SMJ Audio Wavecor Ardent Build

[JonMarsh]

It's so cool to see another build of these going together 9 years after the first ones...

[technodanvan]

Fancy looking wires going into these! Looks like they're coming along very nicely.

[Steve Manning]

Fancy looking wires going into these! Looks like they're coming along very nicely.

Another customer request on the cables ..... someone, as in Jon, set a bad example and did the same thing and here we are! 😁

[Steve Manning]

While I'm here ..... The first cabinet is out of the clamps and the the second is curing overnight.

[PANDINUS]

Steve, I am watching the construction with interest. I have two questions about used parts. Have you tried these new Mundorf resistors on the coolers sonically? Have you compared them against the M resist Supreme 20W? And I see a thick braided cable, is it an original Kimber TC 8/12 or a china copy? If it is a Chinese production, have you tried to compare with the original? Thanks.

[Steve Manning]

Steve, I am watching the construction with interest. I have two questions about used parts. Have you tried these new Mundorf resistors on the coolers sonically? Have you compared them against the M resist Supreme 20W? And I see a thick braided cable, is it an original Kimber TC 8/12 or a china copy? If it is a Chinese production, have you tried to compare with the original? Thanks.

Hi Pandinus ..... Neither Jon or myself have heard the Mudorf Ultra resistors. The original intent was to use the Dayton Audio DPR resistors. We have found they are a better bang for the buck over the Mundorf 20W resistors. Robert requested using the Mundorf Ultra's for more of a visual impact since the crossovers will be displayed. We are not expecting that it will offer up much in terms of a sonic improvement, but will not really have a way of determining that.

As for the Kimber style cable, it's not the real deal. I got this at GR Research which I suspect may come from China, though I'm not sure. GR Research has at least one video covering the performance of the cable and I'm sure Jon can chime in as to the specific specs and how it compares to the Kimber. For the most part I believe the braiding geometry is what gives Kimber Kables the performance it has.

[JonMarsh]

I've been using Kimber 8TC and 12TC in speaker projects for a long time- 2 decades. Initially I chose to do this because of the performance as full range speaker cables- not quite matching Cardas, but not priced like the better Cardas products. Like Cardas, they provide specification characteristics which can be verified by measurement with the right equipment (a mid grade LCR meter capable of variable frequency operation, and analysis of ESR and damping and separation of reactive and resistive loss components of impedance.)

For Kimber 12TC, the key specs are:

(Rdc) dc loop resistance: 0.005 Ohm / meter

(Cp) parallel capacitance: 494 pF / meter

(Ls) series inductance: 0.09 uH / meter

If I loaned you my LCR meter, and gave you a 1 meter sample of Kimber 12TC and the GR Research "Clone", and asked you to figure out which was which, you would not be able to do so... not by appearance, and not by measurement. I have both on hand, and I keep them bagged and separated, just to avoid any confusion. But, bottom line, you would probably swear they came out of the same factory....

There is more obvious difference between a B-G Neo3 and a GRS PT2522, because though the concept and tooling rights have passed to GRS, I can easily tell one from the other, and that they likely did NOT come out of the same factory.

I'm using the GR Research version for internal wiring in current projects like the Saint-Saëns and my POC CC Supreme build.

My main speaker cables are Cardas Clear Reflection, which is essentially an update on my old favorite, Golden Reference.

[PANDINUS]

Thanks for the anwers.
I also used 8 TC speaker cables for a long time and then the newer 12 TC. I was satisfied with the sound. Then I noticed identical looking products in Chinese stores. They were at a ridiculously low price so I bought a few meters out of curiosity. The insulation is Teflon, the cables have the same or very similar structure as the original (stronger and weaker wires in the cable). I believe that the measurable values will also be the same. But the sound is important to me, and it wasn't as good as the Kimber cables. The only thing suggested as an explanation is the use of poorer quality copper. Poorer cleanliness, grain size and surface smoothness. Some time ago I tested the NEOTECH NEMOS 3080 and NEMOS 5080 cables. The 3080 is from UP-OCC and the 5080 from OFC. This is their only difference, all other details are identical. An extraordinary and unique possibility to compare the quality of the conductor metal itself. The difference in sound was big in favor of the UP-OCC material.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for sharing your experience! How would you describe the difference in the sound? Can you identify them consistently in a blind listening test?

I take it from what you say exactly you did not have a chance to check the measurable values.

[PANDINUS]

In general, sound is difficult to accurately describe, because each person imagines something different in their mind. Besides, I don't speak English. OFC copper - sound was generally softer, hazzy. UP OCC more accurate definition of bass tones, overall greater emphasis, focus, strength. I vaguely remember that it was similar when I once compared the Kimber 8TC and 8VS. Same copper but Teflon/polypropylene insulation.
I have done a lot of testing in my life and it has been verified many times that what I perceive coincides with what my acquaintances hear, whom I let listen to the same test samples, but unlike me, they do not know what cable is playing when listening. I also did that I hid the cables in the covers and tubes to make them look exactly the same, I just labeled them with letters. This is how I lent them to friends at home so that they could listen to what they heard at home and write me the results. So blind tests were done many times. In 2005, I was a participant in a blind test in which the capacitor in the crossover in front of the tweeter was changed. There was regular MKP, Mundorf MCap 630V, Supreme and Supreme silver oil. Here I was just listening and didn't know what was involved. An acquaintance did the exchange. I was surprised how the condenser in front of the tweeter with a crossover frequency of around 2.5k Hz changed the sound of the double bass, how much body-wood was added. My favorite sonically was Silver oil back then. I have also tested the sound of resistors, the M resist Supreme 20W is clearly better (smoother and airier) than the classic green Mundorf 10W. And two Mundorf 5W in parallel are also better than 10W, they are closer to the sound of M resist Supreme 20W.

[JonMarsh]

Your English is fine, better than my German, for example!

Do you use 12TC as a full range speaker cable? I should probably mention that I have only used it as a midrange connection cable internally in select speaker builds, like the Isiris. Many years earlier I established the quality of the Kimber product in my mind when actually testing 8TC as a full range speaker cable for a more modest system.

In 2005, I was a participant in a blind test in which the capacitor in the crossover in front of the tweeter was changed. There was regular MKP, Mundorf MCap 630V, Supreme and Supreme silver oil. Here I was just listening and didn't know what was involved. An acquaintance did the exchange. I was surprised how the condenser in front of the tweeter with a crossover frequency of around 2.5k Hz changed the sound of the double bass, how much body-wood was added. My favorite sonically was Silver oil back then.

This is not surprising to me, there is a significant impact also for midrange crossovers, but the price becomes a very serious issue! I am somewhat partial to the higher end parts in the Jantzen and Clarity cap lineups, especially for midrange. The challenge is finding a reasonable balance of cost/performance characteristics, especially for fellow DIY builders. This is less than simple... otherwise, I might mainly use Jantzen Alumen Z-Caps and Amber Z-Caps, for example!

[PANDINUS]

Yes, years ago I used Kimber 12TC as the main speaker cables to the speakers. For me, it is perfectly fine to use Mundorf Mcap EVO oil for the middle speaker and Jantzen Alumen for the tweeter, this is a very good price-quality ratio.

[Steve Manning]

Work has started on machining the baffles for the cabinets.

This one is waiting in the wings for trimming to size.



This is the second baffle after being flush trimmed to width.












Next step for this one will be the table saw for trimming to length.

[JonMarsh]

Looking very good, Steve!

[theSven]

That baffle is crazy thick! Love the bamboo look too.

[Steve Manning]

Progress continues .....

First baffle glued up and ready for facet cutting.




Second one waiting on the clamps to come off.



Also been working on trimming out the crossover compartments on the two cabinets.







Also trying to slip in some slab glue up for Sven's CC.

[Steve Manning]

Well time has arrived for cutting the baffle facets. Always good for a little trepidation in not screwing things up with all the work that has already gone into the baffles.

I had to put together a fixture for the table saw first. That took a few iterations to get something stable enough to make the cuts.

Unfortunately a 10" table saw just doesn't have enough cut capacity to cut all the way through the baffle. Ah, for a big European sliding saw!





After some hand tool clean up and I'm half way through the cuts at this point. Should be able to finish up tomorrow after flipping the center taper jig.

[theSven]

That is some great table saw work and the baffles look fantastic!

[Steve Manning]

Well despite the lack of posts and life's never ending supply of tasks, progress continues.

Put together the bases for the cabinets as well as the clear covers for the crossover compartment.

Baffles at this point are about ready to be attached to the bodies. I had some major tear out issues in a few locations that took a bit of work to clean up, as well as some minor voids to deal with.



Also got the the threaded inserts installed for the drivers and cabinet feet.




Unlike crazy man, bimmerguy, I did not make my own inserts!!!

Also got some finish ordered and picked up.



And yes, that is the color of the main cabinet.

In order to be able to spray I had yet to address a spray area like I had in my old shop ..... that has now been taken care of.




I got lucky and what I had used for the old shop, was just enough for here as well. The biggest chore was figuring out how to hang the track. The old place had ceiling trusses every 2 ft and they ran front to back in the garage. Here they go side to side and are spaced every 4 ft .... non of them were in a location that was useful.

What I do like is with this shop being bigger I can leave all of my tool in place, close the curtain and get to work.

[Evil Twin]

What I do like is with this shop being bigger I can leave all of my tool in place, close the curtain and get to work.

This is a matter of inestimable value...

[technodanvan]

I should have asked for threaded inserts. *sigh*

Next time!

[JonMarsh]

I should have asked for threaded inserts. *sigh*

Next time!

And when you do, be sure to ask for the RAMPA inserts!


🤪

[theSven]

I should have asked for threaded inserts. *sigh*

Next time!

I learned that on my second build... I tried it once to say I did it, but I remember that Steve Manning does it better!

[Steve Manning]

Well their finally starting to look like speakers!

Cabinets have been cleaned up and rough sanded so the baffles could be attached.




This allowed me get the bases aligned and some 1/4-20 inserts installed to attach them. Going with my favorite ViaBlue feet.





Of course we needed more inserts in the crossover compartment to attach the rear covers. Once I get the crossover boards cut out they will need some inserts inside the compartment to mount those.

[JonMarsh]

Ummm, Steve, how should I break this to you, but, I think we have a vertical alignment issue in the making here....





The woofers need to be at the bottom!!

[technodanvan]

Ummm, Steve, how should I break this to you, but, I think we have a vertical alignment issue in the making here....

I think that depends on the primary listening position, perhaps they are inverted as well!

[JonMarsh]

I see, I see, I didn't think of that! Like, hanging from a trapeze?

[technodanvan]

Exactly!

[Steve Manning]

Despite not posting in a while things are still moving along.

The "fun" part of the project has begun ..... finishing!

Things have been sanded to 220 grit and had to build a few items to help out with the spraying process.

Spray curtains are in place.



I put together a couple of stands with some heavy duty lazy Susan's so the cabinets can be turned without me having to walk around in circles.




Cabinets have been taped up and ready for the baffles to get a coat of clear first.




Bases will also be getting clear .... those will more than likely get sprayed first.

[JonMarsh]

As you know, I'm quite jealous of the space you have to setup like this... but then you've made quite an investment!

[Steve Manning]

Working around cold temps and wind (can't have the roll up door open) I've made some progress on getting some finish sprayed.

Both cabinets are sprayed, but I've only unwrapped the first one ....














Also sprayed some primer on the grill frames.





Also made a little progress on the first crossover board.

[Evil Twin]

Black is back...

[theSven]

Black is back...

Interesting... I went with that same color choice for my last 2 SMJ builds. The paint job looks great and seeing this project near the finish line will make a wonderful holiday gift for the ears to enjoy listening to!

[JonMarsh]

Also made a little progress on the first crossover board.

Slow work takes time...

Your CF covered board can act like a ground plane, if you connect it to ground. (negative input)

[Steve Manning]

Slow work takes time...

Your CF covered board can act like a ground plane, if you connect it to ground. (negative input)

I had thought about that as an option, but decided to keep everything isolated from it.

[Browncoat]

Beautiful work here. Thanks for posting pictures.

[Chrissi]

Steve, on the t-slot bed on the gantry, are those individual boards or a continuous sheet? (we have a 6x6 gantry for plasma cutting and the parts to convert to router but will still need a bed).
Love the robust speaker cabinet design.

[Steve Manning]

Steve, on the t-slot bed on the gantry, are those individual boards or a continuous sheet? (we have a 6x6 gantry for plasma cutting and the parts to convert to router but will still need a bed).
Love the robust speaker cabinet design.

Hi Chrissi, The bed is individual pieces. I laminated 2 sheets of 1/2" thick MDF together and rabbited the edges to make the T-slots.

I used nylon bolts to secure the boards in place so I don't have to worry about destroying a bit when I resurface the table.

Once the boards were in place I drilled a grid of 3/8" holes for dowel pins to align parts.

[Chrissi]

Thanks Steve, that is well thought out. I still need to work out how to make this drop into the slat bed of the plasma cutter but you have provided useful ideas for the rest.

[Steve Manning]

The first crossover board is nearing completion.







While I'm waiting for glue to set up, I'm getting the speakers ready to move into the house. All I have to do is kidnap some unsuspecting neighbors to help with that little exercise!

[theSven]

The progress is looking fantastic! I hope you have it paved to roll these over to the house...

[Steve Manning]

The progress is looking fantastic! I hope you have it paved to roll these over to the house...

Thanks Sven. Unfortunately I don't have a smooth transition outside of the shop.




I imagine if I ever have to repave the driveway I can fix that issue, but for now I have to lay down some plywood to get over the rocks.

[Chrissi]

Those look incredibly solid!

[Steve Manning]

Well we can't let Jon have all the fun building crossovers ..... Finally finished with both of the crossover boards.






Also got the grill covers finished. Having them magnetic is handy for storing them out of the way!





At this point pretty much all the parts are done. I'm running through a point to point check on the crossover boards to make sure their correct and then I can start putting the pieces together.

[JonMarsh]

We need a stronger flag item than "Like"... something more "mucho grande!"

(I took Spanish in university, so theoretically I'm more permitted to use that than Deutsche... Ich bin eine Stupidisch Americana, Ich spreche Deutsche nicht!)

(AutoDefect TM makes it hard to enter words in a foreign language!)

[theSven]

Once the forum is upgraded you will have a significantly better selection of liking options for a post!

[theSven]

This will be a nice project to complete as the year wraps up. I'll keep practicing my patience waiting to see the completed build once you get these assembled. The crossovers could considered modern art in some households to display... They are colorful, and interesting to look at.

[JonMarsh]

As always, Steve has done a great job on this build. Last I heard he was going to load the drivers and give it a listen.

[Steve Manning]

Thanks gents. My wife helped me roll the cabinets into the house yesterday. I'll get some pictures as things go together.

[Steve Manning]

With the cabinets moved the process of putting all the pieces together has begun.

Getting the crossover positioned to determine wire length for termination.






Installing bases and yes we're upside down again.

[Steve Manning]

With the cabinets moved the process of putting all the pieces together has begun.

Getting the crossover positioned to determine wire length for termination.






Installing bases and yes we're upside down again.