Warmer sound...

[TEK]

I'm wondering if you folks might be able to give me some nice advice, as you nice people always do.

I think I might have to let my B&W 803 go... :cry:
The 803 does have a reputation for beeing a bit on the bright side, and sadly I have to agree. In my case I actually think that my problem is that I'm way to close to the speakers and/or my room causes some bad reflections.
I do not have any problems with the bass section. And I do have enough after I built my previous sub ;-)



So, what I'm looking for is two foldet.

1) Is there any room treatment you think I can try that might help me out?

2) If I'm going to build a speaker, something I actually want to do, I think it will have to be something smaller than a floor standing (I currently have very limited place for wood work these days). Maybe a MTM configuration?
But if I do that I will target for a warm/soft and forgiving sound.
Is there any range/brand/type of elements that is more suited than other when your looking for this kind of sound stage, or is it all in the filter?

BTW: For TV and movies the sound is no problem, but when I sit down to really listen to music it's getting to "bright" for my taste.

My room is shaped like this:



And this picture might give an impression of the distance between the speakers and the listening position:



Thanks, TEK

[ThomasW]

The space is a nightmare!....might as well use headphones....

803 are good speakers you'd be hard pressed to build something better.

Looks like you could use a BIG deep diffuser and absorber on the back wall.

But first.....

Make some frequency response measurements to see where there's peaking. Then does your receiver/pre-pro have tone controls? If so start playing with them.

[TEK]

The space is a nightmare!....might as well use headphones....

:-( Jup, I know...
I have tried for several years to navigate myself (= the stereo) out of the corner and into the main/larger part of the livingroom but with no luck at all. Not everyone have understanding for the more important needs here in life :roll:

803 are good speakers you'd be hard pressed to build something better.

Looks like you could use a BIG deep diffuser and absorber on the back wall.

But first.....
Make some frequency response measurements to see where there's peaking.

That's a good idea. Then I have to get myself some mesuring equitment.
Any suggestion? I think I have seen something in some posts a long time ago.
Could it be enough to hook up a decent mic to my laptop computer?

Then does your receiver/pre-pro have tone controls? If so start playing with them.

Nope, no luck there...

I think that your suggestion about mesuring to finding the problem spots is the right way to go. When you know what the problem is it is usually easier both to correct it as well as verify the impact on the attemt to correct it...

[---k---]

The Behringer mic is always recommended. You need a soundcard that has phantom power like the MAudio PrePro. You can also use a Behringer small mixer board with phantom power instead of the soundcard.

There are several posts that hopefully a search will find.

[ThomasW]

I've never heard of a receiver/pre-pro that didn't have some form of built in EQ. However if yours doesn't then think about getting a Behringer DEQ2496. These are modestly priced and have surprisingly good SQ.

Here's a webpage I put together about what's needed to create a home test PC.

https://web.archive.org/web/20080726115702/http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpage10.html

[jimangie1973]

I've never heard of a receiver/pre-pro that didn't have some form of built in EQ. However if yours doesn't then think about getting a Behringer DEQ2496. These are modestly priced and have surprisingly good SQ.

Here's a webpage I put together about what's needed to create a home test PC.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080726...dEQpage10.html

The DEQ2496 is what I would suggest also. It has a built in RTA if you don't have a PC based measurement system. It obviously doesn't do gated measurements, but it is really useful for analyzing room modes. As far as the sound quality goes, I would agree it is very very good. The EQ flexibility is top notch as well. If you only need it for a single digital source, you can use Toslink In and Out and use the DAC on your pre-pro.

[TEK]

Thanks!

I will start by getting the mesurment done.

In a little fear of getting of-topic here:
I'm in the process of bying a Media Center PC. My initial ide is to just go with the digital out directly from the motherbord and into the receiver.

However, if it shows that I have room issues it migth be an option to add a hi qualityh soundcard, use that to equalize/flatten the respons curve (and the sub), and then use analog output form the card to my processor.
Maybe I even replace my processor with a 5 channel tube pre-amps instead :lol:
A bit serious, do you think that would work, and be a good solution?

PS: Don't expect this thread to go very fast forward ops:

Edit: I will in any cases go for a PC-based measurement system. Thomas: Thanks for the description!

[Jonathan DA]

That's a tough set up. Have you considered rotating your entire set up 90 degrees clockwise? So that the window is in behind the tv. That way you'd have a more symmetrical wall arrangement. Right now, you're getting vastly different side reflections from the left vs right speakers. If you rotated everything, you'd have a decent starting point from which to add bass traps and first reflection absorbers.

Overall, you need to get your reflections and RT60 under control. Only then will you actually be able to tell if your speakers are too bright. In the current arrangement, any accurate speaker is likely to sound overly bright.

If you don't have the option of adding acoustical treatments to your corner of the room, you might want to consider an Audyssey Pro eq system as a contingency.

[warnerwh]

Something to keep in mind is that the bass to treble relationship needs a good balance besides measuring good. Btw you don't want a flat frequency response in your room because it will sound thin and bright. You want the lowest frequencies under 120hz or so to be boosted a bit.

It's a room/taste adjustment so nobody is right or wrong. As mentioned above the Behringer DEQ 2496 is a very wonderful tool. At it's price it's an absolute killer bargain. With it you can adjust your speakers to your taste with ease.

Before I did anything I'd cover up that window with very thick curtains. Also a nice sized absorber made with rigid fiberglass behind your head about 4" thick will help a lot. The right corner needs one of these 2'x4' absorbers stradled in that corner.

Room acoustics make a huge difference in sound quality. It's hard to understand until you experience it first hand. Your room is an acoustic disaster. No offense meant what so ever, it's just what you have to work with.

I'd also try changing speaker position a bit. There's no rule set in stone where your speakers need to be, just rough guidelines. If you point them so they aren't pointing directly at you this will reduce the strength of the tweeters as you'll be listening off axis where output is down.

[sfdoddsy]

I agree with those above that you're unlikely to be able to build asomething that will sound better than the 803s in that room, and that you're a prime candidate for room EQ.

The DEQ would be a good choice since you can both measure the room and apply basic automatic room EQ.

I've also had good results from using the Audyssey system that comes with many of the modern receivers and prepros in conjunction with the EQ I do with my DCX2496.

For a PC based system, I find the M-Audio Mobile Pre USB preamp in conjunction with the Behringer mic is very easy to use from the hardware side, and either TrueRTA or ETF for the software.