10 gauge… This is wire after the transformer that carries audio signal…

What happens before the transformer need not be any better than the wire inside your walls… Right?

Isn’t the power cord a direct extension of wall power?
What’s behind the sheetrock is ROMEX right up until it hands off to the power cord…if something magical is supposed to happen in that 6 feet of cord I’m fascinated to know?

However,
After it’s passed through the transformer and is flat-lined (converted to DC) wire quality is known to have an effect…(I repeat) AFTER… 8)

[Wardo]

I am a big believer in cords.
You should look at this from a different angle. I don't think it’s the copper that makes the sound quality different, it's is what they can do for your system as a whole. If you can get rid of the interference that a standard cord will cause on lines and cables that are in close proximity then you have spent money wisely, very wisely. If you think that the last meter of wire coming from your wall is going to help then you are not spending your money wisely unless you are keeping the interference away from your gear. It is really that simple. It should also be used in conjunction with a very good line conditioner.
On the flip side, I think the people that spend hundreds and thousands on power cables are crazy. It simply doesn’t cost that much to get rid of the interference that power cords strung across your gear can cause. But I wish I had the money to blow on some of those good looking cords……

[kurtholz]

well, i still think Bixby dirt in a jar is the best tweak, ( $499 per mason jar), a set of ten provides the best results...:-)

on a more serious note, i have several after market cords in my setup, i think they make a difference, the number one no brainer was when i switched out the one on my Benchmark dac

also the cord on my ArcamDV29, and my Krell processor all made minor improvements

to me

but i could most certainly be crazy, as i am completely OCD about very very minor issues,

you think Audio is esoteric in what works and what doesnt, get into art, now this is where opinions vary massively, go online and look at some Christie's or Sotheby's auctions, you will find pre sale estimates on something at $100K and it sells for 2 million, explain that

anyway, There are even people who like Monster amps, and Bose speakers, so to each his own

Kurt

[Alaric]

Martyn-I believe I did say "better"-I think the crux of my post was the fact that much of this hobby is subjective.
I also know it is possible to have two "identical" objects on paper with noticeably different results when executed in a third dimension. I apologize to all if my posts were perceived as saying anyone is "wrong". I was trying to say maybe noone is wrong.