"Fundamentals" for a new stand mounted speaker project -what goes around comes around

[JonMarsh]

Jon, I was looking at the spec sheet on the C18EN001 and it was calling for a .2 cu ft sealed enclosure for and F3 of about 135Hz, seeing that your test box was at .75 cu ft, I was curious as to why the extra volume?

was trying to get the impedance bump as far away as possible from the crossover point.

In the 0.75 cu ft box (not the proportions I want in final version, which will be deeper and not as tall for the midrange) Fb is right at 100 Hz. The crossover frequency is 250 Hz, as planned and implemented, and I didn't want the Fb so close to that point.



Here, you can see the impedance curve of the midrange driver by itself.

[Steve Manning]

was trying to get the impedance bump as far away as possible from the crossover point.

In the 0.75 cu ft box (not the proportions I want in final version, which will be deeper and not as tall for the midrange) Fb is right at 100 Hz. The crossover frequency is 250 Hz, as planned and implemented, and I didn't want the Fb so close to that point.



Here, you can see the impedance curve of the midrange driver by itself.

Ah ..... thanks for the explanation.

[fjhuerta]

Some day, I would love to read the Jon Marsh biography.

My thoughts, exactly!

[JonMarsh]

Well, things are happening quietly behind the scenes, so to speak...

• The new resistors for adjusting the padding for the crossover have arrived- should be able to test those latest this weekend, maybe listen to test cabinets with some decent electronics over here, like the AURALiC Vega DAC and M22 amplifier
• Steve Manning is pulling me over to his version of the Dark Side; I've downloaded Sketchup Pro 2015, and started running through the tutorials while eating lunch today- I kept looking for more complicated ways of doing things, but that's the key point of SketchUp, keeping it simple...
• I have "officially" decided this is a two model project series- the Isiris Model One monitor being akin to a TAD Compact Evolution One on steroids, with the SW223BD02 woofer and the SS26W/00-0 PR; while the Isiris Model Two monitor will be a floor stander, possibly with dual SDX10's in each cabinet, as well as dual PR's. Those will be heavy...
• The cabinet concept is roughed out for the Model One, and I'm gluing together front panels this evening from LBL if all goes according to my plan...
• A second batch of crossover parts have been ordered
• The totall insane stretch goal is to somehow have the pair built by Burning Amp, probably with no finishing, and take them there; backup plan is bringing the Ardents.
• I've ordered another maple stool so I'll have matching speaker stands.... :W

[augerpro]

Where you do source LBL from?

[JonMarsh]

Multiple places- most recently from Woodworkers Source, but also from my local Rockler, who can get a lot of stuff from a local specialty warehouse.

http://www.woodworkerssource.com/Bamboo.html

[dar47]

Haha, maple chair stands.:T

You be careful if you take the Ardents as they may going missing or worse yet you will get orders for production. :W Seeing that similar Seas coax kit for north of 2 grand I'm thinking that sure better be a nice monitor? I'll be interested in your approaches total bill.

How are you liking that AURALiC? I ran new cat 6 wire, new 5g router and upgraded my old pc (the server for the Mind 180 to an I5) and now dishing very good sound easily. Funny I even said to my self I think the Mind sounds better now.:roll: I think this approach is sound when I see others are taking useful pc's and rendering them useless for other tasks trying to get good sound out of a computer. If your NAD vault craps you can easily convert to a server, Renderer and dac. Can your Auralic render and bypass the it's dac and go to your dac1?

[JonMarsh]

've got the Aires streamer for the AURALiC Vega, and the few times I've had a chance to listen to the Vega, it's seemed quite good, certainly in the range I expect for that amount of money.

The real problem is that I've been so busy with work and other aspects of my daily schedule that I hardly ever get a chance to listen to music since I've been working so much on the weekends. Right now there isn't time in the evening- by the time we get dinner, get the dog walked, and cleaned up, I'm turning in to bed, and GF is watching something streamed like Orange is the New Black. (retired, unlike me).

I don't even have time to watch my iTunes TV shows unless I do it at lunch, and mostly now I'm studying software of one sort or another at lunch- SIMPLIS-SIMetrix a lot lately, LTspice, Eagle PCB, and today 2015 SketchUp Pro. I've got several days of tutorial files for SketchUp (for lunch) at that rate to go through.

Big push to finish this b*tch of an application note, it sure would be easier if I didn't know enough to sweat the details, like 80% of the stuff that goes out doesn't do. But between that and the deadline for an FAE training from scratch, 7 days a week is the only prudent thing to do, until it's done.

But, it's all progress. Oh, and sometimes at lunch or in the evening I work on my little side project- it's coming along well, based on the current simulation results, all discrete circuitry so far, and I've probably evaluated 4-6 different transistors in every functional position. I'll give you a hint what it is, the idle frequency is about 425kHz. Balanced instrumentation style front end is next, plus start up and protection circuitry. Got bins of parts to build these, once I decide on a specific component for a specific function, I just order them... kind of nutso, I suppose... maybe it's just pride of ownership. :W There's a lot of necessary physical details not shown in the schematic, such as the output filter which must be composed of WIMA 220nF film caps in parallel, to get the AC voltage handling at high frequency.




A lot more work to do... but it's fun, when I have some time to do it. It will likely never match an nCore 400, but sometimes it's just the journey that's entertaining....

Final design will run on +/- 65V rails- it's pretty much there for that already. Gotta update the front end, though.

[csmielke]

Jon,
Sourced some BB plywood locally and soon the fun begins. I have to complete the refinishing of a Limbert (competitor of Stickley in the early 1900s) rocker before starting. Any thoughts on the proper heights for the driver and PRs above the floor?

[JonMarsh]

It could depend on your crossover point, but normally for a notional sub and PR setup, the closer to the boundaries, the better off you are- in your case, I'd follow the layout of the tower that you posted, and put the drivers and PR close to the floor.

For me, that doesn't work out as well, because I have a crossover point up around 250 Hz, and I want good near field response, which means keeping the offset angle between the woofer and C18EN001 reasonably small. So that's why in my case, as these are a sort of over grown bookshelf/stand mount system, I'll be using something like an 18" to 24" stand. If I understand what you're doing, you should stay with a form factor like your original proposal.

[JonMarsh]

well, a bit of progress this evening...

I have to say I have too many reflexes still born of other 3D CAD programs, but I can see the attraction of SketchUp, and for somethings adjusting and tweaking things can be much quicker, but I've still got a ways to go to really feel comfortable in it, and how some of the commands and cursor tricks work. I wish it had a little more of the smart cursor stuff of ViaCAD/Shark. But, regardless, the experiment is working, and I'll likely buy the full Pro version well before the 30 day trial expires.


I still have some additional beveled side panels to put on, but pretty much everything else is at a usable point for the first build.







Most of the material is LBL; the black side walls are some phenolic covered BB ply I have on hand, normally used for tooling, but it's great for building. Will probably use the same for the chamber divider.


Particularly if one can get by with the limitations of the free maker version, it's a heck of a deal. It feels like some care was put in to writing it, in terms of optimizing the on screen performance, because with the native version on my Mac Pro, the CPU usage is quite low, and it's like a knife through hot butter as regards panning and working with objects, including loading in some demo files. Reminds me of LTspice on the Mac.

Now let's see if I can squeeze in a bit of time to cut and route the front and back panels this weekend, and make the dimensional drawing using Layout at lunch tomorrow!

[JonMarsh]

Haha, maple chair stands.:T

Seeing that similar Seas coax kit for north of 2 grand I'm thinking that sure better be a nice monitor? I'll be interested in your approaches total bill.

You know, the KingRO4Y "King Roy" project did give me some pause for thought when initially contemplating a coaxial driver project with the C18EN001. Of course, since I'm not marketing kits or selling plans, in one sense it didn't matter at all. But, it would be logical to say, "Build or buy?" - could I bring anything to the party that would make a bespoke design worth the time and effort? Here's the main points that convinced me to go ahead...

• The passive crossover for the midrange to tweeter in the King Roy is a rather non-optimal design, IMO. It doesn't do a good job supperssing the upper break ujp mode of the midrange (hardly surprising- bog standard 3rd order electrical); 25 dB versus 40 dB+ attenuation (my past experience with metal cone drivers from any source indicates this is very important)
• The Hypex plate amp is well designed, BUT, we're running everything through a DSP and DAC, and the UcD grade class D amps; which are not bad, but they're not nCore amps, and the DAC output stage is a question mark in my mind- it's not an M51 or AURALiC Vega or Metric Halo ULN-8, much less a TotalDAC-D1.
• The per speaker price is about $1500, if you include their pre built cabinet, which looks pretty nice, for a rather conventional style and proportioned box. (me, I hate conventionally proportioned (as from the 70's or 80's) speaker cabinets).
• Speaking of that cabinet, it's a bit on the small side, 16.7 L, and requires a fair bit of EQ but delivers at about 30 Hz at -3 dB using that EQ and a fair bit of power. Contrast that to the Wavecor + Scanspeak design, no EQ, -3dB at about 22-23 Hz, and a very well behaved upper end response on the woofer. Hmmm.
• The King Roy design is extensible, using two SEAS SL26R PR's and extending the subwoofer cabinet volume by 50cm in length, with re-calcluation of the DSP filters. Then, alternatively, there's the Model 2 tower which is planned; SDX10 woofer(s), not sure about the cosmetic design yet. Probably just a taller version of the Model One.
• Also, there are several DSP presets, and some nice optionis provided standard for the King Roy. That's both a plus and a minus, in my book. For middle range expectations, it's pretty nice.
• So, I figure with the cabinets and other materials required, we're looking at a BOM per pair for the King Roy of about $3K USD, closer to $3500 to $4K for the tower version.
• That leaves some wiggle room for the Model One with SW223BD02, and a floor stander using, let's say, dual SDX10's in series for each cabinet, with 2 PR's. That would be an interesting shoot out, depending on associated source electronics.
• Per cabinet BOM for the Model One is running $472 + $123.40 + ~$390 (cross over), and that doesn't include any power amps, unlike the King Roy. So I would say the King Roy has a nice value proposition, EXCEPT that the crossover is less ideal than I would prefer, and there's no flexibility about amplification and DAC/DSP in the signal path. One could do a King Roy using a ULN-8 and whatever power amps you want, but that would be pretty pricey. Might be worth it, though.
• OTOH< compared with a TAD Compact Evolution One, either of these solutions is a stone cold bargain. Will either approach the listening gestalt of the Compact Evolution One? That's rather another question, but I think the Model One has a better chance. I.E., let's take some of that $24K price of the Compact Evolution One and spend it on DAC, and amplifier, and preamp.

[Steve Manning]

well, a bit of progress this evening...

I have to say I have too many reflexes still born of other 3D CAD programs, but I can see the attraction of SketchUp, and for somethings adjusting and tweaking things can be much quicker, but I've still got a ways to go to really feel comfortable in it, and how some of the commands and cursor tricks work. I wish it had a little more of the smart cursor stuff of ViaCAD/Shark. But, regardless, the experiment is working, and I'll likely buy the full Pro version well before the 30 day trial expires.


I still have some additional beveled side panels to put on, but pretty much everything else is at a usable point for the first build.







Most of the material is LBL; the black side walls are some phenolic covered BB ply I have on hand, normally used for tooling, but it's great for building. Will probably use the same for the chamber divider.


Particularly if one can get by with the limitations of the free maker version, it's a heck of a deal. It feels like some care was put in to writing it, in terms of optimizing the on screen performance, because with the native version on my Mac Pro, the CPU usage is quite low, and it's like a knife through hot butter as regards panning and working with objects, including loading in some demo files. Reminds me of LTspice on the Mac.

Now let's see if I can squeeze in a bit of time to cut and route the front and back panels this weekend, and make the dimensional drawing using Layout at lunch tomorrow!

Looking good Jon ........ and welcome to the dark side You may already know, but as an fyi when you draw your first circle in a drawing you can specify the number of "sides" that it uses ( I think the default is 16 sides which looks a a little rough). So as soon as you layout the first circle type a number followed by an "s" in the command box and hit enter, example 48s is what I typically use, and it will give you 48 sides, this will now be the default until you change it. The higher the number the prettier it looks, but just adds more data which slows things down, so it's a trade off.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks much for the tip... that's exactly the kind of thing I need to know. Me, I'm a "make the system work and have it look pretty" kind of guy...

Now I'll have to see if there's any way to make that retroactive or to modify an existing one... I suspect there's a lot of little tricks and features like this that don't work the way most other programs do= usually I'd go in to a global preference and just define how I'd want circle and curve resolution handled...

[dar47]

You know, the KingRO4Y "King Roy" project did give me some pause for thought when initially contemplating a coaxial driver project with the C18EN001. Of course, since I'm not marketing kits or selling plans, in one sense it didn't matter at all. But, it would be logical to say, "Build or buy?" - could I bring anything to the party that would make a bespoke design worth the time and effort? Here's the main points that convinced me to go ahead...

• The passive crossover for the midrange to tweeter in the King Roy is a rather non-optimal design, IMO. It doesn't do a good job supperssing the upper break ujp mode of the midrange (hardly surprising- bog standard 3rd order electrical); 25 dB versus 40 dB+ attenuation (my past experience with metal cone drivers from any source indicates this is very important)
• The Hypex plate amp is well designed, BUT, we're running everything through a DSP and DAC, and the UcD grade class D amps; which are not bad, but they're not nCore amps, and the DAC output stage is a question mark in my mind- it's not an M51 or AURALiC Vega or Metric Halo ULN-8, much less a TotalDAC-D1.
• The per speaker price is about $1500, if you include their pre built cabinet, which looks pretty nice, for a rather conventional style and proportioned box. (me, I hate conventionally proportioned (as from the 70's or 80's) speaker cabinets).
• Speaking of that cabinet, it's a bit on the small side, 16.7 L, and requires a fair bit of EQ but delivers at about 30 Hz at -3 dB using that EQ and a fair bit of power. Contrast that to the Wavecor + Scanspeak design, no EQ, -3dB at about 22-23 Hz, and a very well behaved upper end response on the woofer. Hmmm.
• The King Roy design is extensible, using two SEAS SL26R PR's and extending the subwoofer cabinet volume by 50cm in length, with re-calcluation of the DSP filters. Then, alternatively, there's the Model 2 tower which is planned; SDX10 woofer(s), not sure about the cosmetic design yet. Probably just a taller version of the Model One.
• Also, there are several DSP presets, and some nice optionis provided standard for the King Roy. That's both a plus and a minus, in my book. For middle range expectations, it's pretty nice.
• So, I figure with the cabinets and other materials required, we're looking at a BOM per pair for the King Roy of about $3K USD, closer to $3500 to $4K for the tower version.
• That leaves some wiggle room for the Model One with SW223BD02, and a floor stander using, let's say, dual SDX10's in series for each cabinet, with 2 PR's. That would be an interesting shoot out, depending on associated source electronics.
• Per cabinet BOM for the Model One is running $472 + $123.40 + ~$390 (cross over), and that doesn't include any power amps, unlike the King Roy. So I would say the King Roy has a nice value proposition, EXCEPT that the crossover is less ideal than I would prefer, and there's no flexibility about amplification and DAC/DSP in the signal path. One could do a King Roy using a ULN-8 and whatever power amps you want, but that would be pretty pricey. Might be worth it, though.
• OTOH< compared with a TAD Compact Evolution One, either of these solutions is a stone cold bargain. Will either approach the listening gestalt of the Compact Evolution One? That's rather another question, but I think the Model One has a better chance. I.E., let's take some of that $24K price of the Compact Evolution One and spend it on DAC, and amplifier, and preamp.

Haha, Don't get me wrong I'm very sure your design will kick the kit's butt as well as the Evolution One's especially considering your mobile need for this, and the money spent on the right details. :T

I'm just a little jaded when I think of all the car audio coax products I spend money on when I was a kid. Also had a listen to the Kef Blades when they first came out and went on tour through Canada. Seems to just be the new thing and I'm sure the commercial sales guys will come up with lots of new superlatives for all the new offerings with them. Guess for them it saves on 1 driver compared to a 3way. The form factor for a studio near field application could be great, but if they are to be a part of a listening room how do they beat a 2way wave guided monitor in a fair sized cabinet with a sub crossed to them or a reasonable 3way monitor and sub? Maybe this new Seas driver is better but it's not a cheap forum factor that's for sure. You will have to give a compare, Modula MK2, or your Modula supremo's with a sub added to the mix?

[JonMarsh]

Were those automotive coaxial speakers you mention true coincident mid woofer/tweeter drivers, or were they like the ones I remember seeing, with the tweeter mounted up on a post from the center of the magnet, and not truly waveguide loaded?

well, of course, this is a bit of a crap shoot- every new system approach is, which is why I've been taking it a bit slow, in some senses- just using some test boxes to get driver data and try out a crossover concept on one set of drivers. But as I have what looks like a genuine need at work, and later at home for the music studio that will eventually be setup in the living room (based around the Metric Halo and our collective instrument collection) it doesn't seem like it's completely unjustified on my part.

Face it, my name is Jon Marsh, and I have a speaker building problem- I just can't seem to quit thinking about and building new speakers. Usually it's bigger and more expensive, but since the Isiris (which is still being worked on back in Livermore, at least theoretically) I've had a different story arc, towards smaller systems and now something quite a bit different.

Based on what I heard the other weekend, I think this has some real potential, so what the hay.... I've glued up all the pieces now for the tops and bottoms, and front panels. Also, my "SketchUp for Dummies" book arrived today, which I think will exactly hit my current skill level with SketchUp, though I must thank Steve Manning for some links in the email to some very useful resources for it. Right now, I'm learning it enough just to get the design documented and underway as quickly as possible.

If I do have a working pair by mid October, this will be a new record (for me) for completing a new design, or at least match my old one, the NatalieP. That one came together like there was someone at my elbow guiding all my choices and efforts. Duh, oh yeah, that Force thing, I suppose. I only 'thought" it was my work! I was actually just a minion... of the Dark Side!

[dar47]

A creative mind is a beautiful thing! Wish I was close as others have said to play Watson to your Sherlock or maybe just minion, haha. I could crank out cabs and help with assemble and learn from your test methods for all the time sensitive ideas. We all know there is a wood worker lurking in there too and I think you get a kick out of finishing your projects too. Have fun with this one and let us know how this idea ranks with the others bashing in that head of yours.

[TEK]

...my name is Jon Marsh, and I have a speaker building problem...

:rofl: :yesnod:

[JonMarsh]

After a weekend of nothing but work, I'm probably a little grumpy, but my mood lifted a bit today, as a nice box from Parts Express arrived with the batch of crossover parts for the second crossover set build. Let's hear it for PE's duplicate order command... can save a bit of time!

Also got to feel a little old today, what with our group team meeting at work today, and my boss announcing my 30 year anniversary with the company... as he mentioned, I've been working here longer than some of our current engineers have been alive... makes me feel a bit like an old clock tower or something! At least lightning hasn't hit me yet and stopped it from turning over... that almost happened to one of our much younger (12 years younger) guys the week before, won't go into details, but it was quite a scare for his wife. Fortunately I have good lightning arrestors, seem to be working quite well.... :W

[dar47]

Congrats, 30 years with 1 company is an accomplishment! most young engineers move on every 5 years now a days.

[JonMarsh]

They do that because so many companies don't recognize or develop employees enough, and to get more money and more challenges, they move on. Now, IMO, that is both the company's fault, and the engineer's fault; we have this thing called the Technical Ladder where I work, and people are trained out it (well, sometimes only eventually- mine was about 10 years late!) and the emphasis is on developing non-engineering skills that enhance thought leadership and business impact. In my own experience, including when I finally got to attend that training (after neglect by some previous managers of mine), a lot of engineers just don't think in those terms, and don't generate the kinds of visibility and contributions that get the attention of management.

Being an old blues guitarist from East Texas, the idea of getting attention comes as second nature to me, so if you look at my employment history, I was doing a lot of those things long before we even had the Technical Ladder concept, early on in my career at this company. In fact, when I attended the special training at a resort in the Alps outside Munich, I spent most of my time as a foil for the trainer, relating stories and events from years before that embodied the concepts and practices they were trying to teach to the "young" guys entering the technical ladders system (generally around 40 or so...).

So, it has been an interesting 30 years, and I actually think working in a few small company situations before joining this firm in 1985 was a significant benefit as far as appreciating the idea of independent thinking and initiative, and being able to sell your ideas to other people...

But you know, these days I'd rather be building speakers... :W :B

[BobEllis]

I know you have those golden handcuffs, but retirement is pretty darned nice! Try it as soon as you can.

[Hank]

Heh-heh, my 36th was in July. 3M bought the company I worked at in December, 1982. It's been one of the best acquisitions, and certainly good for me. You guys continue to use copious amounts of our blue painter's tape (an Post-It Notes, of course) :W

[JonMarsh]

naturally, Hank!

i'm doing this new project just so I can keep my usage of blue painters tape and 3M sanding blocks up!

we finally got the work shed put up today- supposedly it's a storage shed, but it's going to be storming my power tools and providing a space to work out of the sun on wood projects and motorcycles, among other things. Film at 11... actually, I should probably wait to post pictures until we've got it painted- but even with just the primer exterior it doesn't look bad. Need to do an epoxy paint coating for the flooring, and some other detail work- too bad I'm booked for work-work this weekend and next. Going to do a few things on it after dinner tonight, though.

[JonMarsh]

Just some documentation update- I'm still getting familiar with Sketchup and Layout- yesterday evening, it was my turn with layout. It's a bit different than the tools I'm used to working with, doesn't have some of the automated 3D model to 2D drawing functions, but I'm getting the hang of it (perhaps slowly), and I like the way it is responsive when actually editing and updating stuff. The Sketchup for Dummies book is proving quite helpful, but I confess to still just using it enough to get what I immediately need done, done- just don't have the time to dig into it properly.

But I've got my dimensioned drawings for the basic cabinet done, and hopefully may find a bit of time this weekend to do some work on the pieces.






Something else that will be soaking up some extra CPU cycles is the new "out building"... no, not for that purpose, but for storage and even for woodworking out of the sun!

This was just put up yesterday- yes, in one day. Well, actually, we had the site preparation and leveling done a couple of weeks ago, and the ToughShed installer team said our site prep was well above average. But the actual construction on site took from a little after 10 AM until about 5:30. They say they do two of the smaller ones in one day, but the bigger guys like this take more time.



Not visible in this picture below is the 4 ft deep loft, installed at the side wall height of 7 ft; (extra cost option- 6 ft is standard), which with with the high gabled roof gives quite a bit of storage. This one also has upgraded shingles- but no paint, GF is going to do the painting with supplies she's just bought matching the house colors.

Yes, those are sliding windows with window screens, another extra cost option, but I believe well worth it. Below we have the final acceptance inspection being conducted by the K9 Corps and discussed with management.



Will this result in a new level of productivity on speaker projects here at Verde Mesa Estates? well, maybe not, but it will likely be easier and more comfortable, and I'll have a better spot for storing the big table saw and a couple of the motorcycles...

Next task is floor prep and coating with a two part epoxy paint.

[BobEllis]

... the ToughShed installer team said our site prep was well above average.

Gee, there's a surprise. I'd be very surprised if you have ever uttered the words, "Not perfect, but it's good enough."

[Steve Manning]

Drawings are looking good Jon, so is the shed. If we end up staying where we are (job dependent) I want to replace our present shed with something similar to what you have there. It would let me move some stuff out of the garage and leave my tools in a permanent setup.

What I'd love to have is what my brother and step father have just put up ........




A nice little 40' X 60' pole barn ....... one could do a lot of speaker building in that!

[JonMarsh]

That's what you need to start manufacturing! :T

[Hank]

Nice Jon - you're going to appreciate having your table saw in there with elbow room - and your DeWalt miter saw, of course. At least you resisted the upgrade demon whispering in your ear: "Bamboo would look SO good as exterior laminate". ;-)

[JonMarsh]

Nice Jon - you're going to appreciate having your table saw in there with elbow room - and your DeWalt miter saw, of course. At least you resisted the upgrade demon whispering in your ear: "Bamboo would look SO good as exterior laminate". ;-)

You should have heard the discussion we had about whether or not to put in Bamboo flooring from Cali Bamboo.... :W

http://www.calibamboo.com/bamboo-flooring.html

This is where the LBL ply for the Isiris build came from....



GF was insisting on oak flooring like in the house, and of course, that was a no-go for me... :nonod:

[JonMarsh]

Oh, and a nice box came via UPS from MLCS with some new router bits, including some triple flute round over bits (I love these guys, they almost make me feel like a woodworker!)

Just one more 1/2" sprial up cut bit and a 10" 80T laminate blade on the way, and with luck I'll make some sawdust on Sunday.

[Steve Manning]

Gotta love MLCS :T

[Steve Manning]

Jon, was the shed stick built on site or did they have some of it prefabbed off site?

[JonMarsh]

The wall assemblies and roof pieces were assembled off site. The steel base was attached to the floor piece, if I remember correctly. The doors were mounted and windows put on on the site, as were the roofing shingles.

[Face]

Oh, and a nice box came via UPS from MLCS with some new router bits, including some triple flute round over bits (I love these guys, they almost make me feel like a woodworker!)

Just one more 1/2" sprial up cut bit and a 10" 80T laminate blade on the way, and with luck I'll make some sawdust on Sunday.

My experience with MLCS bits has been hit or miss. If you're looking for something better next time around, check out Amana.

[BobEllis]

MLCS' "Katana" bits seem to come quite a bit sharper and stay sharp longer than their standard bits. If available in the size needed that's what I buy. Well worth the price differential to me.

Dynamic Saw carries the Amana line at a discount but I haven't tried those yet. Their bit sharpening service is inexpensive.

[---k---]

I got my ToughShed installed 2 months ago. Going to be using it for the same purpose, since our new garage doesn't have room for tools + cars. And come winter the cars will be more important.

I just used some left over white primer on the floor. I'm feeling like an under achiever.

[---k---]

My experience with MLCS bits has been hit or miss. If you're looking for something better next time around, check out Amana.

I haven't had an issue with my MCLS 30 piece set or the big 1-1/4" round over. But the up cut bit just didn't seem to cut as smoothly as the Bosch I got from Lowes. I was not impressed with it. I've heard good things about Amana. I have a Whiteside chamfer that works well.

[Face]

I have a Whiteside chamfer that works well.

Whiteside is another excellent brand.

[JonMarsh]

Well, these do happen to mostly be Katana bits from MLCS. I've had decent results from other bits from them.

When there was a local Woodcraft, I used to buy Whiteside there. I've got some Bosch bits, too, some picked up online, some from Lowe's.

Now, on a slightly different topic, I came across mention of an interesting CD during a DAC product review, interesting possibly to some of those who are a bit, ahem, shall we say, mature? Like me?



50 Years Atlantic Records- the Gold Anniversary Collection.

It's both interesting and annoying, because it shows that in 1998, they could do a really good job of mastering a lot of stuff that had been around for while, but I guess they just didn't care in the original releases. Now, I just got this in today, and ripped the two disk CD set to flac, and just listening to some of the cuts on my AudioEngine bamboo A5 speakers on the workstation desk (bamboo, of course) it's obvious that for a lot of these specific cuts, ranging from "Sitting on the Dock of the Bay", to "Round About", "Sweet Judy Blue Eyes" and "Silent all these Years", these may be the best mastered versions of those songs available on CD.

So if a classic pop compendium with a first class mastering job of material like this sounds interesting to you, you can still find this around from online vendors at fairly inexpensive prices.

Recommended. May use some of this as demo stuff for Burning Amp (you know, play some "real music", not audiophile stuff? Would kind of be cheating, but hey, I've thought at time in some endeavors if you're not cheating a bit, you're not trying hard enough. Might even bring and turn-on some of those weird electric field devices from Japan we talked about a few months back... :W )

[BobEllis]

Thanks, Jon. Lots of those songs bring back memories and surprisingly most were not yet in my collection. Looking forward to listening to that next week.

Keep those good recordings recommendations coming.

[JonMarsh]

Great news today! My built to order maple stools shipped yesterday, and should be here in time for the Burning Amp festival, to function as speaker stands for the Isiris Model One! Originally was quoted up to 30 days lead time, which wasn't going to work, of course....

Now I just have to figure out how to find time to build them...

[dar47]

Recommended. May use some of this as demo stuff for Burning Amp (you know, play some "real music", not audiophile stuff? Would kind of be cheating, but hey, I've thought at time in some endeavors if you're not cheating a bit, you're not trying hard enough. Might even bring and turn-on some of those weird electric field devices from Japan we talked about a few months back... :W )

I pick up that Shelby Lunne Hi Res file and it's really quite nice on the Ardents. Who ever mastered that has her voice hanging in the air forever on "The look of Love". If you are taking the Ardents, nice track to show them off would be "Willie & Laura Mae Jones", lots going on and still the same hanging voice. it should be fun, I wish we had something like that close to go to.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I haven't been to one of the Northern CA DIY meets in several years- not since when I took the Irsiris prototypes up there. I wanted to take the Ardents at one point, but that one was scheduled in the spring, and with the work in Cupertino, no way I could get free, or finish them in time.

I just finished the epoxy paint coat 2 for the ToughShed, so now I get to do a little fun stuff before going back to simulation development for the FAE training- test the new crossover resistor values!

I've got a new "Really Useful Box" bin full of all my favorite old and new router bits, and a new 1/2" spiral uncut bin and laminate blade that should be here today, so tomorrow AM will hopefully be some wood cutting.

And I've got a 64GB Sandisk Ultra memory stick filled up with stuff for demo (including the Shelby Lynne, and the 50years of Atlantic Records, and all the Beatle Albums from 24Bit Flac, Daria, and my Music of Cuba album that I like; and another portable HD setup with a full backup of the M52 RAID drive, all getting ready for Burning Amp.

I'm still not sure what electronics I'll take, if I can get the AURALiC and AIRES sorted out and playing nice, I'll go with them- there's a new Airport Express router on the way just to handle tying whatever streamer I get together with an iPad as a remote control. We'll see- the simplest setup may win, and that could be the M50, if I can get local hotspot mode working and get it to talk directly to an iPad. Finding time to sort this out is a problem. There's so much that needs to happen in the next three weeks...

[JonMarsh]

Step by step things are getting done today- sent off some more enclosure/LF alignment into to Steve today, he's got an itch to play with Sketch up and some concepts we've been talking about for the larger version.

But meanwhile things are moving forward here- that floor epoxy coat got updated early this AM, with the tan version, and it's looking pretty nice, GF is happy, so we're all happy here...

And the crossovers have been tweaked (oooh, changed two resistors total, really had to work my fingers to the nubbins for that one, but hauling all the gear out to test them in the backside of the family room, THAT took time! Here's hoping I can talk here into letting me leave them set up for a few days and try to get some good electronics hooked up. But you know, for just running on the test rig with TC Electronic interface (OK, it's a Firewire DAC with the JET PLL chip set, so it's not ALL that bad...).

SO, bottom line, this has been the easiest tweaking on a three way crossover to get it pretty much where I want that I've ever done....



Still have the floor bounce issue with the test distance, but the overall balance is dialed in well... they're a little "present" on axis (black), but really sound nice at 30 degrees off axis. Vocals are quite nice... actually everything is nice, and the rattle stuff in the room nicely at the start of the sine test chirp in the low end, too. Coherent, nice timbral rendering. Not quite as refined in the top end as an Ardent, or quite as bone clear in the midrange, but holds up nicely, very coherent sounding.

Distortion plot is probably going to be a bit odd looking to most, but there are good reasons for why it looks the way it does, and in fact, turned out better than I was really expecting.



Notice how the midrange 3rd harmonic has something of a ski jump profile, pretty flat from 500Hz to 1 kHz, then starting to curve up sharply- that's the HD3 resonance amplification due to the midrange cone breakup mode, but it's being suppressed as hard as possible with the quasi LR6 crossover electrical transfer function, so I think it may be in control enough. Also, the tweeter really doesn't like going low, so the steeper electrical filter seem to be working well helping with that.

Note state of the art, but pretty fair. And then there's the wide, wide listening arc these have, and very coherent reproduction of instruments with a lot of midrange and treble energy in addition to the fundamentals.

Probably we can go with this for the first build.