Scan Speak 2-way floor standing loudspeaker

**TacoD** · 21 September 2014, 18:14 Sunday

The Build
All the panels where pre cut by my carpenter, the sides are 30 mm MDF and the other panels are out of 35 mm MDF. Note that all edges have a round over of 20 mm (my drawing details a more elaborate polynomial arc, but CNC time turned out to be very expensive).

My carpenter did a great job all the panels fitted without glue, only using the lamello biscuits. Some pictures of the build process:

and gluing (used normal wood glue)

Ready to be painted

As I was in a hurry, I quickly rolled some white paint on the speakers:

**TacoD** · 21 September 2014, 18:31 Sunday

I used simple plastic door stops as feet:

The inductors and capacitors are from the parts bin.

Because of the tick back panel I really had a hard time to get the connectors in. I refuse to use plastic binding post plates, thus this has to do for now

.

**TacoD** · 21 September 2014, 18:38 Sunday

End Result
Took these pictures in the current habitat, unfortunately low light and only phone camera.

I use these loudspeakers with an UCD 700 based amplifier and given the fact it is only a 2-way loudspeaker it performs very well. The low level resolution is very good and compared to a good 3-way it does not give in a lot on the mid band.

**---k---** · 21 September 2014, 21:50 Sunday

Looks great. Wish I could hear it.

**JonMarsh** · 22 September 2014, 10:26 Monday

Nice looking work, Taco! :T

How do YOU like the sound of the 6640? It's probably my all around favorite dome, when you factor in price (the diamond Jantzen's lose on that score! )

**5th element** · 22 September 2014, 14:50 Monday

That is a very low crossover point for the 6640! Although I am sure the speaker sounds significantly better because of it. The 6640 can certainly handle going that low, but it'll probably start to lose steam if pushed too loud.

This design certainly makes for a nice change in the 7" + 1" format, I would quite like to hear them too

**Jonasz** · 22 September 2014, 16:10 Monday

Very nice design Taco!

**JonMarsh** · 22 September 2014, 17:50 Monday

Originally posted by 5th element

That is a very low crossover point for the 6640! Although I am sure the speaker sounds significantly better because of it. The 6640 can certainly handle going that low, but it'll probably start to lose steam if pushed too loud.

This design certainly makes for a nice change in the 7" + 1" format, I would quite like to hear them too

well, you know, he's playing games with one of those elliptic style crossover filters... a very modified 4th order... seems like I've seen that somewhere before....

HTGuide Forum

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?3430-M8ta-Fun-or-Work-)

Of course, before this was the M8a "bookshelf" speaker (well, if you had a large, extra strong bookshelf...)

**TacoD** · 22 September 2014, 18:50 Monday

Originally posted by JonMarsh

well, you know, he's playing games with one of those elliptic style crossover filters... a very modified 4th order... seems like I've seen that somewhere before....

HTGuide Forum

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?3430-M8ta-Fun-or-Work-)

Of course, before this was the M8a "bookshelf" speaker (well, if you had a large, extra strong bookshelf...)

I learned a lot from you and others on this forum, that also let me decide to put some time in sharing as well. I am not really concerned about the low x-over myself, I used the tweeter as well with a 15 cm mid with a x-over > 2 kHz and I cannot detect much difference.

To answer your earlier question, I think this is the best tweeter money can buy in this price segment. In the past I also played around with Raal/ planars/ air motion, while these have their own merits this tweeter is bombproof. Low x-over points and very nicely behaved top-end.

I also used a lot of other Scan Speak tweeters and I always did have a soft spot for their 9800 metal dome. The Scan metal domes do not have the pronounced 'brand' sound of Scan Speak as most of their soft domes. Resolution/ timbre is very good stil I think it does not have the dynamics of a Raal/ air motion or the timbre of a good planar. Its hard to find a good 'hard' dome, the old Accuton c12/ c23 and these doen't come close to the Be, actually never understood the fuss about these -> expensive and not that great sounding in my ears

. Thus the Be is highly recommended.

For an all out loudspeaker I probably would still use a Raal. For a more compact design this is a nice compromise.

**JonMarsh** · 22 September 2014, 20:42 Monday

Originally posted by TacoD

I learned a lot from you and others on this forum, that also let me decide to put some time in sharing as well. I am not really concerned about the low x-over myself, I used the tweeter as well with a 15 cm mid with a x-over > 2 kHz and I cannot detect much difference.

To answer your earlier question, I think this is the best tweeter money can buy in this price segment. In the past I also played around with Raal/ planars/ air motion, while these have their own merits this tweeter is bombproof. Low x-over points and very nicely behaved top-end.

I also used a lot of other Scan Speak tweeters and I always did have a soft spot for their 9800 metal dome. The Scan metal domes do not have the pronounced 'brand' sound of Scan Speak as most of their soft domes. Resolution/ timbre is very good stil I think it does not have the dynamics of a Raal/ air motion or the timbre of a good planar. Its hard to find a good 'hard' dome, the old Accuton c12/ c23 and these doen't come close to the Be, actually never understood the fuss about these -> expensive and not that great sounding in my ears

. Thus the Be is highly recommended.

For an all out loudspeaker I probably would still use a Raal. For a more compact design this is a nice compromise.

Very interesting comments! They echo very much my own experiences and perceptions, including the 9800 metal dome! I think the 6640 is a prince among the Scanspeak royalty.

For an all out loudspeaker I probably would still use a Raal.

I also agree with this statement, and that's what I'm working on next...

**TacoD** · 24 September 2014, 07:33 Wednesday

Another all out project? Sounds like you cannot keep sitting still

**JonMarsh** · 24 September 2014, 09:57 Wednesday

Originally posted by TacoD

Another all out project? Sounds like you cannot keep sitting still

There's a saying about hiking, I picked up from a Sierra club event leader in Europe a couple of years ago: "If you want to keep hiking, you've got to keep hiking".

Sometimes I find I have an urge to do a certain kind of system, in a certain format perhaps, but I know my knowledge base or the available materials means the time isn't right, and that I must wait, in order to avoid some of the mistakes that others have made in pursuit of the same concept.

This is one of those times, and something that I've been thinking about doing for a long time, is possibly really ready for prime time at last. Plus, the GF will likely like the format better than some of the other things I've done, though she does really like Rob and Ginette. (Wavecor Ardents). Of course, whether this will really work the way I want remains to be seen... but I think it's promising. Fairly high, but I believe realistic performance targets. (i.e., 115 dB+ output capability, relatively small footprint, and sensitivity in the 95 dB/watt range. Break out your low power designs, if you like... :W

**TacoD** · 24 September 2014, 19:04 Wednesday

I bought a set of Raal tweeters (first version with normal transformer) to build a system with a high sensitivity. Unfortunately creating a 93dB plus system is hard if you want to have in a compact format and enough bass output. If space is no concern I would do a big 4 way (like the big verity audio's with a 15" bass)

**JonMarsh** · 25 September 2014, 12:35 Thursday

Unfortunately creating a 93dB plus system is hard if you want to have in a compact format and enough bass output.

That's so true! But... it might be time for me to go back and do a line array. Finally. What I'm working on in the concept stage is a dual cabinet system, an LF array with a floor footprint of about 15"x16", and a midwoofer/tweeter array with a foot print of about 11" wide and probably 16" deep also.

Midwoofer candidate, pending tests, is the Dayton Esoteric 5.5".

If we wire 12 of the ES140ti into 3 groups of four drivers in series, we wind up with a net impedance load of 10.6 ohms and a sensitivity of 94 dB. Another possible configuration is four groups of three drivers in series with a net impedance of 6 ohms and a net sensitivity of 96.54 dB. Hmmm, pretty sweet. Maybe too much. Maybe just right, though.

For the tweeters, I have my eye on the big RAAL, six on each side, with the amorphous core transformers (word from several people I trust who have used both say the amorphous core is the way to go). With the tweeters in two parallel groups of three in series, it should end up at 12 ohms with a sensitivity of 101 dB. Hmmm, got any small tube amps lying around? ;-) Won’t need much power for this. Maybe just an nCore running in the first 25 watts… I can't think of anything that is actually cleaner and quieter than the NCOE in that power range...

LF, I'm figuring another line array, some kind of 10" woofer, with or without PR. Planned footprint is based on what you can do with the Dayton knockdown cabinets, which are 15.25" x 15.25"; I may just stack up/glue together three each, to make two stackable column modules. Three of the L26RO4Y drivers in series gives a SPL of 90.2 dB for one watt, or 89.2 dB for 2.83VRMS; parallel two stacked and add on 6 dB, for roughly 96 dB. Six drivers total per side.

If we want something even smaller for the LF array, could go with the SW223BD02, like in the Wavecor Ardents, but they are pricey. And that would drop us back to about 92 dB for six on a side. Still, that's pretty livable. And a very clean driver. The matching PR is pretty much unobtanium, though; however there's no reason one couldn't use the SS or Seas PR with it. Or just go sealed without it. that would minimize the size.

For truly brute force LF output, the Dayton UMAX 10-22 driver could be considered; perhaps just sealed; then we're looking at 88dB/87db for 1w/2.83VRMS, and +6 for another 3 series in parallel, giving about 93-94 dB sensitivity for a fairly small footprint LF line array, with excellent throw and output capability (110 dB/side at 30 Hz sealed; 116dB side for a PR setup at full song. Anechoic.

I think that finally comes in the realm of if some's good, more is better, and too much is just enough. I expect bi-amping between the LF array, and midwoofer/tweeter cabinet; passive crossover up top, with some pricey caps. :W I need to test all the individual pieces before making design decisions.

Somewhere between $1600 and $4,000 for the LF array depending on driver and PR/no PR, $2880 for the midwoofer arrays, and, brace yourself, $8400 for the ribbons. Plus, we better kick in $750 to $1K for crossover parts, and I suppose we'll spend a few hundred on cabinet materials, given my love of LBL. And a dozen of those Dayton modular knockdown woofer boxes, at about $120 each. Hmm, comes to $1440 for just a big pile of MDF! But a lot of labor saving...

I've been saving up for a while for doing one final monster system around or before the time I retire. If you total this up, comes to under $18K. (not including paying for my time!) That's a serious pile of loot, but what can you buy for 18K? A used set of Avalon Indras? (which I suspect the Wavecor Ardents will wipe up the floor with). A used set of Magico S3's? (another dual 7" woofer three way, a very NICE one, but still....)

And the beautiful thing from my GF's point of view is that these will be sitting back in the front corners of the family room, taking up no floor space out in the center the way the Isiris does, and they'll have that 3 dB drop in SPL for doubling the distance instead of 6 dB, so the sound back in the dining room will be nearly identical to that in the family room, because these will be floor to ceiling with full reflected LF images.

That's the theory, anyway. They should be nearly invisible when not turned on and playing.

Many a slip twixt the cup and the lip, and all....

My apologies for the partial thread hijack, but just felt like I needed to respond to your comment.

**JonMarsh** · 25 September 2014, 13:09 Thursday

Hmmm, hot off the press, Solen has a dozen of the PR223BD01 PR's in stock.... gonna have to do something about that- and run some more calculations. Smaller is better, in this case...

**Jonasz** · 25 September 2014, 17:39 Thursday

Interesting project Jon!
So will these be placed in room corners? I have a pair just like that, they're big yet take up next to no floor space at all! :P

Maybe the new, not yet released, Satori 5" will be an alternative to the Daytons? Hopefully they will measure as good as the current model.

**JonMarsh** · 25 September 2014, 17:54 Thursday

Originally posted by Jonasz

Interesting project Jon!
So will these be placed in room corners? I have a pair just like that, they're big yet take up next to no floor space at all! :P

Yeah, you've got the idea there- we're talking the twin towers, LF and Mid/treble. in each corner, and minimal footprint designs. May even be reasonable to do them with the Wavecor SW223BD01 and their PR (which I just found out today I was confusing the PR223BD02 with the PR223BD01, the latter being in stock at Solen), which would be a 1/3 reduction in needed enclosure volume, but need a little more amplifier power- but still sort of reasonable- if your idea of reasonable is a pair of Aragon Paladium mono blocks. But I've got them, and nothing else to do with them, so...

And what is the new Satori supposed to be like? Is that a successor to the MW16P-B? I've got a pair of the ES140ti, just lacking time to setup and measure them for a couple of weeks or so...

**TacoD** · 25 September 2014, 20:06 Thursday

Impressive project plans Jon

. I was not aware that Dayton was doing a more Scanspeak like 5.5" (titanium former, neo motor). Somehow I was thinking of the following if I read your description

Image not available

You can always sell your other projects (somehow I never do that, so I keep piling up parts).

**JonMarsh** · 25 September 2014, 21:07 Thursday

Originally posted by TacoD

You can always sell your other projects (somehow I never do that, so I keep piling up parts).

Hmm, I don't either, though one may be given away as a wedding present to daughter. Others have been given away, like the NatalieP, and the Modula NeoD CC, to relatives. On the other hand, I rather like the wavecor Ardent, so I don't know... maybe they'll go in my man cave!

Yeah, this new thing I have in mind will be a bit like that picture, but a narrower Midwoofer/tweete module. I hope it won't be more than about 10", 11 at the outside. What I'd like to shoot for is 10" for the mid/tweeter module, and 12-14" for the woofer module, if I can get away with the Wavecor SW223's. That would be slick... and sick. :W 24" total. Not small, but still... comparatively...

**TacoD** · 26 September 2014, 08:36 Friday

Originally posted by JonMarsh

That would be slick... and sick. :W 24" total. Not small, but still... comparatively...

You can always decide to make them in wall, thus no floor space at all, or complex cabinet finishing.

**Jonasz** · 26 September 2014, 09:04 Friday

Originally posted by JonMarsh

Yeah, you've got the idea there- we're talking the twin towers, LF and Mid/treble. in each corner, and minimal footprint designs. May even be reasonable to do them with the Wavecor SW223BD01 and their PR (which I just found out today I was confusing the PR223BD02 with the PR223BD01, the latter being in stock at Solen), which would be a 1/3 reduction in needed enclosure volume, but need a little more amplifier power- but still sort of reasonable- if your idea of reasonable is a pair of Aragon Paladium mono blocks. But I've got them, and nothing else to do with them, so...

And what is the new Satori supposed to be like? Is that a successor to the MW16P-B? I've got a pair of the ES140ti, just lacking time to setup and measure them for a couple of weeks or so...

No, not a successor, more of a complement. What I know is that it's a midbass, 132mm chassie, available in 8 or 4 ohm versions with 86,5 and 89 dB sensitivity.

There's also a larger 7.5" (187mm) Satori in the pipeline.

Adding a pic of one of my corner SWMTMWS.
Sorry for the crappy looking "absorbers"...

**TacoD** · 26 September 2014, 18:37 Friday

serious project Jonasz! Looks like Scanspeak Peerless/ Raal combo

**JonMarsh** · 26 September 2014, 19:39 Friday

I bet you don't pick them up and move them around very often... rather Dunlavy-esque, but thinner!

**Jonasz** · 27 September 2014, 05:58 Saturday

Originally posted by TacoD

serious project Jonasz! Looks like Scanspeak Peerless/ Raal combo

You're absolutely right Taco, Raal 70-20, SS15W and SS26W8867. The subs are Peerless XLS12, got twelve more of those that will eventually get placed at different positions in the room.

**Jonasz** · 27 September 2014, 06:09 Saturday

Originally posted by JonMarsh

I bet you don't pick them up and move them around very often... rather Dunlavy-esque, but thinner!

No, they stay in the corners!

12dB filters at 2,2kHz and 350hz, sounds very coherent with a lot of dynamics and effortlessness (is that a word

) IMHO. It is very easy to play way too loud without realizing it until afterwards.

**Jonasz** · 27 September 2014, 06:18 Saturday

Btw Taco, sorry for hijacking your thread about these awesome looking speakers of yours! ;x(

**JonMarsh** · 27 September 2014, 10:53 Saturday

Originally posted by Jonasz

No, they stay in the corners!

12dB filters at 2,2kHz and 350hz, sounds very coherent with a lot of dynamics and effortlessness (is that a word

) IMHO. It is very easy to play way too loud without realizing it until afterwards.

Ah, now, that's be being a speaker after my own heart! :B. And yes, that is a word, and an appropriate one I'm sure! :T

**TacoD** · 27 September 2014, 11:08 Saturday

Originally posted by Jonasz

Btw Taco, sorry for hijacking your thread about these awesome looking speakers of yours! ;x(

Np, always open to nice projects with Danish woofers

**Evil Twin** · 29 September 2014, 11:52 Monday

Originally posted by Jonasz

No, not a successor, more of a complement. What I know is that it's a midbass, 132mm chassie, available in 8 or 4 ohm versions with 86,5 and 89 dB sensitivity.

There's also a larger 7.5" (187mm) Satori in the pipeline.

Adding a pic of one of my corner SWMTMWS.
Sorry for the crappy looking "absorbers"...

Indeed, this is a most appealing configuration, and I can hardly fault your color choice, either.... you have every right to be proud of this technological terror. It is truly worthy of the Dark side...

**Jonasz** · 30 September 2014, 16:32 Tuesday

Originally posted by Evil Twin

Indeed, this is a most appealing configuration, and I can hardly fault your color choice, either.... you have every right to be proud of this technological terror. It is truly worthy of the Dark side...

Dark Lord, very honoured to receive such recognition directly from the most evil authority. :P

Scan Speak 2-way floor standing loudspeaker

Scan Speak 2-way floor standing loudspeaker

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