Ceramica. A three way loudspeaker.

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  • Bukem
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 89

    Ceramica. A three way loudspeaker.

    Hello,

    I thought it would be nice to share a DIY build of mine which is in progress as we speak. I will be posting pictures here as I get along.
    Looking forward to your comments.

    URL: https://imgur.com/a/oVPRa9f

    Click image for larger version

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    Rgds,
    Richard
    Last edited by theSven; 02 May 2023, 16:26 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location
  • Dilirium
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2017
    • 20

    #2
    Looks really nice so far! Any drawing of how the speaker will look at the end?
    Last edited by Dilirium; 11 May 2018, 11:53 Friday.

    Comment

    • bvbellomo
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 251

      #3
      Interesting build. Did you pick drivers similar to Jon's Ardent by design, or by coincidence just because they are good drivers? What order crossovers are you planning?

      Comment

      • Bukem
        Member
        • Mar 2008
        • 89

        #4
        The drivers suit the design.
        As requested a pic of the completed system.

        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by theSven; 02 May 2023, 16:27 Tuesday. Reason: Update inage location

        Comment

        • Jonasz
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2004
          • 852

          #5
          Very very nice!
          Will there be a waveguide on the 6640?

          Comment

          • Bukem
            Member
            • Mar 2008
            • 89

            #6
            Thanks. I’ll be using the standard (shallow) waveguide profile as per factory design.
            See photo blog.
            Last edited by Bukem; 12 May 2018, 05:05 Saturday.

            Comment

            • Zvu
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2013
              • 434

              #7
              This would be the standmount loudspeaker as per my liking. It looks exciting and fun to build. Looking forward to your progress.

              I'm liking black mid dome very much
              Tesla; George Carlin;

              Comment

              • Bukem
                Member
                • Mar 2008
                • 89

                #8
                The C90 looks stunning indeed. Thanks.
                Forcing myself not to rush during assembly...

                Click image for larger version

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                Comment

                • bvbellomo
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 251

                  #9
                  I've been trying to rush for years and it looks like you are almost as far along

                  Comment

                  • 5th element
                    Supreme Being Moderator
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 1671

                    #10
                    Those should be quite nice and the black coned Accuton looks really rather nice. Evil Twin would most certainly approve.

                    In the CAD drawing above I cannot see a partition between the midrange and woofer cavity, I am assuming that it's there?
                    What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                    5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                    Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                    Comment

                    • Bukem
                      Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 89

                      #11
                      Originally posted by 5th element
                      In the CAD drawing above I cannot see a partition between the midrange and woofer cavity, I am assuming that it's there?
                      A thick walled tube is suspended between the frontpanel and the internal rear panel. The picture of the frontpanel has all the clues. In fact, the cad drawing is showing the tube if you look closely ;-)

                      Comment

                      • TMM
                        Junior Member
                        • Jul 2015
                        • 29

                        #12
                        Have you considered what surrounding the drivers in so much metal will do to their motors' magnetic fields? Shorted turns and all that. Might knock a dB or two off the mid/tweeters sensitivity.

                        Comment

                        • Steve Manning
                          Moderator
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 1879

                          #13
                          Awesome build ...... can we assume your a machinist by trade?
                          Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                          WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                          Comment

                          • Steve Manning
                            Moderator
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 1879

                            #14
                            Originally posted by TMM
                            Have you considered what surrounding the drivers in so much metal will do to their motors' magnetic fields? Shorted turns and all that. Might knock a dB or two off the mid/tweeters sensitivity.
                            Since he's using Al, it should be a non issue for magnetic fields .... steel would be a whole other issue.
                            Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                            WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                            Comment

                            • Bukem
                              Member
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 89

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Steve Manning
                              can we assume your a machinist by trade?
                              Ha ha, nope. Au contraire.

                              Comment

                              • 5th element
                                Supreme Being Moderator
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 1671

                                #16
                                Ah yes I can see it now
                                What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                Comment

                                • Zvu
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Oct 2013
                                  • 434

                                  #17
                                  I have a few questions.

                                  Where will the crossover points be ?
                                  Have you planned acoustic slopes ?
                                  What DSP engine will you be using ?
                                  Are your midranges changed other than color (as Tidal factory are) or are they stock but black ?
                                  Does the woofer TS changes at higher volume being clamped fairly close to one another due to possible obstruction of vents on back plates ?
                                  Have you considered Ncore NC400 amplifiers which are (supposedly) of higher quality than UCD ?

                                  Tesla; George Carlin;

                                  Comment

                                  • Matt M
                                    Member
                                    • Jul 2014
                                    • 86

                                    #18
                                    Impressive skills, delicious drivers.

                                    Yet, I have one question too: this looks very much like a final cabinet build to me. How many prototypes did you make before deciding to go final?

                                    - Matt

                                    Comment

                                    • Bukem
                                      Member
                                      • Mar 2008
                                      • 89

                                      #19
                                      Thanks for the kind words. A lot of questions ;-)

                                      - I have build several MDF prototypes with these drivers.
                                      - The available space on the rear panel allows me to upgrade in future should I feel the need. So far the UCD400 OEM's have suited me just fine. input buffer is a LM4562. I'll post a new pic.
                                      - The colour of the drivers is a very very dark grey (black?). I know Tidal has exclusivity w.r.t. the black color. I'm happy as can be with the current color.
                                      - DSP engine is Fabfilter Pro-Q2, Dac is Motu 8A (Sabre based 8ch DAC)
                                      - Should I feel inclined other DSP options can be implemented (such as Hypex DLCP)
                                      - The Wavecors do not have pole piece vents
                                      - I have not been able to measure a change in t/s yet
                                      - I'll post some more details later on x-over slopes etc

                                      Comment

                                      • Zvu
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2013
                                        • 434

                                        #20
                                        Thanks for your response. Great stuff and looks like well thought. I'll be impatiently waiting for updates.
                                        Tesla; George Carlin;

                                        Comment

                                        • Matt M
                                          Member
                                          • Jul 2014
                                          • 86

                                          #21
                                          I have build several MDF prototypes with these drivers.
                                          I am relieved to read this. And, bottomline, impressed.

                                          I'll post some more details later on x-over slopes etc
                                          That will be interesting.

                                          How much cabinet volume for the Wavecors?

                                          Comment

                                          • Bukem
                                            Member
                                            • Mar 2008
                                            • 89

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Matt M
                                            How much cabinet volume for the Wavecors?
                                            19,4 Litres
                                            Qb=0,76
                                            F3 54Hz

                                            Linkwitz Transform to shape response
                                            Gain 5,5dB for 35Hz F3 / Qb 0,5

                                            Comment

                                            • Bukem
                                              Member
                                              • Mar 2008
                                              • 89

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Zvu
                                              Where will the crossover points be?
                                              A few more details:

                                              First null woofers 380Hz (300/90cm)
                                              First null midrange 323Hz
                                              Geometric mean 350Hz

                                              Woofers Enclosure first mode 476Hz
                                              Midrange Enclosure first mode 286Hz

                                              Baffle Step woofers Bipolar designs eliminate the transition to 4pi space in the on-axis response regardless of the width
                                              Baffle Step Midrange 404Hz (285mm)

                                              C2C tweeter-midrange (2x) frequency 1886Hz (122mm)

                                              Target 0-350-2500Hz LR4

                                              Vivid Audio Giya 220Hz
                                              Kef Blade (8") 350Hz
                                              Kii Three 220Hz

                                              Comment

                                              • TMM
                                                Junior Member
                                                • Jul 2015
                                                • 29

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Steve Manning
                                                Since he's using Al, it should be a non issue for magnetic fields .... steel would be a whole other issue.
                                                Just being conductive is also a potential problem because eddy currents can be induced. That's how copper pole caps and shorting rings placed inside a driver's motor work. If there are shorted turns in the wrong places the drivers performance can become worse. Hopefully being outside of the motor the effect is reasonably benign but the only way to know is to test it.

                                                Comment

                                                • Zvu
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Oct 2013
                                                  • 434

                                                  #25
                                                  As far as i know, it has an effect only in the magnetic gap and arround it. 2cm away from gap is more than enough. Otherwise best performing speakers would be with plastic baskets and cones
                                                  Tesla; George Carlin;

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Bukem
                                                    Member
                                                    • Mar 2008
                                                    • 89

                                                    #26
                                                    A few more pics posted. Spare time has been scarce unfortunately.
                                                    The outer rear panel will be held in place by no less than 6 neodym magnets.

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                                                    Comment

                                                    • Jonasz
                                                      Senior Member
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 852

                                                      #27
                                                      :T arty:

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Bear
                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                        • 1038

                                                        #28
                                                        Excellent work! Have you found that you get localization issues with the side-firing woofers being crossed so high? The rule of thumb that I have heard is to cross side-firing woofers no higher than about 200Hz (some advocate <150Hz). Also, I'd love some more details on putting the mid into a closed(?) pipe, while avoiding the resonance issues. I've contemplated something similar, but I'm still trying to play catch-up to the MLTL crowd...
                                                        Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Bukem
                                                          Member
                                                          • Mar 2008
                                                          • 89

                                                          #29
                                                          Opinions on the crossover frequency vary depending on who you ask. If needed though the C90 can be taken down lower although 323Hz is the first null at the seating position and the first mode of the tube is 286Hz so in an ideal world I'd like to stay well above these frequencies. Floor null of the woofers is at 380Hz which is why I have arrived at 350Hz which is the geometric mean of both nulls. The back wave of the tube will be damped, I have some further ideas I would like to explore.

                                                          Kef also take their 8" blades up to 350Hz.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Bukem
                                                            Member
                                                            • Mar 2008
                                                            • 89

                                                            #30
                                                            I've posted a few small updates as I am preparing all the bits for painting. I have been struggling quite bit on the paint scheme, do I go for something conservative or something bolder? The good news is that it will be the latter i.e. I will be finishing this speaker in a bold colour combination!

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                                                            This is the Porsche 911 Targa 4S Exclusive Design Edition. The silver is not quite silver but has a light gold hue.

                                                            > Porsche Etna Blue (Y31) for the speaker (gloss/uni)
                                                            > Porsche White Gold Metallic (539) for the stand (satin/metallic)



                                                            Here you see the white gold under different lighting conditions:

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                                                            Comment

                                                            • 5th element
                                                              Supreme Being Moderator
                                                              • Sep 2009
                                                              • 1671

                                                              #31
                                                              I think it will look great painted in those colours!
                                                              What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                                              5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                                              Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Bukem
                                                                Member
                                                                • Mar 2008
                                                                • 89

                                                                #32
                                                                Tks. Here's a render.

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                                                                Comment

                                                                • Zvu
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Oct 2013
                                                                  • 434

                                                                  #33
                                                                  MOTUs Flotte aus netzwerkfähigen Audio-Interfaces bestand bislang fast ausschließlich aus 19-Zoll-Geräten zu Preisen jenseits der 1.000-Euro-Marke. Mit den Neuzugängen 624 und 8A hat der US-Hersteller nun jedoch zwei mobile Interfaces ins Programm genommen, die einen günstigen Einstieg in die AVB-Welt versprechen. Ohne Abstriche in der Klangqualität und, neben Thunderbolt, sogar mit schneller USB-3.0-Schnittstelle! MOTUs Produktbezeichnungen mögen nicht...
                                                                  Tesla; George Carlin;

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Juhazi
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • May 2008
                                                                    • 239

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Nice looks and paint scheme!
                                                                    I just fail to see how midrange chamber will be made...
                                                                    My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Bukem
                                                                      Member
                                                                      • Mar 2008
                                                                      • 89

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Ah ha...

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                                                                      The tube will be suspended inbetween the front- and rearpanel, resting on two elastomeric o-rings. Just need to bevel the inside of the tube a tad so it aligns itself in the groove it will sit in.
                                                                      Last edited by theSven; 02 May 2023, 16:29 Tuesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Juhazi
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • May 2008
                                                                        • 239

                                                                        #36
                                                                        OK, remember generous stuffing, and don't use steel wool! 8)
                                                                        My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Bukem
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Mar 2008
                                                                          • 89

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Ready for paint!

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                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Juhazi
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • May 2008
                                                                            • 239

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Ah ha, that's where the Porsche paint idea came from! Synergistic benefits.
                                                                            My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, CSS125FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470Dayton, -13 AINOgradient, -18 Avalanche AS-1 dsp, -18 MR183w

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • wolf_teeth
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Feb 2011
                                                                              • 164

                                                                              #39
                                                                              I think you need a red pin stripe somewhere....

                                                                              Otherwise, very cool!
                                                                              Wolf

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Bukem
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Mar 2008
                                                                                • 89

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Juhazi
                                                                                OK, remember generous stuffing, and don't use steel wool! 8)
                                                                                Sorted.

                                                                                Twaron stuffing

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                                                                                TecnoCell wall liner

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                                                                                • Hdale85
                                                                                  Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                                  • 16075

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Wow, that's crazy nice looking! I'd love something similar for a future 2 channel setup.

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Bukem
                                                                                    Member
                                                                                    • Mar 2008
                                                                                    • 89

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Making progress...

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                                                                                    • Bukem
                                                                                      Member
                                                                                      • Mar 2008
                                                                                      • 89

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      And the matching stands in Porsche white gold metallic.

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                                                                                      • Bear
                                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                                        • Dec 2008
                                                                                        • 1038

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        I hope someone doesn't ding them in the car park!
                                                                                        Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Supernova
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Mar 2017
                                                                                          • 108

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          This build is insane.

                                                                                          Comment

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