Don't walk out of the store with a New-in-box Rotel amp UNLESS....

[SQconstable]

Don't leave the store without hearing the Rotel amp you buy unless you have hooked it up to speakers and evaluated the noisefloor in a quiet environment. Folks, I have come to realize that possibly all of the new RSX-1067's (and possibly other amps too since people report same issues) coming from Rotel (in Boston, MA, USA at least) have buzzing in the output at any volume level other than MIN/Mute. Rotel is not going to admit to this mistake in their design - it either has poor shielding or somehow generates its own noise - I believe it to be self-noise since it will buzz even on a line conditioner.

After posting here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=132070

.. I've had 3 people email me with similar experiences (new replacement also buzzes). This is absurd. I truly felt this issue needed its own thread because it's not only problematic with the 1067. Rotel obviously has a loud environment for their repair room, which prevents them from being able to make good judgement on noise from these units. I can hear it loud and clear on my end, and in a normal store selling them.

I'm now needing to think about a replacement alternative since any new unit they send my store is apparently going to buzz thru the speakers. Do you have any suggestions? I know this is a Rotel forum and many here could be biased :roll: but I'm open to price, brand, and all that... I do need full bass management control (as well as setting crossover freq's for each channel), and I really benefit from Distance settings on the subwoofer since it doubles as a useful phase-adjust!

[KAP]

Don't walk out of the store with a New-in-box Rotel amp UNLESS....

This thread could get ugly........we'll see. I've mentioned in various threads that my 1067 has a noticeable buzz with zero volume. I've also mentioned that in my case the buzz is not audible at virtually any listening level.

I have not fiddled with the cables to eliminate ground loop and other issues. If indeed the buzz is inherent in the 1067, I think Rotel has some explaining to do. I don't think a $2,000 receiver should buzz at all.

I doubt that their manufacturing plant is "loud", that wouldn't make much sense for manufacturing high end audio equipment which would seem to require precise audio measurements.

I'm sticking with my 1067, but I feel your pain. If you have more money to spend perhaps you can look into a B&K or the Lexicon RV-8.

[SQconstable]

I was just reading about similar buzzing in Rotel's other products from a post back in 2003: http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=1502

This is interesting - the problem has been around for years, not just recently! Either way, Rotel needs to stop sending out new units with old problems..

Your buzzing may not be as loud as mine - all 5 studio monitors in my HT are 4 ohm which could explain why it's plaguing me more than those with only 8 ohm speakers. My room is about 16' x 12' and the buzzing is loud enough to distract during silent to near-silent audio passages in movies or SACD/CD. "Virtually any listening level" means music/audio is masking the buzzing, however, the stuff I listen to is quite dynamic, especially movies, so the buzz just keeps coming through more frequently.

I'm guessing their repair facilities are separate from their manufacturing plant, yet they sent out a second new unit from the same place I believe.

There is only ONE thing I didn't try, but I highly doubt it will correct this inherent buzzing - although the plug for the 1067 is already 2-prong, perhaps putting on a cheater plug with identical prong sizes would allow a reversed polarity. It's too late for me to test that though, as I've already gone through 2 units, both new, both with same problem. Now I'm waiting for the store to call me back and let me know what Rotel has decided to do for me. This sucks to say the least - plus I'm still paying on the credit account for which I have no amp for more than a month now still. Hopefully that wont go on for much longer.

My other thought was that the environments in which the units were diagnosed on my end have different "power" than Boston, MA, which is where the repairs take place. For repairmen to say they can't duplicate the problem, to me, means something is different in their office in regards to power compared to The Home Theater Store and my home. But that still doesn't make sense - you're right.. why the heck are we paying $2200 for this unit if it doesn't have discrete output?

I'll check out the Lexicon and B&K. Thanks!

[PewterTA]

Wow that really is terrible to hear I feel for you guys. I've had no problems at all with any of my Rotel equipment... Maybe I'm lucky.

Have you guys all tried just hooking up the main speakers with nothing else attached to the unit, does it still buzz? Is there anything else on the power line, like a dimmed light or anything, that could be introducing noise into the line? Just trying to think of stuff. Also have you tried grounding the unit, take a wire and hook it up to the chassis of the 1067 and something that's grounded, does that kill the buzz?

[KAP]

If the Rotel is buzzing that much, obviously you need to go in a different direction. It is a rather odd and annoying sound. When I turn the unit on, that buzzing is quite loud until the source material begins to play. If I was forced to stay in that room for an hour with no audio and the Rotel buzzing..........I'd shoot myself!!!

I originally ordered a B&K receiver but lost $20,000 by ordering from a fraudulent internet audio dealer. Oh well, that is old news. The B&K's seem to get very good reviews and won't break the bank like the Lexicon would.

[KAP]

PewterTA,

I haven't tried anything to fix the buzz. All my equipment was professionally installed and I don't know a heck of a lot about what is going on behind everything......other than the fact that I had to unconnect and reconnect the Rotel when I got a replacement unit due to the well known "crackling" issue.

I will try your suggestions and see what happens.

[SQconstable]

This type of buzzing is present with NOTHING connected other than speakers. These are just simply defective units.

I didn't try grounding from a ground socket to the chassis, so that's gotta be the only other thing that I could have tried. Maybe I should have tried that, but something tells me it wouldn't have worked. There's nothing in the manual for this and at the moments of frustration, my engineering degree totally missed my brain.

I did think of the cheater plug.. the funny thing is that I read about other Rotel units buzzing and how it can be eliminated by using the cheater. So I immediately went to Home Depot and bought one. Then I felt dumb when I pulled the Rotel's 2-prong cable from the outlet. That now makes me feel dumber that I didn't think about trying to ground the chassis to a true ground. UGH. I'd have been ok doing that. But then, there has to be some reason Rotel didn't provide a 3-prong solution in the first place, right?

[SQconstable]

Is there anything else on the power line, like a dimmed light or anything, that could be introducing noise into the line? Just trying to think of stuff. Also have you tried grounding the unit, take a wire and hook it up to the chassis of the 1067 and something that's grounded, does that kill the buzz?

We don't have any dimmer lights in our home. The AC/heater, fridge, and basically everything can be off in the house and the buzzing is constant. Nothing affects it, not even added volume on the knob. I've never heard it pop in and out or change slightly either. It's like there's some gate always open and it's the sound of a transformer creating EMI onto unbalanced preamp circuitry.

To make matters worse, I'm out in the country where it's almost dead quiet
I knew I shoulda saved up for something more expensive.

[gd]

I sympathize with your situation.

But you won't get a 1067 from anybody for $1K unless it's been sawed in half.

However, I'm sure any demo unit should be sold 'as new'... with whatever discount... and a full-term warranty, not a 3.5-yr partial.

I think the demo would not be a bad way to go at all... as long as it comes at an attractive price (esp one that addresses your situation)... and as long as you can return it within a month or so with no strings.

If any unit was to exhibit problems, it would most likely do so early on... a working $2k receiver should last 10 yrs easy.

As a quick aside, Rotel has recently employed a stepped-up QC standard, which entails extra testing, and special green labels for products which pass... you might ask your dealer if the 1067s are coming from this batch (should be by now)... info here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ighlight=green

Your biggest advantage now is that the dealer has replicated and acknowledged the problem... so keep the dialogue going... not all Rotel dealers are created equal -- you'd be surprised how uninformed some of them can be.

If you find yourself stalled on this, you might PM Rotel Club moderator Kevin D to see if he can hook you up with a Rotel contact.

Good luck.

[SQconstable]

On my first unit, Rotel's repair crew dismissed the buzzing problem and said they couldn't duplicate the problem which they responded by sending out another unit (brand spankin' new) which buzzed at the Home Theater Store. Whether they employ QC or QA at the sales level or repair level, the flaws show in both areas. I bought the first amp in February of 2005 which may before they announced their new aforementioned standard. However, for them to send out a buzzing unit in response to the same problem is highly unacceptable. They're wasting my time (ok, and money in many aspects but I don't want to go there).

I guess I could call the manager at the Store and ask him if they're sure they're getting good batches.

I arrived to the Store to pick that "repair" up (which still was going to be a "buzzer" btw) it was in a BLK model box instead of the Silver, which caused confusion to us all, and the most striking thing was that it wasn't double-boxed! That thing could've been dropped once and that's all that would've been needed to make something go wrong and cause it to not turn on.

[SQconstable]

Ok check this out...


I called the manager at Home Theater Store and told him about the green stickers and he went in the back to look at the Rotel inventory and he said the only ones with that green sticker are the RSX-1056. This could mean that the QA issue was only in a response to the 1056 specifically since the stickers aren't on any other Rotel products. Or.. that means that the Store at my location simply doesn't get fully tested product?

[Kevin D]

Man.. making me work today. Few issues before I address your problem.

1) We don't allow cursing, *** out cursing, implied cursing, derogatory remarks, etc.. If you can't have a conversation without doing that, please don't post.

2) Please try and stay on topic. In addition, our threads are not designed to have ongoing personal conversations, we have PM's for that.

3) Rotel does follow this forum and are always willing to help people out. To come here and make posts blasting Rotel and their procedures is not going to get you anywhere.

Now, as far as your issues and the one's you have found from others. Yes, Rotel's products have had issues buzzing in certain situations and certain combinations. Could the new batches of 1067's coming out have a new issue? Sure. Will it buzz while it's at Rotel? Maybe not. There are so many different possibilities that dismissing Rotel as ignoring your problem and just sending a new unit out is not fair. If the unit came in with a buzzing problem and they could not recreate it what would you like them to do? If you were not there when they tested it you cannot say that it buzzed and they ignored it.

I try to be as unbiased as I can but the percentages of it can't lie. If you were to take everyone on the forum that has ever had a problem with buzzing that was not fixed by the normal methods you will probably find that fewer then 10% of Rotel owning members have an issue. Now 10% of products would be pretty bad if forum members here was proportionate to all Rotel owners. In reality you have two types of members: enthusiasts and people with issues. A high percentage of Rotel owners with problems come here. So our membership is skewed towards people with issues and less then 10% of those have a buzzing problem.

So with that, you have to understand that you are having issues, others are having issues, but in the grand scheme of things this is a very, very small percentage of owners. I've had $200-$10000 receivers/preamps have buzz, hiss, crackle in certain homes while other brands don't. The key here is manufacturers have a really tough time creating a product that will operate flawlessly in every environment and every system. If Rotel does not have a current product that will work to your liking, move to another brand.

Again, I'm not saying you don't have an issue and I'm not saying you can't discuss the issue. It's when you can't do it within the set rules of our forum that I have an issue.

Thanks,

Kevin D.

[gd]

As I understand it, the improved QC checks at Rotel extend across all products.

Maybe 1067s don't move as fast as the 1056s ($$$), and your retailer can't readily access them -- or worse, won't go out of their way to access them.

Frankly, everything you've written so far suggests your retailer is less than enthusiastic to have your business... Rotel products certainly have the occasional defect, but no more than any other make... and they do seem to pay some attention to this forum, even if no rep checks in personally... I'll say it again -- Rotel dealers vary in level of service... it's possible you'll have to lean on these guys some to get action (or have Kevin assist)... and even then, it might be all too much trouble in any event, and no one here would blame you if you considered another make.

Something like this happens to all of us sooner or later... from the entry-level barebones receivers to the exotic boutique separates... it's certainly happened to me (though not with a Rotel).

I think most agree that the Rotel sound justifies the asking price... so I still think it's worth at least auditioning the demo at home.

Sometimes ya get lucky.

[CLUZO]

Hi !

I haven't took any decision yet, about my amp choice's, but what i'm seeing now still make me stay on my position. ROTEL should take care of our comments, it would be for us more reassuring.

I'm totally agree with SQCONSTABLE, about the fact of having BUZZ problems with an amp of this range, It's Definitively Innaceptable.

CLUZO

[SQconstable]

Kevin, do you work for Rotel? If so, I was totally oblivious to that and should have researched more. I didn't exactly come here solely for assistance; I'm only justifyably posing a user's experiences (me) with some faulty gear. I've tried everything and I want people to know that my experience and opinion is very worthy - I am highly knowledgeable in electrical engineering, particularly in amplifiers. As my topic explains, "Don't walk out of the store with a New-in-box Rotel amp UNLESS" you've listened to it on the spot - and that's the bottom line. If I didn't make such a big deal about this, wouldn't it be unfair to visitors and other members searching this forum for similar issues to possibly miss this? This is quite important stuff - many people would be devastated to have high hopes for something, bring it home, open the box, and find something that could've been prevented from learning from my experience. I've clearly stated the problem and given extreme detail on the issue - I would like to add that past postings of similar issues were not detailed enough to help some people decipher what exactly was causing X problem.

As for me knowing that Rotel follows this forum, I'd be amazed. There aren't too many users in Club Rotel as I'd expect. I really do hope someone from Rotel reads this because I'm not going to be lazy on this one and be taken again.

Ok.. so maybe I am in that "less than 10%" with problems. So I need to speak up. How else is a problem going to be made public? By doing what the majority of that group do - being lazy and not getting down to the bottom of it? If I didn't go in depth on this one, I'd be giving up! I'm not accusing you of anything, but posting one's problems specific to a product of a Forum section (Club Rotel) is rightfully entitled to an in-depth gripe session when a problem this ridiculous arises. I'm sure we would all agree that a company based on sound quality needs a wake-up call when something adverse as the problem I was having conflicts with the aim of the company. I would not want anyone to go through what I am, so I'm here telling it like it is, completely unfabricated. If I appear like I'm cursing, I apologize and will never do it again.

Lastly, Rotel, please respond to my emails. Your evasiveness in this matter has infuriated me - If you are taking a week or more to "think about things" then please let a customer know instead of being silent. I'm not going to continue to send emails and waste my time. However, I will give you the benefit that aside from noise, your receiver sounds delicious and I would really love it if someone would send me a working receiver. Posting in this forum is the only way to get your attention since emails won't work.

Kevin, I apologize for anything that may appear to go outside the safe zone, but anyone reading this would now be much wiser to check out the unit before they walk away from the store.

[miner]

Ok check this out...


I called the manager at Home Theater Store and told him about the green stickers and he went in the back to look at the Rotel inventory and he said the only ones with that green sticker are the RSX-1056. This could mean that the QA issue was only in a response to the 1056 specifically since the stickers aren't on any other Rotel products. Or.. that means that the Store at my location simply doesn't get fully tested product for models other than the 1056! There's obviously a lack of communication on Rotel's part as to which pile they need to pick the wood from. If I worked there, I'd make sure you guys wouldn't be hurting from dumb issues like these.

My RB-1070 & RC-1070 that I bought from THTS in Houston had the stickers on them. Hmmm....

[KAP]

I'm not sure which of the Club Rotel rules I broke but it appears that some of my posts were removed. At any rate, here are the results of my "buzz" test last night:

1. The buzz eminates from all 5 speakers as soon as the Volume is set to 1, whether in 2 Channel mode or Multi-Channel Mode.

2. I attempted to plug the 1067 directly into the wall and into various outlets on my Monster with no change in "buzz" level.

3. With no source selected, the "buzz" increases as the Volume level increases. It becomes extremely loud when the volume is set at 82.

However, I discovered the the lowest volume setting I would ever use is 24, and at that volume the "buzz" sound is not noticable.

I discovered that my Lexicon in another room emits a similar "buzz" but just not quite as loud.....and that could be based on room acoustics.

It seems as though the old "crackling" issue was the same for everyone. I'm a bit surprised that the "buzz" issue is not consistent. I.E.....mine exists, but is not a problem.

Rotel..........if you are listening, I'm very pleased.

[SQconstable]

I spoke to one of the main guys at Rotel today. First, he explained that it's important that any return/repair work needs to have the communication of both the dealer and the customer. I think much of my time could have been saved if I wasn't thrown out of the loop - I really was just on-call, waiting for the dealer to tell me what was going on. I never talked with anyone at Rotel because I wasn't encouraged. This is a big lesson - nobody cares more about your property more than yourself.

Rotel said that the green stickers thing is random because they can't fully test every unit because of time restriction. Also, units that aren't believed to be faulty aren't worried too much about. As far as the sound level in their repair area, it's an isolated area of a larger workspace and isn't as quiet as most other repair facilities but some item are brought to much quieter places. Rotel is going to attempt to repair the original receiver I sent in (which came back inoperable for some reason). It may be hard to find out what exactly it is when repairing more complex electronics like the 1067 due to more layers on the PC boards inside. Anyone ever try to repair a motherboard? I wouldn't try it. So first I have to wait for them to fix the unknown issue first and then they'll get to the buzzing. I was told that if creating an extra ground to the chassis did fix the unit, they would ask for my permission to modify my unit. Sure! I wouldn't mind, seriously. I am not sure that doing such would help though, because grounding chassis is more of a solution for fixing that type of hum that KAP is getting (variable, not fixed).

KAP, you should try grounding the chassis where there is no paint on that metal. Also, some people connect chassis of all of their gear together, and then connect to the ground contact on your wall outlet. You can use a wire wrapped around the middle screw of your outlets (ground). If that doesn't work, shove the wire in the third prong hole in case the middle screw isn't setup to be ground - but in most cases it is.


I do worry some about my time constraints with each project coming up though so I wish that receiver a speedy recovery. It seems that Rotel should rather find out what this problem is instead of just passing the unit on as a "lemon" and sending out another. You never know.. it could just be some capacitor out of spec and isn't filtering something Either way, I'm happy that I was able to get the ball rolling and talk to the right people.

As always, the squeaky wheel gets tha grease!

[SQconstable]

Oh by the way, the only reason that there is no ground prong on the 1067 is because spec does not require for it. The massive 1090 amp, however, draws a ton of current comparitively, and needs the ground prong for the simple reason of protecting humans from electrocution.

Interesting though.. the 1067 still draws 990w of power which is around 8A.

[KAP]

I'll definitely attempt to ground my 1067 this weekend and see what happens. Regarding the ground prong issue.........can't the 1067 owners upgrade their power cords in an effort to reduce the buzz?

I give a thumbs up to Rotel and my local dealer for how I was treated one year ago during my 1067 return. Both were very concerned and my dealer made it clear that they were going to do anything to make me satisfied. I'm already thinking about an upgrade to separates and perhaps the new digital amplifier. Hmmmm, I wonder if my dealer has any kind of trade in/up policy.

[SQconstable]

Yesterday I went up to the store again. They had set up two brand new RSX-1067's side by side. We had 6.5" woofer Dynaudio's (4 ohm) hooked to both - we all heard the low 60Hz humming coming from the woofer as well as decent static buzz coming from the tweeters when Muted. We then hooked up some 8" woofer B&W's (8 ohm) to the amps and evaluated - the humming through the woofer was much louder and the tweeter displayed the static buzz much more clearly. What I'm realizing is that impedance may have little effect on how loud we heard this problem because other variables come into play ... like speakers sensitivity, and most importantly, woofer size!

Think about it... 60Hz is GOING TO PLAY LOUDER on a larger woofer. Those Dynaudio's didn't help the problem, they only rolled it off.

Anyhow, I wanted to hear how this sounded on my Behringer Truth Passive Monitors at home: http://www.behringer.com/B2031P/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Oh my... this humming coming from the 8.75" woofers is more than twice as loud as those B&W 8"!!!! It's no wonder I'm hearing this so loud.

I called Rotel and asked, "what size woofers are you using to hear the receiver?" Well, he said something that kinda shocked me... 3" woofer.

Rotel said they did have other larger speakers there they could hook up and test though, like something with a 6.5" because it could supposedly "play down to 38Hz", but you and I both know that even my 8.75" woofers can play down to 10Hz, but at... like... -25dB! I find it odd that someone would even try using a 3" woofer to diagnose a 60Hz hum - and even 6.5" woofers have more rolloff than drivers much larger. So of course they couldn't really hear the problem like myself and my store was explaining. Either way, an oscilliscope on the outputs would help diagnose this. I'm glad I'm not currently using larger mains with 12" (as in a 4-way) subs or it'd drive me nuts. However, I was actually planning on building an array of 1" tweets, dome mids, two 8's, and a 12" in each front speaker later on.

I'm wondering if the "static" issues ppl were having with some amps was just the characteristic of the buzzing coming from a tweeter since the complimentary humming wasn't "heard" through small woofers. Plus, throw in a noisy environment in the mix and the problem is masked. My listening environment is dead quiet with five of these studio monitors all around me at a semi-close distance (considered "small" for HT room). My tweeters aren't as sensitive as the ones in that B&W bookshelf speaker, thank the Lord, but my woofers are just too large and sensitive (only 89dB though) to mask 60Hz. Too bad the humming isn't affected or eliminated via crossover settings and/or "Small" vs. "Large" speaker setting (Bass Management frequency redirect). I'm hoping they can somehow modify my original unit so I don't have to learn how to deal with hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm all day.

[KAP]

That is very interesting. I'm quite shocked that Rotel would try to diagnose a sound issue via a 3" woofer.

I doesn't sound to me as though ANY 1067 is going to work with the Behringer's.

However, that still leaves the question..........what in the world is causing this issue in the 1067's?

[SQconstable]

To be honest, I don't think ANY speakers will work that much differently on a new 1067, at least not for dead-silent 5.1 or 2.0 studio environment mixing. Clients will think I'm "cheap" if they hear the hum at all. I probably also hear the hum at my studio much louder simply because of environmental noise at the local store where we were doing the comparisons - I had commented how their AC/Heater noise was so much louder than at home. Studios turn off AC's and heaters when doing a recording or sometimes when listening to a mix. I don't have mine going constantly like the store too. Another guy that works there also does 5.1 mixes and said he now notices the humming coming from his speakers when using his RSX-1056. Hopefully I haven't ruined it for people but this 1067 is much more expensive than almost any consumer receiver, including SOME Denon to a point. This is the ONLY receiver I've owned that I can be quite sure to say that every new one I'm sent as a replacement will have this humming.

That store demo model is becoming more attractive by the minute - why is that one so perfect? Rotel told me I may want to move to something else which is more professional but the demo that sold me on buying this 1067 was as professional as it gets! Something changed with the design of the 1067's for the worse, and all these new units I've heard, well, 3 of them within a year's time, are flawed.

Please, Rotel, go back in time and find the problem.

[KAP]

Most 1067 owners..........at least the ones on this thread are not complaining about the buzz issue. I think there have only been a few complaints. I wonder if the buzz issue is specific to a certain batch or version number? Mine is version 1.2.0 and obviously has the buzz.

I'd be interested in knowing what version the 1067 in the store is.

[SQconstable]

When I hold MUTE down on my unit it shows V1.2.2-050304
Which probably means 5/3/04 for date.

I think the version is just for the firmware version so maybe the hum problem wouldn't be fixed with upgrading.. it shouldn't affect it.

[SQconstable]

The demo unit at the Home Theater Store which is flawless is:
V1.1.1-031111

They say this is the first unit version that was ever out. Hmm.. maybe firmware has an affect. Not sure though. Lemme get with Rotel...

[SQconstable]

I just found out that my store did inform Rotel of the model number of their demo unit so they can look and see what might be different about it - I was surprised this wasn't brought up very early, yet it probably took 3 new 1067's to go through to see if that was the case. I think we're getting closer to the issue. maybe?

[SQconstable]

One thing that's interesting about the two new units I've tested after my original one was sent in for repair - I've noticed that the heat issue has been addressed. With my first amp, when idling (playing no music), the 1067 would get so hot I couldn't put my hand on the top metal casing for more than a second or two before saying OUCH. On these other two new units, WOW, after even playing music for an extended amount of time, the unit doesn't even get too hot for the touch. I can easily put my hand on the top and leave it there without it being unbearable!

So that does prove that Rotel does change design.

[KAP]

As I've posted numerous times, my 1067 gets extremely hot. I'm very glad that Rotel is addressing that problem. I am concerned about what the lifespan of my unit will be.

I'll probably want to upgrade by the time it explodes, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Back to the buzz issue.............if Rotel is really narrowing this down and can solve the problem, they'll be making a lot of current and future customers happy.

[SQconstable]

Yeah who knows how many studio engineers passed up buying a Rotel receiver because they're the few that actually went up to a connected speaker and put their ear to each driver. In fact, it's quite standard to do that when shopping for an amplifier for control rooms - you simply don't want a noisy amp for many reasons. A good tip for everyone would be this: you shouldn't trust a noisy store to evaluate something like noise that will be louder in your home/studio anyhow - put your ear to the speakers at different volume levels. I did this, however, it didn't really pay off because I didn't get the same unit I heard

[miner]

SQ - look at www.hometheaterstore.com - on their contact page is a form to write to the CEO directly. Get him involved, or yet, call him and talk directly (I have yet to get any responses from emails sent to him although the page states 'immediate reply'). You should not have to take a $500 hit because of a faulty Rotel unit. Maybe they should trade their highly used unit and throw in many IC/cables to even the deal. Please keep us informed.

[KAP]

What I find really unfortunate about this situation is that SQconstable absolutely loves the sound/functionality of the Rotel 1067 demo receiver that is in the store.

Most people would have given up by now and returned it for a different brand but he is giving Rotel and his dealer every opportunity in the world to solve the problem. In a way he may be the most loyal Rotel customer out there. I really hope it works out.

[SQconstable]

Thankyou for saying that KAP. You seem to be a very intuitive person.

I'm not a person that just complains to be a complainer. I know that engineers do make mistakes, and sometimes it takes some serious prying into issues to make sure that others' don't have to take a hit because nobody lifted a finger to ask questions. We, as loyal customers, ARE the beta testers, and thanks to moderators like Kevin, we're allowed to voice our honest complaints on a forum like this so we can work together to fix unforeseen problems. I wouldn't want any other hard-working problem to not get their $2200's worth on something that promises to deliver what a demo model that never pleased. That is false advertising. And yes, I will contact more people within the Home Theater Store. Interestingly, it seems that not even a CEO of such a company could talk the same lingo we know, and I'm sure that our detective work would get us further along more quickly.

I think it's a shame that Rotel's amps are buzzy (all of the new ones are as far as I'm concerned) because yes, the sound is what I've been after all along.. just like the demo I heard. I will NOT settle for an inferior deal! I will get what I paid $2200 for.

[gd]

My local store posed the possibility of giving me $1700 credit for my year-old purchase.. that's $500 lost because I kept a faulty unit for a year. I'd rather take their demo unit at a small discount! I hate this situation.

Again, am not liking your dealer's responses.

Esp in light of the fact they are replicating / acknowledging the problem right there in-store... along with a functioning demo in the same environment.

There's a 5-yr warranty in play that should count for something.

I agree with Kevin's assessment that defects will be few and far between... but if you receive yet another defective 1067, there certainly is a possibility of a problem in the batch that's accessible to your area... in which case, it might take a while to resolve, even with the best intentions and efforts.

If it was me, and I really wanted the 1067, and I understood the big picture (i.e., Rotel is not widely distributed), I'd go for the demo... but only with much better terms than offered... and then only after a thorough inspection / diagnostic... otherwise, I'd bolt for another make -- I, too, have been through this (not w/ Rotel), and as interesting and informative as it may be to seek and resolve a problem, multiple trips to the retailer can get old.

But you may be more patient than me... if so, follow through on that patience and make sure to keep Rotel in the loop with each step, don't assume your retailer is maintaining a dialogue, make sure all parties are cc'd when email goes out... that patience and documentation will pay off later when it comes time to resolve.

Frankly, I'm skeptical of your dealer -- you might need Rotel's backing to get a fair outcome.

[Marlboroman]

What actually gets me about this is that listening to a signal from an amplifier to hear a hum is all well and good, and I can absolutely see how a repair facility would have small speakers on their test benches instead of monster speakers with 15" drivers (<---sarcasm on driver size), but there is more involved. With the proper equipment, signal generators, o-scopes, and distortion meters, you do not have to hear the hum but instead you can actually see it. This is why technicians do not have to have large speakers and can just connect their equipment up and take a look at the signal going in and what is coming out and see if there is a "60Hz" hum. Since I have visited the repair facility in North Reading before I can tell you that these guys have a ton of equipment on their benches for this exact thing. I would take their word on it that they absolutely did not "hear" any hum at their facility. I would assume that this statement would also mean that they did not "see" it either which would lead anyone to believe that the problem is not with the unit in question but with something else in the system. Could be the AC in your general area is just poor quality and maybe you should look into adding a high quality voltage regulator such as an APC H15. This is just my 2 cents.

[SQconstable]

The store is allowing me to bring my speakers in and see if it doesn't buzz on that demo unit and take it while dropping off this "new" unit I now have. He said that if it's a buzzless unit I'm after, they can't help me directly since everything has to go thru Rotel.

[SQconstable]

I respect your outside viewpoint. However, Rotel really only implied they did a human, audible, listening diagnosis. "We don't hear any buzz but we're going to try to check some things out and see if we can modify it".

Also, I'm actually using an APC right now (basic $100 one), but we've moved the unit to two other line conditioners at a friend's house ($1500 Richard Gray, and also the APC S15). The amp's buzzing didn't change one bit. Further, at the local store they have a 1067 using the same power source and that unit isn't buzzing. So next to eachother, there's been 2 new units at the store that buzzed while the old demo unit didn't hum at all. There's no question that the problem is within the unit.

[gd]

Now I'm convinced your retailer is subpar.

Do yourself a favor... keep cool and keep Rotel advised with each step.

[SQconstable]

Sometimes I think how at this step most people would just curse someone on the phone, and go for the Denon. hehe
I called the dealer because I never heard back from Rotel today after they called this morning, so I wanted to see if they talked recently without informing me of any changes.

[hamlyn]

I had a similar issue when I connected my RDV-1060 to my receiver. The buzz disappeared when I replaced the extra long component cable which was left coiled for better cable organization with a shorter and better quality cable.
As PewterTA suggested, disconnect everything but your speakers and see if that fixes your problem.
Additionaly, I have heard from different sources that they heard buzzing and humming when using power cords other than the ones supplied by Rotel. Rotel's power cords typically do not have the third grounding prong...

[Kevin D]

As PewterTA suggested, disconnect everything but your speakers and see if that fixes your problem. ...

His problem is the buzz is there when only the speakers are connected.

Kevin D.

[KAP]

It is appearing more and more as though the dealer in Austin is not the type that Rotel would want to be selling their products and certainly not the kind of person that most of us would want to deal with. Shame on him I suppose.

My buzz remains despite a grounding that I performed from the Monster to the wall plate.

I'm still wondering about the firmware versions and possible effects they have on the buzz. Essentially all we know now is that the demo unit is from the first version and does not buzz. We don't know if that unit is an anomaly or if all initial version 1067's are buzzless.

[SQconstable]

I had emailed Rotel again to check on the status of that unit they were modding.

Rotel sent a response saying they agreed to partial credit.

I asked how it compared to the 1077, and I then asked why they gave up on it so quickly and they responded:

"We have done extensive test here on RSX 1067 and found nothing out of specification. We have also tested units at our warehouse and could not find any out of specification. The Dealer and I believe that this unit is within specification, and considering you are using it a recording studio application it may not serve your purpose properly.

The RMB 1077 is not share the same topology as the RSX1067, but again this is a home HIFI amplifier and is not a studio quality amplifier. If you need higher quality and still want to use Rotel, you may want to go with a higher end of Rotel Product. I personally use RB1080’s."


I have the same ears whether I'm in a studio or at the home theatre. I'm assuming that the 1067 and 1056's buzzing and humming in the noisefloor is "within spec" and expected. If you folks aren't hearing it as much, it means you have other variables to help mask it (impedance, distance, size of woofer).

But it's still there and they say it's "normal". They say that the units they tested were "within spec" rather than "noiseless". However, they're noisy and still "within spec" so what does that mean?

[KAP]

Wow..........that is scary. I imagine that your big woofers do amplify the buzz and your needs in a studio are perhaps more stringent than those for home theater use, but I find it hard to believe that your buzz is "within specifications."

Also, they recommend moving up to a "higher" end Rotel Product? I'd ask them this: OK, $2,200 doesn't get me a quiet Rotel amplifier........how much does?

Either way, I'd still be interested in knowing if the demo unit works in your studio. At least we would know if that one unit functions quietly........or per their standards "FAR EXCEEDS" specifications!!!

Take the money and move on I suppose.

[miner]

Bottom line - is THTS giving you full credit of the unit or are they wanting to 'discount' the refund due to age? Well, at least Rotel is attempting to 'right' this wrong. Also, is Rotel suggesting a RB-1080 is a higher-end product compared to the 1067?