stereo processor vs HT processos for 2-ch stereo

[grit]

Pembroke replied to this post (see his quote below), and got me to thinking... here's the result:

I love my Rotel gear, and it fits my present budget. When I got my system, I was expecting to watch movies mostly. Because of the quality of my equipment, I now listen to 2-ch music more and have been making upgrades to target that idea. Even so, I've been building my system toward the idea that my home theater and music systems would be the same.

I've started to suspect what I think Pembroke saying: Stereo and home theater systems might be better off independent of each other for various reasons (different pre-processors, tibre matching of 2-ch stereo spearks vs 5.1 HT speakers, cheaper to build a 2-ch CD-based system than a 5.1-ch based multi-input system, etc.).

The following quote is what got my attention: ***Good hifi is not possible with digital preamps, and processing chips in todays processors are basically the same - consequently any reasonable processor will do the job.***

I'm presently thinking Classe and Krell in the long run for my next major upgrade, but that'll be at least 5 years from now. In the meantime, I'm going to work with my current budget.

So here's my question - What (if any) sound quality difference would I notice in 2-ch stereo (analog bypass) going from a Rotel RSP-1068 to a Rotel RC-1070? And, what about other (more expensive) processors (Classe, Krell)? Does buying more expensive equipment allow you to have better integration of a digital processor and analog processeor?

You have a really great system, I have the 1098 and retired a Bryston BP25 preamp - a big mistake. I have been extremely dissapointed with the analog performance of the 1098, and have experimented using the 1098 as a DTS/Dolby processor with a good analog multi-channel preamp - I've used the Bel Canto Pre6 and the McCormack MAP-1. Both give much better hifi performance, in comparison the analog bypass of the 1098 is mediocre. I would buy a second hand Bel Canto Pre6 or MAP-1 and the $2000 Arcam processor.
If you really want to get a great sound then try the Modwright preamp with a home theatre bypass mode, this is my latest configuration (along with the Modwright Sony 999ES) and its hifi heaven! I'm still using the 1098 as the processor, which it does reasonably well.

If you talk to Ayre Acoustics, or Bel Canto, they will give the same advice. Good hifi is not possible with digital preamps, and processing chips in todays processors are basically the same - consequently any reasonable processor will do the job.

I look forward to the follow up responses from the Rotel die hards with cloth ears!

[Sim reality]

I am not a expert but the general rule of thumb for HiFi equipment is the less things in between the source and your ear the better the sound will be.

I do believe there are differences between processors, otherwise we might as well all just hook up media PCs to our systems and run all our hifi gear out of that because there is far more processing power available there.

That said, there is a law of diminishing returns on the cost of a processor given the time/money put in grows exponentially as quality goes up (a lot of things have to be rejected to a tolerance from 0.01% to 0.001% and the amount of time spend tweaking to take advantage of that increases as your tests have to get more elaborate).

As for the quote: ***Good hifi is not possible with digital preamps, and processing chips in todays processors are basically the same - consequently any reasonable processor will do the job.***

I am not convinced that an analogue preamp could technically do a better job. Any deviced in which it only function is manupulate signal will degrade the signal and from a design perspective it's easier to tune a digital preamp then an analogue one (given an equal price point).

[miner]

If interested, I may soon have my Rotel RC-1070 pre and RB-1070 amp up for sale. Upgraditis - need more power.

[soundhound]

You won't hear much difference between the RSP-1068 and RC-1070. I had the RC-1070 with an RSX-1055 b-4 going the RSP-1068 route, for ease of use. Best of 2 channel, and surround, in 1 pre. Money doesn't negate "better" sound quality. There are pieces that will sound much different than the Rotel. A Jolida Jd100 cd player (tubed), can be had for under 1K new, and will make your'e cd's sound like they never have. There are a few 2 channel pre's w/ ht pass through, which gives optimimum 2 channel, and complete integration with your'e current processor. I currently run a VTL tubed pre w/ pass through, and integrated it into my system to keep the RSP-1068 for the ocassional video side, dtv, dvd, etc....

[pembroke]

My original post was to provoke and help members learn from my mistakes.
My original stereo setup was:
Sony XA777ES
N803's
Bryston BP25
Bryston 4BSST

This system gave me a sound I was happy with.
To expand this to a 5.1 HT system I added the following:
Sony DVD999ES
Rotel 1095
Rotel 1098
B&W Center speaker and an old pair of CDM9NT's
SVS 1000 Watt subwoofer

I then went into terminal depression as my old CD's sounded harsh and digital. I added the Musical Fidelity DAC/Tube Buffer/PSU trio - they made an improvement. Also demoed the McCormack MAP-1, Ayre Preamp, BelCanto Pre6 and Esoteric DVD player. Using the 1098 as the digital processor, and the analog preamps (either as 6 channel preamps or bypass mode with the Ayre) made a huge improvement. At the same time I did talk directly to both Ayre and Bel Canto, who confirmed my findings on degradation of 2 channel performance when using digital processors.
Eventually I bought the Modwright Sony 999ES, compared it A/B with the Esoteric, and the sound was amazing - huge 3D soundstage and very musical - the Esoteric was maybe a little more detailed but dry and less musical. I then bought the Modwright LineStage preamp - this has a HT bypass mode which allows the 1098 to function as the digital processor and multichannel preamp - which takes my system to a new level of enjoyment.

My depression has gone, I have a great HT system and enjoy listening to CD's again - its been an expensive and long process. My local dealer has been helpful, they have gone down the Classe route as a one supplier simplified system that satisfies 99.99% - I'm the difficult 0.01%.

I know that RebelMan has similar tastes, and we have had dialogue on amps in the past. My latest amp is the Anthem Statement P5, probably the weakest link in the chain, but coupled with the Modwright source and LineStage preamp it sounds smooth and powerful.

I took the plunge with the boutique modification route, and glad I did. I bought a new modded Sony DVD999ES from Dan Wright for 1/3rd the cost of of the Esoteric and its incredible - I would encourage anyone who wants great CD sound, SACD and DVD performance to give it a try. I'm having so much fun listening to music again - which is what its all about.

[bigburner]

Stereo and home theater systems might be better off independent of each other

I now believe that the most intense home music experience you can have is music DVD's. The sound quality on DVD's is usually excellent. You get to see bands in concert that you may never get to see live.

In summary, when you put music and video together, 1 + 1 = 3.

For a music lover an investment in HT therefore makes good sense if the HT system is geared towards music.

[grit]

I now believe that the most intense home music experience you can have is music DVD's. The sound quality on DVD's is usually excellent. You get to see bands in concert that you may never get to see live.

In summary, when you put music and video together, 1 + 1 = 3.

For a music lover an investment in HT therefore makes good sense if the HT system is geared towards music.

This is also something I've considered too. Somewhere, there's a line for each of us where cost vs performance is at it's maximum, and I know no one else can make that decission for me. What I'm hoping to find out is what differences I can expect to find by reading about other people's experiences. I'd LOVE to just spend a week "test driving" stuff at the store where I purchace my equipment, but I just don't have the time. So, when I DO go in, I want to be as prepared as possible.

Short version (too late) : I want to know if other people have any experience comparing dedicated 2-ch vs 5.1 ch processors, and what differences (if any) they found.

[pembroke]

Grit
I agree with BigBurner, the optimum experience is a music DVD with a multi-channel sound track. With your senses having both sound and vision you can afford to be less critical with sound quality - and this is why I'm more than happy with the 1098 as my DTS/DD decoder. With 2Ch your senses are focused only on the sound, and this is why my too critical ear was concentrated on the deficiencies of the 1098 in analog bypass - those that are happy with it are lucky.
My local dealer has changed his business model to HT installation, and after 12 months of trials has gone with Classe as a 'one stop' solution for 2CH and multi-channel. It's not cheap - but you might want to try an audition.
Alternatively try the Bel Canto Pre6 or the McCormack MAP-1 as multi-channel preamps. Try Audigon for a good deal on the MAP, or call Matt Cramer at Bel Canto.

[AB11]

I have a Modwright SWL pre and I have to say it is one fine preamp.
A Jolida stage 2 CDP coupled to it through a 1090 amp and I am way happy.
I use a Denon 3805 as my HT prepro and use the HT bypass in the Modwright to do the multi channel thing with a 1095 for the surrounds, center and backs.
I also have a Denon 3910 DVD and SACD or the DVD-A in stereo through the Modwright is particularly awesome.

My SWL has been upgraded with a DACT attenuator and one big, gnarly Black Gate Wkz in the PS. I cannot say enough good things about Dan and his preamp. Heck, I have been thinking of letting him upgrade the 3910, well, just because.

[tonych31]

For me, I always enjoyed sacd or dvd-audio music. It is heaps better than cd.
I got a cyrus cd6 player hooked through my rotel gear, but still I always get my enjoyment when listening to sacd through my denon 2200 dvd player.
If it is a normal cd, a normal hifi amp with a dedicated cd player is the best combination. So I am planning to setup another hifi system just for cd.

[comeup]

I think the Rotel RA 02/01 sounds better than most Ht preamps in stereo. I do think that stereo hifi systems sound better at least a quality one. I have a Lexicon DC-1 controller that everyone raved about on how good it sounds in stereo, but my RC 1070/RB 1080 sounds way more open and natural. The Lexicon was a 5000$ piece.