Processor and Pre-Amp

[Stockinv]

What is the difference between a processor and pre-amplifier? I have a Aragon Stage 1 processor. I understand it contains a pre-amp. I'm wondering if having a separate pre-amp and processor would give me a better system. It's a five-channel system and I use it for listening to music 80% and movies 20%. I have B&W speakers (802D) and McIntosh amps
(MC - 501). This is my first hi-end system.

[Danbry39]

I'm not sure as to the separate functions of each, but I think the preamp/processor work together to function in quite a few ways. Again, I'm probably all wrong here, but these functions would include controlling things such as volume and what source you're using, as well as amplifying the signal enough to be picked up by the power amp which, in turn, amplifies it more so that the speakers can play at loud enough volumes. If I had to guess, I'd say that the processor part takes the signal it is being fed, interprets the encoded material, and shapes it in such a way as to give us the final listenable product, like DTS, Dolby Digital, etc.

Hey, I'm just guessing, but I'm hoping someone in the know will chime in rather than having me go on embarassing myself. ops:

Long story short, there's absolutely no reason to buy a separate preamp/processor, although I've heard of people adding on such gear if (1) their equipment has become outdated as happened when, for instance, Dolby Prologic evolved into Dolby Digital and (2) some people add on a separate two-channel preamp if their HT pre/pro doesn't cut it with two-channel audio. Again, though, most people would envy your Aragon.

[Race Car Driver]

From my understanding.
A preamp is a clean audio switching/controlling device.
A processor does just that, its an audio/video processor. All kinds of good fun stuff for the HT folk.

Nothing wrong with a good pro in an audio system IMO, but if its STRICTLY audio, then one would usually get a pre amp as it wouldnt "color" the music, or have video.

Again, that was just my take on it from seeing the product, ive never had it explained to me either.

[Kal Rubinson]

A preamp is an analog controller (volume, balance) and input selector which may have some gain.
A processor, today, is a digital device that manipulates digital sources, converts some analog inputs to digital for such and converts its output to analog for use with standard amplifiers/speakers.

Kal

[chinets]

In todays world ...Pre/pro come in the same box as they say!!!!!!!!! Its an HT toy and a DTS/Dolby Digital Fantasy world, which gives the 5.1 or 7.1 lovers the Joy of Life!
Le Joi de vivre!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As they say!!!!!!!!! A true HT heaven!!!!!!!!!!!
ARGENTINA CAMPEON DEL MUNDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kal Rubinson]

In todays world ...Pre/pro come in the same box as they say!!!!!!!!! Its an HT toy and a DTS/Dolby Digital Fantasy world, which gives the 5.1 or 7.1 lovers the Joy of Life!
Le Joi de vivre!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As they say!!!!!!!!! A true HT heaven!!!!!!!!!!!
ARGENTINA CAMPEON DEL MUNDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They can and, mostly, do. OTOH, the combination is often what makes it uncertain exactly what it is doing.

Kal

[Bob]

While Kal Rubinson pretty much correctly answered your question in two short sentences, those two differences are no small thing.
When I still had a HT set up I had a Theta Casablanca II with all the bells and whistles, all the channels available and the Extreme DACS in the front 3 channels. It was wonderful for movies, fairly good for CD playback ( I had the DaViD II and the Theta Data III for that). It was awful for analog, despite Theta's insistance that it was a true analog bypass.
Eventually I bought a old Audio Research preamp to run my phono stage through when listening to records. Then I borrowed a friends CD player and hooked that up to the ARC preamp. In two channel music, especially analog, this 10 year old preamp put what was considered a fairly good Pre/Pro to shame.
Maybe someday Pre/Pro's will be as good as preamps for music but, that day isn't here yet. If you are fascinated by surround music, as Kal seems to be, then you are stuck with the computerized Pre/Pro's for your listening. Also, if you only listen to CD's and you have never heard a side by side comparison between a equally priced preamp and pre/pro you could be happy for ever.

[Kal Rubinson]

Maybe someday Pre/Pro's will be as good as preamps for music but, that day isn't here yet. If you are fascinated by surround music, as Kal seems to be, then you are stuck with the computerized Pre/Pro's for your listening.

Nope. There are mid-priced analog MCH preamps that will eat the lunch of the so-called high-end pre/pros. All you have to do is be satisfied with CDs, SACDs, DVD-As and LPs!

Kal

[Indytown]

McIntosh C45

[Indytown]

Nope. There are mid-priced analog MCH preamps that will eat the lunch of the so-called high-end pre/pros. All you have to do is be satisfied with CDs, SACDs, DVD-As and LPs!

Kal

McIntosh C45

[Kal Rubinson]

McIntosh C45

Best ergonomics of the bunch but I slightly prefer the sound and flexibility of the BelCanto Pre6, very slightly.

Kal

[Bob]

Sorry Kal, since I lost interest in HT and never cared for surround music I haven't kept up with developments in that area. However, we are both in agreement that preamps have a sonic advantage to pre/pros in regards to music, in answer to the original question posed.

[Kal Rubinson]

Sorry Kal, since I lost interest in HT and never cared for surround music

I am not interested in 'surround music' either. I am interested in the best, most realistic reproduction of music. In fact, I try to avoid the term 'surround,' preferring multichannel since it assumes there are true discrete multiple channels and not some algorithm synthesizing a wash of sound.

Kal

[bleeding ears]

kal, what do you call mid priced? and what mid priced brands of preamp are the ones that come to mind that eat the high end pre pros?

Also have your heard and how do you rate a Rotel rsp 1068 prepro for music in bypass mode?

I do realise a pre pro is a compromise but how much is the question?

Pete

[Kal Rubinson]

kal, what do you call mid priced? and what mid priced brands of preamp are the ones that come to mind that eat the high end pre pros?

BelCanto Pre6. McIntosh C45. I realize that not everyone thinks of these as 'mid-priced' but, compared to the top Theta, Meridian, etc., they are. The new Bryston SP2 is a great approach.

Also have your heard and how do you rate a Rotel rsp 1068 prepro for music in bypass mode?

Dunno. Never used one.

I do realise a pre pro is a compromise but how much is the question?

Not much but some. A quantitative distinction is impossible and a qualitative one is personal.

Kal

[Bob]

If you would consider say, $2500, as "mid priced", there are a slew of pre amps on the used market that will better most top tier pre/pro's (at least Theta which I am very familiar with). Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Herron, Atma-sphere, Audio Note, Rogue, Ayre, and many more. Using $1000 as your criteria there is also plenty of top notch pre amps for sale on the used market.
If you can afford more, my personal favorite as a mid priced preamp is the Hovland 100 with MC phono stage installed. It bested the more expensive Audio Research and Conrad Johnson preamps that I had previous to it. Plus, the phono stage was so good there was no need to get a stand alone one. I had to spend considerable amounts of money to better it (Audio Research Ref 3 and Manley Steelhead phono stage).

[Kal Rubinson]

If you would consider say, $2500, as "mid priced", there are a slew of pre amps on the used market that will better most top tier pre/pro's (at least Theta which I am very familiar with). Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Herron, Atma-sphere, Audio Note, Rogue, Ayre, and many more. Using $1000 as your criteria there is also plenty of top notch pre amps for sale on the used market.

Yeah but none of those are multichannel!!

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal

What would be considered high end multichannel amps? Do you recommend some?

High end multichannel preamps? The McIntosh and the BelCanto that I mentioned. Also the ConradJohnson MET-1.

Kal

[Bob]

Yeah but none of those are multichannel!!

That's their best feature.

[Adolf Holz]

danke sehr

Das Wimmern, nett lederhosen! :T

[Kal Rubinson]

That's their best feature.

Actually, the BC Pre6 can be anything you need. It has 15 pairs of s.e. inputs (which I have arranged as 2 6channel inputs and 3 stereo inputs) plus 1 pair of balanced inputs plus a tape in/out. It has lots of bal/unbal outputs which I have arranged as one 6channel bal out and 1 stereo s.e. out. And I am not even using all the connectors!

So, bottom line: it's a stereo preamp, it's a mch preamp, it's Superman.

Kal

[Bob]

Here is a very positive review of the Bel Canto Pre6 at 6 Moons.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bcdpre6/pre6.html

[alebonau]

Nope. There are mid-priced analog MCH preamps that will eat the lunch of the so-called high-end pre/pros. All you have to do is be satisfied with CDs, SACDs, DVD-As and LPs!

Kal

interesting kal in your use of a quality mch pre-amp without processing for just cd, sacd, dvd-a's and lps. I could very much imagine it being more of a purist solution and seeig of any high end pre-pro for 2ch & multichannel music.

myself I've taken the approach of a dedicated analog 2ch pre in the musical fidelity A5cr pre + pwr for all 2ch duties. And using a HK630 AVR as a pre-pro plus a multichannel power amp for all HT and multichannel needs. The A5 2ch pre has a ht-input for easy incorporation into the ht setup so the mf 2ch pwr amp actually ends up driving the mains for ht and mch.

A year or two down the track I'll probably upgrade the HK with somethign with latest connectivity and processing for the new surround formats that come with the new HD disc players.

[Ovation]

Actually, the BC Pre6 can be anything you need. It has 15 pairs of s.e. inputs (which I have arranged as 2 6channel inputs and 3 stereo inputs) plus 1 pair of balanced inputs plus a tape in/out. It has lots of bal/unbal outputs which I have arranged as one 6channel bal out and 1 stereo s.e. out. And I am not even using all the connectors!

So, bottom line: it's a stereo preamp, it's a mch preamp, it's Superman.

Kal

I just went to their website and couldn't find anything on the Pre6. Is it discontinued?

[Kal Rubinson]

I just went to their website and couldn't find anything on the Pre6. Is it discontinued?

Possibly. I notice the Pre/Pro is gone, too. It is part of BC's backing off from the MCH business (except for players) but I have been assured that this is temporary until the HD disc clouds clear.

Kal

[jonathanb3478]

I got my Sony ES TA-P9000ES brand new for $500 just as it was becomming unavailable because it was discontinued. It was a Stereophile "Class A" m-ch component, back when there were 3 items listed in that section of the guide.

It is the preamp I use in my bedroom m-ch audio system. I have a Sony ES SCD-C555ES (also Stereophile "Class A" rated 'till it was discontinued) for SACD-Multi and CD sources. My DVD-A source is a Pioneer unit that also plays SACD-Multi (a "hot spare", if you will). I have no other source connected to that system. I do have a second one of those Pioneer units in the livingroom hooked up to the HT system, for those times when my bedroom is too messy for a good listening session (why clean it when I can go to the living room, lol).

I love surround music, either with ambience in the back channels, or as a "studio spectacle" like Linkin Park's Reanimation (love that one!).