Amp For Pardigm 100 V3

[FENDEBENDER]

Looking for an amp of at least 200 watts for a 2 channel setup. I have a 56txi
pioneer that will be driving the fronts and suuround speakers. I tried the anthem mca 50 and though it was a bit dry for me and bass seemed tight but not very deep so i was wondering what other amps might work well with these speakers. Im also think about trying out the klipsch rf 7's and thought on these speakers.

[Taito]

Have a look at the rotel RB-1080. 200wpc into 8 ohms. A great value amp for the price. www.rotel.com

-Ben

[Aussie Geoff]

Fenderbender,

The Klipsch RF-7 and Rotel make a very strong combination if you like the very dymanic Klipsch sound. Try Club Rotel we have many members with this combo and loving it...

Re the Paradigm, the Rotel 1080 will also be good, but I'd be tempted with a newer digital amp (like the Nufore Ref 9) or the Rotel 1090 or the Parsound A21 (or money being not an issue) the Krell 2250... All of these will drive out a deeper more dymanic bass for the Paradigm's if you have the time to try them...

Too many options - Paradigm with (play safe) the Krell 2250 or (going a little leading edge) the Nuforce Ref 9...

Geoff

[FENDEBENDER]

Right now i have the 100's in front the cc 470 center and studio 20 v3 surround and the pw 2200 sub, the pioneer is driving the fronts and center and i have a yamaha receiver driving the backs. At this point when listen to 5 channel such as dts concert or movies i'm 100 per cent satisified :lol: with this set up but with 2 channel i'm 85 to 90 :E. My system is in my main living area which is 27 x 19 x 9 and the back opens up to a 15 x 16 x 9 kitchen dinning room area and the entry way is on the other side.... you get my point i'm trying to fill a big area and what i experience listen to 2 channel music is a lack of rock concert loudness ( paradigm 88db) i sit at about 14' back from the front of the speakers if i move up to about 10 ft the detail and level is acceptable but its a little ackward.

My question is

1. Will the 200 watt rotel 1080 help fill this area if not any thoughts.

2. If i decide to try the klispch will it fill this area and meet that rock concert
level. thinking of rf 7

3. My goal would be to get a 2 or 5 channel amp (1095) that i could try with the existing system and if it doesn't correct the 2 channel problem then try out the klipsch with the same amp so the amp should mate to both systems.

4 Any one had experience with these two system.

5 By the way i've been lurking around here for a whiel and decided to join thanks for any help

PS i don't always listen at these levels but when i have the need i want the speed if you know what i mean.(thats the 10 percent i missing) Its what happens when your'e and old rock guy

[PewterTA]

I'd recommend the 1095, I think it's a great amp, but also you can get something like the NuForce Ref9 digital amp and Cinnenova Grande amp which is HUGE and has more power than most sane people need. That will give you ~330 to all 5 speakers... Woo Hoo!

I have the 1095 (got a great deal all around for all of my equipment) and I have to say no once has it let me down with any "lack of power." So I definitely would easily recommend the 1080 or 1095 for you. 200 watts is pretty darn good. For stereo listening (and this is just my personal preference) I lik ethe 1095 over the 1080 for the simple reason is the sound stage. The 1095 has a much more defined sound stage and images differently than the 1080. The 1080 gives you a definite stereo effect, where the vocals come out the speakers, the 1095 gives you a phantom center channel feel, where the singer is right there in front of you. I've caught myself a couple times walking up the center channel just to make sure I didn't have it a PLII/NEO type mode and didn't realize it. Though since I play everything in bypass mode with CDs I'm good.

It just depends on what you want your music to sound like more. I also read somewhere from someone that they thought in an exclusive 2 channel mode the 1095 would put out a few more watts than the 1080...not sure if that's true or not, but would make sense since none of the power supply to the center/rear channels on the amp would be "doing anything."

[thyname]

Are you going to have the Klipsch AND the Paradigm 100 v3? If yes, and you have the money to have both sets of floorstanders, I know many people who have a different setup for HT and Stereo. If you decide to go that route, I would strongly suggest Rotel RB-1080 power amp, and Rotel RC-1070 2 channel preamp, the system that I have. You will be in heaven for 2 channel music!! My room is 23X20X8 and my system totally fills it.

[ajpoe]

Are you keeping the 100s since you're asking about Klipsch? Also, do you use the sub with 2 channel listening? If you use your sub, you may want to check out the Studio 60s or 40s or the Signature S2s and return the 100s. You get extra bottom end with the 100s that you won't need if using a sub and you'd be able to drive the smaller speakers more efficiently.

[FENDEBENDER]

Thanks guy this is good info:

I do have a sub but the problem seems to be that ths speakers can't fill the room or the sound stage collaspe a liitle bit too much before it gets to my position.

If i try the klispch rf 7 and like them better 8O i will sell the paradigm system and replace with klipsch all the way around except maybe for the sub. Of course then i'll have to know what to use for surround to make it all work.

For all of the paradigm speaker guys i would like to say that they image perfectly :T (when i'm slightly closer say 10 ft) there detail is excellent and
just have a beafufiul sound to them thats why i'd like to make it work.

Before i never had the room and i got some sound reinforcement from the room itself. My present area is almost like having them outdoors where the image detail go soft the farther back you are, anyone else had a similiar problem. (PS be careful what you wish for) :lol:

Thansk again in advance for your help ;x(

Love the smilies

Great forum

[gd]

My system is in my main living area which is 27 x 19 x 9 and the back opens up to a 15 x 16 x 9 kitchen dinning room area and the entry way is on the other side.... you get my point i'm trying to fill a big area and what i experience listen to 2 channel music is a lack of rock concert loudness ( paradigm 88db) i sit at about 14' back from the front of the speakers if i move up to about 10 ft the detail and level is acceptable but its a little ackward.

I think you might already know what your biggest issue is... you've got a large, difficult room.

You might want to investigate room treatments and/or speaker repositioning before simply buying new gear.

Or better and cheaper yet, re-visit your seating arrangement, as that has proven to make a positive difference.

Whenever possible, furnish your room to accommodate the audio system, and not the other way around.

Unless, of course, you're married...

[FENDEBENDER]

How did you guess :lol: WAF

I just spent another hour in there and the seating arrangement is in a L type
arrangement and i move one of the L side out and it did help but i believe more efficent speakers are needed, maybe the rf7 but as i said i love the sound of the paradigms detail, image soundstage etc. How do the rf7 compare and i'm thinking about a a21 i just don't know if i'd like the color everything else is black. ;b>

[PewterTA]

There's a girl on here named Kathy_Mason (I believe) she has the RF7s and she said it took the Rotel RB-1090 to really get them the way she liked them. She said the extra power was really needed to drive the bass drivers on those speakers. That's if I remember what she said correctly, so don't quote me on that. You might want to message her as she's really knowledgeable about the RF7s.

If I do recall they imaged very well for her and she loves them.

[FENDEBENDER]

Going to listen to the rf 7's this morning and see what i think. Of course i;ll still have an amp problem. I would hope the higher dB spl level would help fill the room with good sound not just loud. :B

[raider]

Might i suggest The Anthem P2 as this amp has all the power you will ever need.
As far as your bass response is concerned with the MCA 50 the P2 has a very controlled sounding bass with plenty of punch!

[aud19]

I'd say try an amp first before the speakers, especially considering you already like the sound of the 100's. They may just need more power to fill the bigger room. Besides Klipsh speakers while more efficient also tend to "beam" more which won't really fill the room with sound.

The suggestion for possible room treatment is also a good thing to investigate :T

[FENDEBENDER]

I went to my local Ultimateelectonic store to listen to the klipsch rf 7 and they sounded ok but not what i was expecting. Not for sure how correct the room is and they were using receivers only can't remember which one so i'm debating if i should give it a try or not they do have a money back guarantee and i guess it would be the only way to tell. Any thoughts how to make the rf 7 sound there best and my last question how much will a great amp improve a speaker compared to a high end receiver like my pioneer elite 56 txi system. Improve 5 per cent 10 or more ?

Thanks

[Kens1]

I have the Rotel 1056 reciever that replaced a Kenwood soveriegn. The reciever alone made a big difference in the sound of my speakers. I then began to grave more so I started to audition different speakers but nothing really made want to take them home, at least not for what I was willing to spend. My dealer then recommended the rotel 1080 amp to see if I would notice what the extra power did for my speakers.
I ended up buying the 1080. I wouldn't want to say it was night and day but it was very noticeable as soon as I hooked it up and I am now completely satisfied - for now.
You already have some very nice speakers why not see what the full potential is? I think you will be surprised at what a seperate amp will do for them.

[aud19]

I'd say try an amp first before the speakers, especially considering you already like the sound of the 100's. They may just need more power to fill the bigger room. Besides Klipsh speakers while more efficient also tend to "beam" more which won't really fill the room with sound.

The suggestion for possible room treatment is also a good thing to investigate :T

As I said, try a good, powerful amp :W :yesnod:

I doubt your Pioneer is giving those big 100's anywhere near what they need for power, ESPECIALLY in that large room.

[FENDEBENDER]

Thansk guys here's where im at now.

I did try the anthem mca 50 amp and with the setting very high it just didn't
move out into the room like i wanted and i really thought the amp had bass punch but lack the lower end.

Amyway i have purchase a pair of rf 7's today and listen to them for about 2 hour tonight and they started very harsh and seemed to have problems on complex passage 8O but by the end of the listen session they seem to be coming into there own sort of speak and the volume problem i was having in a big room has for sure being took care of. I read here tonight they need 4 to 6 hours of break in at least and some say a week or more. (40 hours)
Has anyone else confirmed this with the klipsch... anyway ill be experiment with my different receivers. I started out passive bi amping with a yamaha low end and the 56 txi Elite Pioneer on the high end but after about 20 mins it was to harsh so i just hooked up the (old) yamaha because it is more layed back and that seemed to help and after another hour even better.

Decision decision :B :B

[aud19]

Have you tried adjusting the positioning of your 100's too? You say the sound doesn't come out in to the room enough... Maybe you have them toed in too much? Or too close/too far from walls. I still don't think the Klipsch's are going to "fill" your room for you. You might get better sound in one area because of their directionality but everywhere else will suffer.

I still say, bigger amp, positioning and possibly room treatment will be your best options. There's really nothing wrong with 100's, they're very nice speakers and they should be able to work in your room as well or better than the Klipsch's. I think you're just wasting time and money there unless you were already wanting to upgrade....? In that case though I still say you look upwards more as the Klipsch's would be more of a lateral move

[FENDEBENDER]

Rf7 Rotel

Well i have been changeing out receivers and doing passive bi ampings on the rf 7 klipsch and they remain to harsh, congested with lack of bass, althought they fill the room nicely i guess my question is will the 1080 rotel actually make that big of a differrence in the high end as far as smoothing it out, increase the bass level and adding some more mid range it seem to lack a little there also.
I'm hoping that more break in time will help plus i have been playing with speaker placement with in reason.

Thanks

[DrJRapp]

Fenderbender

I have the RF7s powered by an RB1080 in a similarly large room. Generally speaking the RF7s are not harsh, however they will reveal the worst in both your underlying electronics AND your listening room. The harshness you currently hear is probably originating in your receiver(s). RF 7s deserve, (and need) cleaner power at higher current than most receivers can generate. Stock RF7s have a slight ringing (at 3K hz and very high SPL) that can be fixed with a simple X-over modification without voiding the warrantee. With these mods, the 1080 and an RSP 1098 running 2 channel bypass for a Shanling T100 tube output CD player, I get room filling bass,without the help of a sub, warm midrange detail and a smooth clear detailed top end in a room measuring 20x20x11.5 connected to a 16x18x11.5 room at the rear all this is also open to the rest of the house.

[bigburner]

FENDEBENDER, like you I've got a fairly large listening room - 27' x 15' x 10'. I originally ran a pair of B&W 3-way floorstanders (CDM9NT) with an RB-1080 amp. It was a good sound, but not enough, because like you I enjoy concert level volume at times. So I added a sub (B&W ASW750). That was a big improvement, but still not enough, because the sound still didn't FILL the room. So I incorporated my old Harman Kardon amp and B&W speakers into the system for those occasions when I want the full concert experience. Both amps are connected to my Rotel pre-amp (I call it 4.1 which is technically wrong but sounds kinda interesting). The main point is that it really works well because it fills the room with sound - which is what a concert is all about - and it also puts my old gear to good use instead of sitting in a cupboard - which eliminates any guilt from upgrading!

[FENDEBENDER]

Great info:

DrJrapp I was wondering in steps how much improvement i could expect with each step.

Example
Add 1080

Add rotel pre amp.. i would like to use my 56 txi for a while if i could because if i sell it i'll have to do the 1095 so i'll have an option for 5.1 for sacd and dts sources and this may not work a good as the 1080 for music.

Add crossover mod.. is this just the resistor or the whole Dean mod?

Add better cd player and does it need to be the tube version or similiar i presently use a 400 disk sony player. Anyone have experience with these?

Some of the things i do like is the sound stage it seems to be right in front of me for leads guitar, voices etc except when the music calls for it to the side i have never had that good of a sound stage.

I could spend another 2k to get it right 8O and more later once i see its going to be a keeper, so with that in mind what would be everyones suggestion. Best bang for the bucks.

[PewterTA]

I would personally go for the RB-1090 over the 1080 if you are going Rotel. I've heard the 1080 doesn't have the punch needed to get the really good bass from the RF7s. The 1090 does a 10x better job. It also fully controls the speaker and there is no harshness to the amp, as Kathy Mason has said, it's a perfect match.

If you don't want to put the money out for that. I think the 1095 is better than the 1080, you can do a biamp with the 1095 if you want, or just leave it set up for 5channels. If you only use 2 channels off of it, it will actually output more power to the 2 channels (talking an extra 10watts roughly, but it's still something). The imaging of the 1095 is much better than the 1080 I think where it has a real definite stereo sound to it....

The Sony CD player you have isn't bad, it's just not good either... ha ha ha. You should look around for some other CDs players (maybe something like Shanling T100 or even the Rotel RCD-1072) and it will change the whole presentation of your system.

[MattCXII]

Im seriously considering the 100's as an upgrade for my monitor 7's but need some amp questions answered too. Hope no one minds me piggybacking on this topic but I figured it was most appropriate.

I currently have a Bryston 3B ST (120 WPC) that will be used to power the 100's. Is that enough power for these speakers? I have heard them paired with a 4B SST but that's a totally different beast. Looking for those with experience in pairing Bryston with Paradigm. I love my 3B ST and I hope it will drive the speakers well. My room is approx. 16 feet long by 11 feet wide.

Thanks!

[FENDEBENDER]

I think you would be fine with that amp. I think i would be total happy with the Pardigm 100 v3 if my room were slighly smaller and didn't open up into another room just as big.

[FENDEBENDER]

Thanks for all the help so far guys

I'm guessing i'll go with a rotel just can't decide on the 1080 or 1095 version.
The speaker is getting better in other area's as it breaks in, if i could just tame it down some.


I don;t want to give up and am willing to spend anther 2 k in equiment upgrades but i really don't want to have to go to tubes yet (unless i can use my fender reverb guitar amp ) :B although if i could get the two channel to bring tears to my eyes or goose bumps i might re consider. 8O

[PewterTA]

Well do you have any plans on going to surround later? The 1095 might meet your need better then... Plus until then you can psuedo biamp your mains with 4 out of the 5 channels on the 1095. I will warn you though doing this, make sure the 1095 has a lot of space as it will generate a good amount of heat doing this...

[FENDEBENDER]

Well i just ordered a Rotel 1095 for the following reason. 8O

1. It will allow me to purchase a pre amp only later maybe the 1098 because i can use the 5 channel for amplifications.

2. Should match up good the the rf 7 to get the a chance to show what they can do.

3. If the rf 7 don't work out it will be a real good match with the pardigm 100v v3 and may even give me that bigger sound stage.

It should be here late friday if not Monday.

ps bought used from a dealer out of town. I guess this want have a warranty?

Im hoping to not have any problems from.